How should Nyx be fixed..?

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

3 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Step 1:

Acknowledge there are Warframes people don't like.

Step 2:

Said people just play Warframes they like.

She just needs adjustments to fit how Warframes are designed now, not an actual rework like people suggest; which often amounts turning her into another dps Warframe. Don't like cc/utility? Don't use them then. Removing armor alone is already extremely strong of a dps increase against specific enemies. The fact it also removes shields and other interactions it has is also good; as other armor removals generally only remove armor on top of needing insane strength investment for 100%.

Except, it hasn't. The only reworks that increased popularity only occurred due to their kits being insanely broken by design. Without this being the case, all it does is upset the people that liked them as they were. Karma for example, one of the earlier reworks, upset a lot of the people that originally played her. She is rarely played other than when she's meta. Her kit is also stuck in the phase of either being too good, or worthless, as her role shifted into a burst mage with utility, or a shield bot.

Then you have cases of a cc tank, like Sejuani, being reworked into a tank with barely any cc by comparison and focused heavily on dealing burst damage. She isn't any more popular than she was pre-rework either. She's almost the least played jungler, and is the least picked for top lane.

There's also the fact reworks in the game aren't even always about "reviving" them, but because their kits are impossible to balance. Which often times, the rework doesn't even solve that issue... Ryze got reworked, then changed again, and still needs a rework again. Poppy got a rework because her original form was pretty much insanely overpowered and Riot even said if she ever got picked in pro play frequently before her rework, she was going to be nerfed right into the ground.

Reworks based on pick/usage rates are absurd anyways. When you have tens to eventually 100+ options, naturally some options are going to have low pick/usage rates due to there being too many options. There's also the issue of overlapping kits. Warframe already has multiple instances of Warframes doing more or less the same exact thing, and the one that does that same thing better is going to be used more often.

While I do agree with some of that, I did state that many of the reworks were successful, which I will still argue is true.

Also pick rates aren’t the only reason reworks happen, sometimes as champions age their kits become toxic, like Yorick’s for example. It’s also happened quite a few times that some of the least picked champions will have the highest win rates.

But still, you have to keep in mind that the balance in league is extremely sensitive. A champion by the name of Graves once received a buff as small as increasing his base armor by 4. He went from being C tier to S overnight off of that one patch.

Riot has an extremely sensitive and intricately interwoven kit, yet they are at the helm making balance changes constantly. With that in mind, there’s really no reason why Digital extremes aren’t even attempting balance tweaks in their game.

There’s not a single warframe who’s power budget would even fluctuate with as small of a change as a 1% increase to their armor. Yet DE barely ever make changes.

Keep in mind too, just like Riot, if a change was ever a mistake it could simply be reverted. Honesty it just seems like a lack of vision or enthusiasm that DE is willing to let such a large amount of the frames flounder.

 

Also as a closing note, say what you will about what Riot has done in the past, but currently, in season 11 the vast majority of champions are sitting within the 48-52% winrate margin in the vast majority of ranks. There’s only a handful of champions. Who are omnipresent, and another handful who are barely picked.

I think the state of the game speaks for itself that a hands on approach works, definitely better than allowing your game to stagnate while over half of the content, weapons and frames are barely even worth using.

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I'd like to see a gamemode where people had to be more careful about just randomly spamming kill abilities and aoe weapons; and frames like Nyx made sense. 

Maybe some kind of exterminate style map, except you are hunting specific more powerful troops/commanders and some elite squads as well, etc. and if you kill the wrong enemies you lose points and can even fail the mission if you kill too many normal scrub troops. You gain points and complete objectives by getting the correct enemies killed with as little collateral damage (random scrub enemies that aren't marked for kill) as possible. 

More targeted cc would also be more useful in something like that, for example frames like Vauban would want to use their abilities more cleverly to keep enemies seperated, instead of doing lazy stuff like Vortexing everything with max range, and still being able to do a damage build on top of it for the hell of it if they feel like it because Tesla Bank doesn't take power strength into account. 

