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Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)


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So at max range and with 10 enemies inside, Gloom drains 15 energy instead of 10 like it did before. Because a nerf is exactly what this ability needed.¬†ūüėĎ

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I have a suggestion cosmetically for Sevagoth. I really like how in his Agile Stance his shadow comes out behind him and does his little flex but am a little sad to see that his Noble Stance is kinda meh.

My suggestion is this: Would it be possible to have his shadow also displayed behind him in sort of a transparent flicker once or twice through the Noble Stance animation cycle? I believe it would provide a scary edgy look that many would appreciate (especially to this warframe) and give those who don't quite like the agile stance a chance to show off their shadow form as well. Even if you guys decide against it would you keep the idea in mind for say his eventual Deluxe skin or Prime variant?

Another side question is if it would be possible to add helminth abilities to his Shadow Form? This one is understandably controversial but I believe it could be really cool and add a lot of diversity in builds for players.

Also a bug I noticed while leveling him in Sanctuary Onslaught was that if you enter the portal while in Shadow Form you will remain invisible to enemies for the remainder of the mission which really breaks the game mode. This was before the hotfix so if you've already addressed that then ignore this part ;P

I love everything about this frame all in all though, he feels very well put together and is pretty versatile which I appreciate highly. Keep up the good work DE!

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NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

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I’m confused. Does Gloom now drain even more energy per enemy inside the circle on top of the passive drain? Because the big complaint is that Gloom’s energy drain is already an issue. IDK how increasing even more fixes that.

 

5 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

Is this an additional drain to its base of 10 per second? Because the last thing gloom needed is to drain more energy.

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At this moment the drain is insane yea, cause its not working the way its intended. I hope that when they release the change Danielle mentioned before, the drain is good to manage, Gloom will be done otherwise. 

Edited by xZephyrosx
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I've had quite the time with this frame really, I was following up on it since Liger's fan concept art. And I wasn't dissapointed when I got to know his abilities and I'm still having a lot of fun with them.
However, I had my doubts about the exalted Shadow form.  I still do. 

The bright side:

The frame's design is perfect for someone that loves survival missions.

  • Reap:¬†A very good damage + debuff ability. Even if it doesn't kill enemies by itself, we can combine it with¬†Sow,¬†which feels very good as a design choice to make players use all the potential a frame can have. The debuff that it inflicts enemies with makes this ability even more useful than other first abilities.
  • Sow:¬†The combo with¬†Reap¬†is what makes this ability really really good. The radial damage bursting out from enemies can make this a deadly ability in overwhelming situations. And even if enemies stay alive, the dot effect combined with¬†Reap's¬†debuff could potentially finish the job with some viral or corrosive stats or with the player helping out with some gunfire.
  • Gloom:¬†Now this is something new, something refreshing. Dream ability for all survival and higher level missions. The life steal is perfect, the constant slow makes sure that no matter how many enemies are around, there won't be enough time for them to kill Sevagoth if he steals life from something constantly.
  • Exalted Shadow:¬†A tanky and strong form of the frame, having it's own cc, lifesteal and debuff ability it can use. There's ALMOST nothing wrong with it.

The problems:

Sow, which is another ability that inflitcs some effects on enemies for a certain duration. And yet it is another ability that is not recastable before the duration on every single enemy expires. This is just a minor problem with the kit, but it's still annoying. It either needs to be recastable with duration refreshing or with some other mechanic.

Gloom, dream ability for every high level survival mission. But the energy cost... well let's just say that streamline alone will not suffice in any situation to keep up with the energy consumption rate. Now after 30.0.6 hotfix, it got even worse. The previously fixed, and with some mods managable, energy cost became dependent on how much enemies are in range. Now this isn't a problem when there are no enemies around, you can freely carry the effect to other rooms, but when enemies are constantly coming in, like in survival, interception or defense, the energy consumption kicks up to the sky, and it will stay up there, because enemies won't magically stop spawning, only between waves.
I highly suggest reviewing the math and values behind this ability, because it's just insanely energy hungry.

The biggest problem with the frame however is with his fourth ability, the exalted Shadow form. Now don't get me wrong, the Shadow IS amazing. It's tanky, has high range crowd control, lifesteal and can even debuff enemies. The problem with it is the ridiculously low effort a player needs to make in order to cast the ability and remain in the Shadow form. Once someone has a decent build, the difference between the time spent in the Shadow and the time spent in the frame itself becomes very noticable. We only need to cast Reap and Sow like 2 times and we already maxed out the Deathwell and we can go and don't give a damn about anything but the Shadow and it's exalted melee claws. The frame has such a good design and with little tweaks all his abilities could make the finest kit together in the game for a frame that's all about sustain and aoe damage. The Shadow form takes this all away.

