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How should Nyx be fixed..?


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6 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Psychic Bolts needs to be her Helminth Donation Ability

not Mind Control

 

that'll fix her for me

Mate that would be amazing. Imagine adding that on some of the other frames. Might be a bit too strong tbh.

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4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

That's cos most of the posts here are from players who don't play Nyx... I can tell that much just from the things they say that highlight they don't know how to use her.

No, those posts I have been seeing are from people who call themselves Nyx mains.

Seriously, why are you so hell bent on not wanting frames to be improved? 

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I have a task for all those who want to see a Nyx rework:

1. Build your own Nyx and get strength to 150%

2. Exchange her 1 with Khoras Ensnare from Helminth

3. Build her a bit tanky (adaptation)

4. Play steel path

Then come back here and tell me that she needs a rework or is not fun to play. When an Accolade pops up, you Ensnare him, strip him of shield and armor and kill it in 2 hits. If that is not fun or strong, I dont really know. She is my go-to frame for Steel Path and everyone who met my Nyx, wanted to build one as well. And they are all having fun with her and cannot understand that there are people who don't like her or think she is weak. Hell, most don't even know that she not only strips armor, but all defenses (shields + auras) as well. Ever met that annoying coin bearer in Corpus maps in steel path? He has a lot of shields. One cast of Nyxs 2 and he is dead in 1 or 2 hits.

People who play vs lvl 20 mobs and enjoy one-shotting everything with Embers or Volts 4 dont have the same feeling with Nyx and might think of her as weak. Like everything in warframe, Nyx is a tool. And if you use a screwdriver to saw a piece of wood, it might look like the screwdriver is useless.

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5 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

I have a task for all those who want to see a Nyx rework:

1. Build your own Nyx and get strength to 150%

2. Exchange her 1 with Khoras Ensnare from Helminth

3. Build her a bit tanky (adaptation)

4. Play steel path

Then come back here and tell me that she needs a rework or is not fun to play. When an Accolade pops up, you Ensnare him, strip him of shield and armor and kill it in 2 hits. If that is not fun or strong, I dont really know. She is my go-to frame for Steel Path and everyone who met my Nyx, wanted to build one as well. And they are all having fun with her and cannot understand that there are people who don't like her or think she is weak. Hell, most don't even know that she not only strips armor, but all defenses (shields + auras) as well. Ever met that annoying coin bearer in Corpus maps in steel path? He has a lot of shields. One cast of Nyxs 2 and he is dead in 1 or 2 hits.

People who play vs lvl 20 mobs and enjoy one-shotting everything with Embers or Volts 4 dont have the same feeling with Nyx and might think of her as weak. Like everything in warframe, Nyx is a tool. And if you use a screwdriver to saw a piece of wood, it might look like the screwdriver is useless.

Stop using Helminth as an excuse. If a frame needs helminth to be usable, then there is something wrong with that Warframe. 

What most people want is her 1 to be actually a viable choice instead of being helminth fodder. I bet you don’t even use mind control rarely or at all in high level. 

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7 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

I have a task for all those who want to see a Nyx rework:

1. Build your own Nyx and get strength to 150%

2. Exchange her 1 with Khoras Ensnare from Helminth

3. Build her a bit tanky (adaptation)

4. Play steel path

Then come back here and tell me that she needs a rework or is not fun to play. When an Accolade pops up, you Ensnare him, strip him of shield and armor and kill it in 2 hits. If that is not fun or strong, I dont really know. She is my go-to frame for Steel Path and everyone who met my Nyx, wanted to build one as well. And they are all having fun with her and cannot understand that there are people who don't like her or think she is weak. Hell, most don't even know that she not only strips armor, but all defenses (shields + auras) as well. Ever met that annoying coin bearer in Corpus maps in steel path? He has a lot of shields. One cast of Nyxs 2 and he is dead in 1 or 2 hits.

People who play vs lvl 20 mobs and enjoy one-shotting everything with Embers or Volts 4 dont have the same feeling with Nyx and might think of her as weak. Like everything in warframe, Nyx is a tool. And if you use a screwdriver to saw a piece of wood, it might look like the screwdriver is useless.

Awesome description, I like Nyx too, don't play her all the time but find her kit is good, I use her 2nd 3rd and 4th skill in different way's.

3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Stop using Helminth as an excuse. If a frame needs helminth to be usable, then there is something wrong with that Warframe. 

