Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack: Hotfix 29.10.10

[Rhidon]

2 hours ago, --Leyenda-PlayerOneG5 said:

@RhidonSomeone asked about why the gladiator set didn't work with exalted weapons.

It was me and they do work with exalted weapons but its bugged right now

[StrikeAgainst]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Marcus.Argonius:

I'm using different keybind just fine. Maybe it's a problem with yours particular choice ([Alt] as I understand). 

I'm using [F] though, [Alt] is unrelated to this. Yeah it's strange, some people say they have the same problem, others say it works just fine for them,

[Carmelitha]

instead of deleting my post you should go delete some bugs Mr first degree 😘.

[tataleba]

can you fix the trade bugs some players cant trade and cant see each other in dojo cetus or any relays pls fix that 

 

[ValinorAtani]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb master_of_destiny:

Let me close out, in a similar fashion to what you've done here.  Steam is the platform that offers real tracking of users, that the public has access to.  You've got 11 updates thus far with 29.10.x.  The uplift in average players for the month of March was about 4k people.  That's an update, Easter, and the announcement of both your anniversary and 30.0 being delayed into April.  It's almost like even a PC exclusive update can only spark about a 10% uptick in players.  While I appreciate your honesty, the communication coming from your team sucks and has no thought behind it.  Please don't stop update.  We need at least one more, with some of the big lingering STABILITY issues addressed.  If the rest of this month is going to be with this release as "good enough" then it's going to just be enough for people.  Your former support base on Youtube is finding it difficult to sell this...which should really tell you that things are bad.  These same supporters defended things like mod drop chance boosters, but now can't swallow a content update because it's just a mess.

If you need a spreadsheet which compares steamchart numbers by each quarter let me know (as you already noticed, there is a declining player base)

[BDT_Flames]

ESO Focus is nerf before long time  just

Recommend Smeta kavat+ Xp booster

I no see problem with Eso Focus ,just need 4 corrosive projection  2 saryn,1 volt,1 Trinity =4-6 wave 300-400k focus

Only 2 Corrosive Projection Volt/Saryn to 8 wave make 345-400k focus

But 90% from community players play with useless Wukonk Prime,Saryn Prime,Mirage Prime (use aura steel charge and  Phisique ,Energy Siphon) is 

how to make focus-300k.....Nope to 4 wave make around  40k  it is only idiots  

90%  from players play with Saryn on (Phisique,Rejuvenation)

Edited April 7, 2021 by BDT_Flames

[TomBartle]

please fix the issue in which you get stuck in game, it happened to me on deimos free roam  

[gogita]

On 2021-04-06 at 5:28 AM, FlamingCore said:

Please for future updates start testing your content before letting it out. If its in inside the team or opening a beta testing community group then so be it.

I'm sure I don't need to explain to you how bringing out any kind of product that is damaged/ incomplete would desatisfy consumers of any kind. With large games it's understandable that SOME bugs will be found. But within each update, more and more content is being brought with larger amount of bugs and they're even more problematic and it seems disrespectful to the community to act as a debugger (which could've been used at least 3 days prior).

Since the latest update launched there have been 6 hotfixes in less than a week.
During that time, a small group of testers on a small dedicated server could've easily point these out and have the majority of the content tweaked before releasing.

This post was not created to bash the devs, but is a protest to the current active system.
Either give your devs more time, create a beta testing team or hire more people if you're unmatched to the amount of code warframe has become.

This behavior since the introduction of Liches has affected the community's population drastically (Since the arrival of Liches at least it has become more noticable).
This might be a factor to look at.

 

dude been asking that for over 7 yrs and seeing it hasn't been done yet dont bother it woulds cost the cheapazzes money they dont like doing that they would rather have palyer loss that do what is need to keep players in the game

[master_of_destiny]

3 hours ago, ValinorAtani said:

If you need a spreadsheet which compares steamchart numbers by each quarter let me know (as you already noticed, there is a declining player base)

 

OK...I'll bite.  Go to Steamcharts.  Copy data.  Paste into spreadsheet.  Tweak cell value displays.  Graph.  This takes all of about 3 minutes to complete.  Assuming you then create a pivot table it's dead easy to show any one metric with respect to another.  Personally, the two graphs I'd be focused on are average and maximum player count with respect to time. 

