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Update 30: Void Storms Feedback Megathread (Closed)


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Overall I am liking the update, especially the new quest. However, after playing Void Storms for a while and acquiring Sevagoth, I do have some criticisms about the new fissure mode:

1. First and major issue, there is far too much visual noise (or clutter) in the Void Storm missions. So much so that it is hard to see what is happening sometimes. I can't even imagine what it must be like for players who still have camera shake enabled because it was as bad as the visual clutter when the Hydrolyst fight was released. I wonder if anyone has had issues with all the flashes.

2. Second concern, some mission durations are getting doubled in a Void Storm. This might just be a level/scaling issue but a normal Grineer Skirmish in the Veil generally had 6 crewships to destroy and 1 objective to complete while the Void Storm version has 8 crewships and an extra objective, on top of enemies being tankier. I'm all for more challenging content, but personally I dislike long missions which can't be sped up by skill when going after a reward. I don't have any complaints about the drop tables though.

3. Third, Void Sinks. These are the major contributors to the visual clutter and I'm not sure what the point of these are to be honest. If they are there to increase difficulty I think they succeed at that, but they seem like kind of an unfair mechanic. They are constantly spawning right in your face and exploding for a pretty large radius without cooldown, which leaves little counter-play. Sure, you can shoot them, but good luck identifying them among all the particle effects.

Thanks for the update, DE. I hope my feedback is helpful.

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Still nearly impossible to get reactant in a squad.

Now my last 5 solo missions yielded nothing. Im letting stuff get into the fissure before i shoot it. I dont know what else to do in a skirmish mission. Boarding the objective doesnt yield corrupted NPCs to even drop stuff.

Yall didn't even test this stuff before release and it shows. While I appreciate the hard work because the music at the very least is fantastic, you guys constantly leave glaring oversights upon release of everything and I can't understand why.

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As of update 30.0.2 the void effects are still awful

8 minutes ago, pantophage said:

Void storm effects still make the missions completely unplayable. Between the constant void explosions and void UI effect constantly flickering on and off I have had massive migraines after playing 1 mission both yesterday and today. This isn't just excessive effects, this is visual vomit. I tried tweaking the graphical settings, but this is beyond what that can fix. I would really like to play the new update, but since the void storm rewards are meh compared to normal relic cracks AND are migraine inducing I don't see a point to it. The explosion effects are bad but not anything super new compared to eidolons/orb fights, but the void UI effect is atrocious. I have no history of screen sickness or seizures but this really turned me off from playing warframe, since I do have a couple friends who play that do get screen sick. If it gives me a migraine after 5-10 minutes, I can't imagine them going anywhere near this content.

 

void explosion happening somewhat offscreen:20210414165750_1.jpg

 

void UI effect. As is it appears and disappears very rapidly, sometimes multiple times within a second. It is a very strong visual effect which already sucks, but it also has NO transition. magnetic procs have transitions, this just pops up. When you aim down sight, it becomes less intense. Please tone down this effect to the ADS level all the time and add transitions:

20210414165758_1.jpg

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After playing a couple more hours today (6 systems, 5 chassis, 0 neuros - yay!), I'm thinking these Void Storms may be the worst designed missions in the game, if you take into account all aspects of them.

For starters, the day 1 epilepsy bug was unforgivable.  Seriously bad.  Shows that DE has minimal (at best) testing procedures.  This kind of visual can actually give certain people seizures.  That's actual harm in real life.  Not to many people (and they probably don't play Warframe), but my god that was just sad that got through DE's alpha testing.

Even fixed, the visuals are just simply too much.  They hurt my eyes.  They block the game.  And the screen shake...  Easily the most painful to look at thing in my gaming experience (that was put there on purpose).  They're even designed poorly, with the Void Split proximity visual blocking being able to see the actual Void Split (especially if the 2d Split is oriented flat to the player).  It's just...bad and I don't want to see it or experience it.  There is simply too much going on for any of it to be meaningful.  Just visual clutter.

Apart from the visuals, the Splits are too frequent, too sudden and too close to the player to be a meaningful threat that you can do anything about.  As designed, they're just not interesting.  Move faster and hope.  Or hope you're already looking at it and shoot.  Or insta-gibbing.

Throw in the RJ 3.0 removal of force hosting, means that if you queue into a PUB, you can be put on a tier 0 starter Railjack.  Why is a ship that terrible allowed to host anywhere but Earth?  Just because someone has 7 intrinsics doesn't mean they have done anything (or even understand how to) to their ship.  Veil should require at least MK 2 everywhere.  Maybe even more stringent.

