Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)

[Dragazer]

10 hours ago, Velaethia said:

It is the weapon of his shadow not Sevagoth

The Exalted weapons stats are intrinsically linked to the ability that casted it

Who owns this ability? It is Sevagoth not his shadow.

[kyori]

Presently when operator transferring out in Shadow form, it will become Sevagoth will operator transfer back. Possible to program it so that whichever form the operator transfer out , will be that same form when transferring back in?

[ColdCremator]

8 hours ago, ebrl said:

With how far back (and up!) the camera stays, it's easy to miscalculate it - depending on where you are looking at (the "natural" positioning will probably have you looking slightly downwards, to not get your sight blocked by the shadow itself) about 50% of your screen is behind and to the sides of the shadow. Atlas' Petrify is a 60 degree cone and is already very generous, the difference is that the regular camera angle doesn't even show much that's not directly in front of you.

Fair enough, I've used Petrify and also noticed how generous it can be. I'll have to practice with it some more. I'm still working on a general use build and have a decent amount of forma to go on both Seva and Shadow so I imagine I'll get used to it.

[Velaethia]

I do not entirely understand the point of Reap going faster with holding. Why not just make the default? Is there a reason we'd ever want it slow? It's not like it can hit multiple times... So I don't see a reason to ever go slow. Just need to go into settings and switch them around so it always goes fast with a quick tap cuz no reason to go slow. 

[Velaethia]

1 minute ago, Velaethia said:

I do not entirely understand the point of Reap going faster with holding. Why not just make the default? Is there a reason we'd ever want it slow? It's not like it can hit multiple times... So I don't see a reason to ever go slow. Just need to go into settings and switch them around so it always goes fast with a quick tap cuz no reason to go slow. 

Apparently I can't because Sevagoth doesn't show up in the UI for switching press versus tap... *sigh* I'd have to switch em for all warframes for it to effect him (if it even would?). 

 

[(PSN)Gorbihn]

So, does Gloom actually do anything other than kind of slow enemies? Honestly, all of his abilities feel like they don't do anything to me. I could just be missing something(s), but It's kind of annoying to not have anything happening when I activate my abilities.

[Dueliest]

This feedback is specifically for the changes made for Call of the Tempestarii: Hotfix 30.0.6. I would like to state, the over complicated nature of the energy drain mechanic on his 3 is down right offensive. Is the goal to avoid more enemies if I have low energy but need health? Or is the goal to leave it on all the time? Either way the extremely inconsistent nature of energy expenditure is a constant drain on attention and will suck the fun right out of playing the frame in favor of micromanaging how many targets I want to get close to. PLEASE DONT DO THIS. That just wont work with infested, it also wont work with nulifiers wanting to give hugs. Alternative, if the goal is to make it expensive and run some energy recovery to compensate just make it expensive and allow us to toggle it as needed, if the goal is to make it cheap to run it all the time make it cheap, if the goal is to not have it on all the time then don't make it a channel skill just change it to duration based. Also basing the cost of the skill on the number of targets belies the "aura" like nature of the skill, wouldn't it be better to create "links" to each target to express how the "upkeep" of such a skill increases with more strain and # of targets. but because it is just a field, if the issue is one of a role playing nature, you could also simply scale the energy cost to the max range? Either way I will be hard pressed to take this frame seriously (even with the no target discount) if this stays like this. Thank you for your consideration.

 

PS: I have to "equip" Shadow Claws.

