Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)

[Obdezat]

BUG : Epitaph doesn't trigger Arcane Awakening on reloading its magazine of 1

It should have a 60% percent chance for +150% damage for 24s EVERY single shot.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I have my problems with this frame, but I can't think about anything besides how annoying it is that you can't revive while your passive is active. If there aren't 5 enemies around, (which can happen, especially if you die to environmental hazards like void storms), you have to (assuming your teammates are bad people and don't revive you) wait there for your timer to run out before you can revive yourself. While Inaros' passive is worse in every way, at least it lets you skip the bleed out timer and revive yourself.

[Totterson]

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

 l like how you guys made the only redeeming factor about Sevagoth arguably worse with the update when swarmed and once again promised to fix it later. Guess I'll throw my 16 forma Sevagoth into the freezer till this change cuz he'll never be my 12 forma Baruuk, who can:

~Renew serene storm without having to turn it off

~Have serene storm last longer at base before renewal cuz why not

~Lack janky movement altogether

~Survive better without needing life steal or a shadow

~Punch through walls without needing Embrace to get enemies stuck on said wall or even requiring Primed Reach

Still a lot of work to do even after you fix Gloom. 2x shadow movement speed on Reap wasn't anywhere close to a problem since it moved more fluidly than a player could ever hope to that doesn't play Wukong. 😒

[BRZZAFK]

I hope they address the issues of his 4 being too slow . Not just his movement is slow but every skill cast speed is slow.  And the range of the claw is too short even  with mod. Playing the shadow dont make me feel like a angry ghost but a floating mop.

[-Milmo-]

Let us subsume abilities onto Sevagoth's shadow. Also gloom drains too much energy.

[Velaethia]

6 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thanks to your feedback here we have just put out a hotfix on PC with the following Sevagoth changes and fixes:

• Increased Sevagoth’s Armor from 110 to 150.
• Added functionality to now ‘Hold’ Sevagoth’s Reap on cast to speed up the Shadow by 2x.
• Made improvements towards Sevagoth’s Reap movement to alleviate the Shadow becoming stuck in numerous situations. He may still get stuck in some cases, but his movement should be less jerky and should no longer try to dig his head into a wall.
• Sevagoth’s Gloom now consumes 0.75 Energy per second (base) for each enemy within Glooms range up to a maximum of 10 enemies. Additional enemies in the radius will be slowed, but not increase the cost. Equip Efficiency Mods (Streamline, etc) to reduce!
• Added custom sound when entering Sevagoth’ pre-death Tombstone. 
• Fixed Sevagoth’s Shadow breaking Railjack Battle Mods icon and button callout. 
• Fixed Sevagoth gaining permanent invisibility if temporary effect expires while in Shadow form.
• Another fix towards Sevagoth not going into Shadow form after death if Sevagoth previously died in Archwing.
• Fixed incorrect loadout showing when Mod Linking a loadout for Sevagoth's Shadow.
   

Consoles will be receiving this in the future! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts about Sevagoth. 

These are some good changes. Here are more that is needed.

Needed Changes:

• Sow should be recastable resetting previous instances. 
• Increases base range of Sow and Gloom to 20m.
• Gloom should no longer have a charge up time. 
• Activate Exalted Shadow with less than 100% Soul Well. Similar functionality as Baruuk's exalted weapon.
• Gloom should have a base slow of 40-50% with 100% ability strength.
• Consume needs functionality changes it is currently very buggy and hard to control. Suggestion: Make it like Atlas' 1 key. 
• Shadow's Claw should base their attack on Shadow's ability strength NOT Sevagoth.
• Allow the use of kid mode (Operator) without disabling shadow. 
• Soul well needs to partially fill based on damage not just kills. Gloom's description seems to imply this but it does not function. 
• Fix visual bugs and inconsistency with shadow such as not visually attacking with claws. Awkward sneak animation, etc.
• Fix visual clutter caused by gloom if you have a sentinel companion. 
• Fix affinity distribution when using shadow.
• Noticed a new bug. I can no longer use heavy attack on shadow.

