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Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)


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Hello, I am not entirely certain whether or not this is intended but I felt it pertinent to bring to someone’s attention just in case it is considered an exploit. I recently brought the new frame Sevagoth into an Infested Salvage mission on Eris and I noticed that he is capable of holding up to 6 antiserum for the vaporizers. 3 for him and 3 for the shadow. The game registers there are 6 on screen so I wasn’t certain if this was intended. Either way felt it was important to point out.

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Just now, (PSN)lnvader-Dib said:

Hello, I am not entirely certain whether or not this is intended but I felt it pertinent to bring to someone’s attention just in case it is considered an exploit. I recently brought the new frame Sevagoth into an Infested Salvage mission on Eris and I noticed that he is capable of holding up to 6 antiserum for the vaporizers. 3 for him and 3 for the shadow. The game registers there are 6 on screen so I wasn’t certain if this was intended. Either way felt it was important to point out.

Doubt it's an exploit. Sev and the Shadow count as 2 different warframes. 

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5 hours ago, Zilotz said:

What can be done with it:

1) Current min drain(7.5) would be new max drain.

2) New min drain will start from 0.

That's literally what it's at right now. Each enemy adds 0.75 drain/s up to a max of drain of 7.5/s at 10 enemies. You will not lose any energy at all if there are no enemies within the radius.

Edited by Dragazer
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I feel as though Sevagoth should be able to use mods such as Melee Guidance to affect Shadow, could make for creative build paths.
Also, Sevagoth fills well with Gloom active, so why can't Shadow do the same, considering it receives all the other buffs already, and it would mean that you have to stay near Sevagoth to stay in Shadow anyway.

a neat augment for Sevagoth would be a spreading Sow effect. Or maybe an augment for Gloom that allows shadow to fill Well as mentioned above. Maybe an aug for Reap that teleports you to it, and does a burst of sow in 2x it's normal range on arrival a la Wisp Surging to a Mote. Obviously Shadow Prism Claws would be sick.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Overtone_Jones
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Thank you DE for the hugely demanded changes the community has been asking to for sevagoth.

His gloom ability was indeed too good for hellminth, and his warframe as a whole was just being played too much. So making it drain much more energy is great making less people play him which overall is a positive for the game to promote "diversity" of warframe selection.

I'll go back to using my mesa and saryn now thank you kindly as i have for the past 5 years thanks 

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On 2021-04-23 at 8:29 AM, ElecDeathblade said:

Trinity cries in the corner because of that statement

Oh, I hear ya. I don't like it, its just how it is.

I would much rather play with more nuance than "derp-zerg the objective as fast as possible and mindlessly kill everything on the way".

As a tank main in every other MMO, I would LOVE to be able to use CC and tanking abilities to control the fight. Sadly there is zero point to trying to do that in Warframe, even with the limited tools to that purpose that we have.

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1 hour ago, Croeseus said:

Thank you DE for the hugely demanded changes the community has been asking to for sevagoth.

His gloom ability was indeed too good for hellminth, and his warframe as a whole was just being played too much. So making it drain much more energy is great making less people play him which overall is a positive for the game to promote "diversity" of warframe selection.

I'll go back to using my mesa and saryn now thank you kindly as i have for the past 5 years thanks 

Have you played it after last update or one before the last one?

2 updates before it takes 0 energy while no enemies are around and take energy per enemy.

Update ago they make it so energy drain is at most per 10 enemies.

Even with ~90% efficiency It was still good to keep it up.

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13 hours ago, (PSN)lnvader-Dib said:

Hello, I am not entirely certain whether or not this is intended but I felt it pertinent to bring to someone’s attention just in case it is considered an exploit. I recently brought the new frame Sevagoth into an Infested Salvage mission on Eris and I noticed that he is capable of holding up to 6 antiserum for the vaporizers. 3 for him and 3 for the shadow. The game registers there are 6 on screen so I wasn’t certain if this was intended. Either way felt it was important to point out.

Yes it's a bug. Remember how players got tons of Steel Essense when the game treat Shadow as a separate Warframe and were banned for it because they thought it is intended? This case here is the same. 

Btw, I also felt that letting Gloom be subsumeable is a mistake, as now Gloom is more a signature ability of Sevagoth than Shadow, because it is used more often than Shadow. So if every frame also uses Gloom for example, then Sevagoth has lost his identity.