[Velaethia]

30 minutes ago, Dueliest said:

This feedback is specifically for the changes made for Call of the Tempestarii: Hotfix 30.0.6. I would like to state, the over complicated nature of the energy drain mechanic on his 3 is down right offensive. Is the goal to avoid more enemies if I have low energy but need health? Or is the goal to leave it on all the time? Either way the extremely inconsistent nature of energy expenditure is a constant drain on attention and will suck the fun right out of playing the frame in favor of micromanaging how many targets I want to get close to. PLEASE DONT DO THIS. That just wont work with infested, it also wont work with nulifiers wanting to give hugs. Alternative, if the goal is to make it expensive and run some energy recovery to compensate just make it expensive and allow us to toggle it as needed, if the goal is to make it cheap to run it all the time make it cheap, if the goal is to not have it on all the time then don't make it a channel skill just change it to duration based. Also basing the cost of the skill on the number of targets belies the "aura" like nature of the skill, wouldn't it be better to create "links" to each target to express how the "upkeep" of such a skill increases with more strain and # of targets. but because it is just a field, if the issue is one of a role playing nature, you could also simply scale the energy cost to the max range? Either way I will be hard pressed to take this frame seriously (even with the no target discount) if this stays like this. Thank you for your consideration.

 

Should really just be duration based with base duration of 20-30 seconds. Because in steel path you have to have it up constantly. So if the goal is to not have it up all the time then they need to allow us to survive some other way. It's literally the only thing keeping us from dying every 30 seconds instead of every 5 in steel path. Slow is one of the weakest forms of CC so I don't know why they're so paranoid about it being too strong. I can stunlock an entire room with other characters. On Xaku I may have a limited numbers of characters I can mind control but it stuns a bunch and then they also act as bodyguards eating damage intended for me especially from projectiles. Mixed with 75% evasion helps a lot with survival. Throw in a vampire kavat to rez me if I DO get downed and I'm virtually immortal on steel path with Xaku. Nidus can legit not only stunlock everything in a certain range but pull them into a tight ball to melee down. Baruuk can AoE sleep not to mention his ragdoll effect from his exalted. Heck Inaros can stun with his 1 or 3 key. Think his 4 can too? Wisp can blind plus she can stun with her lightning totem and increases her max hp and heals. Revanent can mind control up to  7 and takes like 90% reduced damage with his 2 which will also stun attackers. Plus his ult attunes to enemy weakness making it one of the strongest damaging moves int he game. Gara has a 90% damage reduction plus mirrors that force enemies to derp and attack each other. (Not to mention I can get over 1 mil dps on gara easily). Titania has high evasion, gets 100% usage out of aviator with her 4 key and can distract enemy fire with her 3 and straight up stun with her 1. Equinox can reduce enemy damage by over half, plus put them to sleep. She stores all damage done to enemies by anyone in the party and then can unleash it in a massive aoe, or a heal.  Wukong can eat all damage and reflect it AND increases his armor. Limbo can perma stun anything in his realm. Hildryn can permastun enemies near her. So why are we drawing the line and limiting a mediocre as hell cc for Sevagoth?

[Dragazer]

2 hours ago, Dueliest said:

This feedback is specifically for the changes made for Call of the Tempestarii: Hotfix 30.0.6. I would like to state, the over complicated nature of the energy drain mechanic on his 3 is down right offensive. Is the goal to avoid more enemies if I have low energy but need health? Or is the goal to leave it on all the time? Either way the extremely inconsistent nature of energy expenditure is a constant drain on attention and will suck the fun right out of playing the frame in favor of micromanaging how many targets I want to get close to. PLEASE DONT DO THIS. That just wont work with infested, it also wont work with nulifiers wanting to give hugs. Alternative, if the goal is to make it expensive and run some energy recovery to compensate just make it expensive and allow us to toggle it as needed, if the goal is to make it cheap to run it all the time make it cheap, if the goal is to not have it on all the time then don't make it a channel skill just change it to duration based. Also basing the cost of the skill on the number of targets belies the "aura" like nature of the skill, wouldn't it be better to create "links" to each target to express how the "upkeep" of such a skill increases with more strain and # of targets. but because it is just a field, if the issue is one of a role playing nature, you could also simply scale the energy cost to the max range? Either way I will be hard pressed to take this frame seriously (even with the no target discount) if this stays like this. Thank you for your consideration.

 

PS: I have to "equip" Shadow Claws.

Quote

NOTE: There is another planned change which missed the hotfix, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future.