 

That said, you should use that wonderful brain in your head.   Let's take this data, and process it to demonstrate a more complex trend.  If you are to take the peak player count, less the average, you'll find what I call the content rubber band.  Basically, this is the difference in players that is brought about by large influxes of content. 

Basically, for a healthy game you'd expect for this to either be cyclical, or slightly downward (representing that the player base was playing consistently, and not logging on at a peak and then logging off).  Instead what we get is a largely upward line, with only minor cyclical behavior (2017 to 2018).  After this cyclical period things begin to be less cyclical and more flat....indicating that (with player counts) we are seeing people logging off for good, and not even come back for the new stuff.  

Now, let's talk the period from 2018 to 2021.  The graph does show weak cycling, and when compared with player counts this seems to indicate that the content driven players are evaporating and the core players are disappearing.  Is it transfer to a different platform?  Is it player loss?  It doesn't matter.  What is relevant to this thread is that this is the era of updates being far fewer, with less quality control.  Exactly like now, you could have nothing for months and then get something like 29.10.x.  What I mean by this is an update that has been identified as "done" but riddled with bugs for what could be weeks, or months.

 

So, before anyone labels this as a digression let me close.  Railjack 3.0 is...disappointing.  It's just about as disappointing as 2.0, just in slightly different ways.  You're more than welcome to link this back to player data....but people don't need to.  It's so much simpler than that.  We players should have known when DE announced that 29.10.x was a PC exclusive.  Yeah....that means they couldn't be bothered to fix it enough before console certification....but the next update was going to be at the same time for everybody.  That meant PC was going to be a pre-beta tester source, because test servers would take money and resources to setup.  Nah....just ship it as hot garbage, and setup an outside feedback board that you are going to use your internal board to announce.  It's giraffes from the top down...and that's DE.  It's been years, but now everyone else is seeing it.  Hopefully they fix things before they commit ritual suicide by extreme stupidity...but Liches are a thing.  I can't reasonably suggest that isn't indication that they'll take rope, tie a noose, slip it around their neck, and suggest that it's our fault for leaving such a tempting piece of rope out in the open.

 

[SolarDwagon]

On 2021-04-06 at 7:20 AM, Voltage said:

Thank you for the hotfix.

Any chance we could remove the house system from Armaments? A huge issue with Armaments is the fact there are 3 different options of every weapon except 2 of those options are automatically fodder making 2/3rds of the system rather pointless. Reducing the Armaments pool would make farming them feel better (higher drop chances) and requiring 2 of each to have options to equip them on Front/Side guns wouldn't be as much of a hassle. It would also be much easier for developers to balance or tweak items if necessary.

Also, still no fix for the Codex having bugged enemies which currently do not exist:

• Axio Engineer - (Doesn't spawn on Neptune Proxima Volatile missions)
• Deimos Leaper - (Removed from the game since Update: Deimos Arcana)
• Deimos Swarm Mutalist Moa - (Doesn't spawn in the Cambion Drift)
• Deimos Swarm Mutalist Moa Eximus - (Doesn't spawn in the Cambion Drift)
• Orm Basilisk - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima missions)
• Orm Engineer - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima Volatile missions)
• Orm Harpi - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima missions)
• Orm Weaver - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima missions)
• Vorac Engineer - (Doesn't spawn on Pluto Proxima Volatile missions)

I disagree with removing house from armanents because it does give support for different types of builds, even if the rest of the system isn't so good at doing so yet.

[Nira]

On 2021-04-05 at 8:20 PM, Voltage said:

Thank you for the hotfix.

Any chance we could remove the house system from Armaments? A huge issue with Armaments is the fact there are 3 different options of every weapon except 2 of those options are automatically fodder making 2/3rds of the system rather pointless. Reducing the Armaments pool would make farming them feel better (higher drop chances) and requiring 2 of each to have options to equip them on Front/Side guns wouldn't be as much of a hassle. It would also be much easier for developers to balance or tweak items if necessary.

