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Nekros and his summons


Draelocke
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I'd love to see some kind of augment [or talent, hello new system] to modify his summons. I've always hated to see them and I even hate to use them, because they look exactly like regular enemies, but in a slightly different hue; maybe with a beam of light connecting to them with [Shield of Shadows]. I did a 60 minute survival earlier and actually apologized to my team once I had to break them out for survivability. Here's around 20 ideas on how to change them:

 

1) mini-me, they keep their form, but the shadows are a fraction of their current size to differentiate them further. Should work for everything but rollers. without blocking view.

2) Do away with the individual summons and make a new model, it's size and potential depending on how many souls were gathered. I'm imagining tendrils coming out of it, same effect, new format.

3) I guess I only really have two suggestions, but I'd love to be able to modify my summons.

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They already look different and cant block view unless you're up against a wall and somehow they got pulled in a pack upfront.
What they should do is not eat bullets and the last option, have a mandachord+simulacrum style ui where you manually set priority and ai type from aggro, survival/arena, defense and buff/drone types.

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Revenant's thralls have a graphical effect that floats over their heads that kind of looks like a marionette control bar. Having some kind of effect floating over Nekros' summons might help. I definitely think they're enemies *all* the time. 

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6 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just don’t cast his 4 then. It became irrelevant when adaptation was added.

And then you do a high level mission and get 1shot before Adaptation could be stacked. :P

Besides, stacking both it and Shield of Shadows would make Nekros even tankier than before.

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51 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

And then you do a high level mission and get 1shot before Adaptation could be stacked. :P

Besides, stacking both it and Shield of Shadows would make Nekros even tankier than before.

Health Conversion exists.

I can solo Steel Path with Nekros. He doesn’t die in 1 hit.

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16 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Health Conversion exists.

I can solo Steel Path with Nekros. He doesn’t die in 1 hit.

Even with full Health Conversion stacks plus a max Umbral Fiber, you're still only at about 85% damage reduction. Meanwhile, with Shield of Shadows plus his base unmodded armor, you have 93% damage reduction, which becomes 99.3% damage reduction with max Adaptation stacks. Further, the summons can also divert all status effects away from Nekros.

Edited by xZeromusx
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7 minutes ago, xZeromusx said:

Even with full Health Conversion stacks plus a max Umbral Fiber, you're still only at about 85% damage reduction. Meanwhile, with Shield of Shadows plus his base unmodded armor, you have 93% damage reduction, which becomes 99.3% damage reduction with max Adaptation stacks. Further, the summons can also divert all status effects away from Nekros.

You know 90% DR is more than capable of helping a frame survive high levels, right. I’m gonna assume that health conversion, Umbral fiber, and Adaptation gives 93%. Thats more than enough. Also you consider the negatives of shadows which is they don’t do anything but just exist, and they take up slots in the enemy spawn limit so their actively reducing how much loot you could potentially get. Yeah, Shadows aren’t worth using anymore.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

You know 90% DR is more than capable of helping a frame survive high levels, right. I’m gonna assume that health conversion, Umbral fiber, and Adaptation gives 93%. Thats more than enough. Also you consider the negatives of shadows which is they don’t do anything but just exist, and they take up slots in the enemy spawn limit so their actively reducing how much loot you could potentially get. Yeah, Shadows aren’t worth using anymore.

Well, full Adaptation stacks, Umbral Fiber, and Health Conversion would give you 98.5% damage reduction. You will still get more from Adaptation and Shield of Shadows. 99% before armor which can make it 99.3%.

And again, Shield of Shadows isn't just about DR, but also about redirecting all status effects from Nekros to his shadows. That means no knockdowns, no fire, toxin, electric, gas dots, no nothing. And, you can still use Desecrate with Despoil in the right build. I can't imagine you're hurting that much for loot.

Edited by xZeromusx
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4 hours ago, xZeromusx said:

Well, full Adaptation stacks, Umbral Fiber, and Health Conversion would give you 98.5% damage reduction. You will still get more from Adaptation and Shield of Shadows. 99% before armor which can make it 99.3%.

And again, Shield of Shadows isn't just about DR, but also about redirecting all status effects from Nekros to his shadows. That means no knockdowns, no fire, toxin, electric, gas dots, no nothing. And, you can still use Desecrate with Despoil in the right build. I can't imagine you're hurting that much for loot.

So that’s a 0.8 difference between Augment or no augment.

The purpose of Nekros is to loot. It’s a bit counter productive to be actively choosing to use an ability that interferes with that when the reality is you really don’t need to.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Imagine if DE acted like this when railjack first released. Yall dont like how it play's? Dont play railjack

K

Well there’s a difference between me saying it and DE saying it.

Shadows of the Dead should be a better ability, but it’s currently not so there’s no point in using it.

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5 hours ago, xZeromusx said:

And again, Shield of Shadows isn't just about DR, but also about redirecting all status effects from Nekros to his shadows. That means no knockdowns, no fire, toxin, electric, gas dots, no nothing.

You're forgetting one more key feature: Minions. They're walking aggro sponges, meaning you're not taking 100% of all the bullets, because the enemies are not all focusing on you alone.

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5 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

You're forgetting one more key feature: Minions. They're walking aggro sponges, meaning you're not taking 100% of all the bullets, because the enemies are not all focusing on you alone.