Micromanaging isn't going to be an issue once these above changes go live. The energy cost will simply be lower altogether no matter how many enemies

[0_The_F00l]

Post 30.0.6:

Sevagoth

Reap: I do not see a reason for a "hold" to speed up and "tap" to go slow option , there is little to no reason to have a slow reap and the fast one does not add anything as you can only damage enemies once.At the very least allow me to switch the tap and hold for him.

Sow: same as before , decent sustained damage and combo for reap. but i do wish i could spread it somehow (maybe synergise with harvest? or other shadow abilities to spread it?) or recast it. it feels odd that one ability is very mobile and one is so very static.

Gloom: I have mixed feelings about this, it is more difficult to maintain in condensed missions (defense, MD) where a lot of enemies converge at a point where the drain can be hard without max efficiency. But in more mobile missions (exterminate , capture rescue etc.) i can keep it up with zenurik dash on moderate good efficiency as there are occasional sections where there are no enemies. i expect it will be better once the drain is kept fixed per enemy and does not rise with time/range.

Shadow:

Pull: Fine where it is , but i do wish there was some way to avoid obstacles for enemies, maybe a two step pull , 1) raise the enemies a meter (average clearance of obstacle like rails and such) 2) Pull , this would make it easier.

Consume: a little poor at aiming , can completely miss enemies and so lose damage and healing. maybe have a better area for better chance to hit enemies?

Deaths harvest: No issues specifically , wish it could spread somehow , just like sow.

ExaltedShadow/Reunite: some sort of buff / radial effect based on the death well meter would be nice.

 

I feel it is still lacking in the mobility department , its rather slow overall, if the reap can act as a teleporting ability it would be great.

[Velaethia]

38 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Consume: a little poor at aiming , can completely miss enemies and so lose damage and healing. maybe have a better area for better chance to hit enemies?

 

Ran some missions and both passive and exalted version would miss enemies right in front of me over, and over, and over again. I had like 80 hp on shadow for like 30 seconds cuz I kept spamming it and it kept dashing through enemies without effecting them what-so-ever. Very frustrating. Idk why it's so buggy when it could work like vial rush or atlas punch ability work just fine. I wish I could say I was exaggerating. I am not. It is THAT bad. And considering exalted shadow has no base lifesteal it's the only way to heal yourself and it just doesn't work 9/10. I know you're waiting on more feedback for some balancing changes. But that's not a balancing changes. That's literally a functionality issue. 

[Yulfan]

Imo, Consume and the revive mechanic are very clunky. The dash goes really too far (which makes it super difficult to control), and even if you pass through enemies, it miss almost all the time if the shadow is not perfectly centered on the target. DE should make it easier to register a hit.

Also during the revive phase, the camera takes a higher position (the same as when we are dead), messing up the aiming : the shadow tend to pass over the enemies if you aim straight at them. You have to aim at the ground to avoid this, but as said without any garantee that the hit will register. Just keep the usual camera during this phase.

And honestly, I wouldn't be against a nerf of the distance traveled by his 2. It's too much for what it's used for, which is quite detrimental. And while this skill can be used to travel a long distance, it's just a waste of energy. It's faster to bullet jump. Another possibility would be to stop the movement as soon as the shadow meets an enemy, obviously on the condition of facilitating the hit registration.

[LagartoPunkarra]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Gorbihn said:

So, does Gloom actually do anything other than kind of slow enemies?

Idunno, healing? I guess that's why Gloom is the best ability base Sevagoth has.

[TheKurtiStryke]

11 hours ago, Velaethia said:

I do not entirely understand the point of Reap going faster with holding. Why not just make the default? Is there a reason we'd ever want it slow? It's not like it can hit multiple times... So I don't see a reason to ever go slow. Just need to go into settings and switch them around so it always goes fast with a quick tap cuz no reason to go slow. 

100% this.

sevagoth right now is a mess, and De seems to not understand that, the new changes are more an harm than a solution.

