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Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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The overall frame is nice. So I don't have much to say.
Ability synergy is good in general. Can do a lots of damage without being a overkill nuke. Which is more or less balance to my point of view. 

Survival is above casual, as you can abuse the switch between Shadow & Frame without including the Passive making sort of immortal. And with Rolling Guard working on all 3 forms, that make his almost impossible to die with a decent gameplay while using him.

I got not much to say for what is positive as its just good at it is. 

Although there is 2 important negative side of it. 

Gloom ability :
Even if Gloom is only 1 out of 7 ability. This ability is the one that go to Helminth. From that point I believe we if important to not how worthy is this ability. 
The ability is great on paper. But the energy cost is just impossible to play with , except if we scarified everything on efficiency, and make the ability itself pointless in use from being to weak anyway. 
 
Even Lavos that got not energy cost is sorta useless with that ability 


The duration of the ability = The cooldown. And the ability reset itself. Nerf immediately the range over duration.


Sevagoth Shadow movement
The movement are bad, it just don't feel like Warframe with all the fast action & different movement. 
And when combined with melee attack. It just come to a boring end. Cause the attack animation is too simple making it very very repetitive. 
The slide attack doesn't feel like a slide at all. 
The jump is very poor in height, I could barely jump the little step in Ballroom simulacrum. 
The movement speed is quite slow but it's ok, though seem that we can't use the sprint option. 

The shadow has a lot of potential, so a rework would be welcome. 

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Hm, Sevagoth is really squishy against Veil Proxima Grineer.

Anyways, abilities:

Death Well
- Reliance on killing enemies affected by Reap/Sow to fill it means 1vs1 fights might deny Sevagoth of their Exalted Shadow
- Probably needs passive chance of minor gain on enemy kills in range (kill a lot more to fill, independent of energy)
- Potentially affect Sevagoth's survivability based on Death Well's fullness?

=========

Reap/Sow
+ Reap following reticle on aim is neat!
+ Very, very responsive abilities!
+ Reap/Sow combo for explosion is fun at lower levels
- However, this combo doesn't feel like it does much on higher level enemies
+ Sow synergizes well with Gloom for healing
- Though at higher levels, enemies will deal more damage than Sow's per tick damage. At that point, unless the player retreats, they're gonna get shredded quickly.
- At higher levels they only exist to mark enemies for filling the Death Well

Gloom
+ Interesting survival mechanic (it's neat!). But at higher levels, it relies on weapon ability to consistently deal damage
- "... siphoning their lifeforce for the Death Well" doesn't appear to be working. If it did, it would alleviate the first point I made of the Death Well
- For higher level content, the high drain + small maximum range forces builds to lean on efficiency, range, and duration just so that Sevagoth can poke their head out for a bit.

Exalted Shadow
The fact that you can recast it at any point while the Death Well is full makes this ability quietly tactical! Kinda like Operators actually.
+ Second warframe you can mod is neat
- Low energy pool relative to ability costs (I blame Death's Harvest)
- Unsure of how the Death Well drains relative to this ability

=========

Death's Harvest
- Duration is really short, barely knew what it did initially
- Costs a lot of energy for the duration of the debuff.

=========

EDIT: Design-wise Sevagoth is in a good spot. Scaling with content-wise, their abilities fall short.

Edited by DSMK2
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Could you please change Sevagoth's 3rd ability - Gloom from a CHANNELING ability into a DURATION BASED ability? Like what Nezha, Xaku and Ember had with their channeling abilities.

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5 hours ago, TheMightyDungeonMaster said:

 I have put 16 forma on Sevagoth, (main frame/shadow form/claws) two of which were umbral, and im giving a fair shot on my new main frame, Tested on healthy amounts on Kuva survival and other game-modes in steel-path, and i can SAFELY SAY this is one of the only Warframes that require NO changes, as i feel he was released in a comfy state.

 He has been released in a state where the first impressions with him were amazing (a sentiment seemed to be shared by a lot of people), even if you want to go head on building Sevagoth, you have to be prepared for the forma hell that is building him. And, after so much investment, you get a solid frame, at which his power level is comparable to something akin to Nidus, which i'd also argue is one of the most well-designed warframes. All of his abilities work organically among each other, none of them can be deemed replaceable, bad, or even overpowered.

 This is a Warframe that doesn't trivialize content (Limbo) or is completely bonkers strong on current content (Saryn), but dare i say, a well-balanced character, that stands alongside Nidus as probably one of the most well-designed warframes to exist now, althrough this is subjective.

I love both Nidus and Inaros and I was hoping to enjoy Sevagoth but I have to say he feels extremely clunky to play.
I am curious about your acceptance of him. Why do you feel that his kit works well?
Would you screenshot and share you build pls?