Also, still no fix for the Codex having bugged enemies which currently do not exist:

• Axio Engineer - (Doesn't spawn on Neptune Proxima Volatile missions)
• Deimos Leaper - (Removed from the game since Update: Deimos Arcana)
• Deimos Swarm Mutalist Moa - (Doesn't spawn in the Cambion Drift)
• Deimos Swarm Mutalist Moa Eximus - (Doesn't spawn in the Cambion Drift)
• Orm Basilisk - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima missions)
• Orm Engineer - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima Volatile missions)
• Orm Harpi - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima missions)
• Orm Weaver - (Doesn't spawn on Veil Proxima missions)
• Vorac Engineer - (Doesn't spawn on Pluto Proxima Volatile missions)

 

Brilliant suggestion. Having essentially nine variants of each turret type is excessively cluttered.

I'd noticed this about missing enemy types too.

[Kategari]

On 2021-04-06 at 5:20 AM, Voltage said:

Any chance we could remove the house system from Armaments? A huge issue with Armaments is the fact there are 3 different options of every weapon except 2 of those options are automatically fodder making 2/3rds of the system rather pointless.

First off: Remove the Housing System sounds great! And while we're at it, let's just have Railjack (and by extension WarFrame) just spoonfeed us everything. It's not like Railjack isn't baby-mode easy enough already amirite???

"2 of those options are automatically fodder" is completely false. There's 1 variant that has higher Crit stats which would be meaningless if you're not doing a Full Gunner build, so you would go for the Higher Status one. But if you're doing a Full Gunner build, you'd get value from the higher Crit One (usually - however the higher status one is probably the Zetki one which burns up faster anyway - oh wait but Gunner Rank 9 exists so omegaLUL that doesn't even matter!)
 

I'm physically cringing from having read this comment.

 

[Graavarg]

After having to destroy 4 of my beloved rivens 😭 yet again (for the n:th time), I would like to kindly remind DE that while I am looking forward to the Tempestarii-update there is only one single thing I really, really need in Warframe, and that is more riven slots.

Playing around with rivens and re-enabling all kinds of "by-gone" weapons is an important part of the Warframe "endgame experience" (i.e. when you have lots of everything and have done everything and is desperately trying to find something meaningful to do). At least for me it is. Capping the possibility to play around with riven-equipped versions of all the good, not-so-good and decidedly strange weapons in the game is effectively capping my enjoyment of Warframe. THE cap on enjoyment, since it is not only the absence of something "positive", it turns positive stuff (like getting interesting rivens) into something "negative" (having to destroy painstakingly rolled rivens and their multi-forma'ed weapon builds). Currently I dread getting another riven from the sortie and I probably have slivers enough for a year or more of weekly visits to Palladino (all basically meaningless since getting another riven means destroying existing ones). 

So pretty please, raise the riven slot cap in conjunction with the Tempestarii update. Please!!!

[Graavarg]

12 hours ago, ValinorAtani said:

If you need a spreadsheet which compares steamchart numbers by each quarter let me know (as you already noticed, there is a declining player base)

Well, isn't it easier to look at a chart (to notice the "declining playerbase")?

It's becomes a bit more interesting if you connect the Steam data to the release of content on PC and to the release of new (competing) platforms.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Graavarg

[CephalonSamara]

Guys, a bug with the newest hotfix. Can you see what is wrong?

https://imgur.com/a/1alvUSs

If you cannot, the sword and shield skin (from the dryad deluxe) is bugged, with shield skin rotated 180 degrees in such a way that the arm mounting points can be seen.

Also, the bug does not stop till there. This bug exists for ALL sword and shield class of weapon, skin or no skin.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Onyx_Iron
Found out about the bug extending to weapon models itself, not just skins. Also, this bug is noticeable ONLY ON BARUUK.

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

Well, isn't it easier to look at a chart (to notice the "declining playerbase")?

It's becomes a bit more interesting if you connect the Steam data to the release of content on PC and to the release of new (competing) platforms.

 

Whoa.  Full stop.  This is a digression, but I cannot let this lie stand.