[PsiWarp]

Another suggestion for the support side of Sevagoth's Shadow: allow Death's Harvest to grant 2 (or more) energy to the player that kills a marked enemy. This ability costs 75 energy for a measly 4 more meters than Reap and without the small damage that deals. The marks are also not renewable until they expire.

This allows Sevagoth to at least use Death's Harvest -> Reunite -> kill marked enemies to fuel his heavy casting needs (sustain Gloom, Reap what is Sown)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 hours ago, kyori said:

Presently when operator transferring out in Shadow form, it will become Sevagoth will operator transfer back. Possible to program it so that whichever form the operator transfer out , will be that same form when transferring back in?

I think it’s the way it is due to technical limitations.

[FirstHunterPrime]

In my opinion on the current state of "no blood rush on exalted weapon" is what's making Sevagoth's  exalted weapon sometimes feels like trash and unviable in comparison to regular melee. I have put around 9-10 forma in Sevagoth (including an umbral forma) but he still feels so squishy in Steel Path mission (especially endurance missions). Few suggestion I have to fix or make him more rewarding for players who already invested so much is to: 

1. Reduce the cost of maintaining Gloom, the reasoning is it cost too much even with hunter adrenaline/ rage. 

2. Bring back acolytes mods to exalted weapons to make them able to compare with regular melee weapon that the game currently have.

3. Increase both his health and armor value (1070 health and only 438 armor using all three maxed umbral mods is pretty low.)

4. Make the damage scaling on his 2-1 combo a little bit higher. Because currently even in medium level mission it feels weak.

5. Increase his energy pool.

6. Creating an augment similar to Nekros' despoil augment for Gloom (fixing number 1 and 5)

7. Make his 2nd ability to be able to be recasted at any time.

8. Make the shadows' 2nd ability stops immediately upon impact with another enemy or even better makes the second ability capable of hitting multiple enemy at once (added note: the shadows' second ability can sometimes launch him a far if paired with Nidus' larva).

9. The concept of the passive is great. But because of the problems shadows' second ability have and the low durability the shadow have even with 3 maxed umbral mods and adaptation. It can becomes unreliable in high level steel path endurance runs. Make his 2nd ability more reliable in reviving him.

10. Increase the shadows' durability. Even regular frames such as Nidus have higher stats when equipped with three umbral mods.

In conclusion, Sevagoth is a well designed frame each abilities able to synergize with one another but even though he is well designed doesn't meant he doesn't have any flaws as you can see above. So please DE, make him feel more rewarding for players who already invested so much in him.

 

[Xikto]

This is not a good idea, with just 10 enemies with max range on base this will cause you to get a 15 energy/second drain which is just laughable, this is the same idea you had with equinox night mode 3, which made that ability basicaly unusable unless you make ur whole build to just make that one ability decent at best. and even then the second a lot of enemies get in range there goes all ur energy aaaand ur dead! Given that while ur not in ur shadow form, this is sevagoths main survivability tool this is unaccpetable! Make it a flat number that only scales off the current range of the ability and not enemy count, and be generouns it's not like sevagoth is a revolutionary warframe anyway, i think he deserves this!

[16Bitman]

8 minutes ago, Xikto said:

This is not a good idea, with just 10 enemies with max range on base this will cause you to get a 15 energy/second drain which is just laughable, this is the same idea you had with equinox night mode 3, which made that ability basicaly unusable unless you make ur whole build to just make that one ability decent at best. and even then the second a lot of enemies get in range there goes all ur energy aaaand ur dead! Given that while ur not in ur shadow form, this is sevagoths main survivability tool this is unaccpetable! Make it a flat number that only scales off the current range of the ability and not enemy count, and be generouns it's not like sevagoth is a revolutionary warframe anyway, i think he deserves this!