I could also see a map like this where maybe you are going to free a colony from the grineer or something, and you have to take out elite troops without accidentally killing too many colonist bystanders or destroying their homes. 

That would be a neat way to make us feel more connected to the consequences of our actions and the universe around us, and more make us feel how Tenno are supposed to be the hero of the common man. 

Something like "Colony Liberation Mission" or something like that idk. 

Yup, thats something i would like to play (once in a while) , selective surgical strikes to keep collateral damage to a minimum.

[Zaniel_Aus]

I must have a different ability on my Nyx because my version of Chaos is amazing. OK, the rest of her kit is underwhelming but I have no idea why people complain about Chaos, huge range and duration, just lock up a whole map. Best frame for Rescues when you don't want to be disturbed.

[Zaniel_Aus]

3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I could also see a map like this where maybe you are going to free a colony from the grineer or something, and you have to take out elite troops without accidentally killing too many colonist bystanders or destroying their homes. 

That would be a neat way to make us feel more connected to the consequences of our actions and the universe around us, and more make us feel how Tenno are supposed to be the hero of the common man. 

Something like "Colony Liberation Mission" or something like that idk. 

This would be a fantastic game mode, reward accuracy and clever movement. Almost like a semi-Rainbow 6 Siege game mode.

[Blake666]

nyx's 4th defo needs a change being a psychic warframe. 

instead of absorb damage and AoE... 

what about her just psychically pushing enemies away from her and stunning them for a duration.

the mod with this power holds them in place for a duration and makes the enemies attack them upon death they explode doing dmg of stored dmg. (effected by duration only) 

[JackHargreav]

To me, she's just god damn boring.

On paper she sounds good a psychic warframe that can control minds and absorb incoming damage to reflect it back in a big explosion. Sounds nice, but in game it's just so boring.

The mind control part is better done by Xaku or Resonator. The 4th ability becomes useless after lvl 100 both with and without the augments.

Only psychic bolts can do something worth it everything else is below mediocre pretty much.

[SenorClipClop]

IMO, the reason Nyx gets sidelined so much is because her core design philosophy isn't very popular with the general playerbase. Reb has stated that Nyx is based on fighting the enemy indirectly -- disrupt and debuff the enemy, get the enemy to fight for for you, turn enemy damage back upon them. However, it seems the more popular approach by far is fighting the enemy directly -- I want to push a button or three and watch enemies fall as a direct result of that, it's satisfying. I think Nyx is somewhat balanced in terms of potential output, but I don't think she'll ever be popular unless her core design principle shifts or she's buffed to the point of being an AFK-machine. Not saying I want that -- I don't -- just my observation of things.

[LillyRaccune]

I don't deny that Nyx can be really powerful. But it isn't clear how to actually make the best use of her. Similar to Limbo, a lot of her popular builds require min-maxing to take advantage of her abilities. There is definitely a learning curve with her.

Perhaps Nyx is meant to be a "Pro" Frame? For a Drag Race you can bring pretty much any type of vehicle. For a Formula One Race you can only use F1 cars, Nyx would be this category.

Regarding her 4th ability, maybe her augment should be integrated into her kit. DE has acknowledged that mobility is important to gameplay.

Considering the possibility of a full blown rework, I think Nyx's kit should be adjusted to match the abilities of a character to which she bears striking resemblance:  https://darksector.fandom.com/wiki/Nemesis

If other players enjoy playing Nyx and like how she is right now, great. It would be nice to see more of Nyx in public matches, it's pretty rare.

[Aesthier]

I currently use Nyx to solo the 1000 Kills in steel path NW mission by just messing around.

4 is awesome! Permanent Pally Bubble!

I guess I don't see what the problem is.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Even defense missions have better options than Nyx these days.

Theres better frames for Steel Path than Nyx.

I’ll use Nyx when she’s actually made good.

I was showing that there’s multiple examples of frames with niches having those niches massively overvalued when the reality is they are useless everywhere else that matters.