What most people want is her 1 to be actually a viable choice instead of being helminth fodder. I bet you don’t even use mind control rarely or at all in high level. 

I don't see it as an excuse, in a way a lot of frames have that one skill a player doesn't use or suits their play style so DE gave us a way to change it to suit our needs and our game,

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3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Quick tip: If you want to have a discussion with someone don't write an essay, I mean I have to eat today as well, don't need to spend all that time reading a load of waffle.

... says the person on paragraph 1 of their 8-paragraph, 478-word long reply. Right. 

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

This is a games forum not a quantum physics discussion. Seeing as half of your post is this patronising attempt if you cut that out you could probably get it down to half an essay instead. And more importantly you wouldn't be patronising. Note please, I'm not being patronising, I'm being sarcastic because you were patronising me.

Interesting how you had the self-awareness to catch yourself being patronizing, but still lacked enough of it to realize that trying to pre-emptively defend yourself would only draw further attention to it. The problem with this entire little tirade of yours is that your complaints fit your own behavior better than anyone else's on this thread: you talk about not having the time to reply, yet have filled this thread with dozens of pointlessly argumentative posts, and your accusations of condescension fit pretty much all of those posts, your current one included, to a T. Clearly, you have nothing better to do except argue with and down-talk other people on this thread, so might as well drop the act. Who knows, you could even save precious time by doing so!

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

1st point: Independent statistics doesn't mean the frame's bad, it means less people pick it and that's ok. It's called diversity, not everyone likes the same things.

That's not how statistics work. If the frame's pick rate were within a certain number of standard deviations from the mean, that'd be fine, but Nyx is an outlier, a frame whose pick rate is exceptionally poor. Not everyone likes the same things, but then again, sometimes most people dislike the same thing for a reason, and there are plenty of reasons for that cited on this very thread, which you've spent immense amounts of time and effort trying to shout over.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

2nd point: Banshee can be used lazily that's true but you make me laugh saying that's all it's used for. I'm sure those players who enjoy playing a Savage Silence build would love to disagree.

Disagree to what? Their disagreement would be irrelevant to the fact that Banshee can be played lazily and often is, hence her most common known contributions. She can be played interestingly, as can even Inaros if you choose to build him a certain way, but that's irrelevant.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

And again, that's my point, so what if a majority enjoys using the frame? You have over 40 others to pick from. Who are you to ruin their fun?

Ruin their fun... how? By suggesting a rework to their frame? I main Trinity and, despite loving her to bits, would absolutely be fine with a rework to her, including one that would nerf some of her aspects if necessary.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I don't use Zephyr, do you see me saying it should be reworked? No, cos I know players DO enjoy using Zephyr, just as some enjoy using Nyx.

And this is one of the many reasons I'm thankful you're never going to be allowed near any game's design, because Zephyr did in fact just get a rework, and so because she was overwhelmingly unpopular. Turns out a handful of people liking a bad frame isn't an excuse to never change it.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

3rd point: As I've stated before, the only thing that really needs work is the augments.

Says who, you?

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Thematically? That's a different argument, sure she could do with fitting the theme better. But in all honesty a few added synergies to the augments is all that's needed, not a rework.

Ah, so she does need to change, then, but only in a way that you exclusively get to dictate. I see.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

If anything it's her 1st ability that lets her down but let's be honest for a second, how many bad 1st abilities are in the game right now? Used Frost's Freeze ability lately? Or perhaps Ember's fireball? Yeh me neither.

So because some older frames have bad 1 abilities that are usually weaker versions of another ability... that needs to never change? What? What kind of argument from apathy is this?

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

4th point: patronising waffle, moving on. At no point did you say anything useful.

"I can't write a convincing response here, so I might as well just handwave it and hope no-one notices."

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

5th point: The majority of players in THIS THREAD(because that's what we're discussing in) are not Nyx players and the ones that are have mainly brought up thematic suggestions. 

And? You keep insisting on trying to dismiss other people and their feedback, but why? At the end of the day, you're not moving discussion forward, you're just trying to throw your weight around and attempting to silence other people giving valid feedback, presumably because you believe this will give you the sole right to change Nyx. Spoiler alert: it won't, and in fact your approach here I'd argue is a pretty definite sign that anyone at DE who does decide to rework Nyx should explicitly not follow your advice.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

6th point: I would like you to list all the frames that have 4 GOOD abilities please.