I feel like Sevagoth would be much more interesting if he
* Had a larger health pool and
* Used his Health in place of energy.

I feel like the risk / reward gameplay of burning life to use powers which in turn drain life from enemies is a much more interesting mechanic.

Given that you have played him much more than I have (I could not even be bothered to forma him once. I got him to max rank and dumped him back in the toy box) how would you feel about his mechanic if it worked in that way?
 

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Personally, I think Sevagoth is a solid frame! Well done on his execution! However, he’s not without some...tiny issues. For this post I want to address them and propose solutions.

 

1. His ability descriptions sometimes lie. Most notable in Reap, it states something about surviving enemies taking DoT from Death’s Harvest, the shadow’s 3. I’ve tested this extensively, it is false, even both ways. 
Solution: Review abilities and remove additional confusing phrasing

 

2. Sow is in theory a great ability, as it is a staple for Sevagoth’s kit. Unfortunately it’s damage and AoE combo is somewhat lackluster.The base ability does true damage, which means it bypasses EVERY resistance, including shields and armor. This is good on low levels, not so much high. Additionally, by using 2 then 1, Shadow creates a percentage based blast from enemies it passes through. This would be great...if that too did true damage to help build up the well of death.

Solution: Sow+Reap combo now ignores defenses, allowing for more consistent damage across levels and ease of transition into Exalted Shadow. OR: Initial Sow DoT debuff now takes percentage-based chunks of enemy health on activation.

 

3. Death’s Harvest feels lackluster and non-descriptive. It feels too similar to a meshed effect of his 1 and 3 debuffs. A copy-pasted ability is a boring ability. 
Solution: New mechanic- enemies marked by Death’s Harvest restore a small amount of Well of Death energy, allowing for a pseudo energy-return mechanic. 
 

Other than those issues, I think Sevagoth is actually really good! I haven’t gotten his arm cannon yet so I can’t say anything about that. Excellent job on the quest!

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Sevagoth Rework

I find Sevagoth extremely clunky to play.

It occurred to me that his abilities would be an awful lot more interesting if he used his Health Pool in place of Energy.

This would give him a unique and interesting risk / reward gameplay style in which he burned his health to use his powers which in turn drained life from his enemies to keep him in the fight.

 

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6 minutes ago, Rovaeden said:

It occurred to me that his abilities would be an awful lot more interesting if he used his Health Pool in place of Energy.

This would give him a unique and interesting risk / reward gameplay style in which he burned his health to use his powers which in turn drained life from his enemies to keep him in the fight.

His kit would still remain boring in general.

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10 minutes ago, Rovaeden said:

Sevagoth Rework

I find Sevagoth extremely clunky to play.

It occurred to me that his abilities would be an awful lot more interesting if he used his Health Pool in place of Energy.

This would give him a unique and interesting risk / reward gameplay style in which he burned his health to use his powers which in turn drained life from his enemies to keep him in the fight.

 

Yeah, I have to say- I’m not getting into this one as much as I thought I would. He’s literally a worse version of baruuk. 

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Bug: While playing Sevagoth with a sentinel (I was using Dethcube Prime.) gloom visual effects above my head are stuttery and are very annoying. It seems the sentinel has its own aura and its not smooth when it moves- similar to Agra’s spectorage- except this time it’s in your face right in the screen since it’s above your head. This really needs looking at.

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Full feedback time. After having played him and levelled him twice I have a bit of feedback to give. First off over-all I enjoy the warframe and they have A LOT of potential but need some refinements.

Visual bug: The shadow only uses it's massive claws to attack if you combo while stationary. If you combo any other way such as blocking, sprinting, sliding you'll use "invisible hands" instead and your actual claws will flail behind you. It's a little silly. Sounds like a lot of the animations for shadow didn't get in or aren't working properly.

Visual suggestion: Please allow the shadow to emote. Obviously it doesn't have legs so it'd only do the upper body portion but it'd be a nice flavor addition.

Non combat suggestion: Please allow us to use/summon shadow in places where we can use/summon operator such as fortuna. I'd like to show off my shadow's fashionframe too please.

Now for the REAL nitty gritty feedback.

Reap: Love this ability in theory but in practice it feels kind of derpy. I would suggest adding a "press" function where instead of shooting forward they circle around you. That'd be more useful most of the time for me anyways. The tooltip claims the effect does DoT but does not seem to as far as I can tell? Either the tooltip text is false or that aspect of the ability didn't make it in. A dot would be nice for higher difficulty because as I'll get to later Sevagoth struggles at high level. It also needs to do more damage baseline cuz right now its damage is so low as to be not noticeable. It just flies around herpdederping. It's main purpose seems to synergize with Sow but should still have some damage of it's own.

