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Verdict on Void Storms? Dead content.


Kaiga

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1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

I feel like DE kinda sabotaged themselves on this: they realized that Railjack missions would be strictly inferior for just cracking relics, as they take far longer to complete than regular missions, so they added a bonus reward with juicy radiant relics attached... except they also watered that down by putting in a huge chance of getting Endo or extra traces, neither of which are especially desirable to players just trying to farm relics. I therefore agree with the general assessment that if the mode is to be considered worthwhile, it's likely going to have to let players crack open more than one Relic.

With this in mind, my suggestion would be the following:

  • Shift the current Void Storm bonus loot table to caches in Void Storm RJ missions, so that raiding caches during a Void Storm would have a chance to give us Endo, Void Traces, a Sevagoth/Epitaph part depending on the Proxima, or a Radiant relic.
  • Instead of the current Void Storm bonus, have us collectively crack open one random Radiant relic the mission gives us at the same time as the one we choose, letting us take home two rewards from up to eight choices. This should work even for players who haven't brought in a relic to begin with, who'd therefore have just the options from the random relic, and would take home one reward.

With this, hopefully the longer mission completion speed would be counterbalanced by more rewards overall: this wouldn't necessarily benefit people hunting specific Prime parts, but could definitely work for players farming Ducats and just Prime parts in general.

Also, while not related to rewards themselves, I think it's high time we ditched the reactant mechanic: not only is it single-handedly ruining Grineer Void Storm missions due to the messed-up pacing of corruption waves, it never added to missions, and has even less reason to exist now that there's this ramping difficulty in the form of random Void explosions. Really, relic missions could very well just be regular missions with random Corrupted popping in and progressively more frequent AoE, for both ground and RJ, and we'd lose nothing from that.

They're not inferior. They are different. If you look at it from a railjack perspective you have the option to open a relic now in Railjack missions. This is new and didn't exist before. This is a plus, not a negative. But people seem hell bent on complaining about it with the sole reason being efficiency. I mean let me compare. Let's say you participate in a running competition and at the end you get a free drink. Now there's person A who likes running competitions and person B who doesn't. On what planet would person B complain that the running competition gets a free drink when he can just go to the fridge to get the drink? This doesn't happen because it would be stupid.

You don't have to play Railjack, but for those of us who do being able to open relics is a very nice addition. Can there be improvements? Yes, but the common complaint here is just completely out of place. Mission A being faster than Mission B so therefore Mission B is irrelevant is an incredibly poor argument.

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11 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

They're not inferior. They are different. If you look at it from a railjack perspective you have the option to open a relic now in Railjack missions. This is new and didn't exist before. This is a plus, not a negative. But people seem hell bent on complaining about it with the sole reason being efficiency. I mean let me compare. Let's say you participate in a running competition and at the end you get a free drink. Now there's person A who likes running competitions and person B who doesn't. On what planet would person B complain that the running competition gets a free drink when he can just go to the fridge to get the drink? This doesn't happen because it would be stupid.

You don't have to play Railjack, but for those of us who do being able to open relics is a very nice addition. Can there be improvements? Yes, but the common complaint here is just completely out of place. Mission A being faster than Mission B so therefore Mission B is irrelevant is an incredibly poor argument.

It feels like you quoted me to answer an entirely different complaint made by an entirely different person. At no point did I make the claim that the addition of Void Storms was a detriment to the game or Railjack, which is what you seem to be countering here. There is, however, an undeniable difference in the speed at which we get to open our relics between the relic missions we had already have, and the Void Storm missions that were added, which makes one strictly inferior to the other from the perspective of rewards. This is, by the way, different from saying Void Storms are unenjoyable, a claim I would not agree with either as I generally liked running through them. However, when discussing the issue of content longevity and whether players have an incentive to continue doing Void Storms, speed of rewards is absolutely a factor, and is liable to lead to that bit of content getting abandoned like so many other features to the game. If a shop sells two identical products, yet one costs more than the other, you can't blame people for wanting to go for the one that is easier to obtain. In fact, getting oddly defensive over what is ultimately just a game feature will not only fail to convince people, but might even prevent valid counterarguments from being accepted if they're coming from such a place of antagonism.

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10 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It feels like you quoted me to answer an entirely different complaint made by an entirely different person. At no point did I make the claim that the addition of Void Storms was a detriment to the game or Railjack, which is what you seem to be countering here. There is, however, an undeniable difference in the speed at which we get to open our relics between the relic missions we had already have, and the Void Storm missions that were added, which makes one strictly inferior to the other from the perspective of rewards. This is, by the way, different from saying Void Storms are unenjoyable, a claim I would not agree with either as I generally liked running through them. However, when discussing the issue of content longevity and whether players have an incentive to continue doing Void Storms, speed of rewards is absolutely a factor, and is liable to lead to that bit of content getting abandoned like so many other features to the game. If a shop sells two identical products, yet one costs more than the other, you can't blame people for wanting to go for the one that is easier to obtain. In fact, getting oddly defensive over what is ultimately just a game feature will not only fail to convince people, but might even prevent valid counterarguments from being accepted if they're coming from such a place of antagonism.