Edited by kyori
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17 hours ago, Yulfan said:

Sorry but this is false. Gloom's drain is nowhere near this absurd. Few minutes in the Simulacrum is enough to witness the energy drain : at base, the drain is 0.75/s for each enemy, with a maximum of 10 enemies. There isn't any increase of the base drain itself over time. It will always stay at 0.75/s per enemy. Wich mean the max drain you can ever experienced is 7.5/s when unmodded. With a base energy pool of 188, minus the activation cost and without energy input in the meantime, Sevagoth's energy is depleted in 18.4 seconds.

This kind of drain is manageable. You can stack efficiency and duration to lessen the drain, or you can increase your mean to regain energy. In my case, i chose the latter : i only run with 128% Duration (with Prime Continuity lessened by Transient Fortitude, and Prime Flow for the pool) without any efficiency mod and build my Sevagoth around the combo Equilibrium and Synth mods on my Diriga. Because he has good Precepts for hitting multiple enemies and using Gas on his weapon (and thus frequently trigger Synth Deconstruct), I have a very consistent energy supply (in addition of normal energy orbs). I can do 40+ min Arbitration survival missions with Gloom up almost all the time without breaking a sweat.

Right now- yep, but is it intended?

I remember tons of nerfs just telling "this was not intended" so it is better to raise voice before something bad(like making it match what is in description of ability) could happen.

The thing i offered is around how it works right now(to be sure it will not suddenly change to values that are there, just not applying right now).

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so, i play on consoles and i haven't seen the changes on sevangoth yet, but ... talking to some pc users and seeing the notes on trello, i want to thank you for the work you do and the commitment so far 🙂 said this i changes to suggest; the first ability should hit nearby enemies when not aiming (strange to see a ghost brush against you instead of passing through you, it should haunt rather than hitchhiker 😆), I suggest: when using reap, shadow is attracted to enemies close to her when not aiming, applying the penalty makes the shadow no longer automatically hang up and drift to the next nearby opponent, now, when aiming the shadow spins in place (but what do we need if we can do just one instance of damage?), make sure that the shadow every time it hits an already hit enemy, the next instances of damage are halved (as happens with Limbo) so as not to have an overly Op ability.

the second ability as with the first I would make it reactivable every explosion at each passage of the shadow (as long as the damage remains 25% of the current life, with each use it should do less and less damage). the third ability, I wait to see updates to see the change you have made and express an opinion.

while for exalted Shadow I would say her second ability is difficult to aim, if you could make her slightly larger on the sides. the third skill instead costs too much to be impractical, if I have to choose between the three abilities of the shadow, then we spam the first and the second.

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il y a 48 minutes, Zilotz a dit :

Right now- yep, but is it intended?

I remember tons of nerfs just telling "this was not intended" so it is better to raise voice before something bad(like making it match what is in description of ability) could happen.

The thing i offered is around how it works right now(to be sure it will not suddenly change to values that are there, just not applying right now).

What I have explained is how it currently works and it's the same as described in the changes : a drain of 0.75/s for each enemy in range, without being able to exceed 10 times. There was some misstep with the hotfix 30.0.6 (at that time, there was no cap and the drain was also multiplied by the range increase, resulting in a drain of 1.5/s per enemy) but the next hotfix fixed it.

I can't predict the future. Digital Extreme may decide to make more changes later if they think it's necessary. But in it's current state, Gloom's drain is working as they intended.

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1 hour ago, DLOArceus said:

I would just like for Shadow to use heavy attacks when i want to use heavy attacks, honestly.

This. I tworked fine before hotfixes but been broken for me since.

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The addition of a way (either through a straight change to or augment for Reap) to have Reap's shadow seek out sowed enemies, or stay in one spot and act like a sentry without having to be ADSd the whole time. Kinda annoying for trying to use him in Defense and such.

Edited by Overtone_Jones
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Changes I'd still like to see.

  • By holding exalted shadow you take control of your reap in flight (if it's out).
  • Holding reunite while exalted shadow will cause you to teleport to Sev's location rather than Sev teleport to shadow's location. Can't tell you how many times this would've been useful and it makes sense. At the end of Reap the shadow automatically returns to Sev. 
  • Reap has AI and goes from target to target. Remove the hold function and always make it go at top speed.
  • Sow needs to scale better as it's damage becomes virtually nil in steel path.
  • Exalted shadow needs to be able to be cast with minimum 1% soul well.
  • Casting sow should put a debuff on enemies that allows killing them to generate soul well. This is NOT consumed by reap. So we don't have to refuse the sow/reap combo in steel path just to gain soul gage. 
  • Embrace angle at 80 degrees is kinda awkward? Why not make it a solid 90.
  • Consume is very clunky. I suggest make it similar to atlas' punch attack where it locks on to an enemy and hits them. Or make it more like reave where you phase through enemies dealing damage to all of them.
  • Death's Harvest it's literally identical to reap except it does no damage and is radial rather than a "projectile". To make it act differently I suggest getting kills from enemies effected by Death's harvest restore energy. Or reduce the cost to be the same as reap. 
  • Let sow be re-cast even if it resets earlier instances of the ability.
  • Allow kills in exalted shadow to trigger the synergies effect with sow that reap does.
Edited by Velaethia
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On 2021-04-13 at 7:28 AM, [DE]CoreyOnline said:

-snip-


@[DE]CoreyOnline Uhh, who is this megathread supposed to help? Mashing all the threads about Sevagoth into one massive pile makes it impossible to find anything or have a meaningful dialogue...
 

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If the "tweaks" we got are all DE has in mind,then we're not on a good track as they totally ignored the whole complaint section about some clunky movements, horrendous weird hitbox on his claw, that annoying momentum on his shadow form 2nd plus all the other things mentioned already.Imo they should give the death well meter some extra perks...all the other frames using a mechanic like that get their other abilities boosted ( gauss 4 the higher the battery the better his other abilities get ), nidus deals more dmg on his 1st for sure, the higher the stacks and fuels 2 abilities and his passive, Baruuk's restraints is the opposite but nonetheless it allows u to use his 4th AND gives additional dmg reduction, ember's 2nd the higher the heat meter, the better his 1 and 4 become( dmg wise ) and his 3 goes up to 100% armor strip...Death Well should do something like that, beside being a requirement for activating his 4th

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After spending some time playing Sevagoth, my conclusion is that he really is just slow, clunky, and awkward to play. I'm incredibly disappointed as I was pretty hyped and excited for Sevagoth, and he looks pretty awesome. But in terms of gameplay he's pretty terrible...

  • Gloom is his only good ability, and that can be subsumed onto other warframes anyway.
  • Reap is very slow, and feels awkward and clunky to use. We generally don't stand around aiming in this game, and instead are very mobile with jumping around and firing from the hip, so Reap does not seem to mesh well with Warframe's gameplay.
  • Sow is fine for building the Death Well, but otherwise is just meh. A slow damage over time effect. Boring.
  • Embrace is tremendously disappointing. I was excited to have a strong pull ability on a melee frame, but after using Embrace it has turned out to be laughably bad. Being restricted to a cone instead of a full circle makes it very inferior to other pull abilities, as again it doesn't mesh well with Warframe's fast-paced, mobile gameplay. Even when enemies are affected, the pull seems to be very slow and floaty, and enemies just get stuck on things.
  • Consume is an awkward dash that doesn't even provide continued momentum. When it runs out, the momentum just disappears, so you can't use it in a similar fashion to Zephyr's Tailwind to get around quickly.
  • Death's Harvest is okay. An AoE vulnerability debuff on enemies. I don't have any real complaint about this ability, but it does feel unnecessary as melee is already overpowered, and it's not an especially exciting ability.

Sevagoth has just one good ability in Gloom, which is a Helminth ability so other frames can take it. The Shadow has just one decent ability in Death's Harvest, which isn't even necessary so he can go without using any abilities. The Shadow is extremely slow and immobile. Being limited to melee without any good pulling abilities or movement abilities is incredibly restrictive and not fun.

I'm also sad to see that Sevagoth's Shadow can't equip sigils. This is the first time I really wanted to use the Bloodshed Sigil, and I can't use it.

So disappointed.

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38 minutes ago, --RV--arm4geddon-117 said:

If the "tweaks" we got are all DE has in mind,then we're not on a good track as they totally ignored the whole complaint section about some clunky movements, horrendous weird hitbox on his claw, that annoying momentum on his shadow form 2nd plus all the other things mentioned already.Imo they should give the death well meter some extra perks...all the other frames using a mechanic like that get their other abilities boosted ( gauss 4 the higher the battery the better his other abilities get ), nidus deals more dmg on his 1st for sure, the higher the stacks and fuels 2 abilities and his passive, Baruuk's restraints is the opposite but nonetheless it allows u to use his 4th AND gives additional dmg reduction, ember's 2nd the higher the heat meter, the better his 1 and 4 become( dmg wise ) and his 3 goes up to 100% armor strip...Death Well should do something like that, beside being a requirement for activating his 4th

I'm hoping it's going to be like Xaku. Changes over time. Little bit of change, reassess, little bit of change reassess. I'd love for it all in one go but I can tolerate this... I just hope... pray to the void that they aren't going to leave him in his current state. He is main material with some more fine tuning. As is however he is just someone to play when bored and wanting something a little different. But prob not in steel path. Not worth the stress. 