Sow: Pretty good ability I'd mostly suggest a decent increase in damage. Yeah it does true damage which will one shot most low level things but at high levels it's so low damage it's worthless. At least allow it to scale in some way. As it does true damage it may be more effective to do it as a percent of enemy health rather than raw damage. Ultimately be a nerf in low levels but a buff in high levels allowing Sevagoth to be competent. 

Gloom: Great ability. My main suggestion is to not make it a channeled ability but rather a duration based one. I'd suggest 20 second base duration. Alternatively GREATLY reduce the cost to channel. Visually it needs to be diminished or removed from sentinels because it's quite blinding at the moment. 

Exalted Shadow: I love the concept of this ability so much and for the most part the execution. It is lacking in some ways though. My first suggestion is allow us to use shadow regardless of how much soul well we have as long as it's not 0. So if we're at 50 soul well we can still activate it. Especially cuz sometimes a glitch seems to happen (not sure the cause) that forces you back to Sevagoth.

Movement: Shadow should move at a decent speed and potentially the ability to float/fly in the air freely like it can with reap. Obviously not as quick as Titania but it's a spectral shadow I don't feel like it should be ground bound. As It's a melee exclusive ability it really needs speed.

Embrace: Embrace should have a 180 degree angle OR allow it's angle to be increased by range. The ability should also have some innate damage.

Consume: This ability feels super clunky. I feel like I lose control of my character and I don't like it. Maybe instead make it an ability that increases your base movement speed and does damage as you pass through enemies healing you? rather than a clunky dash. Or maybe change the functionality where if you tap you do a short dash, and hold a long dash. Because even with 100% range I still dash further than I need to most of the time. Forcing me to take time to reposition. I'm also noticing that even if I DO charge straight through enemies I somehow miss them? even point blank range with this ability. It's especially frustrating if I die since it's the only ability I have and have to dash at the same thing like 3 times to kill it. Instead of a forced jerky jumping dash it should be more of a flowing ghostly dash. Where you phase through enemies dealing damage. So basically make it more like how Sevagoth's 1 key would be my suggestions. You kinda float in a direction for a few seconds at increased speed dealing damage and draining life. 

Death's Harvest: Reduce the base energy drain to 50 rather than 75. Increase the base duration of the effect to 20 seconds. 

Reunite: This ability should have some sort of effect. Such as doing explosive damage, or at least knocking enemies back. Also should have a hold effect where the shadow returns to sevagoth rather than sevagoth meeting with the shadow.

Stats:

Both Sevagoth and Shadow need increase base energy. Sevagoth needs slightly increased base health while Shadow is a forced melee, supposed to be tanky with all that life steal therefor should have a massive increase to base health. Life steal is a useless stat if you're one shot and as is Sevagoth and shadow are much too squishy at high level.

Shadow Claw: Maybe it's just me but it seems to have less mod capacity than other melee weapons? Whatever is causing that should probably be fixed. In addition all exalted weapons suffer from not being able to use certain mod/mod sets and I'm not really sure how come. Perhaps there is a reason for this but as it stands using a melee weapon as Sevagoth is going to be doing more damage than using his exalted weapon. Which seems a tiny bit silly? Exalted weapons should ALWAYS outdo regular weapons. Since they take up an ability slot. Shadow claw also could use an increase base damage. I'd say 500 base for total damage. Maybe that's over-kill but for an exalted form it feels pretty week until you forma it several times and even then it's still sub-par compared to many other warframes. 

Edits: Clarifications and additions.

As of this last edit I have invested 5 forma's into Sevagoth and likely will invest more. Seva himself one, shadow one, and 3 for his exalted weapon. 

Edited by Velaethia
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Addendum: 

Passive: Please allow us to use ALL of Sevagoth's shadow's ability while the passive is activated. Allow it to be able to be triggered by damage done or based off of drain life to fully heal ourselves. Rather than purely kills so it can be effective on bosses. Kills could give it a boost for sure. But is super rough at high levels and with addless bosses. 

Soul well: Soul should charge based on damage done not on kills because otherwise it would make exalted shadow unuseable on certain bosses. Or hard to use at super high level. 

Edited by Velaethia
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Health sacrifice for abilities? On a frame with relatively low armor and a health pool that is middle of the road at best? I feel like that would actively make the frame, as it currently is, worse.

First, his core stats need to be addressed. He has lower than average shields, average health, and about average armor. His core survivability is C- at best. Passable for most stuff, but only just. 150 base armor would be very helpful.

Second, his abilities don't really bridge the gap left by his stats to make him more survivable for harder missions. His one support ability attempts to do this, but it feels like it was merely theorized to do this, and not tested. Slow is not a very good means of increasing a frame's survivability. On paper, it should come out to a reduction of damage per second of about 35% base. However, in practice, damage comes in chunks, not evenly spread out. So, without some kind of better damage reduction, reducing the frequency of damage won't matter against attacks that do high damage all at once.

