Arcane Energize and energy economy deserve a "little" nerf

[bad4youLT]

I propose a rework for energy system that uses both mechanics from current system and mix it with cooldowns .

Essentially it would work like this , all 4 abilities would have their own energy reserve in form of dots . first ability 4 dots , second three , third two and fourth one dot . This dots would represent charges and how many times ability could be used ( for example third ability could be used two times ) . 

Once dot is consumed after ability cast / effect has worn off it would begin to recharge , recharge would take time meaning abilities would be on cooldowns and at the same time have fixed consumable number of casts .

The recharge rate would be affected by two factors . One which slot ability takes place , if its first then recharge is faster , if its last slot then it is slower . And secondly the dot ( remaining charges left ) count , more charges means faster recharge , less charges less recharge and no charges would equal to long recharge .

And of course moding would play a role in all of this by adding more charges to some ability at the cost of charges from others , shorting cooldowns but reducing number of charges , increasing number of charges but increasing cooldown , etc .

[trst]

Problem is that energy is in the same boat as a lot of other systems. The foundation of it was not maintained and balanced for the game that was built around it. And to knock out some mechanics of it will just leave it replaced with others and ultimately not address the underlying issues.

We have so many different ways to achieve infinite energy that even if we deleted arcane energize, energizing dash, and energy restores from the game completely then we would just switch to rage/hunter adrenalin, energy generator, equilibrium, just using efficiency/removing blind rage from builds, or go back to the days when Trinity was relevant. Even the nerfs proposed wouldn't do a whole lot to counteract the issues created besides maybe making blind rage harder to use.

But the real core of the problem isn't that energy sources are overpowered but that the system is completely black and white; we're either at the mercy of random orb drops or have near/literally infinite energy from using any one of a dozen different sources. The whole system needs a ground-up rework including all mechanics that modify/create energy (and possibly reworking abilities in general) in order for it to not be trivialized by a single thing and to prevent having a complete lack of energy most of the time.

[JackHargreav]

Zenurik got nerfed enough. Just make it give us energy like it did originally. No more recasting bullS#&$. Make it a passive and while we're at it let's buff all the other schools too.

[Slayer-.]

 

5 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Seeing how you can play with almost zero care on managing your energy to spam abilities and reversing the odds, and heaven forbids we can have a game where you can play the game without engaging the game or putting a care on your resources, let's nerf the energy economy for today.

1. Arcane Energize

Seeing how you can easily get 150 energy burst from collecting an energy orb, it makes energy management trivial so I'm changing its function

- Changed from 60% chance to get 150 bonus energy to you and nearby allies to 'Chance to gain 100% more energy on energy pickup'

Why? By changing it to gain extra energy instead of high flat amount of energy, energy economy will be still manageable but not at the point of making them non-problem

2. Energizing Dash

5 energy per second that lasts 30 seconds is deemed too fast for energy gain so I'm balancing the gain

- Changed to 2 energy per second that lasts for 50 seconds

3. Energy Restore

- Unable to deploy another restore until the second burst

Why? To prevent spamming and making energy economy obsolete

More will be monitored

 

5 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

No it's a Troll account. 

  

No from me as well.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

No, it doesn't. 

[kwlingo]

6 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Seeing how you can play with almost zero care on managing your energy to spam abilities and reversing the odds, and heaven forbids we can have a game where you can play the game without engaging the game or putting a care on your resources, let's nerf the energy economy for today

Agreed! The only problem is that DE has made "most" of the community spam only or AFK mechanic centered. If DE was ever to implement this they would all uproar. Lets face it the only balance many want is more spam or AFK to match the best mechanics in game currently.

[Skaleek]

Funny how many people dislike this. The reality is the energy economy in Warframe is entirely out of whack and probably needs to be revisited/re-evaluated when the devs finally accept how much of a problem it's become. Yeah nerfs are probably needed, get over it people.

[Slayer-.]

8 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Agreed! The only problem is that DE has made "most" of the community spam only or AFK mechanic centered. If DE was ever to implement this they would all uproar. Lets face it the only balance many want is more spam or AFK to match the best mechanics in game currently.

thief, put my profile about me pic back. 

[kwlingo]

7 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

thief, put my profile about me pic back. 

lol hi handsome

[vanaukas]

11 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Funny how many people dislike this. The reality is the energy economy in Warframe is entirely out of whack and probably needs to be revisited/re-evaluated when the devs finally accept how much of a problem it's become. Yeah nerfs are probably needed, get over it people.

It's disgusting seeing some user names that advocates certain nerfs but when it's related to their playstyle they just goes on full negation of the problem. I really wish devs do something about energy economy, but welp.

[(PSN)lydon123]

1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

Funny how many people dislike this. The reality is the energy economy in Warframe is entirely out of whack and probably needs to be revisited/re-evaluated when the devs finally accept how much of a problem it's become. Yeah nerfs are probably needed, get over it people.

The only thing is...there is no problem with the energy economy. Nerfs are not needed. Energy recovery is not overpowered and you still need to mod and equip arcanes if you want to use abilities more often. 

Using abilities in a hoarde type looter shooter is fun. Why nerf fun?

Zenurik and arcane energize has already recieved nerfs in the past.

Nerfs really are not needed in this department.

[Yamazuki]

I'm not sure why people act like nerfing energy gains into oblivion "balances" the game, or will mysteriously make the braindead enemies even more "difficult". Last I checked, content where anything but dps buffs being non-functional weren't difficult, in the slightest. Even OV, with restricted energy gains initially unless you used specific Warframes, wasn't difficult.

Especially when you consider the popular way to play Warframe outside of ESO involves spamming aoe ranged projectiles shot by "guns", which don't use energy anyways. Some of the popular to use Warframes would hardly be impacted.