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@[DE]Danielle

 

Sevagoth Improvements:

·       Increase his sprint speed to 1.10 and the shadow to 1.20 (he`s a ghost he shouldn’t be slow)

 

1st ability:

·       Make the shadow be able to travel vertically to reach airborne enemies.

·       Instead of aiming holding the ability will mark the area you want the shadow to go.

·       Targeting an enemy will make the shadow continually deal damage to them.

·       If it`s stuck, targeting an area will teleport it out.

·       Enemies will be distracted by it, targeting it as a threat.

·       Increase the damage to 500.

 

2nd ability:

Exalted Shadow

·       Pressing the button again will halt its movement.

·       After the cast make it continue to have momentum instead of stopping.

·       Hitting a wall will make it stop immediately.

 

3rd ability:

·       Decrease the energy drain to 7 energy a second.

Exalted Shadow

·       Increase the range to 15m

·       Killing enemies affected will increase the gauge by 1%.

 

4th ability:

·       There is delay between pressing the melee attack button and the shadow slashing in the combos.

·       There is a bug when the back of it is still purple even through you change the energy colour.

Edited by (PSN)Vexx757
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I really wish Sevagoths consume didn’t lunge forward so much. Or at least allow a self cast or hold to maybe shorten the distance because right now it gets frustrating to the point I don’t like him where I fly off a map when I just need to consume an enemy right in front of me. Very easy to fly off map or unnecessarily get stuck in maps like Eris tiles. Please allow us to hold button and go just couple meters please. I know people like using to travel so this way it wouldn’t rid anyone of using it that way.

 

 

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Sevagoth looks and sounds cool, but otherwise feels very mediocre to play.

His base stats are weird - he's a got the EHP of a squishy caster frame, with the low energy bar of a tanky/combat-oriented frame. He's a jack of all trades and a master of none. And couple all that with his slowness in both forms*.

*The shadow technically has 1.1 sprint speed, but feels slow due to his large size

Criticisms of each skill:

1: Reap
1) It's easy to mispress 1 and double-cast this skill (although I guess it's good for shotgunning enemies in your face, especially when considering point 2:
2) The shadow only damages enemies once per cast. After this hit, you can make the shadow spin circles around the same enemy over and over, but nothing will happen.
3) The standalone damage is only great for Star Chart enemies. The damage done to endgame-tier enemies (Sorties, Arbitrations, Steel Path) is beyond abysmal.
4) Coupling the fact that the exalted bar is only charged by KILLS with point 3, this means Reap will never charge the Death Well in endgame modes.

SUGGESTION: Allow Reap to use the Shadow Claw stats, especially with mods. Allow Reap to fill the Death Well slightly with enemies who survive being struck.

2: Sow
1) A glorified emo Molecular Prime that only works when 1 is cast.
2) Passive DoT effect is too weak.
3) Can do respectable damage to Sortie/Arbitration-level enemies, but only if they're clustered up for multiple explosions and DON'T have armour (Grineer).

SUGGESTION: Allow Sow to fill the Death Well slightly EITHER when Reap hits and detonates enemies who survive, OR with each DoT tick.

3: Gloom
1) Drowns your vision in darkness if you have a Sentinel equipped - I expect this to be rectified at least.
2) Charge rate is way too slow, standing still to completely empty a filled base energy bar with primed continuity and streamline only gets it to 75% charge.
3) The slow radial expansion feels highly unnecessary, why not just have it be cast at max radius?

SUGGESTION: Have the radius come out at max size upon cast. Speed up the Death Well fill rate for Gloom, unless the suggestions for Sow and Reap haven't been done already. Also, get rid of that ground shadow aura on Sentinels.

4: Exalted Shadow
Relatively decent, but still has his fair share of issues. Core amongst them:
1) Pressing 5 forcibly deactivates this exalted mode, so you can't refuel energy mid-use with Zenurik's Energizing Dash.
2) Entering Exalted mode handicaps you with a half-filled low-base energy pool, forcing you to pre-prepare energy orbs or a Zenurik bubble cast in advance to be able to use abilities a little bit more often.

4.1: Embrace
No issues with this, it's straightforward, has good range and really bunches up enemies in a conic radius quite well.