There are a few ways to bridge the gap which we have seen done a lot already. It can be through turning it into a percentage of damage reduction, which is one of the most popular, albeit over done, methods (Gara, Gauss, Baruuk, Ember, Mesa, Trinity). Percent damage redirection (Nidus, Nekros) It can be through percent armor increase (Chroma, Valkyr, Inaros, Octavia). It can be through flat armor increase (Oberon). It can be done through an enemy side percent damage reduction (Equinox). It can be done through just boosting health (Chroma, Wisp) or shields (Hildryn) so that the frame can just absorb the hit easier so other mechanics can engage like Adaptation. You have complete damage avoidance (Limbo, Xaku, Hydroid, Titania). You can use deployable shields (Gara, Frost, Garuda, Rhino, Revenant, Nezha, Zephyr). There is also shield building (Mag, Equinox, Harrow, Hildryn, Protea). There is invisibility (Ivara, Loki, Octavia, and Ash). There's being fast and difficult to hit in general (Volt and Gauss). You can do debilitating or effective CC (Khora, Vauban, Nyx). There's just nuking everything on the map so it never lives long enough to hit you (Saryn, Mirage, Lavos). Straight up invulnerability periods (Nyx, Atlas, Excalibur, Wukong).

TL:DR: Skip to here to see my suggested change.

There is one form of damage management however that we have not seen in the game, which I think would be very interesting, a lot of fun, and work extremely well with his kit: Damage spreading. Damage spreading is where instead of taking all damage the instant it occurs, you take a small amount right away, and the rest of it over a period of time, which allows for you to heal through it or mitigate it with other forms of damage reduction, like Adaptation. There is a frame in the game that doesn't use damage spreading, but does have a mechanic that is somewhat like this: Revenant. If Revenant takes damage while channeling Danse Macabre, the ability records the incoming damage and adds it to the damage of Danse Macabre, dishing it back out to enemies. However, it doesn't dish it all at once or with the next hit. The damage is spread out, and gets spent slowly until the indicator reaches 0 again.

So, how would this work? Let's say Sevogoth, while channeling Gloom, takes a hit for 1000 damage after all other forms of damage reduction. (I'm ignoring damage type for now to simply illustrate the concept) Instead of taking 1000 damage immediately, he might only take 100 damage, and then the rest of that damage would get spread out over a certain period of time. Let's say it gets spread out over a period of 10 seconds. He would then take 90 damage per second until that instance of damage was spent, totaling 900 damage plus the initial 100 damage, equaling the initial 1000 damage hit.

Now, you might say, "well, this just means that he still took 1000 damage". And yes, it would. However, it would also allow for him to heal through the damage by using the life steal of Gloom. It would also open up a new interaction with Adaptation where those damage ticks would also trigger Adaptation, and allow him to reduce each instance of the stored damage by 10% until by the end, he was reducing it by 90%. Further, the stacking of Adaptation would then reduce further instances of that same damage type that come in, so that the same 1000 damage hit would only be 100 damage, where he takes 10 damage initially and 90 over the same duration.

As for its interaction with allies, I think it should work the same. It would be a very strong support ability then. Leaving the radius of the AOE shouldn't cause all the stored damage to come at once. However, it should stop allies from continuing to store damage, and instead take any new damage up front while the remainder of the stored damage is dealt over its designated time. The same would go for Sevogoth if he stopped channeling the ability, or if the ability was nullified.

I think 10 seconds is a good base duration for the incoming damage. I would say that the rank progression would look like 6/7/8/10 seconds, and affected by duration. So, if you run a super high efficiency build and nerf your duration, it would reduce the channeling cost, but mean you'd take the damage over a 4 second period rather than 10 seconds, making each instance of damage hurt significantly more, and interact with Adaptation less. I also don't think it should be affected by Ability Strength either. Ability Strength already affects the Life Steal on Gloom.

Edited by xZeromusx
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1 hour ago, Rovaeden said:

I love both Nidus and Inaros and I was hoping to enjoy Sevagoth but I have to say he feels extremely clunky to play.
I am curious about your acceptance of him. Why do you feel that his kit works well?
Would you screenshot and share you build pls?

I feel like Sevagoth would be much more interesting if he
* Had a larger health pool and
* Used his Health in place of energy.

I feel like the risk / reward gameplay of burning life to use powers which in turn drain life from enemies is a much more interesting mechanic.

Given that you have played him much more than I have (I could not even be bothered to forma him once. I got him to max rank and dumped him back in the toy box) how would you feel about his mechanic if it worked in that way?
 