The effort we need to make needs to be increased, because this just makes Reap and Sow almost entirely forgetable.

Better idea: Add a mechanic that could allow us to release the Shadow just like Wukong's clone. The Shadow would be able to use it's abilities and Sevagoth could fight alongside it, commanding it with Reap when it's free. This could make the frame and the kit even more interesting and would fix the problem mentioned about this ability above.


 

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34 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

Hang on, so you actually made Gloom¬†harder¬†to sustain in active combat? Previous default cost peaked at 10/s but now it¬īs 15/s (1.5 x 10). Sure, it no longer consumes energy outside combat, but 10 enemies to peak is an extremely low number. Particularly so at higher¬†levels.

Edited by Jarriaga
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24 minutes ago, xZephyrosx said:

At this moment the drain is insane yea, cause its not working the way its intended. I hope that when they release the change Danielle mentioned before, the drain is good to manage, Gloom will be done otherwise. 

The change is worse. Before the change, default drain peaked at 10/s. After the change it goes to 15/s (1.5 x 10).¬† It doesn¬īt drain outside combat but it¬īs a problem in Defense and Survival.

Edited by Jarriaga
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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

soon hopefully

 

Edited by --RV--arm4geddon-117
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Just now, Cris0407 said:

But now we can regenerate Energy while Gloom is active via Zenurik Orb thing and Energizing Dash :)

This only works when there are no enemies in range ... As soon as enemies enter the Gloom radius the effects are stopped. 

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1 minute ago, Cris0407 said:

But now we can regenerate Energy while Gloom is active via Zenurik Orb thing and Energizing Dash :)

Because Naramon players use Zenurik...

Not to mention, in theory, Energizing Dash will stop the moment a single enemy is in range.

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Just now, xZephyrosx said:

This only works when there are no enemies in range ... As soon as enemies enter the Gloom radius the effects are stopped. 

Well dayum...

Nvm :/

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lolwut

am I reading this right that Gloom now incentivises you having zero enemies in its (expanding, mod-dependent) radius for 100% free lifesteal

>tests, this is indeed the case

so I guess you either want range to make this ability harder to manage (always fun) or for me to just toggle it on and off constantly to manage its range (always even more fun)

lmao what a terrible idea

Reap changes are nice I guess

E: I'll also point out that this doesn't actually make gloom perform any better at all (the slow is still very weak without heavy investment) and makes its gameplay arguably even worse

Edited by MrFrog9
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On 2021-04-15 at 10:03 PM, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

Baruuk is literally a worse version of Excalibur. I think we've kind of hit the limit on what Warframes can do for the time being.

There are 45 other Warframes. Find another one you actually like if this one brings nothing to the table for you.

Comparing Excalibur with Baruuk? You can 1-2 punch Lv 130+ Steel Path enemies with a proper +300% Pwr Str Baruuk and withstand every kind of incoming damage with 20+ daggers and their 90% DR (you will never have your health scratched), while Excalibur is a snack on a golden plate, who is not able to kill them as effectively as Baruuk.

As this guy here shows, this is just the avg. of things you will achieve with Baruuk:

Can you show me an Excalibur wreckage clip with the same effiency?

And for the "limit", you can always combine. There is no rule that you have to do exclusive damage with either exalted weapons, side arms, melee or primaries in generall.

Even a simple status proccer can raise the bar to even higher levels of destruction.

Edited by iHeuksal
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1 hour ago, --RV--arm4geddon-117 said:

before at max range 175 efficiency it was 2.5 en/sec so let's say 100 seconds = 250 usage

even with the full "tweak" coming, it'll be at max range, at 175 eff 0.38 capped at 10 = 3.8 per sec, 100 seconds = 380 usage

No offence but TWEAKS make something better , not worse...The energy issue tweak would be that instead of peaking at 10en per sec unmodded, it peaks at 5 , not 15 ( 1.5 x 10 )

 

reread the post, the drain will stay at .75 base per enemy so with 175% eff it'll be brought down to .1875 per enemy

overall the ability will cost 25% less at max drain (10 e/s maximum -> 7.5 e/s maximum)

can't really blame you since i also misunderstood what they were saying at first lmfao

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5 minutes ago, MrFrog9 said:

reread the post, the drain will stay at .75 base per enemy so with 175% eff it'll be brought down to .1875 per enemy

overall the ability will cost 25% less at max drain (10 e/s maximum -> 7.5 e/s maximum)

can't really blame you since i also misunderstood what they were saying at first lmfao

thank God , i must admit i had a blonde moment, in that case it'll be a small improvement but nonetheless, still appreciated

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The changes seem good, but I'm disappointed that Shadow Claws still use Sevagoth's Mods and not the Shadow mods.

