Jump to content

Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)


[DE]CoreyOnline
 Share

Recommended Posts

On nintendo switch:

When coming back out of sevagoth's shadow a lot of times the game acts as though you're holding down the right trigger. it's not a joycon issue, it's something in the game. You have to hit R to fix it otherwise you can't fire weapons or anything. Makes for an incredibly annoying hydron run.

Also, not sure if it's intended but sevagoth doesn't seem to gain xp while using sevagoth's shadow. Weird to be on stage 15 of hydron and not gained a single level because i spent most of that time in sevagoth's shadow form.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sevagoth needs work because as of right now I don't really see a reason to play him. I'll start with his shadow.

Sevagoth's Shadow: has terrible movespeed. I don't understand how you give Base Seva .95 speed but Shadow 1.10 yet feels worse to move around. It makes no sense. Seriously Shadow, feels about as bad as Werehog from Sonic Unleashed if not worse.  Speaking of that game the melee resembles it too closely.

Suggestion:

Movespeed needs to be increased as well as Parkour Velocity. I don't want to play as a slow ghost.  If the former can't be done give either Consume or Death's Harvest a Movement speed boost based on how many enemies were killed. A cap of 20 to 30% would be nice.

Consume: is terrible in comparison to Hydroid's Tidal Surge for the sole reason of having no i-frames. It is also about as bad as TailWind (pre-Rework) and worse than Mach Rush. If you're not going to give i-frames on Consume at least allow it to go through multiple enemies. I'm playing as a ghost and can't go through multiple enemies?

Suggestion:

The speed of Consume should be based on lightly tapping the button and holding the button. For example, if I were to lightly press it I'd go a short distance with some control afterwards while charging increases distance with less control. To be clear, what I mean by control is that there's a huge delay after casting Consume where you can't do anything. until its done.

Reunite: Only problem I have with this is that it functions like Operator Mode. Base Sevagoth is squishy and I prefer to use ES in a "Safe room" so I don't get blasted after using Reunite. Please allow for Reunite to teleport you back to Sevagoth's original position. If that's too "OP" some brief i-frames would be nice upon Shadow's return.

Lastly, there needs to be some way accumulate meter while in Shadow form. It's very annoying swapping between Base and Shadow just so I can maintain the latter. Meanwhile, I can keep Exalted Blade up much longer. Oh another thing before I forget. Can we have Basegoth's remaining energy pool get transferred to Shadow? Doesn't have to be the whole thing it could be percentage based.

Embrace: When using this then Consume it makes Shadow do a short hop in the air. Not sure if intended or not but just putting that out there.

 

Basegoth: He is squishy and has no CC but my main problem with him is Reap. It moves too slow, the "control" mechanic is mostly useless, only hits once, only good for corridors/camping and it doesn't track enemies on its own.

Suggestion: How to make it better? Do the opposite of what I've listed here especially the control part. It would make more sense for it to seek enemies out and move onto others to inflict the debuff. If and I say IF the speed was increased greatly then I can see some value in controlling it on my own.

Sow: Please make this re-castable. It's annoying not being able to recast this especially in missions where im in it for an hour or more or the enemies are 90+ right off the bat and my 1-ply toilet paper cat dies. For anyone that does get what I mean, basically I can't find the one enemy I need to kill so I can recast.

Edited by (PSN)NightzeroAX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My turn to give my two cents about Sevagoth :)

Concept :
One thing is clear seeing his kit: Sevagoth is not a DPS. He is not made to annihilate groups of enemies with his skills alone. It's easy to see that none of Sevagoth's skills are designed to deal high damage. Thus, Sevagoth seems to me more like a support. He has the profile of a voodoo shaman who inflicts debuffs from the middle of the brawl. He thus supports the rest of the team, but also his Shadow which brings the DPS which he does not have himself.

It is therefore with this conception that I have of this frame that I will review his skills.

Reap :

Révélation

First debuff skill where we send the Shadow towards a group of enemies. The Shadow deals Radiation damage to its targets, causing friendly fire among them, and increasing the damage they receive from all sources, quite similar to Molecular Prime.

It is not meant to kill enemies on his own. It's just a debuff that increases other sources of damage. This is why it is not necessary to maintain it on the enemies contrary to what one might think. Once the debuff is applied, you don't need to worry about it anymore and you can shoot at vulnerable enemies.

The damage increase is noticeable and welcome. Nothing to say about it. On the other hand, applying Radiation to confuse enemies is much less noticeable. It sounds interesting in theory, but in practice it hardly helps since the player is most likely already killing the enemies targeted.

