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Warframe has balance problems, and that's fine


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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I assume by “playing the game wrong”, you mean using off-meta gear and not using nuke frames. Gear that reduces your efficiency. But the way I see it, WF is so easy that you don’t need meta gear to be efficient.

Actually I was more referring to the popular "just take off your mods" thing that many people use as a defense for the power creep for example.

While it may be a partial exaggeration, the point still is mostly about how much a player has to restrict themselves to have things not fall over to a stiff breeze.

I'm also fully aware that we don't need meta gear to be efficient, but that's part of the problem, I'm an utter idiot when it comes to modding and even the garbage builds I cram into weapons grossly overkill anything and everything up to around level 200 in non-Steel Path with minimal effort. The problem is that efficiency in Warframe is so easy to reach that it makes anything inefficient disposable at best and a waste of code at worst.

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39 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Actually I was more referring to the popular "just take off your mods" thing that many people use as a defense for the power creep for example.

Ah, gotcha. I’m not a fan of that suggestion either. I also don’t think it’s necessary to intentionally gimp yourself just to have engaging gameplay in WF.

39 minutes ago, Aldain said:

While it may be a partial exaggeration, the point still is mostly about how much a player has to restrict themselves to have things not fall over to a stiff breeze.

I'm also fully aware that we don't need meta gear to be efficient, but that's part of the problem, I'm an utter idiot when it comes to modding and even the garbage builds I cram into weapons grossly overkill anything and everything up to around level 200 in non-Steel Path with minimal effort. The problem is that efficiency in Warframe is so easy to reach that it makes anything inefficient disposable at best and a waste of code at worst.

I can certainly agree with all of this.

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5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I agree. If people wanna go back to 2013 warframe they can without pushing their views on everyone else. They can make a discord for people that don't use Condition overload and Bloodrush, don't move too fast through a tileset by setting "no speed running builds", they can use recruit chat, make a clan etc.

When I joined, a 7 year player even told me this is the best time to play warframe. Many people seem to like the game except for the handful of warframe "purists" that are a loud majority. I can only hope and pray that DE doesn't listen to them.

I don't think it is a "purists" type of problem, but rather warframe is beyond the scope of what it was 8 years ago. As a founder, I would also say this is the best time to play warframe. But, I also said it every year prior to this one, and I would probably say it for every "next year" to come. I think it is the constant update, change, balancing, and rework that ultimately creates an enjoyable gameplay loop and experience that makes warframe, warframe.

I dont think warframe will ever achieve a balance that every player would agree on, and I think even bigger titles like WoW has a dissatisfied player population, no matter how much change occur. But, for what they have done over the past years and what they plan on doing in the future, I have faith in the dev's direction and their responses to the community.

My founder status does give me a potential bias, but gotta give DE a break too. Heck, game is still technically in Open Beta ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

 

In any case, that's my take.  What's yours?

My take is similar to your but with one key Difference....

While I don't mind that it's not Balance... I do mind that it's not Dynamic, Unique or Engaging Enough....

We need more Ninja Fantasy reinforced into the Gameplay.... It doesn't need to balanced at first but I insist that it has to be Dynamic in some way....

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5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:
6 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

feel ignored then please step off for a while.

GaaS is an acronym for "Games as a Service", not a person. Games like Warframe which are designed to run perpetually through constant content drops. MMOs, F2Ps, etc.

My fault. I was referring to Gaz TTV. Misspelled completely.

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5 hours ago, Aldain said:

There is a question that is to be begged about that though.

Why does the bypassing information cause the entire game to not play even remotely the same as it does for a clueless novice?

I can look up whatever I want for a lot of other games, but even with prior knowledge there's usually some degree of execution and engagement needed beyond that, Warframe lacks that depth because "bypassing information" translates to "obtuse, gamebreaking power creep" nine times out of ten.

