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[Corpus Railjack] The new Shield Ospreys' Palpatine attack is absolutely ridiculous.


Chroia
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It has basically no telegraph, as far as I can tell, is hitscan, and does, like, SO much damage and I think a guaranteed Electric DoT, but I make a point of not getting hit by it in the first place whenever possible because have I mentioned SO much damage? ._.

Not asking for it to be nerfed, just feedbacking.
(And verifying that it's intentional, I suppose.)

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11 minutes ago, Thural said:

i guess you don't use sentinels

... Oh, so THAT's the problem?

 

... No, I don't use useless stuff... And no, I don't think its useless because its weak. I've always thought those "companions" to be useless even at the first time they were presented in...  U7, apparently...

 

But no worries, I'm going to take my weakest sentinel there and see how it goes. If it survives, then it'll just confirm my previous post.

Edited by Uhkretor
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1 minute ago, Uhkretor said:

... Oh, so THAT's the problem?

 

... No, I don't use useless stuff... And no, I don't think its useless because its weak. I've always thought those "companions" to be useless even at the first time they were presented in...  U7, apparently...

 

But no worries, I'm going to take my weakest sentinel there and see how it goes. If it survives, then it'll just confirm my previous post.

my full health and shield modded helios prime gets two shot by the electric procs

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2 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... That's your Helios Prime... Not mine.

 

I'll see it for myself if that's really a problem.

last time i checked, sentinels don't have randomized stats

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Those attacks are right out of left field, but they are trivial when players have access to pocket healing (Operator), shield gating, the abuseable mods for shield gating, and AoE weapons. I guess these would be annoying with builds that don't incorporate this stuff, but it's not the end of the world. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

Edited by Voltage
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Shield Ospreys are fine, kind of visually polluted the rays but... okay.

I didn't like the electric bubbles sent telepathically on some railjack missions, I find the concept very ugly, an electric bubble appears in front of me and I keep looking for enemies with electric weapons but there are no enemies ...

if it were like the electric tilesets in jupter it would be simpler to understand, the entire tileset starts flashing with alerts before the room is electrocuted and the pleasant cooldown between each enemy attack. it would become more pleasant

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The electric bubbles are irksome to me as well. There's not really anything you can do about them, so it's basically just "Now is the time on Sprockets when we get small bubbles." They don't kill me, or even really do much beyond the occasional tiny stagger, but there's no gameplay to them. They just irk. 

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21 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Those attacks are right out of left field, but they are trivial when players have access to <snip>

Exactly, which is why I'm explicitly not asking for them to be nerfed.

 

3 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

there's no gameplay to them. They just irk. 

Amen.

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As far as enemies are concerned, I personally like anything that actually manages to draw my attention.  So many entities feel so inconsequential, it's honestly rather refreshing having to look out for something when I'm on those POI's.  (The shield drones do feel like a threat, but they don't feel unmanageable, at least to me.)

 

As for the electric bubbles that seem like they do relatively nothing, I feel like they should reduce the frequency to about 1/3 to 1/6 of what it is now while making their effect stronger with more noticeable visuals and minimally larger AOE.  I would either give them a bit more damage with the stagger, or do something weird like no damage, no stagger, but a 3 second void proc (bullet attractor) or something.

Edited by FlashExe
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10 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... Bad builds lead to quick deaths... I don't seem to have problems with those.

 

9 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... Oh, so THAT's the problem?

 

... No, I don't use useless stuff... And no, I don't think its useless because its weak. I've always thought those "companions" to be useless even at the first time they were presented in...  U7, apparently...

 

But no worries, I'm going to take my weakest sentinel there and see how it goes. If it survives, then it'll just confirm my previous post.

 

9 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... That's your Helios Prime... Not mine.

 

I'll see it for myself if that's really a problem.

Wow.... when they distributed humility, someone instead took a double dose of arrogance...

But i want to comment this:

-) Not all people have the majestic build of you, the great unkillable player. Some meaybe don't have all the mod or arcanes, some just have  build focused not only to defence, but what does this matter? Nothing compared to the great build of you.

