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Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)


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9 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Incorrect...

With the build I am describing there is enough duration, range, str etc. for all of his abilities to be very very effective.

Stats of the build:

105% dur
175% eff
235% rng
220% str (requires ingame setup to achieve 220%)

I subsumed Reap because it is the least useful ability IMO.

His 2 is large enough that it can fill the entire meter in one or two casts, which is very cheap due to high efficiency and 105% duration

Sevagoth is not a frame that needs much/any survivability once you get him rolling. I use augur mod set on my sentinel to help maintain shield gate and arcane eruption to force knockdown (70% slow applied to knockdown makes the enemies out of commission for nearly twice as long since the animation for KD is slowed). Using Dethcube for additional energy drops to supplement this additional CC.

The Shadow form does most of the work in my setup. Mostly using the pull and DR debuff to kill enemies that are extra beefy.

 

The only real weakness is large maps and/or open world zones with this setup but it wasn't designed with those in mind. Nullifiers are also a pain but with everything around them slowed 70% you have time to single them out easier than equinox can (the other frame with a major CC build like this).

I'm not saying this is the best setup for him (we've only been playing with him for a day) but it trivializes a lot of the game and gives excellent team synergy insofar as allies have tons of life steal while you wreck things in shadow form.

I feel like you just said his one was useless and the only use you found for his two was to allow you to use your four after a cast or two.  
That does not sound like a functioning kit at all. 
It sounds like only his 3 and 4th abilities are working, and his 4th isn’t optimal. 

Edited by (PSN)Tazzilla88
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13 minutes ago, (PSN)Tazzilla88 said:

I feel like you just said his one was useless and the only use you found for his two was to allow you to use your four after a cast or two.  
That does not sound like a functioning kit at all. 
It sounds like only his 3 and 4th abilities are working, and his 4th isn’t optimal. 

Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect.

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PS4. 2 bugs

First; Sevagoth's kit has a weird issue when you use his 4. If you are holding R1 during the entire animation, Shadow spawns and R1's button press becomes functionally held until R1 is repressed, however the HUD displays like R1 isn't pressed. This results in what should be melee forcing 3, jumping forcing 1, dodge/slide forcing operator, etc. This becomes more of an issue with increased casting speed.

Second; equipped ephemera on Shadow. At least in the arsenal, the color only changes when you use the "Copy Main Colors" function. After which, ephemera colors become permanently locked to Sevagoth/Shadow's default energy colors.

 

No footage, both are 100% consistent on my end.

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42 minutes ago, Lycceto said:

Power Spike (the Naramon Operator skill that makes the combo counter drop 20/15/10/5 at a time instead of all the way) isn't applying while using Sevagoth's Shadow. Which sucks. 

Does the shadow benefit from the combo meter?

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Got Seva cooking :D Been quite hype for him and am looking forward to whining loudly when he inevitably doesn't suit my exact tastes.

21 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect.

tbh trying to debate in this forum tends not to work; in my experience it's better to just state the facts and your impressions (which, you did) for DE to note and let other people say what they will

ftr i am fully expecting the first few days of this thread to be 99% complaining as per standard protocol

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22 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect.

Oh so you have a use for Sevagoth’s first ability? And you found a value in his second ability besides as a primer (which gloom already does) for Sevagoth’s shadow?

and I get it love DE too and I respect the work they do. I understand they want their player base to be happy. Which is why I feel it is important to help DE make the best frame they can when they ask us for feedback. If you don’t find use in an ability rather than defending it, you should list out its issues and possible solutions. Of course you can always subsume but it shouldn’t be necessary. I think we should all be able to agree that Sevagoth’s first ability does not function well at high levels. I think we should all be able to agree that in and of itself (not as a battery because gloom manages to be a battery and lull manages to be a battery while also being good abilities) sow should be a good ability without having to be a battery to be good. And that when his first 3 abilities are used together it should be standalone good and elevated to greatness by his fourth. That’s a good kit.

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44 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Incorrect...

With the build I am describing there is enough duration, range, str etc. for all of his abilities to be very very effective.