Warframe's imbalance has been slowly chipping away at anything that actually makes the game engaging, we have Warframes that eliminate the need to dodge, weapons that eliminate the need to aim and as a result we now have content that many players don't want to engage with, and I don't blame people for not engaging with it when there's no point in purposely playing a game wrong just to squeeze out some remote semblance of meaningful gameplay.

I disagree here and so does my experience with playing in pub as well as DE's own stats. Messaging plays a critical role in any game and, when a player is told exactly what to do to win, the experience has been lost. Companies trying to find content that can steer away from that is unfair and, in my opinion, shouldn't be done. Players self sabotaging their favorite game's experience, and then follow that with complaints about a lack of experience, is unbelievably dumb when reality sets in. Arguing it means nothing.

In regard to "playing the game wrong", there is no "playing the game wrong"...and that proves my point. Early Warframe players had no spoilers because the content creators were those early players. They've had their fill and, originally, kept spoilers and bypassing limited. They, originally, understood and valued the Warframe gameplay experience that gave them their 1000+ hour fun. 

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What I hate is when something is perfectly fine, but then DE feels like change needs to be made for the sake of change and they just make things worse. Status shotguns are garbage now for literally no good reason. IDK how “fixing their below 100% status glitch” has to involve firing a nerf hammer from orbit.

Because all it really did is make 30% status shotguns below 100% status were stuck at the average status chance for shotguns. They fixed a glitch just to make the effect that glitch had universal amongst all shotguns. Why?

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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11 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I look for possibilities, not limits and restrictions, in games and in life.

I have been accused of being all kinds of things for trying to look at the good and not concentrate on the bad, personally and professionally.

I find the Fun things I like and play with those, I don't dwell on the things I simply don't find Fun.

So, IMO, it really is one's POV that determines if there is even a 'problem'...be it balance or w/e.

IMO, just because there are minds that like to tear things apart in some effort to find flaws in game systems, it does not mean there is an issue, only that some people like to tear things apart to find flaws.

IME, it just makes the people who like to find flaws angry that many of us just don't care to hunt for flaws, point them out, and/or gather the torches and circle the wagons in some effort bring the game or DE 'down a notch', or w/e the reason of the day is to trash DE/WF...I don't see it as the 'tough love' so many players trying to play the role of Parent to DE do, I see unhappy people tearing apart things to make themselves feel better because they found a flaw in something successful.

There is nothing in this world that is perfect if you choose to take a POV that tears it apart into it's components looking for flaws.

IMO, you can choose to enjoy things for what they are, but IME, there are people that have convinced themselves that finding flaws is Fun. If one likes to do that, great, but just because one person sees a thing as flawed, another person just sees a cool game with hours of Entertainment.

This kind of ignorance is what keeps any real progress from happening. This doesn't mean that there aren't problems. This just means that you're too lazy and/or afraid to admit that the problems exist.

You're really blaming the victims here by acting like anyone who complains about anything is just a jerk who's only out to ruin everyone else's fun. But, people aren't critical of things they love because they want to destroy them. They are critical because they want them to be better. And when you love something enough, and spend enough time with it, all its flaws become super obvious.

You can't fix a problem if you never admit its even a problem in the first place. If everyone always just praises DE, despite all their mistakes, why would they ever try to improve? The current state of complete and total imbalance will never change either if we don't tell DE to change it. Just like how we would still be on melee 1.0, and parkour 1.0, if no one ever pointed out how bad the earlier versions of the systems were.

Really, this just goes to show how little you actually care about this game. If you truly loved it, you would want it to be the best it could possibly be. You wouldn't be willing to just lazily settle for it being good enough. And you wouldn't be constantly trying to stop everyone else from trying to do their small part to make it better, either. If anyone is trying to sabotage this game, its you.

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7 hours ago, Aldain said:

Actually I was more referring to the popular "just take off your mods" thing that many people use as a defense for the power creep for example.

While it may be a partial exaggeration, the point still is mostly about how much a player has to restrict themselves to have things not fall over to a stiff breeze.