Ash, Baruuk, Garuda, Gauss, Harrow, Hildryn, Mirage, Nezha, Nidus, Nova, Oberon, Protea, Revenant, Rhino, Saryn, Wisp, and Xaku. Why do you ask?

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You keep using statistics as your point but the fun thing is, that just means if it's used a lot it appeals to the casual player and the casual player generally prefers lazy playstyles and let me reiterate, that's not healthy for the game.

"If something's popular, that means it's liked by bad people!"

Yeah, good luck with that elitist attitude, I'm sure it'll get you far.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

By your logic Wukong does not need a rework right? Even though ONLY ONE ABILITY is used that makes the frame popular. The other 3 abilities cheerfully ignored(unless the player wants to afk with their clone instead of playing the game) and that's not healthy game play. 

It doesn't sound like you're playing Wukong quite right, since his clone is useful in most missions, his 2 is tremendously strong for mobility and as a panic button, and his 3 gives him a lot of extra durability. I do think he has flaws and could use some changes, plus something to make his 4 interesting, but I do think he's also in a pretty healthy place. The stats and general player feedback also appear to support this, so really, I'd say the issue here is less that statistics are somehow not a real science, and more that you don't like statistics when they don't personally agree with you.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Have a nice day. If you choose to reply, please don't be patronising again or write an essay, I haven't got that many hours in the day.

I'm sure you'll somehow find the time to fit me into your busy schedule of attacking other users on this thread. Perhaps if you extended to others the respect you expect to be given to yourself, you could save yourself the time and energy you value so.

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5 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Quick tip: If you want to have a discussion with someone don't write an essay

Problem is you don’t want to have a discussion about this at all, you just want give your opinion and then shout down anyone who disagrees with you. That may not be your intention, but that’s how you’re coming across in this entire thread.

Just my 2 cents from a neutral perspective.

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4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Mate that would be amazing. Imagine adding that on some of the other frames. Might be a bit too strong tbh.

While it does use a mod slot, shuriken is a part of Helminth. I use it to make some weapons usable in SP against specific units, since lets face it, it's really only the Grineer/armored units that matter. Everything else is made of paper.

Only issue is, the augment is still bugged.

Helminth also already has one other actually op option, so honestly, makes no real difference balance wise other than adding more useful options.

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10 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Most frames need a rework  

Helminth was added  

I don’t know what else you need to hear.

That's not proof tho.

Tell me at which point the devs said they won't rework anything because of Helminth.

Which is by the way already untrue since they just reworked Zephyr and bunch of other Warframe abilities.

Edited by JackHargreav
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56 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It doesn't sound like you're playing Wukong quite right, since his clone is useful in most missions,   [...]   but I do think he's also in a pretty healthy place.

Congratulations. :clap: You have revealed your true colours and shown what type of player you truly are.

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Ash, Baruuk, Garuda, Gauss, Harrow, Hildryn, Mirage, Nezha, Nidus, Nova, Oberon, Protea, Revenant, Rhino, Saryn, Wisp, and Xaku. Why do you ask?

I'm just going to pick two:

Ash's 3 (Teleport) is broken, has been for a long time.

Spoiler

 

Baruuk's 1 (Elude) is hated and ignored by many players. It is also rendered irrelevant to his entire kit if you use his 3 (Desolate Hands).

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

That's not how statistics work.

I understand Nyx may not be popular, but perhaps Nyx Prime is a niche market? "The best kept secret" sort of deal. I have it on good authority that the players that enjoy using her are endgame, high-MR players.

Spoiler

d9uexU3.png

 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Problem is you don’t want to have a discussion about this at all, you just want give your opinion and then shout down anyone who disagrees with you. That may not be your intention, but that’s how you’re coming across in this entire thread.

Just my 2 cents from a neutral perspective.

And yet I've continually entertained the idea of reworking her augments and her 1st ability... And while I can appreciate the point of view. I take issue not with discussing potential changes to Nyx but with discussing potential change to Nyx WITH PLAYERS WHO DON'T EVER USE HER...  3 of the people I have disagreed with or been disagreed with by, admitted they don't play Nyx. Even the OP of the thread admits he doesn't play Nyx. Would you ask for advice about upgrading your PC from the postman?