These are changes that Sevagoth NEEDS to be a fully functioning warframe. Most of these deal with functionality and build diversity.

Wanted Changes: 

• Passive should activate even if the target is immune to one shot mechanics. (Bosses).
• Reap should be able to hit enemies multiple times.
• Shadow should be unkillable while passive is activated.
• Reunite should create a knockback effect if pressed manually rather than being forced out.
• Passive shadow should be able to access Embrace.
• Shadowclaws need a base attack range of 2.0-3.0
• Increase Sevagoth movement to 1.0
• Increase Sevagoth Energy to 150
• Increase Sevagoth Health from 100 to 150
• Increase Shadow Health from 100 to 200

These are changes Sevagoth could use to become a GOOD warframe. These will offset a lot of the issues that Seva has especially in steel path making him competitive with other similar "immortal" warframes such as Inaros, Nidus, Baruuk. 

Edit: Other commenters let me know if I missed anything I can update.

I get Xaku wasn't fixed in a day or a week for that matter. Gotta make small changes and reassess and eventually they get where they need to be. Hoping to main Sevagoth once he's fully fleshed out. <3 

[Leqesai]

10 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

And the claws actually can cleave through enemies without primed reach, it's just that you need to get close to the enemies. A buff on its attack range would be nice, even though Embrace can fix the range problem by pulling enemies in front of him.

Furthemore primed reach is not remotely necessary due to Shadow's kit being specifically designed to pull targets into range of the claws. The person you quoted appears to have very little actual education with how the kit works. The claws are incredibly powerful.

In Steel Path I don't really -need- the claw DPS for most things. I just save up my meter until an acolyte spawns then destroy them in just a few seconds without even using Shadow's 3rd ability to boost damage.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

Idunno, you kinda sus

Thanks for posting this. I've been using Sevagoth in Steel Path as well and I've had no issues. The person you quoted is either trolling or has no idea what they are talking about.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'm just here for the word "gompy." That so perfectly encapsulates the experience of playing Shadow form. I will treasure it. 

[Rovaeden]

3 hours ago, ElecDeathblade said:

Have you tried using the ability and then... killing the enemies? With a weapon?

I have.
The Death Well does not, in my gameplay tests, fill anywhere near as fast as the video you sourced.
KimThought claims they are using the same build I am using (Brozime) but my experience and testing was not similar to this video at all.

However, while this video shows the Death Well being filled up, it is NOT being filled up by Sevagoth killing mobs WITH HIS POWERS, thus proving my point. His powers do nothing on their own without a full compliment of Steel Path viable equipment.

Again, any frame can handle starchart which is why starchart is rarely used anymore as a barometer of power for ranking frames.

My contention stands, that with 15 forma invested, Sevagoth had damn well better be able to eat steel path for breakfast with nothing but his own kit. He can't and is therefore no better than any other frame that can get through steel path with guns and melee.

For the Forma, not worth the effort.

 

[kyori]

We should be able to use Shadow even if the death meter is only 1% filled. It will only mean we can use it for the duration of that 1%, if you get what I mean. I don't see why it is locked behind more-than-75%-filled.

I also don't see why Gloom need to gradually increase energy consumption and the range gradually increase. It's obvious telling people a downside is needed for Gloom for balance sake but don't know what downside to give, so went with the present one. 

[Velaethia]

So haven't done steel path  yet since the patch but that buff to the energy cost of gloom is helping a lot relevelling in hydron. No longer running out of energy constantly with max eff (how it should be)

[kyori]

7 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

So what you mean is what I saw in my Arsenal stats is wrong? The actual stats is 5x more of those seen in my Arsenal???

If it's such terrible mistake, then I hope it is fixed tomorrow. How are players going to play Sevagoth while waiting for that near future to come?

[Vocrux]

I don't know if it's a bug but in Shadow Form.