So like I said before you don't play her. So you're making assumptions, kinda pointless really.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

22 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

So like I said before you don't play her. So you're making assumptions, kinda pointless really.

Well when even the Nyx mains are asking for a rework I don’t really need to try her out for myself to know that there’s a serious problem with her.

[Drachnyn]

The changes I'd like to see for nyx are a bit simple but worth it, not a whole lot about her abilities has to change imo.

Most importantly her 1 needs changes, more specifically the enemy AI. You can already get the mind controlled target to decent levels of damage with the right setup and by using her 2. The problem that remains is that there's a lot of time where the mind controlled unit will not properly do damage because of seeking cover, reloading, melee striking with a gun and most annoyingly: being knocked down. IMO mind controlled enemies should no longer have to reload, always use their gun if they have one and be immune to staggers and knockdowns. Giving enemies affected by nyx' 2 increased threat level would also be nice.

All that should be changed about her 2 is ending the duration of the previous cast if you cast it again. I dont really see a reason to limit this ability to only ever affecting 6 enemies at once, you still have to cast it everytime.

The real thing her 3 needs is content that wants us to use CC. Could chaos be improved to never allow enemies to target tenno faction while affected? Sure, I guess but I dont think that's what's holding the ability back.

Her 4 is awkward because it's exactly amazing in the most simple and boring missions, I dont think this requires any big changes it should just be made relevant by making more complex missions than survival or defense. The two things I would change about the ability would be to massively increase the duration of the damage buff you can gain afterwards (perhaps limiting it to only be gained through enemy fire and not ally fire, not sure about this tbh) and to remove the movement penalties her 4 augment gets. Being invulnerable in warframe is not significant or unique enough to have that massive of a downside.

[Teridax68]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Highly inaccurate:

She doesn't do "one thing". That means you personally are using her for one thing. Nyx, like basically all frames, can be used for multiple playstyles, similar to wukong being made specifically for spy versus an arbitration, khora for defense or just whipping etc.

This would perhaps sound true if Nyx and her Prime didn't have a paltry 0.53% combined pick rate, and didn't have that routinely justified by other players with Assimilate (it used to be Chaos, but it seems people have picked up on the fact that's it's not very good now). By all means, though, please do list her "multiple playstyles" and we can see whether your claim holds water.

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Many frames use mods for survival and/or Vazarin for example. Any frame can use Adaptation, arcane grace/guardian, quick thinking etc. 

The fact that any frame can use any mod does not mean every frame uses every mod equally, otherwise that defeats the purpose of the build diversity you are claiming exists with Nyx. As it stands, her health, shields, and armor are nothing special, her passive is unreliable, and her 4 doesn't synergize at all with survivability mods while also having the potential to undercut Quick Thinking with its increasing Energy drain, so I'd argue that she's not really the best-suited frame for survival mods at all. I'm not sure why we're even bringing survival mods into the equation when Assimilate is typically cited as her key survival ability.

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She is far from clunky as well: she can cast some abilities while parkouring making them seamless. It depends on if the player behind Nyx actually knows what they're doing. 

I don't know if you know this, but a little while ago, practically every warframe received a pass allowing most of their abilities to be cast while parkouring. This still leaves frames with animation locks, which is pretty much the opposite of "seamless", and in Nyx's case her abilities just have no logical flow between one another. By claiming that this all depends on the skill of the Nyx player, this presumes you have some sort of in-depth knowledge of Nyx: care to show how much time you've spent on her?

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Inaccurate again, it is great and is incredibly useful. An actual experienced player can survive an occasional stray bullet.

Ah yes, I forgot I could derive a damage reduction bonus from my experience when taking a direct instance of damage, of which there are many in Warframe's environments full of spammy, often AoE damage. How silly of me.

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Whether enemies attack you is also based on proximity.

Which given the tight spaces in which we often fight, the messy nature of combat in Warframe, and the radial nature of Chaos encouraging Nyx to place herself at the center of a room full of enemies in order to affect them all, means she and her allies are perfectly liable to still get attacked by the very design. Even a modicum of experience with Nyx should indicate this.