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

Congratulations. :clap: You have revealed your true colours and shown what type of player you truly are.

... I'm a bad person because I pointed out Wukong has more than one useful ability? Care to explain?

1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

I'm just going to pick two:

Ash's 3 (Teleport) is broken, has been for a long time.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And despite this, it is still useful as a mobility tool and for its augment, even with the bug.

1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

Baruuk's 1 (Elude) is hated and ignored by many players. It is also rendered irrelevant to his entire kit if you use his 3 (Desolate Hands).

And is still used in range builds nonetheless to provide total evasion.

1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

I understand Nyx may not be popular, but perhaps Nyx Prime is a niche market? "The best kept secret" sort of deal. I have it on good authority that the players that enjoy using her are endgame, high-MR players.

  Reveal hidden contents

d9uexU3.png

 

... among which only a minuscule amount play Nyx, so clearly, she is highly unpopular even then. It is both pointlessly elitist and completely counterproductive to try to paint a frame as a "high-MR player" frame, as frames are meant to appeal to more than just MR30.

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2 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Awesome description, I like Nyx too, don't play her all the time but find her kit is good, I use her 2nd 3rd and 4th skill in different way's.

I don't see it as an excuse, in a way a lot of frames have that one skill a player doesn't use or suits their play style so DE gave us a way to change it to suit our needs and our game,

Out of all “Nyx Defenders” I have seen here. No one praises her mind control. People see Nyx as a general debuffer, which is sad in my opinion. 

Saying Nyx is good only makes DE keep ignoring her in her sad state.

A Warframe with a bad ability is still a bad Waframe or as I would like to say “Incomplete”. Helminth or no helminth.

Edited by DrivaMain
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2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

... says the person on paragraph 1 of their 8-paragraph, 478-word long reply. Right. 

Interesting how you had the self-awareness to catch yourself being patronizing, but still lacked enough of it to realize that trying to pre-emptively defend yourself would only draw further attention to it. The problem with this entire little tirade of yours is that your complaints fit your own behavior better than anyone else's on this thread: you talk about not having the time to reply, yet have filled this thread with dozens of pointlessly argumentative posts, and your accusations of condescension fit pretty much all of those posts, your current one included, to a T. Clearly, you have nothing better to do except argue with and down-talk other people on this thread, so might as well drop the act. Who knows, you could even save precious time by doing so!

That's not how statistics work. If the frame's pick rate were within a certain number of standard deviations from the mean, that'd be fine, but Nyx is an outlier, a frame whose pick rate is exceptionally poor. Not everyone likes the same things, but then again, sometimes most people dislike the same thing for a reason, and there are plenty of reasons for that cited on this very thread, which you've spent immense amounts of time and effort trying to shout over.

Disagree to what? Their disagreement would be irrelevant to the fact that Banshee can be played lazily and often is, hence her most common known contributions. She can be played interestingly, as can even Inaros if you choose to build him a certain way, but that's irrelevant.

Ruin their fun... how? By suggesting a rework to their frame? I main Trinity and, despite loving her to bits, would absolutely be fine with a rework to her, including one that would nerf some of her aspects if necessary.

And this is one of the many reasons I'm thankful you're never going to be allowed near any game's design, because Zephyr did in fact just get a rework, and so because she was overwhelmingly unpopular. Turns out a handful of people liking a bad frame isn't an excuse to never change it.

Says who, you?

Ah, so she does need to change, then, but only in a way that you exclusively get to dictate. I see.

So because some older frames have bad 1 abilities that are usually weaker versions of another ability... that needs to never change? What? What kind of argument from apathy is this?

"I can't write a convincing response here, so I might as well just handwave it and hope no-one notices."

And? You keep insisting on trying to dismiss other people and their feedback, but why? At the end of the day, you're not moving discussion forward, you're just trying to throw your weight around and attempting to silence other people giving valid feedback, presumably because you believe this will give you the sole right to change Nyx. Spoiler alert: it won't, and in fact your approach here I'd argue is a pretty definite sign that anyone at DE who does decide to rework Nyx should explicitly not follow your advice.

Ash, Baruuk, Garuda, Gauss, Harrow, Hildryn, Mirage, Nezha, Nidus, Nova, Oberon, Protea, Revenant, Rhino, Saryn, Wisp, and Xaku. Why do you ask?

"If something's popular, that means it's liked by bad people!"