RJ 2.0 bugs still exist.  RJ 3.0 bugs are plentiful.  What causes my ESC key to suddenly stop working?  Or using the Navigation terminal on the ship?  Guess I won't be equipping a relic this run.  Oh wait, somehow without voting or choosing a relic, I equipped one?  But very next mission none is equipped.  And now I can vote again.  But sadly, this mission the Grineer door just won't open, and player 2 is stuck in a turret.  Fell out of bounds in operator mode while trying to get energy while defending a point?  Let's put you in space in your Archwing and disable the entry door so you have to go back to your ship and abort.

Mission flow is also awful (but it's a 2.0 thing, not a 3.0 thing).  So unorganic and cumbersome, even telling you (when it actually IS safe to leave) that you'll lose all items and progress.  Because two Mission Completed screens is cool.

Plus, most of these Railjack missions aren't Railjack missions, but base Frame missions.  Defense, Exterminate, Volatile.  These (IMO) shouldn't even be in a Railjack mission.  But instead they are the focus.  For the Exterminate Void Storm, the extent of the Railjack being needed is almost zero.  Just take down the Crew ship's health and everything else can be done by frames and archwings.  And then enter the ship for a basic frame mission.

As for rewards - I'm only MR 20 and maybe there's something I'm missing later, but apart from the ones you want once (or twice for Helminth), not a single reward listed is something I would choose to do one of these missions for.  I might pass even if I was offered one of EVERY POSSIBLE REWARD.  Traces - maybe 1 time ever did I not have any when I needed some (crafting Dragon keys).  So I ran a couple random fissures and got them.  I don't think traces are a good reward.  Endo - even at 1200, that's scrapping 5 tier 3 pieces.  If I really wanted Endo and wanted to run railjack, I'd just run a Veil skirmish, have fun, and scrap some drops.  There are so many other Endo sources in the game.  We don't need another.  The relics - this is just me but I don't a drop out of any of the listed ones.  And I have multiple copies (granted, not radiant) of all of them but a few Axi.  Maybe if the Valkyr/Nyx were there, but I'd rather try for those in caches in missions that aren't Void Storms.

I just think these are terribly designed missions.  And I like Railjack (skirmish).  I don't know who these are for once people have the frame and weapon parts.  Like who would choose to do this given the bugs, the time and the terrible rewards, once they have the parts already?  Seems like DoA content (barring the initial wave for parts drops).

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I agree with the people saying that it just feels like too much work for too little reward. Personally, once I have the new stuff there feels like no reason to do Void Storms because I can just do a capture, rescue, or even survival of the normal fissures and get my reward much faster. I like the idea I've seen a few times of getting multiple relic rewards from doing them. There would need to be limitations and details worked out, of course, but I think that would be a good solution. Yesterday the screen shake and visuals of the storms were awful. I couldn't see anything at times and definitely could see it causing seizures. I saw on patch notes that that issue was addressed, but I haven't tried it out since then so I can't say how it is now. But yeah, yesterday it was pretty bad. There is also the issue that it isn't really easy to get reactant. I think maybe some ships should drop reactant or something because compared to normal fissures, the reactant felt lacking. I didn't have any runs where I didn't get all the reactant I needed so that issue wasn't too bad for me, but it was noticeable. Overall I don't dislike void storms, I just think they could use some improvement, especially when it comes to the time spent for the reward, and the fact that some of the visuals could seriously injure people that are prone to seizures.

 

Side note, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but yesterday I got a Sevagoth Chassis BP as a reward, while the other 2 people in my squad got a relic reward. This happened once more with other rewards too, where they got endo and I got a relic. I thought it was odd that they both got the same reward and I got a different one, especially since I wasn't host, 1 of my squad mates is playing in the same room as me, and I've always gotten the same rewards as the rest of my squad for other railjack missions.

Edited by AutumnRhey
wording, forgot to mention something
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Not having read through all the replies, but the relics and traces you get from void storm runs should really be available at the end on the mission, not just on return to dojo.  Currently if you get a relic and want to open it you need to return to dojo and then go back out right away, and if you're low on traces and want to upgrade a relic for the next run the trace rewards aren't there to use until you go back to the dojo.  It would be nice if the relics and traces worked like endless fissure missions, and would make more sense since multiple railjack missions in a row are kind of entirely separate missions.

 

And to echo many comments, that visual noise is a hell of a thing in missions.

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I have to report bug for Particle Ram in Railjack i encountered it after the update and it didn't cast or deduct my energy the two battle skill works only particle ram and I didn't get inbox after the update for Railjack that u can get the mats and mods for it. I hope u fix that bug. Ty. 

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Just gonna echo what others said here: It feels like void storms are specifically designed to become a content island. Drop tables are diluted with one-and-done rewards (epitaph & sevagoth parts) and cracking relics is way slower than star chart fissures. 

If you wanted a content island, that's fine. I'm just confused because I thought that was the exact opposite of the idea. 