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Mind control is 1 single target...and chaos is a wide aoe if the player chooses. So no...they don't "essentially do the same thing".

They're not the same thing... because one ability does the same thing as the other in an AoE? Care to explain how that makes sense?

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Nyx isn't Xaku, but nice try, her psychic bolts are fine as they are: a quick and instant result for a single button press. Sure it'd be nice to affect more enemies, but I make it work either way. 

That's nice, but you're not the only person playing Warframe. A direct comparison easily shows Psychic Bolts is an underwhelming armor strip relative to many other effects, something even you haven't tried to deny, and most of those abilities do more stuff besides. At the end of the day, you can make whichever you excuses you like, but there's no excuse for Nyx's abysmally low pick rate, so if you truly like her, you perhaps oughtn't refuse at least the basic notion that she could use some improvements here and there. Beyond this, I'm genuinely curious to know where the Xaku comparison comes in, given that literally none of the abilities I brought up function like theirs.

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Nyx doesn't need to target anyone for chaos. All we have to do now is a single input and you get instant aoe chaos stun. Nyx is not Xaku.

I agree, Nyx is not Xaku, which is why mind controlling select enemies, as she already does, is something she'd still get to do with her kit that Xaku can't, given that Accuse's own enemy-turning effect is AoE, and much closer to her current Chaos as a result.

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I also don't need my health and shields lowered, either. 

Why not? Surely you have the skill and experience to play around that?

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Let's start with tweaks first....I don't agree with this rework at all.

That's fine, and I can understand the approach of wanting to be cautious first. However, Nyx already received cautious changes in the form of her rework, and look where it got her. Clearly, she needs a bit more work.

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Wrong again. As I've already said: 

Side note, but "As I've already said" presumes you have said something that the person you are arguing with has already seen. Given that you are saying this in the literal only post you have made on this thread, you're expecting me to either be clairvoyant, or care enough about what you had to say in some other thread to remember it here, neither of which is truly a reasonable expectation.

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Nyx is more than assimilate, if you can't handle playing her any other way, that's an issue with you as a player and not Nyx specifically.

"I think X frame is good, actually, and if you disagree you suck and that's a you problem. Stop criticizing the things I like!"

But really, the fact is that Nyx clearly isn't doing well, and your personal accounts of how great you are don't really counteract that. She's not a popular frame, and she has issues even DE acknowledges, and tried unsuccessfully to solve. You can call everyone who disagrees bad as much as you like, at the end of the day, the rest of us can be bad and still get catered to, while you can use your boundless skill and adaptability to just... well, adapt.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

This would perhaps sound true if Nyx and her Prime didn't have a paltry 0.53% combined pick rate, and didn't have that routinely justified by other players with Assimilate (it used to be Chaos, but it seems people have picked up on the fact that's it's not very good now). By all means, though, please do list her "multiple playstyles" and we can see whether your claim holds water.

The fact that any frame can use any mod does not mean every frame uses every mod equally, otherwise that defeats the purpose of the build diversity you are claiming exists with Nyx. As it stands, her health, shields, and armor are nothing special, her passive is unreliable, and her 4 doesn't synergize at all with survivability mods while also having the potential to undercut Quick Thinking with its increasing Energy drain, so I'd argue that she's not really the best-suited frame for survival mods at all. I'm not sure why we're even bringing survival mods into the equation when Assimilate is typically cited as her key survival ability.

I don't know if you know this, but a little while ago, practically every warframe received a pass allowing most of their abilities to be cast while parkouring. This still leaves frames with animation locks, which is pretty much the opposite of "seamless", and in Nyx's case her abilities just have no logical flow between one another. By claiming that this all depends on the skill of the Nyx player, this presumes you have some sort of in-depth knowledge of Nyx: care to show how much time you've spent on her?

Ah yes, I forgot I could derive a damage reduction bonus from my experience when taking a direct instance of damage, of which there are many in Warframe's environments full of spammy, often AoE damage. How silly of me.