Yeah, good luck with that elitist attitude, I'm sure it'll get you far.

It doesn't sound like you're playing Wukong quite right, since his clone is useful in most missions, his 2 is tremendously strong for mobility and as a panic button, and his 3 gives him a lot of extra durability. I do think he has flaws and could use some changes, plus something to make his 4 interesting, but I do think he's also in a pretty healthy place. The stats and general player feedback also appear to support this, so really, I'd say the issue here is less that statistics are somehow not a real science, and more that you don't like statistics when they don't personally agree with you.

I'm sure you'll somehow find the time to fit me into your busy schedule of attacking other users on this thread. Perhaps if you extended to others the respect you expect to be given to yourself, you could save yourself the time and energy you value so.

1st point: Yawn..

2nd point: I realise how statistics work thankyou but what you don't grasp is that it's OK to have frames that are outliers as you put it. That doesn't make the frame bad, it means that fewer players use that type of playstyle and again, THAT'S OK.

3rd point: Not sure what your point is there, really didn't say anything of value.

4th point: Ruin their fun because they are having fun using the frame THE WAY IT IS. Is that so difficult to understand? I mean really?

5th point: You need to realise that most frame reworks are motivated by greed(you'd probably prefer I use the word avarice?) not an interest to seeing the frame used more popularly, what you think it's just coincidence that they released the shiny new Harrier skin at the same time and a bundle that cost a decent chunk of plat?

6th point: Yes that is my opinion, I'm allowed to have one. 

7th point: Yawn..

8th point: No my point is that those frames are still popular despite having one bad ability.

9th point: The feeling is mutual so let this be out last exchange.

10th point: I haven't dismissed other people, I've dismissed only those who have no friggin idea how to use the frame. It's the same principle as a builder ignoring a IT support expert who tries to tell him how to construct a house.

11th point: Because by your logic we should rework every other frame. Sounds stupid doesn't it?

12th point: LOL I know how to use Wukong thanks. I'm making a point of how your average casual player uses Wukong, not how I or any other player who knows how to play the frame does so. Wukong is popular because players can afk with him. Don't believe me, check the threads every other week complaining about it happening in games. Again I say, let's just remove Cloudwalker and see if his usage plummets(It will).

Last point: Yep managed to finally read ALL your quotes although again half of it is waffle I can safely ignore as it has nothing to do with the conversation. I don't think we'll ever agree mate. And believe it or not, THAT'S OK AS WELL. A strange concept I know.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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4 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Out of all “Nyx Defenders” I have seen here. No one praises her mind control. People see Nyx as a general debuffer, which is sad in my opinion. 

Saying Nyx is good only makes DE keep ignoring her in her sad state.

A Warframe with a bad ability is still a bad Waframe or as I would like to say “Incomplete”. Helminth or no helminth.

The disappointing thing with Mind control, even less than the fact it's a weak ability(because let's face it, many frames have a weak ability), is that it's supposed to be the main thematic ability and it doesn't live up to it's billing.

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3 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

While it does use a mod slot, shuriken is a part of Helminth. I use it to make some weapons usable in SP against specific units, since lets face it, it's really only the Grineer/armored units that matter. Everything else is made of paper.

Only issue is, the augment is still bugged.

Helminth also already has one other actually op option, so honestly, makes no real difference balance wise other than adding more useful options.

Yeh Shuriken does the job for sure, the only reason I feel Nyx's 2nd ability would be slighty OP is because it's radial and therefore much more coverage than Ash's. And yeh you're not wrong, several of the abilities infact are very OP currently.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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4 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Out of all “Nyx Defenders” I have seen here. No one praises her mind control. People see Nyx as a general debuffer, which is sad in my opinion. 

Saying Nyx is good only makes DE keep ignoring her in her sad state.

A Warframe with a bad ability is still a bad Waframe or as I would like to say “Incomplete”. Helminth or no helminth.

Nyx is good....that's what we're saying...because we play her. 

Most frames have one ability that isn't used that much, that's just how it is. You're never going to reach some unattainable paradise where every frame has abilities you press in a 1 2 3 4 succession....that's child's play ability spam disguised as "good frame synergy" and just creates "cookie cutter" builds. 

And it takes nothing away from you to occasionally use mind control in battle, it's a specter that takes fire away from being directed at you solely, providing a good distraction. Yes, it could use a rework but in the meantime you can use it or not.