4.2: Consume
EXTREMELY BUGGED/UNOPTIMIZED SKILL.
1) This ability only hits and affects ONE enemy exactly, no matter how many the Shadow flies through. This is literally OG Slash Dash/Rhino Charge if those abilities only hit one enemy.
2) No phasing ability - dash can be halted by a bunched-up group of enemies.
3) Hydroid Tidal Surge all over again - no steering capability beyond "auto-aim".
4) Unreliable auto-targeting, seemingly selects a random enemy if the Shadow is encircled by enemies.

SUGGESTION: Just make this thing be like OG Slash Dash/Rhino Charge, and hit+affect EVERY enemy in the travel path.

4.3: Death's Harvest
No complaints besides one MAJOR one:
The Shadow's own claw kills do not refill the Death Well.
This feels like either a massive oversight OR an anti-fun mechanism.

SUGGESTION: Please allow Shadow Claw kills to refill the Death Well while the Death's Harvest effect is active.

4.4: Reunite
Not much to say, but as someone else pointed out it'd be nice to be able to hold 4 to teleport back to the original cast position. Also, I find it amusing that 4.4 effectively makes the whole exalted mode feel like Operator Mode 2.0. Would be nice if pressing 4 inflicted some other radial debuff or something but, oh well.

Edited by RS219
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Had a bit longer with Sevagoth. Got a forma in him and the claws but I'm still taking it slow; mostly used him to farm 41 Neo B6 relics in PoE which has likely coloured my opinions in multiple ways (dont even talk to me about tusk thumpers). More observations:

The new mechanics for Gloom don't feel as terrible as I thought but they're still pretty bad. Wanting to have exactly zero enemies in the aura for free lifesteal is awkward but it does make the ability more convenient in objectives without a constant supply of enemies, and having the drain scale with how many enemies are actually slowed is nice in and of itself. It certainly feels nicer than the ramping drain, even though I'd personally have preferred that the ability just be made better to justify it rather than switching to this bizarre compromise. Also, it creates the possibility of min range Sevagoth that relies on Reap being a free-flying projectile to apply its debuff while enjoying free lifesteal which is just stupid enough for me to like.

Sevagoth doesn't feel nearly as bad to play in public lobbies as most frames (particularly frames that use kills as a resource), due to the fact that his base form is mainly a support that buffs damage (always appreciated) and heals (again, always appreciated) and he just needs to mark foes to get meter, not actually kill them himself.

The Shadow can't pick up items such as excavator batteries as far as I can tell. It can do most anything a standard warframe does (even if the animations come out a bit awkward) so this seems more an oversight.

I note that the Shadow Claws have a Naramon polarity on their stance slot despite this not doing anything at all. This is weird, and it makes me suspect that Sevagoth himself was supposed to have a Naramon aura but something in the data got mixed up.

I seem to mostly die when I happen to get killed at the tail end of an encounter where there aren't enough enemies to rez off of.

And now for the Whines:

I am renewing my request to improve Sow and Reap's interaction somehow, although I will say that I do go out of my way to set it up despite it not seeming to do much so it's obviously doing something right. I have accepted that it's not really for killing things so much as softening them up, but it still seems to scale very poorly.

I am renewing my request to make Sow recastable. Again, I don't care if it clears the previous targets, I just want to be able to recast it if I accidentally miss a straggler and run past.

I am renewing my request to improve Embrace's peripheral coverage. The abilty's cone seems to actually have its vertex a bit ahead of Seva where the enemies will gather, which is logical, but it still feels bad to have it whiff on enemies that are just a bit to the left or right of me.
I've gotten used to how Embrace works, though.

Despite my whining, Gloom feels like it's in an acceptable state right now, but I would like it to not apply the vfx to sentinels (especially since they don't seem to benefit anyways?).
It'd also be nice if Gloom gave life regen to "inert" actors such as defense objectives that otherwise cannot benefit from its lifesteal, although it's not strictly necessary. It would make Seva have more of a solid role in some missions, though.

It'd be nice if Consume gave brief invulnerability. Almost all "approach" abilities in the game do so it seems weird that this one doesn't. I can understand if the concern is that it might make Sevagoth too easy to rez, but I think it'd be reasonable.

It'd be nice if Sevagoth had some way of rezzing off of bosses. Most bosses in the game do have mooks though so it's not a huge deal.

E: TBC my impressions are still pretty positive, especially since Reap is no longer a moron. There are some changes/improvements I'd like to see but I wouldn't be particularly upset if not much was changed about him further.

Edited by MrFrog9
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  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)
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