Yea the sourness of other users is leaking through every comment related to the topic. So perhaps I misjudged your comment. 

Thing is you're referring to being defensive and prevent valid counter arguments. That would be a thing if the original complaint was a fair one. And it isn't.

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19 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Yea the sourness of other users is leaking through every comment related to the topic. So perhaps I misjudged your comment. 

Thing is you're referring to being defensive and prevent valid counter arguments. That would be a thing if the original complaint was a fair one. And it isn't.

No worries. I can agree that the OP is perhaps a touch reductive, as there are some incentives to running Void Storms (I personally think getting Radiant relics from them is really nice), but I do think they also make a fair criticism when comparing the speed of Void Storms to regular relic runs, Capture runs in particular. Time will tell just how successful Void Storms will be over the long term, but I'm of the opinion that they may need a touch-up in order for more players to feel like they're going to get the same returns on time invested between them and regular relic runs.

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On 2021-04-20 at 4:45 AM, Teridax68 said:

No worries. I can agree that the OP is perhaps a touch reductive, as there are some incentives to running Void Storms (I personally think getting Radiant relics from them is really nice), but I do think they also make a fair criticism when comparing the speed of Void Storms to regular relic runs, Capture runs in particular. Time will tell just how successful Void Storms will be over the long term, but I'm of the opinion that they may need a touch-up in order for more players to feel like they're going to get the same returns on time invested between them and regular relic runs.

If radiant relics also weren't available from other popular content (namely sanctuary onslaught) it would be a much better reward.

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3 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

If radiant relics also weren't available from other popular content (namely sanctuary onslaught) it would be a much better reward.

I know I am probably a minority here among the playerbase, but I HATE Sanctuary Onslaught. 

Just don't enjoy it at all. 

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On 2021-04-20 at 7:45 AM, Teridax68 said:

No worries. I can agree that the OP is perhaps a touch reductive, as there are some incentives to running Void Storms (I personally think getting Radiant relics from them is really nice), but I do think they also make a fair criticism when comparing the speed of Void Storms to regular relic runs, Capture runs in particular. Time will tell just how successful Void Storms will be over the long term, but I'm of the opinion that they may need a touch-up in order for more players to feel like they're going to get the same returns on time invested between them and regular relic runs.

I think I've said this once somewhere before in all the noise about the new RJ, but I think what it comes to is, If you still need Sevagoth, and Epitaph, and a few of the other random things added to the RJ rewards tables, and especially if you are still ranking up your RJ stuff a lot like me, then you will have a lot of use for void storm missions. They are basically a fast way to get extra bonus rewards while also ranking up in RJ, going through the proxima regions, leveling up your intrinsics, etc. 

But as a dedicated way of cracking relics, it's horrifically slow. 

I'm not sure what the best way to fix this is. Maybe break the stages of the mission up and you can crack a relic for each? Something to make it feel more rewarding to those who aren't also still grinding out basic railjack stuff, and farming Sevagoth and Epitaph and such. 

Because for me it feels rewarding, but I only recently started really digging into RJ. For me the void storms are basically giving me bonus rewards for a gamemode I already needed to delve into and am enjoying fresh. For those who have mastered RJ all or mostly, I can see how the void storms would feel they have little benefit, as there is little reason for a RJ veteran to do them once they have the new frame, apart from relics, which are going to be a slow crack compared to other mission types. 

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1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I'm not sure what the best way to fix this is.

IMO, heavily restructure how the cracking process works. Instead of having to pick up Reactant dropped by enemies like normal Fissures which is slow and causes so many issues, why not make it so the whole "Void Storm is category 5" thing is a part of the gameplay? Like make the storm a thing that moves around the map and can roll into an area. Just being inside the storm is enough to charge and crack a Relic, but the storm is caustic and will wreck your ship. You've gotta dodge hazards, shoot ghost ships and Void Echoes, repair damage and close Fissures that open inside the ship, etc., and once you've* charged up your Relic you fly out of the storm where you can pick rewards and your next Relic. Then you can dive right back into the storm and do it again. Railjack would need to be more free-roamy/open-worldy, but that's probably the direction it should be going anyways. Maybe make a whole gametype out of this instead of trying to cram Fissures in as mission modifiers.

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Many Veteran players called Void Storms as Dead on Arrival before they even got patched in.

If anything, the storms should do something like "Crack 1 Relic for each POI Cleared".