It's great that you can mod them individually but having the Claws use Sevagoth's mods greatly voids that feature because we are still building Sevagoth towards something the Shadow uses.
 

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Hey there!

 

I wanted to start off by saying I absolutely love the design of Sevagoth, love the gameplay and his abilities.  There is one thing however, which I would say might need some tweaking:

Gloom has these very dark and obscuring effects on your Sentinel.  I feel like the effect blocks the camera a bit too much, making it very difficult to see what's happening when you move with it active (I'm running in the image, this is where Sentinel normally flies when running straight):7RhXjWt.jpegI think either making the effects on your Sentinel not visible, or changing them and making them less opaque may be the way to go.

Another fix which would affect other areas of the game, one which I would really love, would be the option to hide your sentinel from your own field of view.  Giving an option to hide your own sentinel in the options menu would fix the problem completely!  Personally, I find the Sentinel does block my view in normal Gloom-less gameplay sometimes as well, so this could get two birds with one stone.  

 

A random bug which I sometimes notice as well in regards to Sevagoth's Shadow, is sometimes his arms stay behind him in the animation he uses while running, but even while you are using your melee abilities.  He still lunges his body forward in the way he would if he was swinging his claws to attack, but his arms stay behind him.  Doesn't happen all the time, but I definitely have noticed it a couple times.

 

Lastly, mostly a question, is it going to be possible to subsume abilities onto Sevagoth's Shadow itself?  I find myself not using Death's Harvest too frequently due to its lower range, so being able to toss on Roar or another ability would spice the Shadow gameplay up a bit more!  I'm not sure about other players, but I mostly use the shadow for the melee stance vs the abilities, maybe this would give more push to use the abilities to other like-minded players.

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, Rovaeden said:

The problem is that he cannot fill his Death Well on Steel Path, his abilities just dont do a damn thing (at 175 power strength anyway)

Have you tried using the ability and then... killing the enemies? With a weapon?

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4 minutes ago, Satrical said:

Hey there!

 

I wanted to start off by saying I absolutely love the design of Sevagoth, love the gameplay and his abilities.  There is one thing however, which I would say might need some tweaking:

Gloom has these very dark and obscuring effects on your Sentinel.  I feel like the effect blocks the camera a bit too much, making it very difficult to see what's happening when you move with it active (I'm running in the image, this is where Sentinel normally flies when running straight):7RhXjWt.jpegI think either making the effects on your Sentinel not visible, or changing them and making them less opaque may be the way to go.

Another fix which would affect other areas of the game, one which I would really love, would be the option to hide your sentinel from your own field of view.  Giving an option to hide your own sentinel in the options menu would fix the problem completely!  Personally, I find the Sentinel does block my view in normal Gloom-less gameplay sometimes as well, so this could get two birds with one stone.  

 

A random bug which I sometimes notice as well in regards to Sevagoth's Shadow, is sometimes his arms stay behind him in the animation he uses while running, but even while you are using your melee abilities.  He still lunges his body forward in the way he would if he was swinging his claws to attack, but his arms stay behind him.  Doesn't happen all the time, but I definitely have noticed it a couple times.

 

Lastly, mostly a question, is it going to be possible to subsume abilities onto Sevagoth's Shadow itself?  I find myself not using Death's Harvest too frequently due to its lower range, so being able to toss on Roar or another ability would spice the Shadow gameplay up a bit more!  I'm not sure about other players, but I mostly use the shadow for the melee stance vs the abilities, maybe this would give more push to use the abilities to other like-minded players.

Thanks!

Something I thought about after posting, Sevagoth's Shadow uses his default helmet skin, no matter which actual helmet you have on Sevagoth itself.  Will this be the norm, or will his shadow gain access to alternate helmets when he himself is wearing them?

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I'm not gonna say Sevagoth is perfect, he definitely needs some tweaks to put him in a better place, but overall he's pretty strong. His Reap and Sow could use bit of a damage increase, Gloom is absurdly strong, and his Shadow Form is even more absurd. Death's Embrace has monstrous CC and grouping capabilities, while his claws, both with a light attack and heavy attack build, can shred enemies. I found Death's Well incredibly easy to fill up, I mean like maxing it out in a few seconds.

 

Also his passive, like...you're effectively immortal, I have yet to "die" in Steel Path in the rare occasion that I do "die".

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  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)
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