 

Let me explain the practice of data manipulation, and how exactly a person can be "honest" with data but choose a rather unique compression scheme to agree with pre-supposed conclusions.  If you're to take the data available from Steam Chart, and graph it as a month by month value, you'll see that there is not a "constant upward trend."  In fact, to generate the above graph you'll need to take the data for quarters, and what looks like average the three values, and then graph.  This is what we call lying by omission, because it fits a narrative.  Remember averaging X, Y, and Z is not showing their three unique values.  It's taking a lot of noise out. 

 

 

I applaud the fact that you did the barest minimum of work, and it's fun to see someone who is willing to do so much with a flawed core conceit.  Graph, average, hope that nobody calls you out on the obvious shenanigans with numbers.  It's like graphing a 10% difference between two values, and starting your graph at 90%.  It LOOKS like item two is double item one, but you're showing 90-110%.....so it's actually only a 10% difference.  SHAME.

 

 

Do you want to know why I'm so willing to call shenanigans?  Graph it out month by month, and only show 2017 to 2021.  That's 39 data points for each series....just barely enough to establish a trend if one exists.  You'll note the peak is 154,246 peak players....in August of 2020.  How high is your graph?  120,000 is all the higher it goes.  Curious.  If I then graph the thing by quarters, and then divide the values I get by 3 to compensate for being three months, I get what you've shown.  So....what is it that you're actually graphing, and how does it fit into a discussion about quality and updates like 29.10.x?

Well, if you are willing to average the peak player or average player count over three months you'll see that there's roughly an upward trend (barring the bit you cut off indicating that this is blatantly not the case....but that doesn't fit the narrative).  Fine.  What does this mean?  Well, let's discuss with a pool of 90 people to make the numbers easy to process.  There's an update month 2 of the quarter, where peak player count reaches 60 of the 90 potential players.  For the following and prior months you get 30 of the 90 players accounted for.  That's 120 players to count, but averaged for the quarter the value is in fact 40.  What month does this represent accurately?  Where do you account for the dramatic spike of doubling player count?  Ahhh....the answer is that you don't.  You don't because then you'd have to accurately account for a rubber banding of player counts directly related to content drops.

Why even discuss this by quarters then?  Well....DE generally squirts out a release in a quarter to meet financials....which are often reviewed on a quarterly basis.  You can literally hide the bodies in plain sight by whacking the high value peaks off, and using them to fill in the gaps from the other two months without content.  It's technically accurate....but in reality it's a very difficult road to walk because players burn out and you have to have one content month every quarter or the illusion is shattered.  Case in point, and why this is topic relevant, Railjack Refit is the first quarter content patch....released to PC in desperation to give that slightest of player count bumps so the averaged player counts don't visibly tank.

 

Long story short, and thread relevance defined, 29.10.x was an update released stillborn.  It was meant to bolster quarter 1 of 2021 player values, and could be released in such a sorry state because controls on the PC platform are much less strict than those on the consoles.  It's funny that you'd obscure data and transform it without actually denoting it, but I'm not surprised given that it fits a narrative that isn't so depressing.  That said, I don't like to cover a turd in sparkles and gold leaf, and call it a piece of art.  Remove the one month of 8/2020 and the player counts are on a pretty consistent decline, once you stop normalizing quarters.  I'm not an executive wanting to be shown success from a distorted perspective.  I'm a player struggling with things like 29.10.x....and finding that match making is difficult for new content after a couple of weeks because it's never a decent amount, and always locked behind trash RNG.  

 

[theBRICKMASTR]

There seems to be a bug where the new railjack weapon types all (or almost all) only scrap for 25 endo, whereas the old railjack weapons scrap for 225 endo.  with the wreckage capacity as low as it is, i have already had to scrap some bad new weapons, but i expected this to be noticed and fixed quickly.  10 hotfixes in, and i am starting to wonder if no one has noticed and told you guys, so here you go!  now you know, so, plz fix, as the lost endo potential does add up after a while.

Thanks!

[White_Matter]

On 2021-04-06 at 1:27 AM, FSK41 said:

go to your dojo, select invite only, go into mission 100% guaranteed Host 

Can I set it to public afterwards ? 

[Petroklos]

On 2021-04-05 at 10:27 PM, Celestus_Prime said:

I'm so glad you finally fixed the turbine door in grineer railjack!!!!

Oh wait...

You didn't...

