With Sevagoth released, Equinox should get a rework

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

That's on the players not Equinox, people tend to lean towards damage over support that's why you barely see night equinox. 

I have 2 builds one for night and one for day both subsumed metamorphosis cause maximizing one form hurts the other one for me. If they add Sevagoth mechanic to her then great but her abilitys definitely doesn't need reworks

Someone brought that up earlier and maybe that's all Equinox needs. 

That's exactly why theirs a problem Damage builds are far more popular then Support builds.

[0_The_F00l]

I would personally like a rework for equinox.

I absolutely love that frame but it is extremely awkward to use for most players,

She does not need a lot honestly just a few tweaks that are on QoL side,

1) make any one (or more) of the augments part of the base ability

2) make the transitions between forms smoother (preferably not needing to recast her 3 and 4 between transitions) ,

3) reduce the cast time

4) Let each form have its own health and energy , preferably needing zero energy to switch, and having a permanent buff instead of a temporary one we have now.

One of the draws of equinox for me is that she can do almost all the roles , but she can never do more than one well enough to make a difference. So i personally am less inclined to shift forms as what is needed for one form as mods doesnt work for the other (i have manged to create a versatile build but it takes some management) .

If we can have 2 different builds (one for night and one for day) it can bridge that gap and incentivize players to switch between them tactically or as per situation.

So i support this.

As to the argument of "dev time wastage" that doesnt make sense to me, all assets in the game required resources one time or the other to create, if new players (or existing players) do not acquire those assets then it is truly wasted , however if some effort put into an existing frame produces interest by players (time, plat and forma investments) its not wasted Dev time.

Polishing an existing object to sell is more effective than creating a completely new object from scratch from a resource management perspective.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

And yet Chromas 4 is still not even worth casting, even after his revisit.

Even after his revisit there's still requests for a rework for that frame so if your trying to end this discussion for Equinox I'm willing to bet somewhere at DE, there's a "Warframe Rework List" and sooner or later  Equinox name will eventually be one they want to check off. (And even with Effigy, it dosent change his overall kit, it's not like he gets new abilities when it's on, unlike Equinox or Sevagoth)

 

Yeah that's my point dum dum  if any "second form" warframe needs attention after this sevagoth release, it's Chroma, not Equinox. Plus a rework isnt a priority for warframes after a release of a new warframe, especially when that new warframe is the priority atm

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

If she's like playing two warframes at once I'd like to have the option to build for both (which I can do with Sevagoth) so how does that not making any sense? 

She isn't playing two warframes at once, you can't just say that since her crafting is such. She is one warframe and feels like one warframe, her form changes are similar to how some abilities have a different "hold ability=diff effect" type of thing, she doesn't need seperate modding(Idk why you even think that) and technically Sevagoth's 2nd form counts as a exalted form so that's why. Should not be that hard to comprehend.

 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

Yeah that's my point dum dum

She isn't playing two warframes at once, you can't just say that since her crafting is such. She is one warframe and feels like one warframe, her form changes are similar to how some abilities have a different "hold ability=diff effect" type of thing, she doesn't need seperate modding(Idk why you even think that" and technically Sevagoth's 2nd form counts as a exalted form so that's why. Should not be that hard to comprehend.

 

And the point I'm making in regards to Chroma is his 4 dosent alter his abilities at all, it just alters his health, armor etc vs Equinox where if you change Day/Night forms it does. 

And from my observations the vast majority of players I've encountered, they don't build for Night form basically writing off half of her potential. That's not good design. 

Yes Sevagoths second form is an Exalted ability but your still modding for it like any other warframe because it has its own abilities ontop of having Exalted weapons.

I never said her crafting makes her like that. But she is basically two warframes. So why shouldn't you be able to mod her that way? 

 

 

[ReddyDisco]

Equinox having another moddable form would be great qol change tbh

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

10 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

And from my observations the vast majority of players I've encountered, they don't build for Night form basically writing off half of her potential. That's not good design. 