That too, so effectively, their damage mitigation is above the possible 90%.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

One is worst than the other yes, thats not the point. The point is its bad to say regardless for this post...

No, it’s perfectly acceptable. If an ability is bad then everyone has a right to be informed that said ability is bad and should not be used.

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5 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

One is worst than the other yes, thats not the point. The point is its bad to say regardless for this post...

Not really, people legit didnt play railjack to a degree that DE put it as the priority to rework.

Nekros meanwhile got ignored in the feedback that the 1 change was at best worthless and in practice outright negative for his kit as it removes from the corpse pool, is less efficient than 4 and the gameplay mindset of its usecase gets flipped (upclose weak enemy knockdown > upclose to heavy to not be 1% off thus yeet & from afar or higher elevation priority yeet to separate targets > from afar 1 spam to fish 4 heals)... which is less effective than just ceasing to use 1 at all/helminthing it for anything else.

Edited by Andele3025
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6 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Not really, people legit didnt play railjack to a degree that DE put it as the priority to rework

 

12 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

One is worst than the other yes, thats not the point

As said. And this

6 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Nekros meanwhile got ignored in the feedback that the 1 change was at best worthless and in practice outright negative for his kit as it removes from the corpse pool, is less efficient than 4 and the gameplay mindset of its usecase gets flipped (upclose weak enemy knockdown > upclose to heavy to not be 1% off thus yeet & from afar or higher elevation priority yeet to separate targets > from afar 1 spam to fish 4 heals)... which is less effective than just ceasing to use 1 at all/helminthing it for anything else.

And i have no clue what was said here

Edited by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
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10 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

No, it’s perfectly acceptable. If an ability is bad then everyone has a right to be informed that said ability is bad and should not be used.

Flat out saying "dont use it" is not constructive feedback for this purposed rework by any means. Hows that supposed the help the op with their idea to fix Nekros's 4th? 

You have a right to say anything you want, doesnt mean anything you say will be good in any scenario. 

Edited by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
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I wonder every Time that ppl are keep up with stuff like this "dont need shadows, they provide nothing". You not even know the concept of so called "Target overflow" ? 

Lets say you have 7 Shadows up that make 8 Targets for X Enemys so the incoming dmg is 1/8 for your Frame when you have a Pet like Panzer we are now up to 1/9. Now also hit the 90% dmg Redirection, 90% from Adaption and Heath Conversation. Add 3 more Team Mates and now you are down to 1/12 of Targets and also reduce the overall incoming DMG for your Squad. That take not even more Pets into account or Shadows that also Spawn Enemy's that also add Targets to the List. 

This is not even some scary Nerd Voodoo, people use Mechanics like this since years in more competitive Games and some Guys are "whoo what this? Seems fishy... Oo" 

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3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Flat out saying "dont use it" is not constructive feedback for this purposed rework by any means. Hows that supposed the help the op with their idea to fix Nekros's 4th? 

You have a right to say anything you want, doesnt mean anything you say will be good in any scenario. 

Even the OP said that he literally apologized to his squad because he used Shadows. If he’s that apologetic about using it then he just shouldn’t be using. Because ultimately, there’s no practical benefit to using it anymore. At no point is what I’m saying even remotely connected to any idea of “the ability shouldn’t be improved”.

 

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3 hours ago, Core_leon said:

I wonder every Time that ppl are keep up with stuff like this "dont need shadows, they provide nothing". You not even know the concept of so called "Target overflow" ? 

Lets say you have 7 Shadows up that make 8 Targets for X Enemys so the incoming dmg is 1/8 for your Frame when you have a Pet like Panzer we are now up to 1/9. Now also hit the 90% dmg Redirection, 90% from Adaption and Heath Conversation. Add 3 more Team Mates and now you are down to 1/12 of Targets and also reduce the overall incoming DMG for your Squad. That take not even more Pets into account or Shadows that also Spawn Enemy's that also add Targets to the List. 

This is not even some scary Nerd Voodoo, people use Mechanics like this since years in more competitive Games and some Guys are "whoo what this? Seems fishy... Oo" 

An ability that costs 100 energy, has a long cast animation, and requires upkeep needs to provide more than aggro draw.

Especially on a frame who’s tanky enough to not need aggro draw in the first place.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

An ability that costs 100 energy, has a long cast animation, and requires upkeep needs to provide more than aggro draw.

Especially on a frame who’s tanky enough to not need aggro draw in the first place.

Is 100 energy really that significant of a cost? Especially on a frame that can literally roll a loot table twice on dead enemies? Also, people have laid out reasons for why the ability, particularly when augmented, is an amazing ability.

1. Aggro draw

2. Redirecting damage with augment, reaching 90% damage reduction before any other form of damage reduction, meaning unlike many frames, he's able to reach 99%+ damage reduction.

3. Augment also redirects ALL status effects. This even means self inflicted knockdowns from explosive weapons.

Also, you can still get ALL of those benefits while also using Defile and Despoil at 25m range if you just run the right build. So, you shouldn't have ANY issues with energy. But, if you still are, may I suggest using Dispensary + Arcane Energize? Then, not only do you have infinite energy, but also infinite universal ammo to let you to also use Archguns infinitely.

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