"Sevagoth’s Gloom now consumes 0.75 Energy per second (base) for each enemy within Glooms range. Equip Efficiency Mods (Streamline, etc) to reduce!  NOTE: there is another planned change which missed this build, which prevents the energy cost from increasing to 1.5 per enemy, and caps the drain at a maximum of 10 enemies. Look for that in the near future. "

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1260376-call-of-the-tempestarii-hotfix-3006/

From how I understand it, it's supposed to cost 7.5 per second (reduceable with efficiency mods) at most, but you'll have to wait until the next hotfix.

[NekroArts]

One massive thing you're overlooking is that the drain is based off of enemy count and not by simply being active. Because of that, Pacify & Provoke and Gloom don't suffer from the "unable to gain energy" penalty.

The way I have my Equinox build with Night-Peaceful Provocation I have a net positive on energy when using just max Energize Dash while 10 enemies are in my radius.

[kyori]

Before this hotfix, my Gloom is 0.19-0.38... unmod Gloom is 0.75-1.5

After latest hotfix, my Gloom is 0.19-1.88... unmod Gloom is 0.75-7.5!!!!

It is said that the energy drained per enemy won't go higher than 1.5... so let's say 10 enemies means 15 energy/s.

Clearly before latest update my Gloom will be 3.8/s for 10 enemies... 15.2/s for 40 enemies. Now only need 10 enemies and it will be 15/s already???

 

EDIT: Tested in game and it is indeed 1.5/s drained max if there are 10 enemies in the Gloom aura. It's not 1.5 per enemy as said in the patchnote. But then why in-game arsenal shows 1.88 if max is 1.5? 

[Obnyr]

I feel like Gloom is not that usefull as enemies at melee range don't live long enough to fill much of the well. Like 0.1% of the well per second per enemy, but at melee range (I have like 8m of range on my melee weapons), enemies rarely sruvives 1s. The whole point of having a zone around you is to use melee right (as guns fire farther) ? Then why do something based on the survivability of enemies when melee is so lethal ? Lifesteal is nice, but well filling is really disappointing on this spell.

[PsiWarp]

10 minutes ago, kyori said:

Before this hotfix, my Gloom is 0.19-0.38... unmod Gloom is 0.75-1.5

After latest hotfix, my Gloom is 0.19-1.88... unmod Gloom is 0.75-7.5!!!!

It is said that the energy drained per enemy won't go higher than 1.5... so let's say 10 enemies means 15 energy/s.

Clearly before latest update my Gloom will be 3.8/s for 10 enemies... 15.2/s for 40 enemies. Now only need 10 enemies and it will be 15/s already???

Did I miss something or something is really wrong?

It's a case of test before freaking out and also misleading in-game tooltip values.

See wiki for the updated drain, but in short, 7.5 is the maximum drain per second, period, that is affected by Efficiency and Duration.

[Dragazer]

45 minutes ago, kyori said:

Before this hotfix, my Gloom is 0.19-0.38... unmod Gloom is 0.75-1.5

After latest hotfix, my Gloom is 0.19-1.88... unmod Gloom is 0.75-7.5!!!!

It is said that the energy drained per enemy won't go higher than 1.5... so let's say 10 enemies means 15 energy/s.

Clearly before latest update my Gloom will be 3.8/s for 10 enemies... 15.2/s for 40 enemies. Now only need 10 enemies and it will be 15/s already???

Did I miss something or something is really wrong?

The 7.5 is referring to your maximum drain at 10 enemies. Each enemy adds 0.75 drain until its capped at 10 enemies for 7.5 energy/s

[Rovaeden]

On 2021-04-21 at 12:16 AM, VoidArkhangel said:

Also you didn't spent 15 forma on Sev only, do you? You don't say I've spent 10 forma on Excalibur, its 4 on Exca and 6 on the blade, certainly the blade is part of Excal but you treat it like separate entities and most importantly: He isn't a primed frame nor a umbra so as always it must cost a lot of forma to reach its potential and you have to multiply that by 3.

Not sure why this needs to be explained...

We are talking about Sevagoth's entire kit here, right? Yes! Thank you.
So Peter, the 15+ forma on the OVERALL kit is all that needs be mentioned.