- If i mod him with 3 Umbral Mods, and its still squishy. (81.4% DR)

- When i change to Shadow Form (no Primed Flow) i would get 85 Energy, but when i add Primed Flow i will only get 50 Energy instead of 212 (or 213)

Other Suggestion:

- The Shadow Form needs tweaking.
   For a melee-based form the Sprint Speed is so low given its an Exalted Form, maybe on par with Loki or Wisp, 1.25 or 1.2 would work on him.

- At least give us Embrace when the passive has been activated.
  Consume is to far when you miss a target and before you can line up for that one last enemy the passive expires.

-  Make Reap seeks target when using Melee.
   We can't redirect the Shadow when we are using Melee. or make it tap to follow the reticle and hold to seek targets.

 

 

[(XBOX)LukasWolfz]

Hello tennos, well my opinion I honestly found it frustrating for a Warframe to cost 16 forms and to be like that against high levels technically the only useful skill was the third one that still doesn't have those things.

 He has little armor and health, and his ability 3 only served to slow enemies down because life recovery cannot sustain him against very strong enemies, his clenches exalted despite being strong still manages to be weaker than some melee weapons. .

 The ghosts liked it a lot but I thought the second skill could have something more

 The gameplay with him becomes extremely tiring because I can't stop hitting even a second against high levels I think I could play with him to get a little better.

 

 In my opinion, there was a fragile picture without much to offer.

[ColdCremator]

On 2021-04-19 at 10:47 PM, Hexidextrous said:

Anyone here remember Johnny 13 from Danny Phantom? I cannot help but notice that Sevagoth is like a Warframe version of Johnny 13. Like this!

-Ghostly being

-Has a shadow with a mind of its own that can be sent out to attack people from afar.

-Shadow curses others (not exactly bad luck though, then again, having a Tenno show up to whomp you is pretty bad luck).

Anyone else notice this?

 

Yeah, I can kinda see that.  I'm more caught up on the fact that, much like the Grim Reaper is symbolically, Sevagoth is basically a ghost farmer. He Sows "death seeds," he Reaps enemy souls, Reaping Sowed enemies make those death seeds bloom, his debuff is literally called Death's Harvest. Gloom is the only thing dropping the ball, though I have ideas where it plays on this theme.

As for my own thoughts:

Reap is mostly okay since its Sow synergy makes it scale, but in practice the synergy seems unreliable, especially since we do not know the actual radius of its bloom explosion. Does it even affect the enemy it is on? In practice with clusters I get anything between instant kills and mere tickles more often than not. Plus it is Radiation damage and not True damage, unlike Sow, which does hurts its viability, even versus Radiation weak enemies. It has no real synergy with Gloom either, since Gloom gives life steal no matter how you do it. You can't call it a synergy if that's just what Gloom does.

• Fix the explosion damage consistency.
• Synergy with Gloom: enemies marked by Death's Harvest that are killed while inside the radius of Gloom release a pulse of absolute despair that lowers the damage of other DH marked enemies by XX%.

I initially wanted to change the Radiation damage to True damage, but aside from dealing with armor such a change seems excessive, considering how it's mainly a consistency issue affecting its damage. Plus, lowering enemy damage would help deal with Sevagoth's mild squishy-ness w/o going overboard.

Sow's primary problem is that it cannot be recast while active. Seriously?! We're planting "death seeds" (insert 'it ain't much, but it's honest work' meme) and we've got a refractory period? Remove that limitation immediately and it becomes decent. That being said, just like with Inaros the low amount of tick damage it does, especially since it decreases in damage with distance from Sevagoth. It also has no real synergy with Gloom.

• Allow Sevagoth to recast the ability while it is active, refreshing any currently affected enemies and afflicting new enemies within range.
• Synergy with Gloom:  Reap/Sow bloom damage and AoE are added to Sow's damage ticks and persist for the remainder of the ability's duration if activated within the radius of Gloom.

This would make Sow better to actually use since you can recast it, and the proposed synergy with Gloom give it a real damage function. Even if being able to recast it is not implemented, the synergy being implemented would compensate greatly for it.