On 2021-04-05 at 10:34 PM, -Augustus- said:

And of course mission-ending bugs with the Grineer RJ nodes (e.g., turbine doors) don't qualify as emergencies.

Really, how could they? Those same bugs have been there since RJ launched. 

Bug Bounties - Elusive Bugs!
Railjack: Point of Interest or mission doors not opening despite doors being Green & Open, preventing mission completion. We do not have a clear reproducible way to get this very frustrating bug - the Bounty is live!

So if you've got time to complain but apparently not the time to do a rudimentary search of the publicly available state of this bug, maybe you have time to give actual feedback that can help them pin-point it.

[Petroklos]

On 2021-04-06 at 9:26 AM, iPathos said:

Please respond to my previous request; do we post our issues needing fixing to your current Trello Board, or do we wait for you to eventually (potentially) make a Trello board for them and hope that you'll act on any changes we've been requesting for years?

I'm tired of this.
Give us a response so we can give you accurate info in the right place, else deprecate your bug report forums as they're ignored, and work to fix issues you have ALSO ignored for years.

Quote

You’ll be able to report feedback (or bugs) here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1253287-update-29100-bug-hunting-megathread-read-first-post/

 

Or, take a birds-eye-view look in our new Update board: https://trello.com/b/K34ACrAu/pc-update-29100-bug-feedback-tracking

WELCOME TENNO!
This is the official Warframe Bug & Feedback Tracking Board for PC Update 29.10.0: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack! This board is used by the Warframe Community Team to track and share known bugs, issues, and feedback reported by the community.

"do we post our issues needing fixing to your current Trello Board"
No, because we don't post in the Trello Board.

"do we wait for you to eventually (potentially) make a Trello board for them"
You're welcome to wait for something that they never said is coming, just don't complain when it doesn't come to be.

"act on any changes we've been requesting for years"
Again, not the point of the Trello Board. Also who is "we" and what are these "changes".

"I'm tired of this."
Sounds like you've got the wrong approach on how you engage with your entertainment.

"Give us a response"
The answer has been stated as obviously as possible since before the patch-notes even dropped and the Trello board was ever made public.

"deprecate your bug report forums as they're ignored"
If only there was paper trail of DE employees, Community Team Members and others, actually responding to the Threads, or Threads being quoted in the Patch Notes.
And if only there was the common practice of people going through the forums, relaying and categorizing the useful feedback (aka, not mine or yours post) for internal use, without also having to personally respond to each and every thread.
And if only these points applied to the Forums, Reddit, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, Discord, in-game Messages and wherever else the Devs have some presence.

"work to fix issues you have ALSO ignored for years"
Do I really need to explain that this is a non-statement? That this implies everything and nothing? You assume that everyone knows what you're talking about and that everyone is one the same page as you. Even if I do agree with what you think needs fixing and how you think it should be fixed, your post tells me absolutely nothing about it.

 

[Graavarg]

4 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

If you're to take the data available from Steam Chart, and graph it as a month by month value, you'll see that there is not a "constant upward trend."  In fact, to generate the above graph you'll need to take the data for quarters, and what looks like average the three values, and then graph.  This is what we call lying by omission, because it fits a narrative. 

🙂 It was graphed per quarter due to the suggestion of the previous poster, which you would have known if you had actually read that post.

And since you asked for it, here is the exact same data per month. With totally non-manipulated standard classical trends, calculated by the mighty Excel, the best software in this universe. Actually you asked for a lot more, but I feel merciful today.

If you want to subjectively manipulate the playerbase numbers by selecting only a part of the available data, feel free to do so. I won't.

Tip: even if you would calculate a trend only starting with 2017 (for some unfathomable reason), it would be positive. Maybe you won't get it even so, so I'll spell it out: it means the playerbase has actually been growing since then.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Graavarg
Added a tip...

[master_of_destiny]

20 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

🙂 It was graphed per quarter due to the suggestion of the previous poster, which you would have known if you had actually read that post.

And since you asked for it, here is the exact same data per month. With totally non-manipulated standard classical trends, calculated by the mighty Excel, the best software in this universe. Actually you asked for a lot more, but I feel merciful today.

If you want to subjectively manipulate the playerbase numbers by selecting only a part of the available data, feel free to do so. I won't.