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10 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Out of all “Nyx Defenders” I have seen here. No one praises her mind control. People see Nyx as a general debuffer, which is sad in my opinion. 

Saying Nyx is good only makes DE keep ignoring her in her sad state.

A Warframe with a bad ability is still a bad Waframe or as I would like to say “Incomplete”. Helminth or no helminth.

A lot of frames are good, some are awesome but at least having one ability less than the others makes it even better to know which one to dump for a Helminth ability.

Just reworking a whole Warframe willy nilly just ends up making a mess that some players will still disagree with.

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2 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

A lot of frames are good, some are awesome but at least having one ability less than the others makes it even better to know which one to dump for a Helminth ability.

I'd argue that shouldn't be the case, Helminth shouldn't be a justification for every frame having one junk ability.

Leaving things in a sorry state just because of Helminth is a bad and complacent mentality, no I don't think Nyx needs a sweeping rework, but her 1 is something that needs review along with her Augments.

All abilities don't have to be outrageously good, but no ability should be miserably bad just for the sake of being miserably bad and replacable.

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3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

1st point: Yawn..

You might think feigning disinterest disguises your inability to provide a valid answer, but it doesn't. The statistics are not on your side, might as well deal with it.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

2nd point: I realise how statistics thankyou but what you don't grasp is that it's OK to have frames that are outliers as you put it. That doesn't make the frame bad, it means that fewer players use that type of playstyle and again, THAT'S OK.

If that's how you think outliers work, then clearly you do not understand statistics. As this thread shows, Nyx isn't unpopular because her playstyle somehow only appeals to a very small number of players, she's unpopular because her kit just kinda sucks compared to most other frames.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

3rd point: Not sure what your point is there, really didn't say anything of value.

"I don't understand this, therefore it can't possibly make sense!"

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

4th point: Ruin their fun because they are having fun using the frame THE WAY IT IS. Is that so difficult to understand? I mean really?

It's not, it just means your fun comes at the expense of other people's, and is all the more reason not to pay you heed. If the only way you can have fun with a warframe is if it stays exactly the way it is forever, then all you're showing is a sense of entitlement, rather than a genuine love for the frame. 

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

5th point: You need to realise that most frame reworks are motivated by greed not an interest to seeing the frame used more popularly, what you think it's just coincidence that they released the shiny new Harrier skin at the same time and a bundle that cost a decent chunk of plat?

I don't particularly care if greed is the motivator, Zephyr's rework was successful and largely praised even by those who played her prior to her rework. Attacking DE's motivations to rework frames does nothing against the fact that some frames are in genuine need of a rework, and you are in no position to question anyone else's motivations on this thread when your own behavior here has been motivated exclusively by entitlement and blind selfishness.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

6th point: Yes that is my opinion, I'm allowed to have one. 

You're certainly allowed to have all the opinions you want, but you're not entitled to have others agree with them, especially when your opinions are crap.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

7th point: Yawn..

7th point... to what? Why even waste time typing such a vacuous reply to a point you did not even cite?

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

8th point: No my point is that those frames are still popular despite having one bad ability.

... yet Nyx is unpopular, and so are some of the frames I've cited (along with some of the frames I haven't), so your point has exactly zero relevance to the discussion at hand.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

9th point: The feeling is mutual so let this be out last exchange.

This sounds more like a desperate attempt to have the last word than a genuine attempt to part ways civilly. I don't even really see how you expect to do this when you clearly still intend to stay on this thread and bully people. I guess it's not as fun when the people talk back?

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

10th point: I haven't dismissed other people, I've dismissed only those who have no friggin idea how to use the frame. It's the same principle as a builder ignoring a IT support expert who tries to tell him how to construct a house.

Except you've accused everyone who disagrees with you of being bad at Nyx, so that has in fact been your primary way of dismissing other people. I'm not even the only person to point this out on this thread, so I'm not sure who you're trying to fool.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

11th point: Because by your logic we should rework every other frame. Sounds stupid doesn't it?

Not really, I think many frames could use improvements. Some frames should probably be prioritized for reworks before others, but at the end of the day I both accept and welcome the fact that Warframe is a game in constant development that isn't afraid of updating old content. Perhaps it's time you accepted that too.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

12th point: LOL I know how to use Wukong thanks. I'm making a point of how your average casual player uses Wukong, not how I or any other player who knows how to play the frame. Wukong is popular because players can afk with him. Don't believe me, check the threads every other week complaining about it happening in games.