I'm also fully aware that we don't need meta gear to be efficient, but that's part of the problem, I'm an utter idiot when it comes to modding and even the garbage builds I cram into weapons grossly overkill anything and everything up to around level 200 in non-Steel Path with minimal effort. The problem is that efficiency in Warframe is so easy to reach that it makes anything inefficient disposable at best and a waste of code at worst.

This is one of the biggest contributing factors to Warframe's tedium. Its core game loop conflicts with itself.

Its incredibly easy to become super overpowered, but its not very fun to be super overpowered. Yet, almost every part of the game encourages being as powerful as possible all the time, while constantly gaining even more power on top of that.

The entire reason to keep playing is to get new stuff. But when all the new stuff just makes you even more OP, and therefore makes the game even more boring, why bother? Its just a waste of time if you end up never using it. But, since this is the primary mechanism that keeps players playing, ignoring it probably means you'll just stop playing all together. Not getting new stuff means no grinding. No grinding means no playing. No playing means no income for DE. No income for DE means the game dies. And I don't think any of us wants that.

But, this is the inevitable fate of any game that tries to last forever. Unless the Devs have a very thorough and well thought out plan for the future, its all doomed to fall apart eventually. DE has clearly never had any kind of long term plans for this game. They just cobbled together a basic foundation, and then threw so much random junk onto it that it never had any hope of being very stable. And its really only through blind luck that it hasn't collapsed yet.

There is a reason that less than 20% of all the people that have ever tried Warframe still play it. Its just plain not worth it to stick around for very long, because the game actually gets worse the longer you play. Instead, DE just tries to manipulate people into playing forever. But that just leads to burnout, and drives even more people away.

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11 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

This kind of ignorance is what keeps any real progress from happening. This doesn't mean that there aren't problems. This just means that you're too lazy and/or afraid to admit that the problems exist.

You're really blaming the victims here by acting like anyone who complains about anything is just a jerk who's only out to ruin everyone else's fun. But, people aren't critical of things they love because they want to destroy them. They are critical because they want them to be better. And when you love something enough, and spend enough time with it, all its flaws become super obvious.

You can't fix a problem if you never admit its even a problem in the first place. If everyone always just praises DE, despite all their mistakes, why would they ever try to improve? The current state of complete and total imbalance will never change either if we don't tell DE to change it. Just like how we would still be on melee 1.0, and parkour 1.0, if no one ever pointed out how bad the earlier versions of the systems were.

Really, this just goes to show how little you actually care about this game. If you truly loved it, you would want it to be the best it could possibly be. You wouldn't be willing to just lazily settle for it being good enough. And you wouldn't be constantly trying to stop everyone else from trying to do their small part to make it better, either. If anyone is trying to sabotage this game, its you.

What he said was not ignorant at all. It is absolutely true that there are people who actively seek flaws and he said he was cool with that. For him, if the flaw isn't of value enough to need addressing then he ignores it. That is all he said. You took it to an insanely dramatic level. "Victims"? "Sabotage"? Really?

In truth, there's no reason for DE to tackle some of the flaws in the game. The single largest reason for that is that it wouldn't change the overall gameplay enough for 99.5% of the players to even notice. EHP balancing, AI improvements, etc are the type of "flaws" that will have nearly zero impact on gameplay for those requesting it because the overall goal is to be an enjoyable power fantasy, of which the many 1000+ hour players have proven. Warframe abilities, speed and operator mode are already used against the AI and newer players struggle while seasoned vets don't. That's called progression and mastery. "Corrected" values resulting in enemies withstanding an extra half of a bullet is 100% not worth the work hours required. Meanwhile, making enemies a bit tankier would result in the good ole "bullet sponge" whine fest. So why the hell bother?