Which given the tight spaces in which we often fight, the messy nature of combat in Warframe, and the radial nature of Chaos encouraging Nyx to place herself at the center of a room full of enemies in order to affect them all, means she and her allies are perfectly liable to still get attacked by the very design. Even a modicum of experience with Nyx should indicate this.

They're not the same thing... because one ability does the same thing as the other in an AoE? Care to explain how that makes sense?

That's nice, but you're not the only person playing Warframe. A direct comparison easily shows Psychic Bolts is an underwhelming armor strip relative to many other effects, something even you haven't tried to deny, and most of those abilities do more stuff besides. At the end of the day, you can make whichever you excuses you like, but there's no excuse for Nyx's abysmally low pick rate, so if you truly like her, you perhaps oughtn't refuse at least the basic notion that she could use some improvements here and there. Beyond this, I'm genuinely curious to know where the Xaku comparison comes in, given that literally none of the abilities I brought up function like theirs.

I agree, Nyx is not Xaku, which is why mind controlling select enemies, as she already does, is something she'd still get to do with her kit that Xaku can't, given that Accuse's own enemy-turning effect is AoE, and much closer to her current Chaos as a result.

Why not? Surely you have the skill and experience to play around that?

That's fine, and I can understand the approach of wanting to be cautious first. However, Nyx already received cautious changes in the form of her rework, and look where it got her. Clearly, she needs a bit more work.

Side note, but "As I've already said" presumes you have said something that the person you are arguing with has already seen. Given that you are saying this in the literal only post you have made on this thread, you're expecting me to either be clairvoyant, or care enough about what you had to say in some other thread to remember it here, neither of which is truly a reasonable expectation.

"I think X frame is good, actually, and if you disagree you suck and that's a you problem. Stop criticizing the things I like!"

But really, the fact is that Nyx clearly isn't doing well, and your personal accounts of how great you are don't really counteract that. She's not a popular frame, and she has issues even DE acknowledges, and tried unsuccessfully to solve. You can call everyone who disagrees bad as much as you like, at the end of the day, the rest of us can be bad and still get catered to, while you can use your boundless skill and adaptability to just... well, adapt.

"3 - Chaos: Nyx marks the target enemy for a duration, causing it to emit an aura that reduces its maximum armor and shields as well as that of other nearby enemies, while causing affected enemies to attack the target."

"Gazed target also emits a defense reduction aura with a ? / ? / ? / 12 meter radius, which weakens other enemies' current maximum Shields and Armor by 20% / 30% / 40% / 50% while within range."

Can you see that Xaku comparison now? The wiki is there for all to read. 

And you shouldn't be using a usage chart to justify reworks. All 45 frames will never be equal usage....not sure why you think Nyx is gonna be up there with wukong and Mesa because of a rework.

I already said tweaks and adjustments are great, but your rework is just bad in my opinion. There are other people that think Nyx is fine as well. 

Some people are just better with some frames more than others. 

[EdinaMonsoon]

Helminth has already fixed nyx: just replace mind control with pillage and she instantly becomes ready for the steel path

[Berzerkules]

3 minutes ago, EdinaMonsoon said:

Helminth has already fixed nyx: just replace mind control with pillage and she instantly becomes ready for the steel path

Base Nyx is ready for steal path, no helminth required. 

[JackHargreav]

39 minutes ago, EdinaMonsoon said:

Helminth has already fixed nyx: just replace mind control with pillage and she instantly becomes ready for the steel path

Please don't use Helminth as an excuse to not rework frames.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

Please don't use Helminth as an excuse to not rework frames.

Why? DE did lol

[Teridax68]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Can you see that Xaku comparison now? The wiki is there for all to read. 