Rather than this Radiation proc, it would be much better for the Shadow to attract aggro from enemies. It will be much more effective in fulfilling this role (diverting attention of enemies from Sevagoth) and will offer some CC.  In addition, there would be more incentive to control the Shadow by guiding and grouping enemies, rather than throwing it at them and not caring.

Another problem is that we can't control the Shadow with our melee weapon, since we can't aim with it. This is not a problem most of the time, but in certain circumstances where we are restricted to our melee weapon (Sorties or event), the Shadow is just out of control. Just allow the Shadow to be controlled when guarding.

Sow :

Révélation

Second skill that applies a DoT to all enemies within range. However, he is also not made to kill enemies on his own. It finds its usefulness in the synergy it has with other skills. But …

Its first synergy with Reap is disappointing. I understand the intention : by dealing damage based on targets' current health (25% of their current health), the goal is to make it faster to kill all enemies by other means. However, the result is bad. Detonations only happen once for each cast of Reap (it feel really stupid to spam Reap for that), and detonation damage is only effective at low/mid level and is quickly useless in more higher level content, or by the mere presence of armor.

Imo, a good change would be to cause the detonations to occur every time a seeded enemy enters in contact with the Shadow and as long as he remains in contact. This way, you apply Sow to all enemies around, then harvest them by moving the Shadow among them, which once again encourages controling the Shadow. And with my previous suggestion for Reap, the enemies would tend to attack and follow the shadow, which would allow them to group up and amplify the effect. I don't think that's too powerful considering that Shadow's current duration is still quite short compared to Sow's, requiring multiple Reap casts to achieve equivalent uptime, and Shadow's movement speed, even without acceleration, remains faster than enemies speed.

Its second synergy with Gloom is much more effective, as DoT damages allows him to take advantage of Gloom's life steal. And thanks to its range, we obtain a large number of regen sources, which help Sevagoth's survivability. For this particular use, I have nothing to say about this synergy, i really like it.

However, this skill really needs to be recastable. This has been said before, but this restriction is really annoying in the majority of situations where enemies keep coming in, while those that were already seeded are dying. It also completely cripple both synergies.

Gloom :

Révélation

Third skill, the most important for Sevagoth. Apply Slow to all enemies in the area and grant life steal to all allies' attacks in the area of effect.

I don't have much to say. It is efficient and very useful. I am also quite happy with the current drain. It is admittedly quite expensive, but it is still manageable. It is perfectly possible to use it when needed without being too handicapped to use other skills and with a more advanced build, it is possible to maintain it permanently. In addition, recent changes have made it more convenient to use.

Sevagoth in general :
Sevagoth is a frame that I find quite interesting. In my eyes, its primary goal is to improve the damage of weapons and skills, whether it's ours, those of the Shadow, or those of the allies. There is of course some problems, but I like the gameplay which is quite different from what we are used to see in this game.

There is unfortunately the rather annoying issue which is the Death Well. All of Sevagoth's skills contribute to filling the Death Well. However, while Gloom passively fills it while living enemies are within range, Reap and Sow are more active means who fill it only when enemies dies. So obviously, it's really easy to fill in low/mid level content, but it is much slower once facing higher level content, which greatly delays the use of Exalted Shadow.

I think it would be better to decrease the Death Well filling requirement, if not to remove it altogether. The Exalted Shadow will still be dependent of the Death Well to stay on the field, but that would at least allow it to be released sooner and more frequently.

Now, Exalted Shadow's skills. And oh god, what a letdown …

Embrace :
First skill to gather all enemies within range while incapacitating them. Simple and efficient. No complaints.

Consume :

Révélation

Second skill to dash at an enemy, which deals damage, proc Radiation, and steals life.

This skill is really bad. First of all, this skill affect a single enemy, even if we go through a group of them. For a skill where the goal is to heal when we are in a difficult situation, jumping into a group of enemies only to incapacitate one is totally counterintuitive. It is also very clunky and impratical. The dash goes really too far (which makes it super difficult to control), and even if you pass through enemies, it miss almost all the time if the shadow is not perfectly centered on the target, making the whole move simply suicidal. It should be easier to register a hit. Oh and by the way : even if you are aiming properly, if the enemy is moving just a tiny bit after casting the skill, it will miss.

Also, I wouldn't be against a nerf of the distance traveled by his 2. It's too much for what it's used for, which is quite detrimental. And while this skill can be used to travel a long distance, it's just a waste of energy. It's easier to bullet jump. Another possibility would be to stop the movement as soon as the shadow meets an enemy, obviously on the condition of facilitating the hit registration.

But overall, this skill is disappointing and seem useless at best. In every situation, it's better to simply attacking the targets directly. And if we are in Gloom zone, we are more likely to use Embrace instead to bring enemies to us, and since we have the life steal on every attack, the Consume's heal is rendered useless. Finally as Reap, the Radiation proc is also useless because we are more likely killing this enemy first.