 I think the thing with Sevagoth - is that you shouldn't go on him expecting him to be a Tank in the conventional sense (big block'a health), imagine that his survivability is less of a static stat such as health and armor, where you let the numbers do the trick - instead, its a much more interactive form of survivability, where in the rare moments you go down (his slow really helps him surviving), you must strike your foes in order to get back up, its almost like Nidus's passive, but innate, with a chance you might not survive if you get unlucky.

 Of course im not counting Min-maxing - Arcane Aegis gives him another layer of survivability, together with umbral vitality and brief respite since he is quite energy hungry. Your shadow is pure BULK, and will soak up hits from even steel path enemies if built right.
  Playing Sevagoth has certainly a barrier to entry, as you cant play him as you play any other Warframe - he requires a lot of button presses, and a lot of warframes are much more laid back than him, which translates into him feeling clunky.. BUT. if you get used to him, Sevagoth proves to be a power to be reckoned with as he excels in the things he does, he certainly refreshed my enjoyment of the game that i certainly needed!

Here is my build for him, its a very intense 17 forma piece, since i've just got used to him, i decided to go for something more well rounded, akin to Brozime's build on him in his most recent video, and its proving itself to be the best for me - but because of diminishing returns, it might be a good idea to invest in more range instead of strength 

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6 hours ago, Leqesai said:

That's exactly what I was hoping. Inaros' death passive is garbage and I wasn't sure if Sevagoth was in the same boat.

Do you know if the shadow, while in bleedout, is maintaining the claw mods when dealing damage to enemies?

Quoting this again - but as it turns out, YES!

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I'm just curious what content you've tested him in to make this conclusion. Historically speaking, abilities that slow enemies have been considered utterly annoying and hated by the game's community on certain missions, like endless defense. So, I'm loathe to use it at any significantly effective range to begin with.

His base health, armor, and shield on his core frame, if I'm being generous, are middle of the road, so yeah, he definitely doesn't have just the base raw stats. His shadow has high armor at least. However, he has no other forms of mitigation. Even though slow reduces damage frequency, it does nothing to reduce the hits you do take, which will still be plenty. While I understand that you're meant to interact with your ghost, you can't spend the entire mission in that form either. Eventually, you have to return to his core form, and use abilities that do just a few hundred damage against level 150 heavy gunners to try to recover your meter. So, I'm just not getting the feeling that he's on the same level as frames like Nidus. If his entire amazingness just revolves around being able to get yourself back up, then I'm not impressed to be honest. Being great at the midnight hour isn't what I'd consider fun.

Edited by xZeromusx
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Ok, i got very excite to touch this new frame Sevagoth. Here is my op. after i test in in various mission.

1.Sevagoth is really have trouble in Steelpath content. I know that he got various of survival ability. But in fact even with that all, it still can't help him surive well enough. His armor is too thin for enconter with Steelpath, i try to use Adaptation, Arcane guardian also Umbra vit. and intens., but he still encounter with death back to back. His armor is very poor so after shield gate run out 1 or 2 shot he will die. Adaptation can't build up with this high damage hit, also Arcane guardian is not even have chance to trigger. No need to mention about his recovery hp skill, you can't win enemy damage with tiny healing. 

2. His passive to rerive him as shadow is very hard to control. It's hit box is very small make it hard to target enemy and after miss attack it's will take a while to recover or may you will fall to some hole cause this move is very far jump., Result Fail to rerive due to hard to target enemy and not enough enmey around before time up.

3. Reap is very good skill imo, but it's pathing is very bad, It's keep stuck on the way. a bit high floor, object you name it. It's requre some pass through object (not wall), c'mon it's shadow!

4..Gloom is one that i really feel it's not go well. First thing first like many can fell it's not Energy friendly. even with Eff. build it's still drain energy too much. In Stillpath content that enemy harder to kill make energy orb is harder to find. This skill which need to survive but skill drain too much energy to keep it on all time. Please note that this skil is only give partial cc not full cc ability and partial healing. it's not increase damage to enemy nor buff player damage. and it's also require very high STR to get full potential. With all this requirement and skill ability. I dont' think it's need to put so high energy to maintain one of requre skill to survive.

5.Exalted Shadow - only thing that i found trouble with this skill is, after use it ,switch to main body and Death well is not full. You need to fill it until full to use them again. This make this skill sometime is not ready when it need. (for example you may just use it to survive hardtime. After you switch back then Acolyte pop on you and your gauge is not ready.) Why not make Exalted Shadow work same way to Baruuk? As long as you got gauge you can use shadow form. Since this form is already got limited usage with Gauge, Shadows HP why still need put limit on how to switch to this form.