If you believe Wukong has only one useful ability, then you very clearly do not know how to use Wukong. You may also have to enligthen me on those threads you mention, as I check these forums on a fairly regular basis and none really caught my attention.

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Last point: Yep managed to finally read ALL your quotes although again half of it is waffle I can safely ignore as it has nothing to do with the conversation. I don't think we'll ever agree mate. And believe it or not, THAT'S OK AS WELL. A strange concept I know.

If only you believed in what you were saying here, you could probably save yourself and others a lot of trouble. The problem is that for all this sanctimony, you don't actually believe in respecting disagreement, you only believe people should respect your disagreement, even if you clearly do not respect theirs. People who think it's OK to disagree generally don't go around bashing every other person in a thread and accusing them of being bad players simply because of a difference in opinion over how to change Nyx.

17 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Nyx is good....that's what we're saying...because we play her. 

Care to share your total time played and Nyx/Nyx Prime usage statistics? Because Nyx's total play rate on Playstation is still an abysmal 0.6%, so at that point it is more likely that the tiny handful of people who think she has no problems are deluded, and it's not everyone else who's wrong.

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33 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

And yet I've continually entertained the idea of reworking her augments and her 1st ability... And while I can appreciate the point of view. I take issue not with discussing potential changes to Nyx but with discussing potential change to Nyx WITH PLAYERS WHO DON'T EVER USE HER...  3 of the people I have disagreed with or been disagreed with by, admitted they don't play Nyx. Even the OP of the thread admits he doesn't play Nyx. Would you ask for advice about upgrading your PC from the postman?

That’s a valid point regarding players like the OP who admit to never having tried her. But did you ever consider maybe some of these players aren’t using her because they have tried and didn’t like her? So they can still be speaking from experience.

I get where you’re coming from and didn’t mean to sound harsh in my reply, I just think it’s important to respect other’s perspectives.

Your opinions on Nyx are entirely subjective and specific to your niche playstyle. A lot of people simply will not see eye to eye with you on that.

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This subject has been brought up so many times. 

Nyx works well enough at present. The new psychic bolts is devastatingly effective. Everything else pretty much is as it was. The issue is she now has competing requirements to maximize ability effectiveness. In other words, you have to give up range for her CC to power her new PB. 

That means Nyx has two problems. Less range for her (soft) defensive abilities and her innate defense is practically nil--125 armor means bupkiss on it's own. 

I'd like to see her CC made harder and I'd like to see more attention paid to her passive defense. Also, since DE seems intent on giving her more offense, I'd like to see MC reworked so it's more effective with less pointless hassle in getting it working. 

Oh, and I don't even want to hear anything about Helminth. It was not a good idea and never should have happened. 

So. 

Mind control. Quit pissing around with fiddly nonsense and just boost the damage 1000% and call it good. That's damage; it'll kill stuff and be an asset on the battlefield. Then add an aggro component to the MC victim so it can actually contribute to both CC and Nyx' defense. It's a berserker unit under Nyx' aegis that will inevitably expire when MC does. Sucks to be mind controlled, yes? Yes. This appeals on several levels. 

Psychic Bolts. Fine as it is now. 

Chaos. Mostly fine as it is now. Maybe kick the base range up 15% to compensate for loss due to PB modding strategies. 

Absorb. Make the assimilate mod baseline. Change the mod so it either allows full runspeed or maybe even more range under the hamsterball. Heck, make mods for both. There's your choices and it makes Nyx more flexible on the battlefield. 

That passive. It could be left alone in light of the stuff above, but it should actually do something useful all the time--or at least all the time Nyx is actually in combat. I have a number of thoughts on this, but the simplest would be to give her an accuracy debuff like Titania has on her pixie-form, but with it affecting enemies under the effects of Chaos. Or you could make it like Gara's hard CC passive, just as an accuracy debuff from being too close to Nyx. Latter is simpler and certainly less fiddly. 

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As much as I hate multi-quoting, this is getting annoying so here we go.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

You might think feigning disinterest disguises your inability to provide a valid answer, but it doesn't. The statistics are not on your side, might as well deal with it.