I mean, I read the wiki the first time, and I can see why you specifically would draw comparisons to Xaku, I just think the comparison is nonsensical and based more on spite than well-founded analysis. By that same silly logic, Nyx and Loki are the same frame given that Loki's 4 augment basically turns Radial Disarm into a better Chaos, yet clearly that comparison doesn't hold either. Similarly, one can give two different frames defense reduction auras on abilities that also have completely different functionality with respect to the way they influence enemies (one stuns a single enemy, the other marks target to be attacked), and they're not going to be the same frame. Nice try though.

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And you shouldn't be using a usage chart to justify reworks. All 45 frames will never be equal usage....not sure why you think Nyx is gonna be up there with wukong and Mesa because of a rework.

One absolutely can and should use use charts to justify reworks when the pick rate of a warframe is abysmally low. This is what happened with Nyx during her first rework, and what happened with Zephyr, who was in the absolute bottom of the barrel. I don't aim to make Nyx one of the most-picked frames in the game (that is, ultimately, only a presumption you've made), I just think she deserves to not be as notoriously unpopular as she is now, especially because she's unpopular for a bunch of well-known reasons.

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I already said tweaks and adjustments are great, but your rework is just bad in my opinion. There are other people that think Nyx is fine as well. 

There are some people who think the Earth is flat. The fact that more than one of them exists in the world does not give their belief validity. You are welcome to dislike my rework, and I myself don't think any of what I proposed is set in stone when it would come to actual implementation, but your belief that Nyx can somehow have all her problems solved with "tweaks and adjustments" is disproven by her previous rework, of which I'm sure you're aware..

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Some people are just better with some frames more than others. 

Agreed, but you are in no position to decide who the good and the bad players are, no matter how hard you try to insist otherwise. Insulting the skill of players you disagree with and using that to dismiss their position is a silly and immature tactic that has no place in a civil discussion, and a tactic you really ought to drop given that it's already landed you in trouble not long ago.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

One absolutely can and should use usage charts to justify reworks when the pick rate of a warframe is abysmally low. This is what happened with Nyx during her first rework, and what happened with Zephyr, who was in the absolute bottom of the barrel. I don't aim to make Nyx one of the most-picked frames in the game (that is, ultimately, only a presumption you've made), I just think she deserves to not be as notoriously unpopular as she is now, especially because she's unpopular for a bunch of well-known reasons.

Sorry pal but from reading your previous comments it's pretty clear you don't how to play the frame or you have no vested interest in doing so, making your opinion much weaker. I disagree that usage charts should govern reworks purely on the fact that the average casual player will gravitate towards lazy frames that play the game for them. That's NOT A GOOD THING. Encouraging lazy play should not be the focus here. Saryn is popular, Wukong is popular, Mesa, Khora etc why? Because they simplify the game for players to watch tv while playing, that's not a good thing. Inaros is popular along with Rhino cos newbies who stand still all the time are less likely to die with them. Nyx isn't popular because she requires work to get the best out of her and experience to do so, kind of like how Banshee isn't popular despite being an absolute in the hands of a skilled player. Just because new players don't find Nyx enjoyable doesn't justify a rework unless you're a company looking purely at the bottom dollar. Having a diverse range of frames that can appeal to all different types of players is healthy for the game., There are plenty of players who enjoy Nyx just as she is. Before you make some sarcastic comment about "my own vast experience with Nyx" like you have in your 2 previous comments to the other guy(ironic when you're patronising him for being disrespectful) I'll just inform you that she's my 2nd most played frame and if you don't believe me, feel free to go and check my profile. In other words, I know what I'm talking about regarding her abilities, I'm not blowing hot air out my orifice like you appear to be when claiming her abilities don't work. Mind control? Sure that one's bad but the other 3 are fine and are useful. Not many frames have 4 good abilities should we rework them all? Yeh I didn't think so.

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Mind control? Sure that one's bad but the other 3 are fine and are useful. Not many frames have 4 good abilities should we rework them all? Yeh I didn't think so.