In Corpus Railjack this would be a BIG boon.

In Grineer Railjack this would force players to make strategic use of Crewship & POI Crews. But seeing how Fissures could be altered to spawn indefinitely. Might not be to bad to add.

Currently Void Storms are (Like Infested Salvage & Defection)  a whole lot of work for literal pennies/cloth scraps.

Today I cracked 12 relics (Solo)in literally half the time of 1 Void Storm (Corpus Solo).

***I got Veil Grineer Solo Storms down to about 7-10min runs.

I digress...

Honestly, I don't have much of a fix for this. Perhaps allow Void Storms to open ANY Relic (even Requiem)?

Allow players to PICK their reward based off the Refinement tier of said Relic? (Just an idea. I only want to see this for Requiem Relics tbh)

Make Void Traces a literal drop from containers and enemies during a Void storm?

Increased Credit, Endo, and Resource drops?

I can't find much in "how" to make them compelling. Once I got my sets of Sevegoth and an Epitaph I have never even "looked" at Void Storms.

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I think the only solution is to increase rewards. Like the poster before me said: Evaluate how long it takes to crack a void relic in "basic content" and in "railjack content" and multiply the rewards adjacently via "POIs". This ís a clever way to do it. I for once would like to do longer missions if I get more relics cracked at once that way.

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10 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I know I am probably a minority here among the playerbase, but I HATE Sanctuary Onslaught. 

Just don't enjoy it at all. 

Off topic but you're not alone.

I don't "Hate" Sanctuary Onslaught mode. I hate the unnessicary "Efficiency" timer added to it.

I do not understand why what is essentially an "Arcade" mode needed to have that added on.

Let us play. Let enemies escalate. Add in mini-bosses/boss rounds.

When players "Run out of Continues" or choose to extract. That's a wrap.

The efficiency aspect of it literally sucked ALL the fun out of the mode impo.

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Eh, I found Neptune Exterminate to be a pretty reliable node to play. Seems the railjack portion is always blow up 1 crewship and 2 security nodes, which I can do solo in a minute, then go in and do the mission. Got that one down to 4-5 minutes playing solo now if I ignore the poi spawns

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3 hours ago, (PSN)Zero_029 said:

Off topic but you're not alone.

I don't "Hate" Sanctuary Onslaught mode. I hate the unnessicary "Efficiency" timer added to it.

I do not understand why what is essentially an "Arcade" mode needed to have that added on.

Let us play. Let enemies escalate. Add in mini-bosses/boss rounds.

When players "Run out of Continues" or choose to extract. That's a wrap.

The efficiency aspect of it literally sucked ALL the fun out of the mode impo.

Pretty much why I hate it. 

It makes it feel like you have to use specific frames, or at least specific strats, and it makes it feel stressful. 

Due to when my breaks were spaced over the years, I only ever knew it with the efficiency timer, as you put it. And it is just the opposite of fun for me to manage that bit. 

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I like how on higher levels the void storm was so intense that it cleared rooms before I got there. I think they toned it down a notch in the latest update. Will have to check. Those void storm damage hits are pretty insane. It's like 1-2 shotting bombards.

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1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

I like how on higher levels the void storm was so intense that it cleared rooms before I got there. I think they toned it down a notch in the latest update. Will have to check. Those void storm damage hits are pretty insane. It's like 1-2 shotting bombards.

Yeah, the effects were lowered.

The screen effect now works like a hit detection: the "void effect" aims at where the Sink is. Noticeable, but no clutter.

Also not being killed when choosing an Item from a relic because you cant move for 15s.

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The Hype has died. It’s now rare to get a full squad in Void Storms, at most I only have 1 player joining in pub. Fixing Void Storms are simple.
 

  • Let us crack multiple relics in one go. I would accept that DE have to slow down current fastest missions (looking at you Neptune exterminate) to make it consistent with the rest of the available missions. 
  • Move Sevagoth and Epitaph to a different unique drop table with the same drop chance in Void Storms. It’s very demoralizing of getting garbage in a high level missions. If you have Sevagoth you have a 30% to get trash.
  • If moving sevagoth and epitaph blueprints to a new drop table isn’t an option raise the blueprint piece sell price. Let’s say sevagoth pieces can be sold for 100k credits each. Epitaph blueprint and parts will be sold at 50k credits each. Now these items are not garbage because you can sell them for a nice sum of credits.
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On 2021-04-27 at 9:42 PM, Kaiga said:

If radiant relics also weren't available from other popular content (namely sanctuary onslaught) it would be a much better reward.

ESO only lets you focus on one thing, getting the relics. The storms allow you to gather traces aswell as cracking already owned relics while gathering more radiants or bonus void traces to upgrade current non radiants. 

And when did ESO become popular? O.o

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