Tip: even if you would calculate a trend only starting with 2017 (for some unfathomable reason), it would be positive. Maybe you won't get it even so, so I'll spell it out: it means the playerbase has actually been growing since then.

 

Let me highlight the points here....because you seem to want me to read everything....but you do not have to synthesize anything.

 

1) You graphed per quarter because of a request....without highlighting that the data was manipulated.  It's an average of the peak and average player counts.  That's not the display of data, but an analysis of quarterly trends.  You don't highlight this in your description...and that's dishonesty that would get you kicked from a discussion on statistics because you've demonstrated manipulation of data to obfuscate things without documentation.

2) Funny you should request that I read, and then you not read mine.  2017-2018 were peak population years, with relatively stable releases following the transition to two annual releases.  It was literally the "things are changing, but no established release pattern" years.  It's highlighted, because it's a point of change where the data would be expected to demonstrate different trends based upon new inputs.

3) You'll note I didn't ask for anything.  I said that if you did this, then you'd see that.  Again....copy, paste, format, and graph.

4) Also funny, you applied a linear trend to a point cloud. If you go from 2013 to 2017, 4 years of previous data where the game basically has to be growing....which would drown out 2 years of data.  It's almost like when the historic data outweighs recent data literally any trend is impossible to predict until it's established itself so well that there's nothing that you can do to react to it.

5) What is the r² value exactly?  I'm seeing 0.69, or basically nothing of value.  Funny.  Apply a polynomial.  A second degree is indicating a plateau (0.76).  3, 4, and 5 indicate a downward trend for the last two years (0.84 peak).  6 indicates a very weak uptick in the months from the Deimos release to the Railjack 3.0 release...with an r² of only 0.84.  For those that don't understand, because statistic is obtuse, that means that most conclusions indicate a declining player base even despite the very low correlation between the model and any individual month.

6) It's funny how the player base can increase in your world. Average player count maximum was in 2018.  If the player count were increasing you'd see more of the peaks surpassing that, right?  Ahhh....the closest we've gotten to that is the Deimos release.  But of course when you're also including the April of 2013 data it's really easy to lose this.

 

Let me again state this as a simplistic conclusion, so you don't have to read.  Since the end of 2017, when we saw PoE release, DE has changed strategies.  One open world, one remaster, on a yearly basis.  That's the reason that graphing all data available and slapping a linear regression on it is....just silly.  If you graph from the month before PoE, to March 2021, you'll get a trend for the current release style.  It's a downward trend if you slap a linear regression on, at about 364 players lost per month.  Please note this is average player count, which washes out the peak player fallacies.

BEFORE SOMEONE DECIDES THIS IS A DIVERSION, PLEASE READ:

29.10.x is a quarterly release.  It's an attempt to garner some players, on the road to 30.0.  30.0 will be our early year remaster....with what is likely Duviri Paradox or a sentient open world as an October/November/December release window.  As such, the game is bleeding players.  It's bleeding players because of stuff like 29.10.x.  You get new content....but old stuff breaks.  The new content is a reskin, finally getting a component promised 15 months ago, and a new sentinel.  It's largely hidden behind nutty grind (intrinsics), terrible drop rates (Nautilus and Carmine Penta), or my favorite of simply broken mechanics (yeah affinity, standing, and focus seem to have broken to get this thing).

 

In real short, stop trying to come to a conclusion by obfuscating data.  Part one is to average out quarterly value, which hides the very content driven participation.  Part two is stop trying to bury trends by providing so much data noise that you won't ever be able to hear anything.  Finally, let's admit DE are humans.  They do stupid crap, to make the financials and metrics look good.  They release bad.  We shouldn't let them get away with that, as their paying customers.  I'm not sure that hemorrhaging 364 players a month is healthy...or that at this rate 4368 players a year is good.  I'm also not happy when a PC exclusive release brings 10% of players back (as in previous month +10% not 10% of total count)...and based on a linear model we'll be permanently losing that this year.  Is it worth releasing something like 29.10.x when it's demonstrably hurting the game?  No...to say otherwise is baffling.