Stats of the build:

105% dur
175% eff
235% rng
220% str (requires ingame setup to achieve 220%)

I subsumed Reap because it is the least useful ability IMO.

His 2 is large enough that it can fill the entire meter in one or two casts, which is very cheap due to high efficiency and 105% duration

Sevagoth is not a frame that needs much/any survivability once you get him rolling. I use augur mod set on my sentinel to help maintain shield gate and arcane eruption to force knockdown (70% slow applied to knockdown makes the enemies out of commission for nearly twice as long since the animation for KD is slowed). Using Dethcube for additional energy drops to supplement this additional CC.

The Shadow form does most of the work in my setup. Mostly using the pull and DR debuff to kill enemies that are extra beefy.

 

The only real weakness is large maps and/or open world zones with this setup but it wasn't designed with those in mind. Nullifiers are also a pain but with everything around them slowed 70% you have time to single them out easier than equinox can (the other frame with a major CC build like this).

I'm not saying this is the best setup for him (we've only been playing with him for a day) but it trivializes a lot of the game and gives excellent team synergy insofar as allies have tons of life steal while you wreck things in shadow form.

I'm on track to have very similar stats once I have enough forma in place to swap intensify to umbral intensify and I can say that this is how Sevagoth feels for me. Brief Respite also feels really good when paired with the augur set since it means I almost always have some shields and shield gating before my health pool (I do have an aura forma on him to swap to Corrosive Projection though, if needed). Question: when you drop Reap for another ability with Helminth, does it overwrite the shadow's first ability too? Not sure what would be good for him but I agree that Reap is definitely the ability to drop (which, after playing with him more today, I think could use a buff to its damage for sure). His Sow, his second ability, is integral to his kit overall to use his Shadow and Gloom is really good even if this guy doesn't see it to be.

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1 minute ago, MrFrog9 said:

Got Seva cooking :D Been quite hype for him and am looking forward to whining loudly when he inevitably doesn't suit my exact tastes.

tbh trying to debate in this forum tends not to work; in my experience it's better to just state the facts and your impressions (which, you did) for DE to note and let other people say what they will

ftr i am fully expecting the first few days of this thread to be 99% complaining as per standard protocol

I agree.

What I described is what I've found to be a useful build thus far. I haven't really had many issues with his kit.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Tazzilla88 said:

Oh so you have a use for Sevagoth’s first ability? And you found a value in his second ability besides as a primer (which gloom already does) for Sevagoth’s shadow?

and I get it love DE too and I respect the work they do. I understand they want their player base to be happy. Which is why I feel it is important to help DE make the best frame they can when they ask us for feedback. If you don’t find use in an ability rather than defending it, you should list out its issues and possible solutions. Of course you can always subsume but it shouldn’t be necessary. I think we should all be able to agree that Sevagoth’s first ability does not function well at high levels. I think we should all be able to agree that in and of itself (not as a battery because gloom manages to be a battery and lull manages to be a battery while also being good abilities) sow should be a good ability without having to be a battery to be good. And that when his first 3 abilities are used together it should be standalone good and elevated to greatness by his fourth. That’s a good kit.

Ashley Olsen Reaction GIF by Filmeditor

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As cool as Sevagoth's shadow is, ultimately it's just another meh exalted weapon. Once again we cross the path of Normal weapons being better than exalted weapons. I personally think it's about time exalted weapons in general get some sort of touch up, because this trend of exalted weapons not being as strong as normal weapons just isnt working. It's why I dont use Wukong since his stick got destroyed. You're better off putting a helminth ability over the 4th ability. 

Edited by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario
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I presented Sevagoth to my friend.

There is no Orokin Catalyst in the present Sevagoth?

Are there any gifts provided to platinum buyers after completing the quest? (Railjack skin, statue, prex.. etc)

Also he doesn't take the gifts these things.

Edited by (PSN)gichanest
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Sevagoth is a lot of fun, but he has the same problems that Xaku had upon release - namely, way too high of an energy drain for his channeled ability. My suggestion would be to make it a duration-based ability, it's just a bit too punishing on a frame where you're already expected to be casting Reap and Sow a lot.