Honestly, I don't have any suggestion for this skill, other than changing it completely. The only use I found for this skill is to take advantage of the fact there is no hitbox during the dash to pass through a group of enemies easily and attacking them in the back or for reaching a particular target (Arbitration drones for example). But this use is far too niche to be significant.

Regarding Arbitration drones, there is a bug currently causing Resurgence Burden picked up by the Exalted Shadow to stay active, even when all allies are revived. And the debuff is apply permanently to Sevagoth when reunited with his Shadow.

Tombstone (I am talking about it here since it is related to Consume) :

Révélation

I hate it. I really REALLY hate it.

This passive has all the inconvenients of Consume, and add even more. For example during the revive phase, the camera takes a higher position (the same as when we are dead), messing up the aiming : the shadow tend to pass over the enemies if you aim straight at them. You have to aim at the ground to avoid this, but as said without any garantee that the hit will register.

Because of all of Consume's issues, this resurrection mechanic is a pain to pull off and will fail almost all the time. We can't even speed up our death and revive immediately. We are stuck with a crippled Exalted Shadow for the whole bleedout duration.

Just change it. Change the whole process. Instead of this mess, the Exalted Shadow could for example kidnap enemies and bring them to the tombstone to be sacrificed, like when we bring energy cells to the excavator. For that, the Exalted Shadow would latch onto an enemy and we would have to control it to bring it to the tombstone. It's just an idea but honestly, i would prefer anything over Consume for the revive mechanics …

Death's Harvest :

Révélation

This third skill is basically a radial Reap, applying the weakening effect but without damage or Radiation proc.

I think it's lazy to have a whole skill for what was an innate effect with Reap. Since we are controlling the same Shadow we cast with Reap, we would thought that this effect would be Shadow's passive. But at least, unlike Consume, it's still useful if we ever need to do even more damage than we are already doing with Shadow's Claws.

But it's a shame that this skill applies the effect to fill Death Well, but you can't fill it when you're in this form. It give even less incentive to use it frequently, but only when the Death Well is nearly empty to prepare to refill it once reunited with Sevagoth.

Exalted Shadow in general :
It's sad, but Exalted Shadow suffer from a real lack of imagination. It's basically a killable remotely controlled melee weapon with a pull. Worst : as I use Sevagoth, I come to use Exalted Shadow less and less and now, I can go through a whole survival mission without ever taking it out once, since Exalted Shadow does absolutely nothing to complement Sevagoth's kit. The pull is the only meaningful feature, since its other skills are either boring or completely useless. It's good at dealing damage, but it bring nothing else on the table. I wish I had more opportunity to use Exalted Shadow, but if all it can do effectively is dealing damage, I can already do that with my weapons.

Edited by Yulfan
Typo
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have only just started to play this Warframe but some initial impressions:

The Warframe feels incredibly clunky and slow, not "space ninja" at all. A lot of this is just perception, for example his running and parkour animations feel like moving in honey, even if he is moving at the right speed. His abilities are very slow in their movement and animations, the gameplay cycle of using his 4 is slow, the Shadow's melee is slow. I'm not judging the effectiveness of the Warframe in combat I'm just saying every single action and movement of the Frame "feels" sluggish, clunky and dull. There have been other slow, deliberate Warframes but this is well beyond that.

Someone mentioned but Gloom's visual needs to be adjusted because it blinds you and party members if you or they are using flying companions. I hate having a Sevagoth in my group because I can't see what I'm doing (just like void storms so appropriate I guess).

Reap needs to pick a consistent aiming style and stick to it. Flying straight out is a terrible feeling aiming mechanism. Pick one, either have the Reap fly to where you are targeting or have it roll out along terrain, currently it goes up steps but doesn't follow them down so its terrible to use around steps. EDIT: To clarify, the steering part of Reap feels fine, in fact quite good, it's the hipfire aiming that is bad.

Embrace has a similar issue, it just feels odd to aim like it's not going where you want it. It should essentially just feel the same as grabbing stuff with Nidus or Mag (one of those two options).

I don't know if it is my settings but Sow has a weird visual effect, it goes off next to you but doesn't seem to have either an outer marker or a hit marker on mobs it impacts. The result is when you fire it you are left wondering whether or not you hit any of the enemies. Give it one or the other, or maybe just a clearer marker if one is there that I'm just not seeing.

I realise this is a design choice but having Exalted Shadow not fill the bar from gunfire makes it feel bad to use weapons with Sevagoth. Every time you kill with a weapon you think "wasted". Am I misreading what is happening here? Even filling at 1/2 or 1/4 the rate as killing with abilities would go a long way to making this feeling go away.