We should however try to make those bad abilities good on those frames and the thing nyx needs for her 1 isnt really stat changes but AI behaviour changes imo. I dont think pointing at other frames who need a rework more is very constructive because with a greater need for rework also comes a much larger effort meaning it will take much more time to get them to a good spot. In the meantime we can still push for smaller adjustments to frames that only need small adjustments.

vor 12 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Saryn is popular, Wukong is popular, Mesa, Khora etc why? Because they simplify the game for players to watch tv while playing, that's not a good thing

IMO they only ever simplify already simplistic missions, it's not them that require change it's survival and defense that do.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

22 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

We should however try to make those bad abilities good on those frames and the thing nyx needs for her 1 isnt really stat changes but AI behaviour changes imo. I dont think pointing at other frames who need a rework more is very constructive because with a greater need for rework also comes a much larger effort meaning it will take much more time to get them to a good spot. In the meantime we can still push for smaller adjustments to frames that only need small adjustments.

IMO they only ever simplify already simplistic missions, it's not them that require change it's survival and defense that do.

Yeh I can get behind that, I mean I think we'd all appreciate better Ai in the game. I wasn't advocating for other frames needing a rework I was pointing out that 1 bad ability on a frame does not justify a rework and people claiming the other abilities are trash are mostly players who don't even use the frame. It would be like me trying to rubbish Zephyr and downplay claims from players who DO actually play the frame. My opinion would hold little water.

In the case of Wukong I would make an exception seeing as he simplifies missions that don't require enemy kills, purely by being able to fly while invisible. That's lazy as hell but that's why he's picked. Remove Cloudwalker and watch the usage plummet.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Well when even the Nyx mains are asking for a rework I don’t really need to try her out for myself to know that there’s a serious problem with her.

Most Nyx mains would prefer a thematic rework rather than the abilities and most of the criticism is rightfully levelled at her 1st ability. The rest of the frame however is perfectly fine. Absorb is a bit of a conundrum in that it has uses that are unintended but very powerful, doesn't make it good or bad, just odd if anything. 

[Aldain]

55 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Most Nyx mains would prefer a thematic rework rather than the abilities and most of the criticism is rightfully levelled at her 1st ability. The rest of the frame however is perfectly fine. Absorb is a bit of a conundrum in that it has uses that are unintended but very powerful, doesn't make it good or bad, just odd if anything. 

I'd like to see her have a bit more kit synergy honestly, it's a similar issue I take with Loki and Hydroid actually.

Mind Control we all know is isolated and kind of a dud overall, but her other 3 abilities don't quite play into each other in a seamless way imo, Psychic Bolts surely helps because going "lol no armor" is powerful as hell, but even with no defensive attributes Mind Control and Chaos still kind of have enemies tickle each other at best.

Also it seems to me like Chaos runs counter to Absorb because it makes enemies not shoot you to empower it, I mean that's just how I've experienced it in my time using Nyx so if I'm wrong or have been unlucky about it please do let me know.

I personally want to see frames have more of a self-contained interplay of their abilities than having 4 abilities that may or may not work together well.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

29 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Also it seems to me like Chaos runs counter to Absorb because it makes enemies not shoot you to empower it, I mean that's just how I've experienced it in my time using Nyx so if I'm wrong or have been unlucky about it please do let me know.

Yeh I think they could definitely add on to the abilities but I don't think they should be changed. As I said before requires a bit of practice to use well, other than pressing 2 to remove armour. Chaos for example absolutely trivializes Mobile Defense but in order to do so you don't just cast it when you're at the target. INSTEAD you abuse the enemy spawn limit by casting Chaos as you travel to your objective. Net result is that enemies will attack each other as you move through and then completely forget they are when it wears off, leaving them miles away from the objective and you get to snooze till you can move on. Similarly Absorb is an incredibly powerful DPS ability if you use a spectre to fire into it, which is why Chaos doesn't interfere with it's effectiveness but again you have to learn these things, you don't just pick her and play well straight off the bat. Things could be added like "damage bonus for enemies under Chaos's effect so that you can use your 2 to strip their defenses and have them actually kill each other, that sort of thing. But overall she's a very strong frame if not very thematic.