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20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Which is fine, and a perfectly valid perspective, but it's not the perspective everyone has. Some people find that their experience is ruined by things like lack of balance, and for them it's more of a "need" than just a "want". IMO if you have a bunch of people who feel that they need something and a bunch of people who are indifferent, then it's still a need. For example:

I'd agree that right now is probably the best time to play Warframe as a new player. If you've got another 300 items to collect and level up and thousands of hours of content ahead of you, then yeah you're going to have a blast. Warframe is going to be great for you.

But as an old player it's possibly the worst time to play because there's just nothing interesting for you to do. Raids are gone, PvP is still dead, there's no challenging content to be seen, etc. Warframe lacks the long-term systems and mechanics necessary to keep veteran players engaged, and one of the reasons it can't have these systems is the lack of balance. There are no epic raids or challenge missions because there can't be; it's impossible to create this kind of content because no one can define what "challenging" means when every player's experience is so wildly different.

Both perspectives are valid and correct. But just because you're happy with where the game is doesn't make other players' needs any less valid.

GaaS is an acronym for "Games as a Service", not a person. Games like Warframe which are designed to run perpetually through constant content drops. MMOs, F2Ps, etc.

as an old player myself, i'm actually alright with reducing the amount of time i play warframe in accordance with the lack of engaging content for me. gives me more time to try new things and whatnot. people tend to group all vets or all new players together as all having the same perspective within their respective categories, but that isn't really true. that said, i definitely still respect and even support your perspective on warframe needing more long-term systems, and how rebalancing a wide variety of systems would go a long way towards that. because even if it's not a need that i personally have, it's still something that would probably make the game better for everyone. curb ramps for example benefit everyone, even though they're only an explicit need for wheelchair users

Edited by continue
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25 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

What he said was not ignorant at all. It is absolutely true that there are people who actively seek flaws and he said he was cool with that. For him, if the flaw isn't of value enough to need addressing then he ignores it. That is all he said. You took it to an insanely dramatic level. "Victims"? "Sabotage"? Really?

There is a reason I have that poster on my ignore list. 🤣

Some humans IME have this idea/drive/desire/outlook that everything, literally everything in life, has to be driven/guided/controlled by the idea of 'getting better'. IMO, it's like taking motivational speaking as a way of life or something and anything that does not, from their POV, promote this outlook is to be attacked and destroyed.

I have one at my local Magic draft nights (should that ever be a thing again). He literally cannot abide the idea that someone like me can just come play Magic for fun and not be intent on becoming 'better', that I can goof off and play for fun once a week.

IME, they often also think I am anti-change, when nothing could be further from the truth, I love WF because it changes, but because I do not agree with the reasoning behind many of the changes these humans propose, or agree that the changes proposed will solve world peace, or even worse I suggest leaving it to the people who actually run the game, I am 'the bad guy'. I have watched this literally for two decades on forums like this. It's hilarious.

I accept WF for what it is - an imperfect, grand experiment by DE that's fun to play.

That simple act of accepting the Entertainment provided without the desire to try and act like a Parent/CEO/Taskmaster to a game company like DE over a GaaS game like WF is to many people the equivalent to saying 'I give up and the world is going to roll me', or something, to the 'driven' individuals.

I think it's sad and hilarious that these 'driven' humans are wound so tight they cannot even abide someone that can relax.

Now, if it's fun for some people to tear down the game systems into little parts so they can find flaws, let them have a party. If that inspires DE or helps WF in some way, awesome. If doing so eases the desire to do it in RL so those people can cope better with other, imperfect systems and humans, even more awesome. I still won't do it, I'll just play games and enjoy life on my own terms, even if just doing that pisses off some people, it is not my problem, it's theirs.

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1 hour ago, continue said:

as an old player myself, i'm actually alright with reducing the amount of time i play warframe in accordance with the lack of engaging content for me. gives me more time to try new things and whatnot.