 

Modding effects both forms the same just applying diff status effects.. i may be wrong about that but im like 98% sure that it's the case so she doesn't necessarily need seperate modding. Following your logic if I only use day then why should I need a seperate modding for night too? It's not the mods that make night unviable for you and others, you stated that support just isn't as popular/needed.

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

11 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Equinox having another moddable form would be great qol change tbh

I don't think it's a good idea. It's like saying you should be able to mod for each ability "Oh yeah, I put max strength with negative duration on Ash's kunai but it doesnt affect my invisibility because they're modded separately". It adds actual build variety/priority, I use night form a ton, especially when helping ppl/newbies stay alive when in Hydron while also milking the hordes of enemies with day for affinity share.

[ReddyDisco]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

I don't think it's a good idea. It's like saying you should be able to mod for each ability "Oh yeah, I put max strength with negative duration on Ash's kunai but it doesnt affect my invisibility because they're modded separately". It adds actual build variety/priority, I use night form a ton, especially when helping ppl/newbies stay alive when in Hydron while also milking the hordes of enemies with day for affinity share.

is having a squashed build made of two builds better? Day and night have different abilities, you literally have to build two warframes to make one. Equinox having seperate moddable entity makes most sense imo

[(XBOX)Apoll0 666]

1 minute ago, ReddyDisco said:

is having a squashed build made of two builds better? Day and night have different abilities, you literally have to build two warframes to make one. Equinox having seperate moddable entity makes most sense imo

I understand the logic behind this but just no, she is similar to how Gauss has ice/fire in one ability, the devs just thought it was a super cool idea to make her worth two warframes.. which is cool lorewise but annoying crafting/farming wise

Sameish abilities different effects. All of her abilites reflect from day-night, so modding affects both the same way.. the only thing is the sleep and dmg buffer being an issue. I love the way she is personally and I feel the need to repeat what I just said.. you shouldn't be able to mod for separate abilities.(even if it's technically a seperate form) she has 8 abilities per se so I'm still unsure about this. I'd understand if they were totally different abilities but all 8 reflect each other and work in similar ways so modding doesn't matter too much except for when it comes to her sleep/dmg buff.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Equinox is probably the #1 Warframe that needs a rework

This is just a ridiculous statement. Valkyr’s only good ability is an attack speed buff.

Making both forms separately moddable is a great idea, though.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

I understand the logic behind this but just no, she is similar to how Gauss has ice/fire in one ability, the devs just thought it was a super cool idea to make her worth two warframes.. which is cool lorewise but annoying crafting/farming wise

Sameish abilities different effects. All of her abilites reflect from day-night, so modding affects both the same way.. the only thing is the sleep and dmg buffer being an issue. I love the way she is personally and I feel the need to repeat what I just said.. you shouldn't be able to mod for separate abilities.(even if it's technically a seperate form) she has 8 abilities per se so I'm still unsure about this. I'd understand if they were totally different abilities but all 8 reflect each other and work in similar ways so modding doesn't matter too much except for when it comes to her sleep/dmg buff.

Buddy what do you have to lose if both her forms were modded separately? You could still use the same build for both if you wanted to. Literally all this does is increase build diversity and player choice. It is purely a net positive with zero downsides. None of your counterpoints make any sense.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

32 minutes ago, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

Modding effects both forms the same just applying diff status effects.. i may be wrong about that but im like 98% sure that it's the case so she doesn't necessarily need seperate modding. Following your logic if I only use day then why should I need a seperate modding for night too? It's not the mods that make night unviable for you and others, you stated that support just isn't as popular/needed.

Honestly it just sounds like you don't want to use/invest an extra 1 or 2 forma if this change was to be implemented. 

There's no downsides to having both day and night forms completely moddable. Are a couple rounds on Hydron a big issue? 

If you don't want to agree on ability changes, that's perfectly fine. I'll concede that as from what I've been seeing in this discussion: The majority don't want that to happen. 

But that still dosent change my personal interactions with Equinox players that 9 times out of 10: Completely ignore using them and basically use Day form exclusively and basically the others go either rarely used or never used. 

That's the problem that I have observed and that's why I shared MY opinion on Equinox being highly deserving to be revisited or reworked. 