I don't actually have a problem with this Warframe's abilities and killing power at this stage (but I haven't taken it anywhere serious yet). Most of my criticisms are around just a general feeling of sluggishness and clunky usage, poor visuals and poor "feeling" around gameplay. Unfortunately fixing these elements is probably more effort than adjusting ability issues. I would not play this Warframe on any regular basis primarily because there is zero excitement factor in his movement and gameplay loop, Rhino and Inaros feel more like a space ninja than poor old Sevagoth.

 

Edited by Zaniel_Aus
Clarify
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-04-26 at 10:58 AM, RS219 said:

 

4.2: Consume
EXTREMELY BUGGED/UNOPTIMIZED SKILL.
1) This ability only hits and affects ONE enemy exactly, no matter how many the Shadow flies through. This is literally OG Slash Dash/Rhino Charge if those abilities only hit one enemy.
2) No phasing ability - dash can be halted by a bunched-up group of enemies.
3) Hydroid Tidal Surge all over again - no steering capability beyond "auto-aim".
4) Unreliable auto-targeting, seemingly selects a random enemy if the Shadow is encircled by enemies.

SUGGESTION: Just make this thing be like OG Slash Dash/Rhino Charge, and hit+affect EVERY enemy in the travel path.

 

Thanks for this, without a doubt this ability is the one that needs the most work. I cannot stand the way it works considering I use the shadows first ability to grab the enemies there is no reason why I need to travel a mile just to heal and fall off the map? I know it’s early and frames like Xaku were bad at first and then made hundred times better later. Hopefully Sev can be made much improved as well considering his investment in forma is pretty crazy. Considering I have 10 so far I would hope him to be a fancier valkyr except the fact my valkyr is atleast invulnerable and much more cheaper to build up.

Edited by (PSN)Toolriz
Spell
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sevagoth's Gloom + Mirage Hall of Mirrors:

Screenshots here: https://imgur.com/a/L7uTv1u

When Mirage is affected by Gloom, the aura appears under each of her clones as well, even when they're invisible. This ends up clogging up most of the screen and it makes it extremely hard to see. Dark energy colors don't make the aura less intrusive like they do on other abilities.

The effect also affects companions, and is particularly distracting on Sentinels that sometimes pop into the middle of the screen.

It would be a QoL improvement if any or all of the following in my opinion:

a) Mirage's Hall of Mirrors clones didn't get the aura under their feet

b) the aura under the clones faded away similar to the clones fading while in FoV

c) dark energy colors made Gloom's aura less visible

d) the aura effect was much smaller

I absolutely love Gloom as an ability and plan on subsuming it onto several frames, it's just really difficult to use on Mirage right now solely because of the screen clutter.

Edited by T-Hodge
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think people complaining about the shadow feeling slow really shows how important viewport design is in visual media

as far as I can tell the shadow is objectively quite fast, but since the shadow is larger than a normal warframe and the camera is pulled back it makes it feel like you're covering less ground than you are because objects in your environment look smaller in comparison

E: While I'm on the subject, Consume has a brief halt at the end when used as a dash which feels annoying, especially when used consecutively. I would very much like it to not do this.

Edited by MrFrog9
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Zaniel_Aus said:

I realise this is a design choice but having Exalted Shadow not fill the bar from gunfire makes it feel bad to use weapons with Sevagoth. Every time you kill with a weapon you think "wasted". Am I misreading what is happening here? Even filling at 1/2 or 1/4 the rate as killing with abilities would go a long way to making this feeling go away.

Weapon kills do in fact fill up the gauge, the killed enemies just have to be affected by Reap/Sow/Death's Harvest beforehand. Even kills from your teammates work.

Edited by Dragazer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a fan of the passive. I think that it feels absolutely awful to use, and is useless in anything above level 30 missions.

The reason for this is that the dash ability that shadow has doesn't do enough damage to higher level enemies to revive you, and it also essentially just flings you across the map uncontrollably past the enemies, meaning you are wasting precious time simply getting your bearings.

I can understand not allowing the 1 and 3 to be used in passive mode, but you should atleast be able to use your melee attacks alongside your 2.

