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Grendel feels so high maintenance for so little payoff.


Lancars
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I get the theme of glutton and all but I'm focusing more on trying to balance his mechanic then playing the game when i use him. I keep trying to figure out different things but in the end its more work then some of the other frames.

Even with high duration and efficiency I'm still hungry for energy. I have hunters and all the other ways to gain energy but having anyone in the gut seems to still drain my energy far to fast. I can't even get the ten stacks of enemies I need to make pulverize do its best and by the time i get to it my energy is nearly gone.

Then there is the fact enemies can be killed while i'm trying to absorb them so i have to fight all the other tenno for bodies to use my abilities. Or trying to get enemies to shoot me only for a saryn to CC and melt them all.

One change i'd like atleast is the energy drain doesn't start till there is over 5 enemies in the gut. Maybe then i could focus more on the fight instead of trying to run around. I tried giving this frame a good chance but its more of a pain to play.

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The constant energy drain from Grendel's kit is a huge issue. It has been a major problem since he was released and DE hasn't really done much to improve him. Honestly I'm surprised because he could be a really great frame with only a few minor changes.

1: Reduce overall energy drain from enemies in the gut (0.5 per enemy and eliminate the over time energy cost increase or at the very least reduce the rate of increase)... Cost of maintaining enemies in the gut is ridiculous.

2: Allow meatball to absorb enemies into your gut with the ground pound or by rolling over them

3: combine Nourish into a single cast buff that applies all three buffs... really doesn't make sense to me why this is separated into three annoying timers. Makes him REALLY clunky.

4: Vastly improve the damage potential of the 3.

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3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

4: Vastly improve the damage potential of the 3.

The problem with asking, is that at most levels DE cares about (i.e. Sorties and Railjack) his 3 is still usually stronger than his hold-1. It's only when you get past Steel Path (i.e. when DE stops caring) and reliably snag 6 or more enemies that hold-1 starts to outclass 3

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13 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The problem with asking, is that at most levels DE cares about (i.e. Sorties and Railjack) his 3 is still usually stronger than his hold-1. It's only when you get past Steel Path (i.e. when DE stops caring) and reliably snag 6 or more enemies that hold-1 starts to outclass 3

The real issue is that the 3 just doesn't make much sense an ability because regurgitation with the 1 can do more damage. Using enemies as projectiles just doesn't make sense when you can just suck them up instead of shooting them with the 3. 

I guess what I meant most is the 3's AOE needs to cause a damage over time effect with larger range. As a projectile ability it is really not very useful. If it caused lingering gas damage then it would at least have some utility beyond being a less effective option over just gobbling enemies with the 1. 

People dump the ability when subsuming because it is just not very good and fairly redundant within the scope of his kit.

Granted I am not an expert on Grendel but I've put a fair bit of time in with him and I've never found a build utilizing the 3 to be that useful.

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45 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

 

Granted I am not an expert on Grendel but I've put a fair bit of time in with him and I've never found a build utilizing the 3 to be that useful.

I'm even less of an expert, and his 3 feels much more convenient than his 1, just in a heuristic sense. "Tap 3 to spit enemy. Fast, goes far, does damage both to spitball and to target" versus "hold 1 for two seconds, stop moving, pose, do this close-range shotgun vomit that mostly deals damage to the spitballs themselves."

If DE are going to rework Grendel, which they should, they kinda need to solve that

Edited by TARINunit9
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8 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I'm even less of an expert, and his 3 feels much more convenient than his 1, just in a heuristic sense. "Tap 3 to spit enemy. Fast, goes far, does damage both to spitball and to target" versus "hold 1 for two seconds, stop moving, pose, do this close-range shotgun vomit that mostly deals damage to the spitballs themselves."

If DE are going to rework Grendel, which they should, they kinda need to solve that

Definitely agreed.

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He feels high maintenance to me too, but basically only because of Nourish and my desire to maintain all three of his buffs.  Once I gave up on that--made easier by the fact that all three to varying extents can be ignored--he became much more manageable.  

It also made me lose  interest in playing him, so that's not an endorsement. 😉

begin personal Grendel rant :

I'd go back to Grendel in a heartbeat if he got the capability of casting all three buffs at once, possibly by meeting a requirement.  For instance, one enemy in his gut unlocks Energy, the second unlocks Strike, and the third, Armor.  Whatever.  Although I'll be irritated if it's through an augment.  [See also: Catapult.]

Failing that, they could at least add some duration to the buffs and shave a bit off Nourish's cast time.  Less time casting, less time fiddling with the casting wheel.  More time playing.