The major change that I have highlighted, having both day and night forms moddable is 100% a positive change and would likely also mean that half her kit wouldn't be ignored (as what I've encountered).

[A-keras]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

This is exactly the conversation I had with a friend about it and how by the end the conclusion that Equinox is probably the #1 Warframe that needs a rework, she needs more synergy with as your either build for Day or Night. 

By building for both (Like Sevagoth with his forms) you have access to her entire kit. With a revisit to abilities and adding this function she's in a much better place. 

Indeed! I've have even made some posts on this forum about why Equinox needs a rework and what her potential gameplay could be, if it took advantage of her theme. 

Equinox's gameplay being redesigned to allow for both of her forms to work in tandem with each other, combining their abilities for greater effect, would benefit her and the player. It would give an interesting playstyle, that while being highly technical, would be highly rewarding, as the player learns and understands the different combinations of abilities and effects, between Night Form and Day Form, and how to best use them for any situation. This would allow for much more build diversity than we currently have with Equinox, through her possible ability combos across her forms. 

So somewhat similar to Lavos, in a way, I think.  

And of course, I wouldn't want the use of both forms to be mandatory for players who like one form over the other, but using one form wouldn't be as effective as using both, as using both forms in tandem has more benefits for the player and their squad. Plus, using both forms could open up a chance to use their Composite Form in a mission; Every ability combo created through both forms, builds up a meter to access it. Her Composite Form's abilities are based on the combinations of abilities between Night Form and Day Form, but are performed faster, due to not needing to switch forms, and are stronger. 

 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

35 minutes ago, A-keras said:

Indeed! I've have even made some posts on this forum about why Equinox needs a rework and what her potential gameplay could be, if it took advantage of her theme. 

Equinox's gameplay being redesigned to allow for both of her forms to work in tandem with each other, combining their abilities for greater effect, would benefit her and the player. It would give an interesting playstyle, that while being highly technical, would be highly rewarding, as the player learns and understands the different combinations of abilities and effects, between Night Form and Day Form, and how to best use them for any situation. This would allow for much more build diversity than we currently have with Equinox, through her possible ability combos across her forms. 

So somewhat similar to Lavos, in a way, I think.  

And of course, I wouldn't want the use of both forms to be mandatory for players who like one form over the other, but using one form wouldn't be as effective as using both, as using both forms in tandem has more benefits for the player and their squad. Plus, using both forms could open up a chance to use their Composite Form in a mission; Every ability combo created through both forms, builds up a meter to access it. Her Composite Form's abilities are based on the combinations of abilities between Night Form and Day Form, but are performed faster, due to not needing to switch forms, and are stronger. 

 

Raymond Holt: VINDACATION! 

 

[Limborghini]

Realistically, DE should stop making new frames.

And focus on endgame.

But they will do what they do until we have 300 warframes that all do everything and clear any room in 1 sec.

They ran out of ideas around revenant... ever since its just slightly different more OP takes on already existing stuff.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

3 minutes ago, Limborghini said:

Realistically, DE should stop making new frames.

And focus on endgame.

But they will do what they do until we have 300 warframes that all do everything and clear any room in 1 sec.

They ran out of ideas around revenant... ever since its just slightly different more OP takes on already existing stuff.

honestly I'd love to see DE slow down the creation of new Warframes, but they also need something to draw people in with new updates.

Different game entirely, but as of late Rainbow Six Siege has halved the rate of releasing new characters (from 2 per season to 1), and has instead gone back and reworked old characters and maps with every update. Siege's community has been really receptive to this, and I think Warframe would benefit from the same strategy, because people have been BEGGING for changes to old frames, mission types, and reward structures. I think the main reason they don't do this is because of dev team size restrictions, so when they slowly release an update, it needs to have something NEW for the playerbase to sink their teeth into.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

honestly I'd love to see DE slow down the creation of new Warframes, but they also need something to draw people in with new updates.

Different game entirely, but as of late Rainbow Six Siege has halved the rate of releasing new characters (from 2 per season to 1), and has instead gone back and reworked old characters and maps with every update.

The thing is I think you'd hear the words "Content drought" again from the loud minority. 