Sure though, lets all join together to continuously push to turn Warframe into a generic shooter with fancy jumps, because there definitely aren't a million of those already to play.

[Slayer-.]

12 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

It's disgusting seeing some user names that advocates certain nerfs but when it's related to their playstyle they just goes on full negation of the problem. I really wish devs do something about energy economy, but welp.

It's a second account setup just to troll.

Time Played 45 minutes.
MR 1 Initiate.
Volt R7, MK1-Braton R5, Kunai R7 and Skana R6.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

36 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Lets face it the only balance many want is more spam or AFK to match the best mechanics in game currently.

Match? No they want a game mode where the only difficulty is how long you are willing to AFK spam (there is no difference between AFKing and spamming) to get the rewards at the end, the rewards being a slight/major increase in the efficiency of AFK spamming. While they watch netflix, they are AFK regardless of how they try to justify it.

[Surbusken]

Here is my impression of the intent of the game.

Developers create a problem, you grind out the solution via loot.

For instance knockdown -> prime sure footed,

Reload times, status attacks, armor or whatever.

You progress in the game by building your character through fixing problems. Once you reach a higher level, you look back at your accomplishments, mainly by feeling the improvements.

That aside, seems like the game is made as a 'trash mob speedrun', for the most parts. Meaning the pace of combat and movement is as fast as you can dish it out, it's instant and it is constant.

For example, you can spam out melee attacks at what 300% speed, without interruption.

Regardless if the nerf squads out there, enjoy the intent of all that or not, that's the reality of what we are working with right now.

Reducing the speed or lowering "actions per second" is simply against the game's own core.

 

So,  for people dreaming of 1998 hotbar casting with cooldowns, and teams needing tank/healer/dps, you will have to revert the intent of the game first, not go around town ruining individual sections of the game, thinking it's going to change anything.

[vanaukas]

Just now, Slayer-. said:

It's a second account setup just to troll.

Time Played 45 minutes.
MR 1 Initiate.
Volt R7, MK1-Braton R5, Kunai R7 and Skana R6.

I know, but energy, slash and scalable abilities are a problem for propper "endgame" content, woch supossedly is "the biggest flaw" in game. It's like when vazarin made invincible everything that was ally to us and trivialized every single piece of content. You can't have proper challenging content if slash keeps dealing true damage procs, of energy managment doesn't exist and if abilities scales with enemy level dealing almost the same damage regardless. 

I know the user is trolling with some of the proposed solutions, but it's picking real problems regarding balance. The lack of balance is why people get bored quickly and says things like "Why I would use X gear if I can do everything with Y?" and maybe that's what the devs wants, but I doubt it since they are trying to keep us in line with enemy dps and ehp, wich becomes a problem for new players and then the content is trivialized again and it's a never ending cycle that only can be broken addressing those issues.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Hecking heck no.

I like my abilities.

[PacoSakima]

very simple solution, everyone just runs inaros, no energy needed whatsoever.....:) obviously

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, (PSN)lydon123 said:

The only thing is...there is no problem with the energy economy. Nerfs are not needed. Energy recovery is not overpowered and you still need to mod and equip arcanes if you want to use abilities more often. 

Using abilities in a hoarde type looter shooter is fun. Why nerf fun?

Zenurik and arcane energize has already recieved nerfs in the past.

Nerfs really are not needed in this department.

As long as you don't go in another thread and complain about challenge and lack of difficult content.

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

nooo, i don't have arcane energise yet and some frames struggle with energy for me

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

20 minutes ago, PacoSakima said:

very simple solution, everyone just runs inaros, no energy needed whatsoever.....:) obviously

Unless you've Helminthed in an ability you want to use more frequently.*

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

36 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

I know, but energy, slash and scalable abilities are a problem for propper "endgame" content, woch supossedly is "the biggest flaw" in game. It's like when vazarin made invincible everything that was ally to us and trivialized every single piece of content. You can't have proper challenging content if slash keeps dealing true damage procs, of energy managment doesn't exist and if abilities scales with enemy level dealing almost the same damage regardless. 

I know the user is trolling with some of the proposed solutions, but it's picking real problems regarding balance. The lack of balance is why people get bored quickly and says things like "Why I would use X gear if I can do everything with Y?" and maybe that's what the devs wants, but I doubt it since they are trying to keep us in line with enemy dps and ehp, wich becomes a problem for new players and then the content is trivialized again and it's a never ending cycle that only can be broken addressing those issues.

It's a problem for you, but not others. You don't have to play a parent that "knows what's best" for the game and the thousands of people that play it. We're not suffering and you don't have to save us.

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's a problem for you, but not others. You don't have to play a parent that "knows what's best" for the game and the thousands of people that play it. We're not suffering and you don't have to save us.

Not really, I can see flaws but I also can still enjoy the game regardless, since "end game" for me just spice things up. I've never said "we" or you were suffering or anything besides that the game has balance issues, and anyone capable of thinking can see it, it's even admited by devs on multiple devstreams. So keep your assumptions about me wanting to save you, save players or the game inside your head, where it belongs.

[TheArmchairThinker]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's a problem for you, but not others. You don't have to play a parent that "knows what's best" for the game and the thousands of people that play it. We're not suffering and you don't have to save us.

Apparently some Tenno here are acting like parents that "knows what's best" starting from saying this game has no challenge, need endgame mode, this game having no engagement to the point of being in apathy zone, so I'm just playing along.

I believe you know who're the Tenno I'm talking about

[Krankbert]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb TheArmchairThinker:

saying this game has no challenge

It doesn't. I'm sorry you're bad at it.