Gloom is alright, even with the strength requirements. DE is already working on fixing the energy drain and capping it to .75 per enemy per second (up to 7.5 e/s at 10+ enemies), and with the above proposed synergies it would have more fun functions besides giving life steal. Also it would fully embrace Farmer Sevagoth, yee haw lol.

 

Now, the Shadow is another story. It, as everyone else noted, is pretty clunky but also pretty fun.

It's annoying that you are locked out of all but Consume while bleeding out, but it's a balancing choice. Embrace into BO Consume would be too powerful, probably.

Embrace is okay. If it has a slightly wider cone, it'd be better.

Consume is incredibly janky, though. More often than not you just miss, even if you aim. Oddly enough, Consume while bleeding out has been significantly more consistent.

Death's Harvest I understand why it exists, considering Sevagoth's Reap calls upon it, but it is unfortunate that you cannot stack it with Reap's debuff.

The biggest thing against Shadow for me, however, is that its abilities do not also have synergies with each other. For example, some ideas:

• Death's Harvest + Consume synergy = gain temporary stacking armor/damage reduction by Consuming marked enemies. This buff can be passed to Sevagoth,
• Embrace + Death's Harvest synergy = all enemies marked by Death's Harvest within 20m of either Shadow or Sevagoth can be Embraced to his location regardless of Shadow's casting orientation/reticle position
• Embrace + Consume synergy = Consuming an Embraced enemy releases its damage in a 5m blast. Other Embraced enemies within range of this blast release 1 blast of their own.

[Gemini145]

Spoiler

 

You guys allergic to fun or something? The 10/s drain works fine. Now the nerf changes it to 15/s which makes it very diffcult to maintain without 175% efficiency (because you don't just use one ability the whole time.) And gloom isn't even breaking-game level OP. Like, I understand the nerf to melee or Kuva Bramma, but this? 

It is hard to love this game and be civil while all you do is to against player and take the fun stuff away.

On 2021-04-20 at 3:37 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Based on some great community feedback we have a few changes below

I don't think players want gloom to be nerfed. Are you devs a bunch of cowards too damn afraid to leave a dev comment about the changes? 

Edit: A word or two to let players know this isn't a complete nerf? Lack of information causes misunderstandings. And I won't expect everyone to test it out and firgure it out by themselves. 

P.S. It is safe to assume the drain stays at maximum longer than it stays at a lower cost since in steel path mission you would normally encounter a large number of enemies at once.

Edit: Want to come back and complete my feedback: The change to how energy drains(per enemy per second) is good. If you use narrowed minded to shorten the range of gloom, it actually works better than the previous version. But it also limit you to close range combat. And in cases where range is needed (for other abilities), the cost from 10/s to 15/s is still a nerf. 

 

Edit after 30.0.7: "from increasing to 1.5 per enemy" I thought it was from infinitely increasing -> 1.5 per enemy LOL

The drain is now 7.5/s.

[VoidArkhangel]

"Sev is weak"

Spoiler

 

Yeah... what was I about to say? Right, the only problems here are Gloom's casting speed and the Shadow's movement speed (on exalted mode) also the heavy attack tends to miss even if you are almost hugging the enemy idk why.

There are a lot of problems like the animations not playing at all or missing death well charges and those are related to public matches only and, well, if you are testing basic builds without being the host you are doing something wrong.

Also you didn't spent 15 forma on Sev only, do you? You don't say I've spent 10 forma on Excalibur, its 4 on Exca and 6 on the blade, certainly the blade is part of Excal but you treat it like separate entities and most importantly: He isn't a primed frame nor a umbra so as always it must cost a lot of forma to reach its potential and you have to multiply that by 3.

[Velaethia]

2 hours ago, Gemini145 said:

From the hotfix 30.0.6

What? We're y'all getting that the new max it 15/s??? How in your universe does 10x 0.75 equal 15? I am incredibly confused.  It should cap out at 7.5/s base which is 25% better than before the change. Still prob could be better. It seems fine in levelling Hydron but Hydron is fairly low level and gives you a break every round to recoup energy that things like survival won't give. 