I'm in the same boat, more or less. My play-time is down to like an hour or two a week, if even that, and I've been slowly shifting to other hobbies. But I still want Warframe to be a large part of my entertainment like how it used to be, and the game still has plenty of untapped potential to be that and more. But I don't see how it can continue to grow and be sustainable when DE keeps kicking longstanding issues like balance down the road - or worse repeating the same mistakes and creating even more issues they'll inevitably have to deal with. The game's getting to the point where these issues can't be ignored anymore like they used to and are actively undermining the new content DE spends so much time and effort creating.

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

but because I do not agree with the reasoning behind many of the changes these humans propose

Those damned humans, wanting things. How dare they!

Edited by PublikDomain
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17 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

This is one of the biggest contributing factors to Warframe's tedium. Its core game loop conflicts with itself.

Its incredibly easy to become super overpowered, but its not very fun to be super overpowered. Yet, almost every part of the game encourages being as powerful as possible all the time, while constantly gaining even more power on top of that.

The entire reason to keep playing is to get new stuff. But when all the new stuff just makes you even more OP, and therefore makes the game even more boring, why bother? Its just a waste of time if you end up never using it. But, since this is the primary mechanism that keeps players playing, ignoring it probably means you'll just stop playing all together. Not getting new stuff means no grinding. No grinding means no playing. No playing means no income for DE. No income for DE means the game dies. And I don't think any of us wants that.

But, this is the inevitable fate of any game that tries to last forever. Unless the Devs have a very thorough and well thought out plan for the future, its all doomed to fall apart eventually. DE has clearly never had any kind of long term plans for this game. They just cobbled together a basic foundation, and then threw so much random junk onto it that it never had any hope of being very stable. And its really only through blind luck that it hasn't collapsed yet.

There is a reason that less than 20% of all the people that have ever tried Warframe still play it. Its just plain not worth it to stick around for very long, because the game actually gets worse the longer you play. Instead, DE just tries to manipulate people into playing forever. But that just leads to burnout, and drives even more people away.

Interesting perspective. I'm curious about how you came up with the "less than 20%" stat. From what I've seen, the long term strategy works very well. Players play until they've had their fill, usually take a break after and then return when new content arrives. That's completely normal and expected. 

I also don't know where you got the "manipulation" stuff from. How are you being manipulated?

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11 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

What he said was not ignorant at all. It is absolutely true that there are people who actively seek flaws and he said he was cool with that. For him, if the flaw isn't of value enough to need addressing then he ignores it. That is all he said. You took it to an insanely dramatic level. "Victims"? "Sabotage"? Really?

In truth, there's no reason for DE to tackle some of the flaws in the game. The single largest reason for that is that it wouldn't change the overall gameplay enough for 99.5% of the players to even notice. EHP balancing, AI improvements, etc are the type of "flaws" that will have nearly zero impact on gameplay for those requesting it because the overall goal is to be an enjoyable power fantasy, of which the many 1000+ hour players have proven. Warframe abilities, speed and operator mode are already used against the AI and newer players struggle while seasoned vets don't. That's called progression and mastery. "Corrected" values resulting in enemies withstanding an extra half of a bullet is 100% not worth the work hours required. Meanwhile, making enemies a bit tankier would result in the good ole "bullet sponge" whine fest. So why the hell bother?

This isn't just about that one post. All of Zimzala's posts have painted a very clear picture of his ideals overall. For example: Just look at his indirect response to my post:

10 hours ago, Zimzala said:

There is a reason I have that poster on my ignore list. 🤣

Some humans IME have this idea/drive/desire/outlook that everything, literally everything in life, has to be driven/guided/controlled by the idea of 'getting better'. IMO, it's like taking motivational speaking as a way of life or something and anything that does not, from their POV, promote this outlook is to be attacked and destroyed.

I have one at my local Magic draft nights (should that ever be a thing again). He literally cannot abide the idea that someone like me can just come play Magic for fun and not be intent on becoming 'better', that I can goof off and play for fun once a week.