[MetalPowerPanos]

There is a bug about the warframe Zephyr!!! After I hold 1 to hover if i use subsumed ability and then i use its airburst it kind of buggs preventing me from using any other ability even the 1 and need to roll out or use space to cancel my hover so that my abilities can get unbuged! please fix it! i live my new synergy and it kind of ruins my gameply to have to use one skill roll out of hover touch the ground and have to do that every time i use my combo... (i holded 1 then used subsumed ability and then airburst and it bugged till i hit the ground)

[Dragoon]

That you've reverted to no hotfixes until the next update is baffling considering the state of the release. Things are barely stable and you're going to send this out for the console players with the next content update?

When Call of Tempestarii drops and people realize it's another 20-30 min warframe-acquisition quest and not anything that will actually matter to the story of our operators in-universe, players are going to drop all the sooner because the actual update beforehand is still a mess.

I'm just really disappointed because you'd think you'd still have some teams working on the bugfixes while the new content is ironed out. Railjack Revised broke more systems than it fixed and it feels like we've gotten no closer to communication with the devs about the route they want to take than we were on release. Why are there still bugs in RJ that were there not just when Revised dropped, but when RJ itself dropped? (Turbine doors, anyone?)

I know this may come across as overly critical, but I do love this game. Please use the test servers for their actual purpose rather than putting us PC players through this over and over. We would have told you about so many of these issues the first day of testing, and it feels like you did it simply so you could ignore the problems the hosting/resources/affinity changes would bring. That devstreams are only once a month so you can wait to address those concerns just adds salt to the wound, and it would be nice to know the dev team is actually looking over the questions beforehand so we get reliable answers and not 'yeah, it would be nice' or 'maybe someday.'

It's been 'maybe someday' for literal years at this point for some issues. The Trello board is nice, but the communication that used to be there with the devs feels like it's fallen off a cliff in recent years.

[Graavarg]

5 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

1) You graphed per quarter because of a request....without highlighting that the data was manipulated.  It's an average of the peak and average player counts.  That's not the display of data, but an analysis of quarterly trends.  You don't highlight this in your description...and that's dishonesty that would get you kicked from a discussion on statistics because you've demonstrated manipulation of data to obfuscate things without documentation.

2) Funny you should request that I read, and then you not read mine.  2017-2018 were peak population years, with relatively stable releases following the transition to two annual releases.  It was literally the "things are changing, but no established release pattern" years.  It's highlighted, because it's a point of change where the data would be expected to demonstrate different trends based upon new inputs.

3) You'll note I didn't ask for anything.  I said that if you did this, then you'd see that.  Again....copy, paste, format, and graph.

4) Also funny, you applied a linear trend to a point cloud. If you go from 2013 to 2017, 4 years of previous data where the game basically has to be growing....which would drown out 2 years of data.  It's almost like when the historic data outweighs recent data literally any trend is impossible to predict until it's established itself so well that there's nothing that you can do to react to it.

5) What is the r² value exactly?  I'm seeing 0.69, or basically nothing of value.  Funny.  Apply a polynomial.  A second degree is indicating a plateau (0.76).  3, 4, and 5 indicate a downward trend for the last two years (0.84 peak).  6 indicates a very weak uptick in the months from the Deimos release to the Railjack 3.0 release...with an r² of only 0.84.  For those that don't understand, because statistic is obtuse, that means that most conclusions indicate a declining player base even despite the very low correlation between the model and any individual month.

6) It's funny how the player base can increase in your world. Average player count maximum was in 2018.  If the player count were increasing you'd see more of the peaks surpassing that, right?  Ahhh....the closest we've gotten to that is the Deimos release.  But of course when you're also including the April of 2013 data it's really easy to lose this.

 

Let me again state this as a simplistic conclusion, so you don't have to read.  Since the end of 2017, when we saw PoE release, DE has changed strategies.  One open world, one remaster, on a yearly basis.  That's the reason that graphing all data available and slapping a linear regression on it is....just silly.  If you graph from the month before PoE, to March 2021, you'll get a trend for the current release style.  It's a downward trend if you slap a linear regression on, at about 364 players lost per month.  Please note this is average player count, which washes out the peak player fallacies.