For me I feel that Sevagoth is like supporter frame, so i'm not mention much about it damage. since all other skill of shadow form is debuff and support roll. so can't name him as attacker or so, Even his shadow form is quite brute, but since it was limited to use then i think it's more suitable for keep him survive than aim on damage. So as support role, I hope to see him can survive more and can bring out full support than just now.

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There are many suggestions to make him better. I'll add a few of my own, beginning with Gloom. Slow sucks. Just all around it's generally disliked by the community for certain content. Yes, slow provides effective damage reduction by reducing how often damage occurs. However, that means nothing as damage still occurs, and we still have to be able to survive said damage, and to that end, he doesn't have anything but his armor. Healing damage taken is not the same as surviving damage. That is reactive to damage occurring, and if you don't survive the damage that occurs, then you won't heal it either.

First change suggestion: I also understand that you want Sevogoth to be different, fun. And to that end, I agree. I think he could be a lot of fun and unique while also being able to take a hit. So, my suggestion is to bring a new form of damage mitigation to the game that we haven't seen before: Damage Spreading.

I got the idea for this from Revenant's Danse Macabre. While channeling Danse Macabre, if Revenant takes damage, that damage is stored, and dealt back to enemies through the ability. However, Danse Macabre doesn't deal all the stored damage at once. It dishes it out over a period of time until the damage indicator reaches 0, with new incoming damage adding to it.

Damage Spreading works in a similar manner. Say Sevogoth receives a hit for 1000 damage after armor and other forms of damage mitigation. Damage Spreading would store most of that damage, say 90% of it, and deal that damage over a period of time so that Sevogoth only takes 100 damage up front, and the rest from a DOT over a specified period of time. Let's say he takes the rest over 10 ticks over 10 seconds. That would mean each tick is 90 damage. One might say "well, he still took 1000 damage, what does spreading it out matter?" Well, for one, it's easier to survive and heal the damage when it's spread out. Two, it allows for new interactions with mods like Adaptation and Arcanes that activate from "on damage". So, the damage ticks would trigger Adaptation, stacking it up to 90%, so that it reduces each tick of damage AND reduces each new instance of incoming damage so that the stored damage can be better managed. It also means Sevogoth's life steal can counteract each tick of damage easier than trying to recover from a big hit all at once. If you survive the big hit at all.

Since Gloom is an AOE, it would be great support as well this way by allowing allies to manage damage similarly. If an ally leaves the radius, they would still have to manage the stored damage as a DOT until it runs out, but they wouldn't be able to store new instances of damage unless they return to the radius of Gloom. Same for Sevogoth if he stops channeling the ability while having stored damage.

I also think 10 seconds is a good duration for spreading the damage, while also not making it too meaningless. I also think it should be affected by Ability Duration, so that if you build Gloom for high efficiency but low duration, the damage would spread less, resulting in larger damage ticks that don't interact with Adaptation or Arcanes as much, or smaller ones if you go high duration that would interact with them more.

Anyways, that would go a long ways towards making him feel unique while also feeling easier to manage and encourage active game play because you gotta damage enemies to take advantage of life steal to make sure you heal up damage you're still taking from a previous hit.

 

(Also, please change the visual indication for Gloom to something a bit less annoying to players using Sentinels)

 

Second change: IDK if this is meant to be or not, but Undying Will only works when you place it on Sevogoth himself, and will not work when placed on his ghost. It would be very helpful to his survivability if you made it work on his ghost too, allowing us to increase the bleed out timer that way, and leave room for other mods in his main frame load out.

Edited by xZeromusx
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So, it took 14 forms to bring the build closer to endgame, and still it and its shadow seem very fragile.

Reap: Good.

Sow: Garbage. Small damage. Doesn't do anything else.

Gloom: Reduce the cost to 25 and the drain consumption to 3-6, now not relevant for <175% energy efficiency.

 

Embrace: Speed up flying enemies, very long flight at 250% radius. The rest is fine.

Consume: Improve your targeting of enemies. Add stun to nearby enemies when triggered.

Death Harvest: Good.

Now, seriously. Shadow Claws must use all mods (Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds), now its damage is ridiculous in SP, there is no point in being Shadow if melee is several times stronger.

Also, as suggested above, Shadow must have an innate Hunter Adrenaline as a passive.

Additionally, the energy of the Savagoth must be frozen when it is Shadow (even with active Gloom), however, the rate of reduction of its passive charge must depend on the energy efficiency of the Savagoth.

 

Bug: Passive does not work on Arbitrations

Edited by Ph4nt0m_ru
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Time for feedback referring to several issues with current Sevagoth.