-) Our great lord don't use useless stuff... please ask DE to remove everything in game that is not in Ukretor build. People that use other thing than the Uhkretor build are just stupid! Everything is stupid except you and your absolute best build.

-) Fun fact... if your sentinel survive is cause it is bad modded (focus on survival and not on utility)

 

Edited by MollAgdeduba
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13 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... Bad builds lead to quick deaths... I don't seem to have problems with those.

Bad arguments lead to embarrassment.

The Shield Osprey lightning attack is drastically out of proportion relative to everything else in Cropus Railjack of an equivalent level. I can sit in front of a crowd of Railjack Corpus forces, turn on Bone Widow's Shield and get maybe an extra 200-300 HP over base shield health. A single Shield Osprey can deal enough damage to spike my shield by 4000-6000 extra health in the same amount of time. No, it can't kill me because my Inaros has 8000 HP and my Moa pet has 13 000 HP. That doesn't make it better, it just means I'm overpowered enough to where balance doesn't matter.

Recall how a few months ago, Tusk Heavy Gunner damage was bugged and hitting substantially harder than intended. I hardly noticed because they were barely scratching my Inaros. Plenty of other people did notice, though, because they were instakilling just about everything else. Including mission objectives. That got fixed. I see the lightning attack in much the same way. It's dealing disproportionately high damage relative to faction baseline for seemingly no real reason.

 

3 hours ago, MollAgdeduba said:

Not all people have the majestic build of you, the great unkillable player. Some meaybe don't have all the mod or arcanes, some just have  build focused not only to defence, but what does this matter? Nothing compared to the great build of you.

This is true, though I'd go one further. One doesn't need to be literally unable to beat content in order for that content to be badly designed. Inversely, when one has issues with content, that doesn't immediately mean that they're unable to beat it. I myself have stupidly overpowered gear enough to sleepwalk my way through pretty much everything the game has to throw at me and I still find that damage spike to be aberrant and problematic. It's unfortunate that so many on this forum choose to "humble brag" by playing down legitimate issues.

Edited by Steel_Rook
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The shield drones deal a lot of damage it's true. Squishy frames get oneshot (two shot with shield gating) if you're not careful. You really don't want to get hit by it. Rolling guard will help, but not everyone has this mod. Adaptation for tankier frames, but again not everyone has this mod.

All I'm wondering is when this weapon will become available for us or for our sentinels.

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My problem with them is more a problem with electric procs in general, these osprey just epitomize it because the damage is so high. If you (you the warframe not the actual sentinel) take an electric proc your sentinel is just dead because electric procs do damage in an area around you, the exact area your sentinel hovers in. There's zero counter play except don't get procced. Once you are procced you can't do anything to protect the sentinel all you can do is watch it die. It's pretty miserable watching these osprey nuke sentinels through full health and all the revives from primed regen from a single electric proc.

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I just tested Valkyr with 2K armor and 1.1K hp with no adaptation and it takes a lvl 50 shield osprey about 5 seconds to kill me. Interesting. Translates them to dealing about 1700 damage (before DR) per second. More procs is faster kill sot he damage racks up towards the end. This would be about 1200 damage per second to a squishy frame with only 30% DR. So rolling guard and adaptation are a must, or you're going to be finding yourself on the floor plenty of times.

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1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

I just tested Valkyr with 2K armor and 1.1K hp with no adaptation and it takes a lvl 50 shield osprey about 5 seconds to kill me. Interesting. Translates them to dealing about 1700 damage (before DR) per second. More procs is faster kill sot he damage racks up towards the end. This would be about 1200 damage per second to a squishy frame with only 30% DR. So rolling guard and adaptation are a must, or you're going to be finding yourself on the floor plenty of times.

Yeah, that also checks out with my "quick and dirty" Bonewidow Shield math giving me ~4000 bonus shield across 2-4 seconds. Yeah, that seems like an unusually high amount of DPS.