[Dragazer]

6 hours ago, Velaethia said:

These are some good changes. Here are more that is needed.

Needed Changes:

• Shadow's Claw should base their attack on Shadow's ability strength NOT Sevagoth.

Will have to strongly disagree on this. If it used Shadow's ability str then Growing Power and Energy Conversion would no longer affect the claw dmg. You should be building high str on Sevagoth himself to take advantage of the slow from gloom anyways.

[Velaethia]

1 minute ago, Dragazer said:

Will have to strongly disagree on this. If it used Shadow's ability str then Growing Power and Energy Conversion would no longer affect the claw dmg. You should be building high str on Sevagoth himself to take advantage of the slow from gloom anyways.

The claws are used by shadow. Should draw from shadow's stats. It's logical. 

[Dragazer]

1 minute ago, Velaethia said:

The claws are used by shadow. Should draw from shadow's stats. It's logical. 

The ability is casted from Sevagoth himself. His claws gain dmg from Sevagoth's level ups not his shadows.

[Velaethia]

33 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

The ability is casted from Sevagoth himself. His claws gain dmg from Sevagoth's level ups not his shadows.

It is the weapon of his shadow not Sevagoth

[.002.]

Sevagoth review after the first changes.

I have a 3 umbra build "2 on sevagoth and 1 on shadow" and i believe 19 forma in total on everything 

Stats:
Personally I think he needs more into stats and he'd be perfect here, I think 150-200 health and 200-300 armor on base sevagoth would be about right for him, the move from 110 to 150 armor didnt make a super noticeable difference for me, For his shadow the armor is perfect all id really recommend is a boost to health 200-250 base since his shadow is suppose to be more tanky and since its a special mode you enter via special ability resource and or dying. Now the base energy i didnt have a major problem with on both Sevagoth and his Shadow but i can see how other people can, i also dont mind the base sprint speed but i run around with amalgam serration so i dont notice it. Shields are fine they do their job 

Abilities: 

Passive: I really like the passive only issue is it can be hard to control and actually hit enemies at times 

Reap: I like the changes they did to it and i personally dont have any real gripes about it currently 

Sow: This ability could use more damage when used in conjunction with Reap, it costs a bit too much energy for the damage it does otherwise i only use it for filling the soul gauge 

Gloom: I personally just don't like this ability at all, i can do what it does more effectively using other methods so my input on this one probably isn't the most constructive, though i can say the energy changes definitely a good direction for it.

Shadow:

Embrace: I really like this ability and think it works fine and does its job 

Consume: Only real gripe i have with this is it can be hard to aim and control otherwise i like the ability

Death's Harvest: energy cost is a bit much on this but otherwise I think this ability is fine

Shadow overall: I like the damage he does so that was fine for me, the claw range could be increased considering how large they are and the size of the shadow, The overall survivability for it is kind of lacking in the health department since its a exalted warframe that you access via special resource gauge and the fact you use it to resurrect yourself, in higher level missions it can be pretty challenging to survive with, I see people complain about the movement speed of it, again i didnt personally mind but i can see why people would have issues with it along with his base energy pool. 


To sum everything up I am really enjoying this warframe and hope to see you guys continue to improve him I was a really big fan of the concept even before he was announced 
 

[metvincent]

1 hour ago, Velaethia said:

It is the weapon of his shadow not Sevagoth

While I can understand that train of thought for lore reasons, Imma go with Dragazer on this one. As he or she said, you want Strength on his default form anyway. And that also means you can cache strength with Pax Charge and conditional mods like Growing Power and Energy Conversion. Meaning you only bother to stack all of those once before you cast his 4 to get that power strength value until you're out of his shadow form.

Can you elaborate on how would you go about making it so his claws take his Shadow mod values? For example, would you make his claws a channeled ability?