At the same time I am 100% in support of seeing warframe releases being cut down for this to take place due to warframes not aging well. 

If they did an update where it was simply fixes, revisits and reworks it would be more than welcome. I'd honestly do that in Jan/Feb each year.

But having it cut into devtime? Hahaha the pitchforks and torches would be out yet again. 

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

The thing is I think you'd hear the words "Content drought" again from the loud minority. 

At the same time I am 100% in support of seeing warframe releases being cut down for this to take place due to warframes not aging well. 

If they did an update where it was simply fixes, revisits and reworks it would be more than welcome. I'd honestly do that in Jan/Feb each year.

But having it cut into devtime? Hahaha the pitchforks and torches would be out yet again. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I think the main reason they don't do this is because of dev team size restrictions, so when they slowly release an update, it needs to have something NEW for the playerbase to sink their teeth into.

 

[Limborghini]

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

honestly I'd love to see DE slow down the creation of new Warframes, but they also need something to draw people in with new updates.

Different game entirely, but as of late Rainbow Six Siege has halved the rate of releasing new characters (from 2 per season to 1), and has instead gone back and reworked old characters and maps with every update. Siege's community has been really receptive to this, and I think Warframe would benefit from the same strategy, because people have been BEGGING for changes to old frames, mission types, and reward structures. I think the main reason they don't do this is because of dev team size restrictions, so when they slowly release an update, it needs to have something NEW for the playerbase to sink their teeth into.

The problem is that DE sees new weapons and frames  and SKINS as content.

But they are not.

All the intersting stuff was made 5+ years ago. The only newer thing I find interesting is Khora and maybe Niduss. Most the other new stuff is not memorable enough for me to even bother with the names. I guess gara is the better frost. They could have just buffed frost but...

Now we have like 2 fat guy frames... and some other bs I dont care about. :D no raids, no endgame.

[A-keras]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Raymond Holt: VINDACATION! 

 

Heh. What reference is that?

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

23 minutes ago, A-keras said:

Heh. What reference is that?

Are you kidding! Brooklyn 99!

Nine Nine!

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

That's on the players not Equinox, people tend to lean towards damage over support that's why you barely see night equinox. 

I have 2 builds one for night and one for day both subsumed metamorphosis cause maximizing one form hurts the other one for me. If they add Sevagoth mechanic to her then great but her abilitys definitely doesn't need reworks

I want to comment on this because I agree with the last paragraph a lot. My main equinox build (when I play her) revolves around her first and fourth augment, so not only am I incentivized to constantly switch forms, so as to keep up my decoy, but I dont take a penalty to my 4 each time I do swap. However, such a build obviously has some issues. I get 6 actual mod slots, and I have to have a high eff to allow for ability spam. The build is fun and works well at playing equinox how I assume she was envisioned to be played,  but it doesnt beat out straight day form equinoxes or night form.
 

Having the ability to mod each form separately allows for a lot of uniqueness in gameplay, but also adds to the fantasy of playing as a duality frame. id love to be able to throw more strength and range on day form with survivability, while focusing more on duration and range with night form, while not needing survivability but instead utility, but currently thats not a possibility. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Double repost :/ 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

triple repost :/ 

 

dont see that everyday do ya

[A-keras]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Are you kidding! Brooklyn 99!

Nine Nine!

Ah. I'm going to have to watch that one of those days. The backstreet boys song is how I learned of it.

But anyways, back onto Equinox.

I really think her Metamorphosis should be her passive, instead of being on her 1st Ability Key. How it would be activated would be, holding down any of her Ability Keys, to not only swap her form, but to use the version of the ability tied to the form she just swapped into, immediately. Otherwise, tapping the Ability Key would use an ability based on her current form. (Ex. In Night Form, tap 2, use Night Form's 2nd Ability. Hold 2, switch to Day Form and immediately use Day Form's 2nd Ability.)

It would make combing off abilities between forms easier, and frees up her 1 for a new ability. To make it even more easier, we could reduce the animation of her Metamorphosis, and not have it cost energy, only the ability activated through it would cost energy, maybe at a reduced cost to further encourage swapping her forms.