The Shadow is interesting, but again the balance of energy economy seems too punishing when you want to be casting a lot. The abilities have great synergy and are a lot of fun to use, but it feels too limiting with the energy pool. Upping the energy pool might go a long way for build diversity, because right now it feels like to get any mileage, I have to use Primed Flow/Fleeting/Streamline. Having that extra bit of wiggle room could help prevent the Shadow being locked into a one-build pony.

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EXALTED SHADOW needs more work:

a) camera angle gets messy when in tight spots, under stairs or in doorways,

b) animation delays or animations of Shadow's abilities are too long, resulting in being stuck in an animation more often then not when trying to cast the next,

c) Consume lunges way too much forward, making it extremely frustrating to use. By the time you get back to the enemy cluster you gathered with Embrace, you will be low HP again (especially in Steel path)!

SEVAGOTH:

d) how is Sevagoth's passive supposed to work again? I can revive myself by simply standing as Exalted Shadow next to enemies, not even damaging them.

e) Reap's animation often covers almost all my screen, if I sprint forward when casting, because it's so slow moving. Either make it smaller or faster.

f) Visuals of Gloom are way to intrusive and over the top. Some color schemes suffer from this more than others, however it needs to be toned down, to not have a constant violent smoke in front, which makes it even harder to see what's happening in a visually saturated game.

I saw some comments about Gloom being to energy hungry, but it's easy manageable with mods like Rage or Hunter Adrenaline.

 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Tazzilla88 said:

Oh so you have a use for Sevagoth’s first ability? And you found a value in his second ability besides as a primer (which gloom already does) for Sevagoth’s shadow?

and I get it love DE too and I respect the work they do. I understand they want their player base to be happy. Which is why I feel it is important to help DE make the best frame they can when they ask us for feedback. If you don’t find use in an ability rather than defending it, you should list out its issues and possible solutions. Of course you can always subsume but it shouldn’t be necessary. I think we should all be able to agree that Sevagoth’s first ability does not function well at high levels. I think we should all be able to agree that in and of itself (not as a battery because gloom manages to be a battery and lull manages to be a battery while also being good abilities) sow should be a good ability without having to be a battery to be good. And that when his first 3 abilities are used together it should be standalone good and elevated to greatness by his fourth. That’s a good kit.

I agree wholeheartedly with what Tazzilla said,I find no issues with his constructive feedback. He has a sound argument and it sounds very constructive if you have to replace abilities to make his kit work. His kit isn’t working. You’re making up for his lack. And when two abilities isn’t working it doesn’t sound like a good kit to me. I believe we all need to let DE know when and where there are problems in this game so they can improve the quality of this game. Because that’s all we’re here to do improve this game. I love this game. I haven’t been playing for 4 years because I don’t love the game. It’s not complaining to complain it’s out of sheer love. I want everyone to be able to enjoy the gameplay. End game players and casuals. 

Edited by (PSN)Ali-Bomboclaat
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Sevagoth's Shadow doesn't have melee animations a lot of the times I've played him. Also Is his shadow not suppose to have dual energy colors after forma?

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1 hour ago, ThatsSoWitty said:

I'm on track to have very similar stats once I have enough forma in place to swap intensify to umbral intensify and I can say that this is how Sevagoth feels for me. Brief Respite also feels really good when paired with the augur set since it means I almost always have some shields and shield gating before my health pool (I do have an aura forma on him to swap to Corrosive Projection though, if needed). Question: when you drop Reap for another ability with Helminth, does it overwrite the shadow's first ability too? Not sure what would be good for him but I agree that Reap is definitely the ability to drop (which, after playing with him more today, I think could use a buff to its damage for sure). His Sow, his second ability, is integral to his kit overall to use his Shadow and Gloom is really good even if this guy doesn't see it to be.

Subsuming abilities on Sevagoth does not influence the ability pool of his shadow. I subsumed Reap and still primarily use the shadow's 1 to pull enemies into melee range.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Tazzilla88 said:

I’ll take that as a no. 😝

Take it however you'd like. Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect and your assessment of my argument is also incorrect. 