 

Also, if you are using only melee weapons, the only way you can change the direction of sevagoth's REAP is by throwing the weapon, meaning that it is exclusive to thrown weapons. No other melee weapon allows redirecting REAP to follow your aiming reticle. THis should be changed to also change direction if using block.,

Edited by Robbery525
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-04-26 at 3:20 AM, --RV--arm4geddon-117 said:

If the "tweaks" we got are all DE has in mind,then we're not on a good track as they totally ignored the whole complaint section about some clunky movements, horrendous weird hitbox on his claw, that annoying momentum on his shadow form 2nd plus all the other things mentioned already.Imo they should give the death well meter some extra perks...all the other frames using a mechanic like that get their other abilities boosted ( gauss 4 the higher the battery the better his other abilities get ), nidus deals more dmg on his 1st for sure, the higher the stacks and fuels 2 abilities and his passive, Baruuk's restraints is the opposite but nonetheless it allows u to use his 4th AND gives additional dmg reduction, ember's 2nd the higher the heat meter, the better his 1 and 4 become( dmg wise ) and his 3 goes up to 100% armor strip...Death Well should do something like that, beside being a requirement for activating his 4th

Nothing this tuesday... that's concerning... not even an update announcing he's still being worked on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Weapon kills do in fact fill up the gauge, the killed enemies just have to be affected by Reap/Sow/Death's Harvest beforehand. Even kills from your teammates work.

You are correct but that's a big range and clunkiness issue. I have to get within range, use my slow power, THEN kill it with a gun. In the mean time every one else has just pulled the trigger on that distant mob because they don't have to worry about their 4 ability being tied to that shot. That's a completely different feeling to various frames that have synergistic powers or powers that enhance weapon's fire. The gameplay cycle with Sevagoth is set up to make you feel bad IF you shoot something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Il y a 3 heures, Zaniel_Aus a dit :

You are correct but that's a big range and clunkiness issue. I have to get within range, use my slow power, THEN kill it with a gun. In the mean time every one else has just pulled the trigger on that distant mob because they don't have to worry about their 4 ability being tied to that shot. That's a completely different feeling to various frames that have synergistic powers or powers that enhance weapon's fire. The gameplay cycle with Sevagoth is set up to make you feel bad IF you shoot something.

Sorry but I don't understand your statement. Indeed, you have to afflict enemies with Reap/Sow/Death's Harvest so that their death may fill the Death Well. Reap and Sow are fairly fast to cast and with a good range, especially Sow which affect everything, without line of sight. Gloom on the other hand fill it passively bit by bit for each living enemy in its range, and is more like a complement to the other two.

As I have explained in my review of Sevagoth few posts earlier, Sevagoth is clearly a support frame who can enhance others damages (whether it is yours, those of your Shadow, or your teammates). Your only concern is to be a bit ahead of the rest of the group to apply your debuff beforehand (Sow on a wide radial range, and/or Reap to a specific group or tough enemy to weaken it/them). Once it's done, you and your teammates are good to shoot. I don't understand why this make you feel bad to use your weapon.

Edited by Yulfan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Yulfan said:

Sorry but I don't understand your statement. Indeed, you have to afflict enemies with Reap/Sow/Death's Harvest so that their death may fill the Death Well. Reap and Sow are fairly fast to cast and with a good range, especially Sow which affect everything, without line of sight. Gloom on the other hand fill it passively bit by bit for each living enemy in its range, and is more like a complement to the other two.

As I have explained in my review of Sevagoth few posts earlier, Sevagoth is clearly a support frame who can enhance others damages (whether it is yours, those of your Shadow, or your teammates). Your only concern is to be a bit ahead of the rest of the group to apply your debuff beforehand (Sow on a wide radial range, and/or Reap to a specific group or tough enemy to weaken it/them). Once it's done, you and your teammates are good to shoot. I don't understand why this make you feel bad to use your weapon.

Compare to another Warframe that provides (de)buffs like Banshee. If you DON'T cast Sonar or a mob is out of its range then when you use weapons it has no impact on your other abilities, you just miss a bit of damage by shooting early. With Sevagoth if you don't cast Sow (for example) or the mob is out of range then you forfeit charge on your 4. So every time you fire on a mob without the debuff it feels "wasted". If I shoot 20 mobs at long range with Sniper Rifle or Bow then Sound Quake doesn't fail to "charge".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Il y a 2 heures, Zaniel_Aus a dit :

Compare to another Warframe that provides (de)buffs like Banshee. If you DON'T cast Sonar or a mob is out of its range then when you use weapons it has no impact on your other abilities, you just miss a bit of damage by shooting early. With Sevagoth if you don't cast Sow (for example) or the mob is out of range then you forfeit charge on your 4. So every time you fire on a mob without the debuff it feels "wasted". If I shoot 20 mobs at long range with Sniper Rifle or Bow then Sound Quake doesn't fail to "charge".