  1. Movement and Parkour speed:  Sevagoth has a sprint speed of 0.95. Frost prime also shares the same sprint speed, but is a lot faster than Sevagoth. Also, the bullet jumps with Sevagoth feel like he is debuffed with a cold proc all the time.
  2. Survivability:   Sevagoth's base armor is 110, compared to his shadow's base armor of 450. This is usually not an issue with frames that can kill surrounding enemies fast, or can heal up pretty fast. Sevagoth can do none. His 3rd ability has a very low life steal for the amount of energy it consumes, meaning he cannot heal faster than the enemies dealing damage to health. This also makes arcane guardian, arcane grace and adaptation useless as they don't even have the time to trigger to save Sevagoth.
  3. Gloom:  Considering how high the drain cost for this ability is, and the low amount of life steal it gives, it either needs to change to something like Hildryn's pillage, to steal health over a large area, the base drain needs to be reduced by a lot, seeing as Sevagoth's energy capacity is pretty low, or the range of the ability + life steal + energy pool of Sevagoth needs to be improved.
  4. Sevagoth's passive:   Inaros like passive with the same weakness. Basically, Sevagoth's shadow needs to harvest souls for his revival. Cool concept, TERRIBLE EXECUTION. The shadow relies on only 1 ability which cannot kill on high levels, meaning either you are dependent on team members, or just be ready to die really fast. The ability of the shadow during this time is hard to control, not to mention that it cannot pull enemies, meaning Sevagoth can never truely self revive.
  5. Reap:  Good ability, but it moves way slower compared to Sevagoth, meaning the frame can go ahead and kill enemies with a melee even before the ability can debuff enemies (for reference, Wisp's specter moves faster than Wisp, and can be made to travel faster by holding the ability key).
  6. Ability range:  Many of the abilities have really low range, even after putting the basic range mod. We don't expect ranges like 60m or 80m, but decent range can be reasonably expected.
  7. Synergy:   The synergy between different abilities is good, but pretty weak. the combination of Sow and Reap is good, but since it deals true damage, cannot kill at high levels (again, not expecting it to one shot a level 300 enemy, but atleast kill a level 100 in a reasonable time at 177% str).

 

Suggested improvements:

  1. Increase the movement and parkour speed of Sevagoth.
  2. Increase the base armor of Sevagoth, to about the same value as the shadow.
  3. If increasing armor is not an option, cut down on the energy drain of his gloom, and greatly increase the range and life steal. Or convert the ability to something similar to Hildryn's Pillage, without the Line of Sight check.
  4. Allow the use of melee in Sevagoth's passive, and make the damage scale relative to enemy level. This takes care of self revive and makes it relevant.
  5. Increase the movement speed of Reap's shadow/specter.
  6. Increase ability range overall.
  7. Make the damage from Sow scale from enemy health, not dealing true damage. Also, make the damage type adaptive (like Baruuk's Reactive storm augment) to suit various enemy types, as not all enemies are weak to blast.
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First of: Design of the warframe aesthetically is amazing, good job. 

I'm now quite a few formas deep on Sevagoth, more notably:

  • 5 on Sevagoth
  • 8 on Sevagoth's Shadow
  • 7 on His claws

The couple of hours i've spent playing him now has been with mixed feelings, i see the idea behind him with you spending abilities to fuel his shadow,, but there are things that i think should be looked at.

 

First, Sevagoth himself.

1. Reap

I think reap should be changed to more actively seek out targets to reduce some of the ability spam that we currently have to do to fuel his metre. This would in return, not fix, but help a very common complaint about energy efficiency on the Warframe.
Every other aspect of the ability is quite nice.

 

2. Sow

I think Sow is in a decent spot as it is. I would maybe bump the base damage up by 10-20% & make it clearer in the UI what the blast radius for the explosions themselves are. Currently it only shows the radius around Sevagoth, that will inflict enemies with his mark.

 

3. Gloom

Gloom has problems. Big ones. I don't really understand why gloom has to have a growing AOE that takes a few seconds to fully charge, i would simply change this to be max all the time instead. This is however not my main problem with Gloom; my main problem is the energy cost.

I have a few ideas on how to "fix" it & i want to address some of the other fixes i've seen in this thread.

 

Setting Gloom on a cooldown (adressing):

As it stands right now, Sevagoth wants a mix of every stat & cannot really afford to spec into one stat in particular. While this would definitely fix the energy issue, it would create the same problem that Xaku had on release; build diversity. Making gloom duration based would simply just end up in replacing an efficiency mod or two with a duration mod, and we're not back to the same issue in terms of build diversity as we had before with efficiency being key, as most people would aim to have gloom up as much as possible.