Incase you hadn't figured it out by now, that's my response when you decide to try and act all superior

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

If that's how you think outliers work, then clearly you do not understand statistics. As this thread shows, Nyx isn't unpopular because her playstyle somehow only appeals to a very small number of players, she's unpopular because her kit just kinda sucks compared to most other frames.

It has nothing to do with me not knowing statistics, it has to do entirely with the fact that I understand that a frame being niche isn't always a bad thing.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

"I don't understand this, therefore it can't possibly make sense!"

No I understood, you just didn't make a useful point.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It's not, it just means your fun comes at the expense of other people's, and is all the more reason not to pay you heed. If the only way you can have fun with a warframe is if it stays exactly the way it is forever, then all you're showing is a sense of entitlement, rather than a genuine love for the frame. 

Incorrect seeing as other players enjoy Nyx the way she is as well, clearly it's not just me being entitled. 

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I don't particularly care if greed is the motivator, Zephyr's rework was successful and largely praised even by those who played her prior to her rework. Attacking DE's motivations to rework frames does nothing against the fact that some frames are in genuine need of a rework, and you are in no position to question anyone else's motivations on this thread when your own behavior here has been motivated exclusively by entitlement and blind selfishness.

Neither are you. Remember that because you seem to think it's your way or the highway as well.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

You're certainly allowed to have all the opinions you want, but you're not entitled to have others agree with them, especially when your opinions are crap.

The same goes for you, you need to understand that.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

7th point... to what? Why even waste time typing such a vacuous reply to a point you did not even cite?

See above for my explanation about how I respond to your acts of superiority.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

... yet Nyx is unpopular, and so are some of the frames I've cited (along with some of the frames I haven't), so your point has exactly zero relevance to the discussion at hand.

What was it you said to me? I don't understand the point so therefore it doesn't make sense?

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

This sounds more like a desperate attempt to have the last word than a genuine attempt to part ways civilly. I don't even really see how you expect to do this when you clearly still intend to stay on this thread and bully people. I guess it's not as fun when the people talk back?

Actually I was pointing out that we won't ever agree and suggesting it was a waste of time. If you want to continue arguing then by all means we can but timezones mean I'll be logging off soon anyway.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Except you've accused everyone who disagrees with you of being bad at Nyx, so that has in fact been your primary way of dismissing other people. I'm not even the only person to point this out on this thread, so I'm not sure who you're trying to fool.

No I've read their comments about her abilities and uses and used that to determine whether or not they know what they're doing. Just as you assumed I didn't know how to play Wukong, although in that instance I was making a point of how casuals play Wukong.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Not really, I think many frames could use improvements. Some frames should probably be prioritized for reworks before others, but at the end of the day I both accept and welcome the fact that Warframe is a game in constant development that isn't afraid of updating old content. Perhaps it's time you accepted that too.

It's a separate conversation but personally I would prefer they expend their efforts towards creating meaningful content instead of churning out yet more frames or reworked current ones. 

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

If you believe Wukong has only one useful ability, then you very clearly do not know how to use Wukong. You may also have to enligthen me on those threads you mention, as I check these forums on a fairly regular basis and none really caught my attention.

You're deliberatly missing the point to try and make me look bad. I am making the point that Wukong is popular because you can afk with him and watch netflix and you can also cloudwalk everywhere, cheese spy, sabotage, etc and hell even wait at the spawn till the objectives done and then zoom to the end. There have been numerous threads of complaints about it. You know where the search bar is, go look for yourself. 

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

If only you believed in what you were saying here, you could probably save yourself and others a lot of trouble. The problem is that for all this sanctimony, you don't actually believe in respecting disagreement, you only believe people should respect your disagreement, even if you clearly do not respect theirs. People who think it's OK to disagree generally don't go around bashing every other person in a thread and accusing them of being bad players simply because of a difference in opinion over how to change Nyx.

Neither do you, you came in here attacking someone before me for no real reason, swinging your opinion in his face. Now you're doing the same with me and guess what, I'm returning the favour.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Care to share your total time played and Nyx/Nyx Prime usage statistics? Because Nyx's total play rate on Playstation is still an abysmal 0.6%, so at that point it is more likely that the tiny handful of people who think she has no problems are deluded, and it's not everyone else who's wrong.

I will. Here you go.
FS6bNeC.png

Why don't you show us all your extensive usage of Nyx? 

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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