In that case, use Reap instead, since it has no range limitation (only a life time) and you can speed it up to cover even more distance. But honestly, i find this issue really specific. I know this is not pleasant to read, but don't use Sevagoth if you want this kind of playstyle, since nothing in his kit encourage long range fights. He is meant to be in the center of the brawl, slowing and weakening enemies. Not all frames are good at everything 😔

Edited by Yulfan
Typo
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Epitaph bug: Not obeying Zephyr's tornado rules regarding critical damage. When using it to shoot zeph's tornadoes, the epitaph deals no critical damage at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2021/4/28 AM4点43分 , MrFrog9 说:

E: While I'm on the subject, Consume has a brief halt at the end when used as a dash which feels annoying, especially when used consecutively. I would very much like it to not do this.

Cant believe De still make these awful dash ability. I thought they figure out how to make it already when they are making Gauss. But no. they just go back to making awful dash ability on Grendel, Zephyr  and now this one.

Edited by BRZZAFK
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

having played around with him a bit...I have some feedback. So, out the gate, he is forma intense, like...really forma intense. Between base sev, his shadow, and his claws...there really needs to be a way to make forma apply to a frame + additions(Such as valkyr and her claws or khora and venari, ect.) because if we get more frames like sevagoth, or even more frames with exalted items, we need to address acquireing forma or/and how it's used on these frames.

But moving on from that, base Sevagoth is...very squishy, and he really feels like he should have way more energy. I mean, maybe the idea is to activate gloom, hit something, get HP back, and turn it off, but uh...then you're immediately back down to low HP and have to turn it on again. And look, I get that him going down isn't a major concern, but it's annoying with most of my time as Sevagoth is in the downed state...like, it's cool that I can 1shot enemies on the steel path while downed but...I kinda wanna play the warframe itself? And at that point i'm just dumping as much as I can into base form being able to stay alive.

Basically his survivability has all been wrapped up into 1 power. Life steal and aoe slow. With rather massive drain. I feel the slow, or the life steal, should be removed from Gloom and put onto one of his other powers, preferably the slow(work it into Sow perhaps?) that way we can bring down Glooms energy drain. But that's the other issue, I'm not sure if the energy drain is too much because the power does too much, or because Sevagoth just doesn't have a big enough energy pool, or maybe both? To keep him alive, you basically have to build for range/efficiency for gloom and just have that power constantly active, maybe throw on a rage. But he is oh so very #*!%in' squish that even with gloom running you'll still get downed because enemies hurt.

And again, I love that his downed state actually works(Unlike Inaros, perhaps give a buff to Inaros down state so it...ya know, actually works vs higher level enemies?) but I don't want to be *constantly* downed. Like, that is literally a way we *can* play him, just get downed and you can instant murder...pretty much anything that's not a boss. 

And so on to his other powers...Reap and Sow...I really feel like these should swap positions? Sow be first, reap be second, it's a minor nit pick. Another thing is that the Reap Shadow...doesn't pull enemy aggro, like I get you didn't want it to be "Wil-o-wisp but it weakens enemies" but...enemies see this spooky shadow coming at them and do nothing to stop it? it doesn't draw any enemy fire to provide just a *tiny* bit of extra CC for Sevagoth so he doesn't get merked? Also, perhaps make it so when you cast Sow while Reap is out it casts Sow at Reap's location? Could make for an interesting augment if you don't want to make it a inbuilt synergy between the two powers(Or if you don't want to copy Wisp too much).

I will admit, I really liked the idea of the whole "Takes % more damage" rather than "Strips % of enemy defenses", it's a different wording to the same solution of making enemies dead faster. How ever...I'd like to be able to fill Sev's well(at least a itsy bitsy bit) without having to cast his powers...but this goes back to the whole problem of him not feeling like he has enough energy unless you build him for efficiency so i'll leave that to the dev's to ponder, I'd like to believe that a good chunk of his problems is just "Not enough energy" but it might be more complex than that.

Onwards to his Shadow! The Shadow, on paper, looks tanky and intended to be a melee fighter. I built him as such and found out that he was still...surprisingly squishy. But he has his power 2 which has life steal! And now he is out of energy! So, where is the problem here cause he isn't that different from Valkyr in terms of shields, armor, energy. Well, Shadow has like 150 less armor than Valkyr but the rest of the stats are the same. Yet he still feels VASTLY more squish, I wonder why? I mean Valkyr does have Hysteria, which makes her invulnerable to damage AND has life steal. But Shadow has a power with life steal as well, but no invulnerability. All I can think of is somehow that extra 150 armor really makes a difference. Personally, I feel with the shadow making it a "tank" was perhaps the wrong way to go, making it more about evasion would have been more...thematic perhaps? After all, it's a shadow, a whispy spirit thing. So, my idea is to remove it's shields and give it a passive evasion bonus, perhaps even something along the lines of "Drain death's well so a shot doesn't hit" kind of thing. Otherwise, give him some extra armor.