And if they're going to do that, they may as well try to make Nourish Armor at least vaguely worthwhile.

: end personal Grendel rant

 

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I agree with OP.

Personally, I would remove his energy pool all together.

Decrease enemy damage in his stomach so he can play off his stacks more.

For Nourish, instead of energy regeneration, let him buff ability strength and efficiency. 

I actually never use Regurgitate, I would rather have him digest the enemies in his stomach, fully healing him and giving him some self-buffs. Maybe ingesting armored units will give him more armor, eximus units will grant him their aura, etc.

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23 hours ago, Lancars said:

Even with high duration and efficiency I'm still hungry for energy. I have hunters and all the other ways to gain energy but having anyone in the gut seems to still drain my energy far to fast. I can't even get the ten stacks of enemies I need to make pulverize do its best and by the time i get to it my energy is nearly gone.

I have 175% efficiency, 95% duration and 638 energy (P.flow) and I can last 30 seconds if I want keep 1/2 of my energy and 1 minute otherwise.

23 hours ago, Lancars said:

 

One change i'd like atleast is the energy drain doesn't start till there is over 5 enemies in the gut. Maybe then i could focus more on the fight instead of trying to run around. I tried giving this frame a good chance but its more of a pain to play.

That's nice suggestion. For me it could be even less than 5. I like to roll.

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Let's go over Grendel's kit.  

His 1 temporarily remove swath of enemies from the field. Has ludicrous scaling energy cost. You could just permanently remove those enemies at the same time, with much less to no energy cost, using many other room clearing options this game has.  Worthless gimmick.  

His 2 is amazing. Unfortunately you can helminth it. That means you can put it on any other Warframe with slightly more functional kit and end up with a better version of Grendel (kinda like Valkyr with Warcry). Put it on Rhino or Chroma or Mirage for very big PP damage.     

His 3 could have at least deal Corrosive damage and be a good AoE armor stripper. Nope. Toxin. Worthless.   

His 4 is absolutely worthless. Self-explanatory.  

The lynchpin here is, as OP pointed out, his energy cost. His 1 should just not cost any energy, and has another way to limit its room clearing usage. It could have a penalty to his movement/parkour speed to prevent him from zipping thru the map and eating everything.  Or a simple cap to the max number of enemies in his stomach should do it. 

His 3 should be corrosive and be an armor strip. Everyone need an armor strip nowadays.    

And his 4 should scale waaay harder. Like +100% damage per enemy in Grendel's stomach. Add a combo multuplier like Protea's turret. It should flatten anything it touches, and not uselessly jostle enemies around for 0 damage.  

Edited by Bakaguya-sama
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1 hour ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

It could have a penalty to his movement/parkour speed to prevent him from zipping thru the map and eating everything

Honestly why doesn't this already large lad get weighed down at all when he's carrying 20 people? Some of these dudes are heavily armored as well, like a Nox, Bombard, Heavy Gunner, or even basic Lancers. I'm not sure how he does it, but he needs to be stopped!

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I think that Grendel needs a reduction of her energy usage as a start, that way his kit would be less energy hungry and could work a little better.

His kit may be fun, but isn't too effective. This make him be used, in my case, when I want to just fool for a bit and not do S#&$ efficiently.

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50 minutes ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

It could have a penalty to his movement/parkour speed to prevent him from zipping thru the map and eating everything. 

This would be bad (unless it's at X enemies, for example after 10 enemies he gets slower) but:

Quote

Or a simple cap to the max number of enemies in his stomach should do it. 

Sounds fine.

1 hour ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

His 3 could have at least deal Corrosive damage and be a good AoE armor stripper. Nope. Toxin. Worthless.   

It could be joined to create corrosive or other elements, as fair I can see.

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Honestly why doesn't this already large lad get weighed down at all when he's carrying 20 people? Some of these dudes are heavily armored as well, like a Nox, Bombard, Heavy Gunner, or even basic Lancers. I'm not sure how he does it, but he needs to be stopped!

When you carry more than ~10 you get so sick of them that you will throw them up in seconds.

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7 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

His 1 temporarily remove swath of enemies from the field. Has ludicrous scaling energy cost. You could just permanently remove those enemies at the same time, with much less to no energy cost, using many other room clearing options this game has.  Worthless gimmick. 

The thing about Feast is the damage scales with both enemy level and number.  And isn't dependent on the duration they're in his stomach--so no insane energy cost if you eat and spit quickly.  Plus it's an exceptional grouping ability.  

So, pretty dependent on high enemy level and density.  But definitely not worthless, probably not a gimmick, IMO.

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