 

Making Gloom cost less energy (adressing):

This approach would be a half-way fix if you ask me, but as it stands right now, him always draining energy does not really fit his theme as being a life-sucking warframe. Instead, i want to introduce my idea to fixing Gloom:

 

Making Gloom drain per enemy in range (My idea):

This idea stems from a rather similar Warframe; Equinox. Equinox's Provoke ability (Night form, 3rd ability) drains energy based on enemies in range, and based  on amount of enemies. If no enemies are in range, you are able to regen energy through Zenurik and warframe buffs etc. which is not usually possible with channeled abilities, but is actually possible with Provoke on equinox. Taking provoke into consideration, i think a total copy-paste of how provoke works in terms of energy cost & drain would fit him very well in terms of theme. 
This design would encourage you to kill enemies in your radius to keep energy costs lower, & encourage a very active playstyle as you are able to manage your energy much, much easier. As this would probably end up being a big energy efficiency buff to him in general, i wold keep the cost at what it currently is on live.

 

2nd, Sevagoth's shadow.

I think Sevagoths Shadow is in a decent spot as it is, but there are a few things i would love to have tweaked.

 

1. Embrace

Embrace is a really cool ability & provides good CC and utility. Some tweaks that could help to make this ability get to a spot where i think it'd be perfect, is slightly increase the angle at which embrace is able to drag enemies in. Perhaps increased with range. A nitpick, but worth mentioning, i would love to see enemies who are further away, be sucked in faster based on distance.

 

2. Consume

I think consume is in a good spot, but is fairly situational. I would grant the shadow a slight moment of invincibility when using consume.

 

3. Death's Harvest

This one is a bit odd to me. We have a 3rd ability on Sevagoth himself that can slow enemies, and a 2nd ability that can add vulnerability to enemies, but no slow on Sevagoths shadow? I would perhaps add a slight slow on Death's Harvest to overall improve the survivability of Sevagoth's shadow as a whole.

 

 

Lastly, Sevagoth's Claws.

This one is a big miss in my book. His claws feel.. "decent" as it is, but they simply do not compare with a regular melee weapon as it is. I know melee is being looked at, but not giving Sevagoths Claws the same possbilities of modding as a regular melee is just strange to me. Let them equip Blood Rush and Weeping wounds as other melees.

Also.. what in the world is up with his claws only having a measly 1.5m range - this is the 3rd shortest category of "melee" in the game. Melee's  with shorter range than Sevagoth: Sparring Weapons and Glaives when used as melee... this is a joke to me. Idk if he had his nails trimmed lately, but please let em grow out a bit longer. Atleast let them match the length of other claw wepaons like the Venka prime at 1.8m or Keratinos at 1.7m. The size of his claws do not in any way reflect the base range they have...... (Wasn't this something that was addressed with Meleee 2.999? Melees were supposed to somewhat represent their range with actual looks)

 

Conclusion:

I like his kit and i like his direction. He feels decently fun to play, but he's justt not efficient enough at doing what other warframes do right now; function. He needs some tweaks; maybe not every single one of his abilities as some of them are definitely nitpicks, but if there's some key points i would definitely advise you took a look at it would be:

 

- Sevagoth's Claws

- Gloom

- Reap

Edited by IAmBananaCat
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18 hours ago, NebulaLagoon said:

Is Sevagoth supposed to not have an Aura polarity?

 

bc2ab74bb249ed05725f25319f911ebc972f91b4

 

 

It's not unusual. Nekros doesn't have an Aura Polarity at first either.

14 hours ago, PlanckZero said:

Sevagoth, the "#*!% you, go buy some forma" frame.  No polarity on his aura slot, no polarity on his shadow's aura slot, no polarity on the shadows exalted weapon's stance.

Who the #*!% thought  this would be a good idea?

It's your own fault if you're not farming Forma blueprints and continously crafting them in the foundry. Only chumps buy them from the market.

Edited by Ace-Bounty-Hunter
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Two complaints: Sevagoths lore was changed, and Sevagoths modding is wack.

How does DE expect us to be modding Sevagoth? I've tried multiple build types, all of them have major drawbacks. between that theres also the issue of his low armor/ health and high energy costs. It's mostly a melee / medium range caster. but real squishy. so build for survivability and forgo any chance for sevagoth to have scalability into high tier. or do the opposite. it makes me think DE didnt have a plan on his intended usage or what they wanted to accomplish with this warframe :( 

 

Sevagoths lore. i was really excited to play this character and haven't been excited for a warframe since nekros release since i actually could see myself playing a character with the lore of a "Ghoul". But now that Sevagoth is released his in game lore description has nothing to do with being a Ghoul, nothing to do with the "life after death" theme that i seek, and it really makes me sad. yep.

The in game description says "The storm-swept, void-wandering warframe has returned to harvest living souls. Send forth his shadow to reap the life of the unwary.

Edited by zombi3h3art
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  • SireVisconde changed the title to Feedback on Sevagoth (17 forma) - Suggestions [updated]
  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)
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