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56 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Just gonna echo what others said here: It feels like void storms are specifically designed to become a content island. Drop tables are diluted with one-and-done rewards (epitaph & sevagoth parts) and cracking relics is way slower than star chart fissures. 

If you wanted a content island, that's fine. I'm just confused because I thought that was the exact opposite of the idea. 

I don't think "content island" means what you think it means.

Btw, polluted drop tables are everywhere, this has always been the case in most things you do in the game, not really specific to Void Storms.

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Void storms are fine aside from the nausea-inducing FX overload.

However, it's not rewarding enough, there is no motivation doing it after having farmed all rewards. Just like Granum Void. It just takes so much longer than regular fissures to be a natural alternative.

Make it endless. Or RJ only. Or make it provide lots of traces. Or auto-refine every relic brought in by one level. Just something the majority of players actually wants.

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Hundreds of posts saying that void storms are unrewarding, DE. My question is how did you not see this coming? Took me one mission to come to this conclusion. No one at DE said "hey this is a bad idea. No one's gonna do this after they farm the one and done rewards?". Feels like you guys are largely disconnected from the game you are developing.

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Am 13.4.2021 um 21:48 schrieb kinoko_takenoko:

The current situation, where only infantry can be Corrupted, requires irrational play, such as daring to let Ramsled through.
Railjack enemy fighters need to be corrupted in the same way that normal enemies are corrupted.
(At least if you want to open Relic).

To be expected, the RJ part and the away crew part are basically two separate missions with transition in between. While RJ was promoted as seamless ground/space combination, DE went the cheap route and just inserted a regular mission inside the RJ mission. The result is that either the ground mission feels like a chore, or the RJ part feels like a taxi ride.

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I've got to jump on the "visuals are too busy" bandwagon myself. Especially when it happens in tandem with the bug where the HUD becomes perma-distorted from electrical damage even after repairs. My eyes feel like they want to flee screaming from my skull.

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Reactant really needs to be reworked, particularly for Grineer void storm missions

I've had multiple missions that went on for 20+ minutes and we couldn't get enough reactant. 

Edited by Huggalump
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First of all, the effects are a bit out of control, void storms are generating so many damaging fissures it's hard to stay alive, not to mention the particle explosions. then we have the void storm effect from outside, the RJ portion glitching inside the ships and causing massive energy tails that follow players everywhere. combined with (seems that it's the only one) pre-objective in RJ about hacking and dealign with drones, where you're constantly assailed by electric arcs...you have a cluster#*!% of effects and it's very disorienting.

Also after 4 hours of farming supposedly 10% drop chance for sevagoth parts and getting nothing i'm a quite disappointed and rather "annoyed". it takes long to do one of the RJ missions and even with 3 rewards the parts never show up...

 

EDIT (out of context for this update but general complaint): why is this a Rated18 videogame with age verification required on the youtube channel but we can't write simple curse words in the forums. Why make it +18 then?

Edited by Domaik
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The graphics are headache and disorientation inducing, I turn off a lot of the graphical effects (Bloom, screen shake, motion blur) to cut down on the eyestrain and disorientation but here comes some more. Can we either have the option to manage the appearance of void storms outselves or the graphics, shaking and refocussing required reduced to a minimum?

Also, the missions are really unrewarding to do. Quite often there is a lengthy, tedious and unrewarded chore to do before we get to the meat of the mission that is a standard mission with more unpleasant graphical effects stamped on top.

The missions should reward at least one relic cracking per 5 minutes of activity, maybe have a chamber in the ship where relics get void energy channeled in to them so that we don't have to specifically collect reactant or have fighters drop it so there will always be enough.

Also, Sevagoth needs its own drop table that doesn't drop if you already own one. Or, radical idea, make the drop table drop a piece you haven't had yet.

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Sorry to say that but void storms are utterly useless for relics opening …

On one hand in Grineer missions, more often than not, you can't even open the relic due to lack of enough ground enemies, since the objectives of the Grineer missions are mostly in space and space ships can't be corrupted. In the other hand in Corpus missions, there are enough ground enemies encounters, but the time spend in a mission to open a single relic is just way too long, and render the whole mode totally inefficient and unattractive.

Overall, simply slapping the whole design of relics opening of regular missions into Railjack missions is a mistake. It just don't fit. It could have been an opportunity to do things differently. I mean : you release a quest with this whole naval thematic, with an enemy who reminds me Captain Ahab hunting Moby-$&*^. Also, we are in a ship inside a huge storm, and there is theses giant orokin worms roaming theses void tunnels.

You can set a hunting mission for these worms inside the void tunnel (like some kind of space whale hunting). The pilot must maintain the ship inside the storm (you can set a lot of disturbances which need to be evade, because they can harm the ship and ultimately kick it outside the tunnel, thus failing the mission), while gunners shoot that damn things (we can imagine some sorts of weak points on his body, which drop reactants). Also, the ship can be invaded by corrupted through these void rifts, needing defense and repair (and also dropping reactants). And as long as you stay in the void tunnel, you must fight these orokin worms while opening relics. Also, a fight like this would have been damn epic !