As another person said, this is not a great place to argue build efficacy. It is for giving feedback. My post was intended to give positive feedback to the gameplay I've enjoyed thus far, and a rough look at the type of build I'm using so others can try it out if desired.

 

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5 hours ago, ThatsSoWitty said:

I should clarify by "videos of his damage" I meant there is a video of Brozime surviving with Sevagoth just fine. Steel Path is a horrendous benchmark because it isn't probable or applicable for most of Warframe's player base or gameplay but if you find the need to use it to evaluate your builds, there is enough content to show that he is viable above and beyond anything on the starchart. Level 80 enemies also exceed what is available on most of the starchart and is where arbitrations start off - I would feel comfortable bringing him into arbitrations with just an aura forma and I fully expect him to function great on Steel Path (which suffers from so many issues stemming from rewards and respect of time and difficulty in relationship to the rewards, it isn't something I find any value in since the nerf with Deimos Arcana). 

Gloom is his form of survivability and if you think he is too reliant on it, there are plenty of options from Helminth at our disposal that you can replace Sow or his other abilities to your liking with. You could run something like Dispensary if you don't want to run Fleeting Expertise or Well of Life to give him more healing or even Warcry for more armor and attack speed. Having one mod out of eight being suggested hardly hurts build diversity when there are plenty of frames that require you to run every mod that raises a stat to maximize it (think Nova and duration, Xaku and range, etc.).

I honestly do feel like the issue for most people is how they are building him and they confuse what they think of as lackluster abilities or over reliance on Gloom for actually needing to adjust their builds and playstyles. I wouldn't be opposed to them buffing his survivability across the board but he's nowhere near bad, useless, or in need of any real ability changes at this time.

 

Just a side note, that brozime video is about as Basic-B as it gets with building Sevagoth. Personally I think survivability mods for both the frame and the shadow are less important than with other frames.

1: Sevagoth's recovery passive is pretty useful
2: The shadow returns to Sevagoth on death instead of counting as an actual death, and the meter is not reduced when this happens so you can refill quickly
3: Unless you are dismissing the shadow altogether Sevagoth is able to be built as a support for the shadow which doesn't require much actual frame use aside from generating shadow meter and energy

 

I completely agree with your post, by the way. Just wanted to tag this onto the brozime video thing because I was very unimpressed with his build.

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16 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Take it however you'd like. Your interpretation of what I said is incorrect and your assessment of my argument is also incorrect. 

As another person said, this is not a great place to argue build efficacy. It is for giving feedback. My post was intended to give positive feedback to the gameplay I've enjoyed thus far, and a rough look at the type of build I'm using so others can try it out if desired.

 

However here would certainly be the place to discuss the efficacy of abilities no? 
which means not just positive feedback but feedback as a whole even on the abilities you think need to be subsumed. Sevagoth is not helped when you don’t think an ability is very good but say nothing about it in order to make the frame look like it’s in a place other than what reality dictates. It’s almost like you think I’m critiquing how well you can build. And I’m not. I’m critiquing that fact that a person who doesn’t want to criticize a frame got rid of one ability and does not find value in the debuff. To which I would agree and say how do we make those abilities better.

For the record my build has

116% duration

170 % efficiency

175% range

and 195% power strength

I have a tanky build with 

95% duration

130% efficency

145% range

and 219% power strength 

And a full build for the shadow. 
and a full build for the claws. I have played with him. I have subsumed his first ability for breach surge and made it kind of work too. But that doesn’t mean the kit is where it is supposed to be. 

having Sevagoth be built in support of the shadow and that’s it is not a good kit and does not promote build diversity. And I can’t for the life of me understand why you are against build diversity in this instance. Or at least against improving his first two abilities so that he can support his shadow or be played as an actual warframe. 

Edited by (PSN)Tazzilla88
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Sevagoths passive can be more a handicap than a skill. If I need to free / revive a hostage on a timer I really would wish to be able to just use up one of my revives and be back in the game. Don’t remember if Inaros also is barred from regular reviving when he is using his version of the tombstone, but both should get to choose instant revive as an option.