IME, they often also think I am anti-change, when nothing could be further from the truth, I love WF because it changes, but because I do not agree with the reasoning behind many of the changes these humans propose, or agree that the changes proposed will solve world peace, or even worse I suggest leaving it to the people who actually run the game, I am 'the bad guy'. I have watched this literally for two decades on forums like this. It's hilarious.

I accept WF for what it is - an imperfect, grand experiment by DE that's fun to play.

That simple act of accepting the Entertainment provided without the desire to try and act like a Parent/CEO/Taskmaster to a game company like DE over a GaaS game like WF is to many people the equivalent to saying 'I give up and the world is going to roll me', or something, to the 'driven' individuals.

I think it's sad and hilarious that these 'driven' humans are wound so tight they cannot even abide someone that can relax.

Now, if it's fun for some people to tear down the game systems into little parts so they can find flaws, let them have a party. If that inspires DE or helps WF in some way, awesome. If doing so eases the desire to do it in RL so those people can cope better with other, imperfect systems and humans, even more awesome. I still won't do it, I'll just play games and enjoy life on my own terms, even if just doing that pisses off some people, it is not my problem, it's theirs.

He doesn't actually refute anyone's ideas, he just comes up with some excuse to invalidate the person instead. That way, he doesn't need to consider anything I might say at all, because he has decided that I myself am too flawed to ever possibly be right about anything. I can't possibly have any good points to make about improving Warframe, because according to him that isn't my goal. Instead, I'm just a sadist here to ruin everyone else's fun for some twisted reason. So how could anything I say be worth listening to?

Plus, he basically never actually has his own point to make, he just wants to tell everyone else they're wrong and stupid for not being as complacent and ignorant as he is. Notice how he never actually mentioned anything about why Warframe is better off being unbalanced? He just said hes fine with it. And, by the way he said it, implies that everyone else should be too. Because apparently, anyone that isn't happy with its current sorry state is "wound so tight they cannot even abide someone that can relax".

The only reason he blocked me is because apparently, using logic and evidence to defend your ideas, instead of just always relying on strawmen and ad hominem to dismiss people is childish bullying.

I know this sounds like I have a grudge, but the reason I still respond to him is that his posts make great examples of how not to argue. And, because I'm blocked, he can't even defend himself, which only helps to prove the folly of ignorance even more.

5 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Interesting perspective. I'm curious about how you came up with the "less than 20%" stat. From what I've seen, the long term strategy works very well. Players play until they've had their fill, usually take a break after and then return when new content arrives. That's completely normal and expected. 

I also don't know where you got the "manipulation" stuff from. How are you being manipulated?

Its based off of the Steam player stats. I was looking at the Railjack achievement percentages, and thinking that barely anyone played it because only about 2% of players had the super easy kill 100 enemies achievement. But, someone pointed out that out of the current active players, that 2% is actually a pretty big chunk. About 80% if I remember correctly. And the only reason it seems so low overall is because the achievement stats are including every single person that ever installed the game on Steam, but the current active playerbase is only a tiny fraction of that. And, since Railjack is so new, anyone that only played long ago obviously wouldn't have the achievement.

So, that means that, at least on Steam, only about 20% of everyone that has ever tried this game at all is currently playing. I don't know the numbers on other platforms, but there isn't really any reason to assume they would be much different. Except for the Switch, maybe, since Warframe launched on there much later than everywhere else.

 

As for manipulation: All games like Warframe use similar tactics to keep their players playing, regardless of their actual enjoyment. Limited time events and seasonal content to induce FOMO. Heavy grinding to induce the sunk cost fallacy. Tons of unfair RNG to get that gambling addiction going. Complicated menus and game systems to keep players logged in for longer, and therefore more likely to spend more money. Hundreds of different currencies to make obtaining things "for free" extra complicated, so that people are more likely to just spend real money and get it over with.

Really, even the powercreep is part of this manipulation. Since it takes so much effort to get a new weapon and fully upgrade it, every time you do it better be the best thing ever, right? Otherwise its not worth it. So, every new weapon they add better be the most powerful thing in the game, or everyone will just ignore it, and the whole endless treadmill of carrots on sticks falls apart. Because if there is not always something new to grind for, there is no reason to play.