It just an idea thrown like that. But actually, void storms are totally flawed on a game design perspective. It just can't rivalise with regular relics missions in any shape or form, and they become simply uninteresting once you got Sevagoth and Epitaph. In fact, it's so painful (physically, my poor eyes T.T) to farm theses void storms for the new warframe and the weapon that i think i'll do what Brozime suggested and just trade parts for plat …

PS : I WANT TO PLAY WITH MY OWN RAILJACK !! I haven't maxed it to always end up inside someone else's ship. You created an option "Join a crew", so you can also create an option "Assemble a crew".

Edited by Yulfan
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Some suggestions

1) make sevagoth and his weapon their own drop like every other frame (you can dilute it with endo and credits drop)
2) reward checkpoint after every mission "part" and remove reactant from voidstorms
3)cut the in out in out in missions (Once ok but why twice or more)
4) crewships and front cannon, that's a bad concept, change it so that it's fluid for solo gameplay
5) change affinity gain or make plexus focus lens able

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When you look at the Railjack feedback thread and see all the people which complained about the structure of the missions where just a regular mission is put on top of the railjack part and all the complaints about these missions getting way too long and unrewarding, you really have to wonder how the Void Storms eventually got shipped in the stated they are.

The feedback from the Railjack revisited thread got totally ignored. I am convinced that the feedback given here will be treaten the same way.

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2 hours ago, Huggalump said:

Reactant really needs to be reworked, particularly for Grineer void storm missions

I've had multiple missions that went on for 20+ minutes and we couldn't get enough reactant. 

Not that this is a good thing, but I found in my PUBs that people generally don't care about cracking the relic.  They (and me) were all there to farm for parts, or didn't really know what the mission was other than "the new thing".  I've farmed both now, so don't need to do these ever again (unless I want to build a 2nd Sev, which means I need another neuros).

You don't even have to equip a relic to get the part drops (or the endo, traces or rad relic if RNG goes that way).  And many groups I ran with didn't.

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Okay, so I have a solution for voidstorms problem. I think everybody will love this idea, because it is rewarding and it would NOT affect Prime access.

Let voidstorms be the ultimate DUCAT farming place.

Rules:
You can equip 4 relics for each Void storm run.
At the end all of them crack open, but we do NOT get any prime parts.
Each relic rolls it's droptable and converts the picked reward directly into ducats.
At the end of the mission you receive 60-400 ducats (based on your rng luck).

I have put a lot of thinking into this idea. Voidstorms will never be a good alternative for cracking relics in regular void fissures. They need their own reason to exist.
I totally agree that cracking multiple relics and getting mutiple prime parts is not a good idea, but ducats are not part of the prime access and serve as a currency that is unobtainable with real money (yes, you can trade for parts, but that's not a direct purchase)

I am convined that this would be a great solution.

Do you need certain prime parts - farm fissures.

Do you need ducats and you don't care about potential loss and want to just burn through relics? You gotta get that railjack and farm void storms.

10/10 - Grofit.

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Here is one suggestion that could make void storm more bearable which is to change the mission reward pool. Currently, the game mode will give you three different rewards from their own corresponding pools (Relic, Void storm table & Base mission table).

The problem here is that a single run of the Void storm mission will give you 1 cracked relic reward, 1 Void storm reward and then 2-3 bonus rewards from the base mission.

The base mission drops are no longer useful to players at this point as they have already ran through the RJ content non-stop. It would be better to simply have the bonus rewards come from the Void storm drop table instead.

This will allow a viable method for players to farm for the Sevagoth parts / get traces / an alternative method of getting radiant relics.

In other words, completing a mission should give you: 1 cracked relic reward + 3 Void storm rewards.

This could also encourage players to try optimize their runs for RJ missions with more objectives as each of them will give a bonus chance of rolling from the Void storm table.

That or simply find a way to enable multiple relics being cracked in one run.

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My absolutely most hated part of farming is farming Void Traces.
Between that and the pre-radiant relics, I'm good with Void Storm rewards.

That said:
* Primes were nominally removed from the game (the 'Prime Vault') in order to lessen the bloat in reward pools.
We're on... 350? types of relics, and ~5 per new PA and new Vault pack.
* Corrupting rate scales with time. Combined with the spawn spread-out of dual-spawns (RJ+ground), this makes playing efficiently (1+ player per objective) counterproductive, as you run out of enemies (barring boarders) before you get any traces.
* I'm still NEVER going to run RJ Def, Void Storm or no. The improvement helps, but they're still excrusiating.

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