Honestly when I first encountered the Death's Well concept I was like "Oh, neat." And...when it turned out to be literally just a timer for how long you can be in Shadow state I was a little sad. Considering it's filled by souls of the dead, I honestly thought it would be like "Each time Shadow dies, it consumes half the well to restore his health/shields and gives a few seconds of invulnerability" or/and "Instead of energy, his powers drain the well", which I feel would be a vast improvement to how Sevagoth and his Shadow play. Use his Well for more than just a "You have until this is empty to use this power".

Side note, I noticed that he doesn't have a block animation of any kind while in shadow form? I was never able to really...consistently trigger a "I am blocking with my claws to prevent damage" situation with him.

And back to his powers. They are great powers, they really are, but his energy pool...feels so tiny for a frame that feels like it's meant to use it's powers frequently. Like with Valkyr, you're really not using 3 of her powers all that often, primarily you're using Warcry(Which you use less frequently if you have eternal war) and occasionally hysteria to get HP back(Or now Gloom because omg it's amazing). Shadow really feels like you want to use all those powers, or at least 2 of them semi often. You're pretty much going to be spamming consume at some point just to stay alive(And you can spam it if you have rage, but at that point you're stuck in a loop of having to spam consume just to stay alive, because again despite only having only 150 less armor than Valkyr he feels very squishy.

Now, to discuss Consume...it's hit or miss. Using the power isn't that hard, aim at enemy and press 2. However, I have to say the distance he moves if you miss is...overwhelming. And the accuracy needed for it to count as a "hit" is...a little wonky, if you miss you are punished for it. I tested him out in the simulacrum and wow it was so easy to go over the ledges. Then in actual missions...yeah, I actually fell off some ledges quite often. Solution? Eh, basically make it into a more standard dash power with much more control. Like Revenant's Reave.

From there...his other powers kinda just feel fine? Again, the idea of "Enemies take X% more damage" is a solid alternative to armor/shield stripping. I like it. Same job, different name admittedly but it's still nice.

TL;DR, Sevagoth feels like he is too squishy because either he doesn't have enough CC(Making Reap draw enemy fire would help) because he current CC power(Gloom) has a rather sizable drain on his small feeling energy pool. This can be countered by using Rage on him and trying to keep Gloom active, but he still has frequent moments of getting downed due to sheer squish, so increasing his energy pool and allowing Reap to draw aggro should address his squishy nature allowing for more flexible and various builds. 
Shadow feels squishier than he should despite having only 150 less armor than Valkyr, frequently gets stuck in consume loops just to stay alive when coupled with Rage which again feels needed due to a small energy pool and a need to use his powers  to make enemies dead(Death's Harvest) or to stay alive(Consume, Embrace for CC).
Death's Well functions primarily as a timer for Shadow, when it could also be used to fuel his powers instead of an energy pool, or be used as a "shadow self revive" mechanic should he be killed, though admittedly I would much rather he simply get a bump to his HP, remove his shields, and an evasion bonus at X% of Death's Well filled.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-04-27 at 4:32 AM, (PSN)NightzeroAX said:

Lastly, there needs to be some way accumulate meter while in Shadow form. It's very annoying swapping between Base and Shadow just so I can maintain the latter. Meanwhile, I can keep Exalted Blade up much longer. Oh another thing before I forget. Can we have Basegoth's remaining energy pool get transferred to Shadow? Doesn't have to be the whole thing it could be percentage based.

you can use https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Preparation on shadow and have 100% energy everytime you use the shadow it counts as spawn into mission.

Overall i like these ideas and i agree. movespeed is horrid you can get bit faster movespeed with bullet jump or forward block attacks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not very fond of the way Sevagoth's dodge is just another bulletjump. It feels lazy.

My suggestion? To just keep this to an animation change and not another ability, either keep the regular dodgeroll or something more like a dive-roll. Something ethereal.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-04-22 at 5:00 PM, Rovaeden said:

Nice write up!


I love your idea of Consume being a leap attack and I immediately thought of Garuda's 1 Dread Mirror, or 2 Blood Altar where she leaps to an enemy to execute the ability. There is so much more control in that ability.
Consume as it stands is just awful and I hate that it is forced use during the passive.
Modding for Range for Embrace makes Consume even worse to try to use in any map (most maps) that is anything other than perfectly straight, long hallways. It makes me want to build Shadow for negative range just to make Consume less miserable to use. (my actual solution was to retire Sevagoth to the bottom of the toy box)

Honestly, as I think about it, I would much prefer Consume to just be a buff that affected Shadow Claws.
That would also fix the chaotic mess of the passive so you could just melee attack 5 enemies who would immediately die and fill the passive because claws would be buffed with the improved Consume from the passive.
Solved.
Easy.