And, this is also what causes burnout. Really, the very concept of being burnt out on a game is ridiculous. But all these systems change the whole thing from something you do purely for fun, into something more like a job. So, since you aren't just doing it for fun, but out of obligation, that's where the burnout comes from. And that just ends up driving even more people away overall.

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17 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

This isn't just about that one post. All of Zimzala's posts have painted a very clear picture of his ideals overall. For example: Just look at his indirect response to my post:

He doesn't actually refute anyone's ideas, he just comes up with some excuse to invalidate the person instead. That way, he doesn't need to consider anything I might say at all, because he has decided that I myself am too flawed to ever possibly be right about anything. I can't possibly have any good points to make about improving Warframe, because according to him that isn't my goal. Instead, I'm just a sadist here to ruin everyone else's fun for some twisted reason. So how could anything I say be worth listening to?

Plus, he basically never actually has his own point to make, he just wants to tell everyone else they're wrong and stupid for not being as complacent and ignorant as he is. Notice how he never actually mentioned anything about why Warframe is better off being unbalanced? He just said hes fine with it. And, by the way he said it, implies that everyone else should be too. Because apparently, anyone that isn't happy with its current sorry state is "wound so tight they cannot even abide someone that can relax".

The only reason he blocked me is because apparently, using logic and evidence to defend your ideas, instead of just always relying on strawmen and ad hominem to dismiss people is childish bullying.

I know this sounds like I have a grudge, but the reason I still respond to him is that his posts make great examples of how not to argue. And, because I'm blocked, he can't even defend himself, which only helps to prove the folly of ignorance even more.

Its based off of the Steam player stats. I was looking at the Railjack achievement percentages, and thinking that barely anyone played it because only about 2% of players had the super easy kill 100 enemies achievement. But, someone pointed out that out of the current active players, that 2% is actually a pretty big chunk. About 80% if I remember correctly. And the only reason it seems so low overall is because the achievement stats are including every single person that ever installed the game on Steam, but the current active playerbase is only a tiny fraction of that. And, since Railjack is so new, anyone that only played long ago obviously wouldn't have the achievement.

So, that means that, at least on Steam, only about 20% of everyone that has ever tried this game at all is currently playing. I don't know the numbers on other platforms, but there isn't really any reason to assume they would be much different. Except for the Switch, maybe, since Warframe launched on there much later than everywhere else.

 

As for manipulation: All games like Warframe use similar tactics to keep their players playing, regardless of their actual enjoyment. Limited time events and seasonal content to induce FOMO. Heavy grinding to induce the sunk cost fallacy. Tons of unfair RNG to get that gambling addiction going. Complicated menus and game systems to keep players logged in for longer, and therefore more likely to spend more money. Hundreds of different currencies to make obtaining things "for free" extra complicated, so that people are more likely to just spend real money and get it over with.

Really, even the powercreep is part of this manipulation. Since it takes so much effort to get a new weapon and fully upgrade it, every time you do it better be the best thing ever, right? Otherwise its not worth it. So, every new weapon they add better be the most powerful thing in the game, or everyone will just ignore it, and the whole endless treadmill of carrots on sticks falls apart. Because if there is not always something new to grind for, there is no reason to play.

And, this is also what causes burnout. Really, the very concept of being burnt out on a game is ridiculous. But all these systems change the whole thing from something you do purely for fun, into something more like a job. So, since you aren't just doing it for fun, but out of obligation, that's where the burnout comes from. And that just ends up driving even more people away overall.

Don't rely on steam. Also don't mistake typical player habits as manipulation. You're not weak bro. There's a difference between engagement and manipulation. 

 

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Can someone tell me , why is so painfull to farm pink mortus ? I have booster , I am using nekros  and still not droping , they don't even spawn flameblades ;-;

 

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