BEFORE SOMEONE DECIDES THIS IS A DIVERSION, PLEASE READ:

29.10.x is a quarterly release.  It's an attempt to garner some players, on the road to 30.0.  30.0 will be our early year remaster....with what is likely Duviri Paradox or a sentient open world as an October/November/December release window.  As such, the game is bleeding players.  It's bleeding players because of stuff like 29.10.x.  You get new content....but old stuff breaks.  The new content is a reskin, finally getting a component promised 15 months ago, and a new sentinel.  It's largely hidden behind nutty grind (intrinsics), terrible drop rates (Nautilus and Carmine Penta), or my favorite of simply broken mechanics (yeah affinity, standing, and focus seem to have broken to get this thing).

 

In real short, stop trying to come to a conclusion by obfuscating data.  Part one is to average out quarterly value, which hides the very content driven participation.  Part two is stop trying to bury trends by providing so much data noise that you won't ever be able to hear anything.  Finally, let's admit DE are humans.  They do stupid crap, to make the financials and metrics look good.  They release bad.  We shouldn't let them get away with that, as their paying customers.  I'm not sure that hemorrhaging 364 players a month is healthy...or that at this rate 4368 players a year is good.  I'm also not happy when a PC exclusive release brings 10% of players back (as in previous month +10% not 10% of total count)...and based on a linear model we'll be permanently losing that this year.  Is it worth releasing something like 29.10.x when it's demonstrably hurting the game?  No...to say otherwise is baffling.

Oh man, you really want to sound like you know things, but it sure does look like a 13-year old copying stuff from the internet. 

1) There was no "manipulation" of data, it is an aggregation, just like the monthly, weekly, and daily data are aggregations. Since it is by quarter, it says "by quarter" in the header (😁), and the Q1, Q2 etc. on the bottom axis means "quarter" 😀.

2) Subjective reasoning. Talk about being "thrown out of class"... 😀

3) Well, you were half right. I did it, but what isn't there cannot be seen (not with my eyes anyway). Even if we limit the "playerbase" to cover only the subset consisting of "Steam players", the trend since your subjective 2017 is growing. I don't personally care one way or the other, that just happens to be the mathematical truth. And that is even with leaving out all other PC players, all Twitch players, all XBOX players, all PS4 players (and now also PS5 players). And if don't remember wrong, PS4(PS5 Warframe account are creeping up towards 20 million, so that is a sizeable chunk left out. 

4) No. I don't have access to a point cloud, the only cloudy thing here is your thinking. Also, calculating trends for point clouds is pretty standard procedure. However, this is a "measure over time"-trend, the most basic of all basic trendlines you can calculate. That is if you understand the concept of trends at all, you seem to want to calculate trends by first deciding on the trend you want and then selecting data to fit. Tip: that is not the way.

5) Yes, if you apply a polynomial trend it looks different. If you select other trendline options you get different trendlines (not surprisingly, and yes, "funny"). However, they show different things and assume different kinds of relationships between X and Y (a polynomial tries to find the current trend in a know fluctuation, and you put in how many such cycles you data has, it is widely used in economics, among other things to find when the "top" or "bottom" has been reached). If you want to assume that the relation between player numbers and time is not linear, feel free to elaborate (that might be... interesting). Or maybe it all depends on sunspots, like climate change supposedly does (or was that the Q-something thing?) 😀.

6) I was simply responding to another poster claiming that the Steam data (per quarter) shows how the playerbase is declining. I had it available, and it doesn't. Unfortunately I don't have your magical capability of "seeing", so I have to use math. 

You are pretty quick with accusations, then again they are so... lets say "not very coherent", so it is actually more fun than aggravation. However, not all might feel that way and this is quite off topic (yes, it IS a diversion), so if you want to continue please move the discussion to a separate thread. I promise I'll join and irritate the f*ck out of the "I'm so sore DE doesn't do what I want", "Warframe is dying", "everyone is leaving", "boohoo"-crowd. 

And really: instead of convoluted and disjointed efforts at criticism => the Steam data is freely available so just prove your point mathematically instead, and stop whining. And no "seeing stuff", trust the math & the data instead. And skip "the playerbase"-concept, since it really is only "Warframe players using Steam". And  if someone could explain this strange hang-up with "the playerbase has to be declining"... 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Graavarg