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1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

I just tested Valkyr with 2K armor and 1.1K hp with no adaptation and it takes a lvl 50 shield osprey about 5 seconds to kill me. Interesting. Translates them to dealing about 1700 damage (before DR) per second. More procs is faster kill sot he damage racks up towards the end. This would be about 1200 damage per second to a squishy frame with only 30% DR. So rolling guard and adaptation are a must, or you're going to be finding yourself on the floor plenty of times.

is that a bad thing?

On 2021-04-13 at 9:00 PM, Steel_Rook said:

The Shield Osprey lightning attack is drastically out of proportion relative to everything else in Cropus Railjack

Agreed, they should buff other enemies as well. I can get behind that.

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17 hours ago, rikimaru6811 said:

is that a bad thing?

Yes and for one major reason:
You can easy round a blind corner in the map, or open a door, and with absolutely zero warning, telegraph, or time to prepare you are instantly at zero shields from a lightnig AOE and your companion is dead.
You now have all of half a second of shield gating to either:
A) One-shot the drone and pray to rng that you don't have a lightning proc that'll kill your frame unless you start spamming health restores because of high amounts o lingering DOT
B) Bullet jump away, hope that you can still shoot at them as you again pray to rng that you don't have a lightning proc and hope that your shields restore themselves so you can kill that thing at range.

If you aren't in a particularly tanky frame a blind corner can mean instant death with absolutely no warning or real counterplay that the player can engage in.
Especially if you get a electric proc, since that ticks over 6 seconds for a grand total of 3x the damage that the attack which caused it dealt to you.  For anything that not specifically tanky that becomes "Spam health restores or you're just dead, and from an enemy that you had zero warning about and an instant attack with zero telegraphing or warning"

There is absolutely nothing to tell you that those drones are nearby.  There is absolutely nothing to tell you when that attack is going to come.
It's just near instant death with absolutely no warning or counterplay available to the player.

IF the attack some had some way to avoid it (other than just never getting close to the drone; even a short charge-up animation/sound-bite would be enough) and/or the drone had something noticeable when they were nearby (a sound or visual effect like with the scrambi and combus) then it would be a lot more fair to the player.
As it is right now its basically "Oh you rounded a corner?  Well enjoy an electric proc that guarantees death with absolutely nothing you can do about it!!!!!"

As it stands the only "counterplay" is to either play an immortal frame; spam AOE abilities 24/7; or spam AOE weapons around corners....none of those are particularly fun.


Basically these drones are just the broken lights 2.0; and are horrible to engage with for the exact same reason that the broken lights were horrible to engage with.  Especially when you open a friendship door and immediately get smacked and know that you're going to die shortly with no way to prevent it all because a shield drone was just hanging out on the opposite side of the door and you literally couldn't do anything to avoid or get around it.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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Yea, as always, enemy balance is the greatest weakness of DE.

Small, unnoticeable in all the visual clutter drone? Not telegraphed attack that deals thousands of damage and a guaranteed electric proc.

Guys with new electric Tetras? Can't tell the difference between them and other units, and have no limits on spawning, more than two? Floor is lava electric proc.

Guys with Ogris-like Pentas? Don't stand out in a crowd, not telegraphed attack, deal thousands of damage with hit-scan-like AoE weapons. More than one in the room? Your adaptation won't have time to kick in.

New cryo moas? Guaranteed hit most of the time, hard to see, pretty sure they deal decent damage as well, and that annoying slow....

 

Big boys with the new energy gatling archgun? Oh yeah baby, now that's a serious-looking enemy, all attention to them, they even have a spool-up time..... and no damage.....

New Racknoid? Unique enemy, looks like a roadblock when in tight corridors, surely should put up a fight.... Do they even attack you?

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Not really complaining, compared to Grineer Eviscerators in railjack new corpus is not really all that scary, kinda used to dying on foot at that point (or taking immortal frames)
But still it would be nice to have a balance pass, or to have enemies visually represent their threat level


 

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