 

I also particularly love your idea of Reap having synergy with 4 where you can just take control of the Shadow where ever it may be. That would be awesome and its lack is a missed opportunity for potential greatness. Also a lack of casting animation for Reap would be wonderful, as if the Shadow is a being possessed of its own will and setting out to haunt enemies rather than a mindless ball of energy that Sev has to Haiduken around the place.
 

 

I don't think Sow needs to be a targeted aoe but I do think it needs to scale so that it actually does more than tickle enemies on steel path.

Ultimately, my entire issue with Sev can be boiled down to "Shadow is clunky and un-fun to use and overall the kit is not viable (without a powerful additional weapon) for steel path".
It really isn't an accomplishment that Sevagoth can "omg like totally wreck enemies on star chart!!" wooo.... golf clap.

With the addition of Steel Path to the game that is the new barometer for success for a new frame, like it or not.

Anyway, back to Sow.
Given how Sevagoth is such an active ability use frame, he should be able to consistently fill his Death Well with only his own powers regardless of the mission he is playing.

The FACT that, in Steel Path, I have to cast Sow, ignore Reap and proceed to kill enemies with my melee weapon in order to summon Shadow so I can kill enemies with my exalted melee weapon...?
Umm.. its stupid.
Why bother?
Why not just toggle gloom and finish the mission with my equipped melee weapon and ignore Shadow altogether? Might as well Helminth over his 4 at that point with Dispenser to help with energy conservation.
...or just play Nidus... or Inaros... or anyone really.

Thanks, I put some thought into some of those lol.

The several changes they made to Sev made him much more fun and playable IMO. Those items I wrote down were Day 1 first thoughts.
After installing 2 forma into Sev, 4 into Shadow, and 4 into claws, I think he is in a pretty good state, with the exception of Consume, which I think still should be a leap or buff as you suggest, instead of an uncontrolled slingshot at all times. Of the two, I would prefer a targeted leap, similar to garuda. But the rest of the kit feels pretty balanced.

The claws with 4 forma in them and Sev @ anything above 150% strength can one-shot level 180 enemies. So I'm thinking that Shadow's 3 should be a toggle instead of a cast. Enemies can simply die way too quick for 3 to be even worth casting multiple times. Why would I waste the energy if 1 additional melee attack will kill them, rendering the 3 useless since you have to re-cast it and waste the energy for every small group of enemies.

The 1 & 4 synergy would be a great addition and I hope they do it, but doubt they will.

After playing him a bit, I think SOW needs the scaling clarified / reviewed, but think its mostly fine since it is for trash enemies. 1-2-1 does huge burst, so I'm ok with it. After a few forma, I believe sev will be my go-to frame for SP, which is what I believe he was designed for.

 

Consume needs to be fixed, and so does the affinity bug. As of 5/1/21, any kills that occur in the game while in shadow form contribute 0 affinity to Sevagoth, which means 0 ability to focus farm. Not even worth putting a lens onto Sevagoth until this is fixed.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay so I've played him quite a bit and here are my impressions:

  • Reap
    • What's the point of the Shadow being controlled with ADS if he only can hit a single enemy once in its lifespan? I suggest that he activates his damage part once every second (and the Reap&Sow combo as well), so that this is still useful to control him but spamming the ability still gives the best DPS. Would open some duration based builds as well and make the slow version of this ability actually useful.
    • The "Hold to increase speed" function needs to be invertable in options like every single other ability
    • When this ability is out and you become Exalted Shadow, there are 2 Shadows at once. It looks very out of place. How about if we press Exalted Shadow while Reap is out, we go to the Reap's current position?
  • Sow
    • This ability needs to be recastable. It's already pretty weak and this would just make it more convienient.
  • Gloom
    • His best ability is also his subsumed one. I suggest we nerf it when subsumed to 25% at base so that other frames aren't using it better than sevagoth himself...
  • Shadow
    • his claws have too short range. They are shorter than tiniest daggers and using them without range mod feels clunky and dare I say impossible.
    • Embrace
      • It takes AGES to pull someone to Shadow. That's just too much time and I tend to just move shadow to enemies instead - it's way faster....
    • Consume
      • Gets stuck on every single tiny bit of geometry, and also on enemies for some reason. Can it at least pierce through enemies? This doesn't make any sense considering its hitbox...
    • Death's Harvest
      • Very clunky to use. The Reap version of this is a passive debuff around the Shadow but on Exalted Shadow you need to press it over and over? How about we make it work like Gloom?
    • Reunite
      • I think it would be very fun if you could hold the ability to go back to Sevagoth's location. Especially with the Reap synergy I mentioned.

Overall he's fun but I feel like few changes would be appreciated.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)
  • [DE]CoreyOnline locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...