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As for me, my way to test new warframe's capabilities is to throw him right to steel path survival (draco, to be precise) at rank zero with basic set of mods, and level it up to rank 20 (with mission bonus it will be rank 30). If warframe survives the challenge, i can consider it a strong and useful one. Reworked Zephyr survived that, Wukong did as well. Khora made it with several deaths, but she did. Sevagoth, on the other side - failed completely.

He has almost no survivability - no high armor/health stats, nor abilities to compensate that, such as invisibility, or damage reduction. All he has right now is his third ability that gives him CC and lifesteal, but that's it. And even his third's energy consumption is too high to be active at all times. When you out of energy - you will be knocked out almost instantly. His first and second, as for me - almost useless. You can deal some damage with them, but thats not nearly enough to match with high level enemies on steel path.

Passive suffers the same problem as one of Inaros - on high level enemies you won't be able to make enough kills before timer runs out, which automatically makes it useless as well.

Good warframe consists of four main qualities+ two optional. First four is Damage, Tank, CC and Nuke. Second two are Invisibility and Healing. There are some warframes that qualifies in 5 out of 6 (Loki / Wukong). There are many warframes that has all four main qualities (Reworked Zephyr / Gara). Sevagoth roughly has only one. But instead he has his shiny exalted ult! But as any exalted ultimates right now - it is also useless. Shadow just doesn't have enough damage dealing potential to be effective in high level content. Just as ALL other exalted weaponry. Relying on shadow in high level survival is pointless - or you will run out of life support (and you have no damage to replenish it by killing enemies), or you will be simply torn to shreds by incoming damage.

Here some of my vision on how to make this warframe better:

1) Get rid of the Exalted Shadow. Buff his second to the point it can be considered good CC/Nuke ult. Place it instead of shadow.

2) In free second slot place some invisibility skill. Maybe with some additional CC/Damage Reduction.

3) Buff his stats, mainly health/armor and energy pool.

4) Repurpose Well of Souls to buff his stats proportionally to it's level. And also make it a fuel for new ultimate - Higher the meter, higher the effects of the ultimate, but it will consume Well of Souls meter along with energy bar.

5 )Optionally, replace his third with something like Vauban's vortex (or Black Hole from the original concept) with added lifesteal.

In conclusion, Sevagoth right now is rather useless generic frame with almost no applications in actual game, and can only be used as a mastery rank xp source and food for helminth. And i look forward to it's rework.

 

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10 minutes ago, Alukard661 said:

As for me, my way to test new warframe's capabilities is to throw him right to steel path survival (draco, to be precise) at rank zero with basic set of mods, and level it up to rank 20 (with mission bonus it will be rank 30). If warframe survives the challenge, i can consider it a strong and useful one. Reworked Zephyr survived that, Wukong did as well. Khora made it with several deaths, but she did. Sevagoth, on the other side - failed completely.

He has almost no survivability - no high armor/health stats, nor abilities to compensate that, such as invisibility, or damage reduction. All he has right now is his third ability that gives him CC and lifesteal, but that's it. And even his third's energy consumption is too high to be active at all times. When you out of energy - you will be knocked out almost instantly. His first and second, as for me - almost useless. You can deal some damage with them, but thats not nearly enough to match with high level enemies on steel path.

Passive suffers the same problem as one of Inaros - on high level enemies you won't be able to make enough kills before timer runs out, which automatically makes it useless as well.

Good warframe consists of four main qualities+ two optional. First four is Damage, Tank, CC and Nuke. Second two are Invisibility and Healing. There are some warframes that qualifies in 5 out of 6 (Loki / Wukong). There are many warframes that has all four main qualities (Reworked Zephyr / Gara). Sevagoth roughly has only one. But instead he has his shiny exalted ult! But as any exalted ultimates right now - it is also useless. Shadow just doesn't have enough damage dealing potential to be effective in high level content. Just as ALL other exalted weaponry. Relying on shadow in high level survival is pointless - or you will run out of life support (and you have no damage to replenish it by killing enemies), or you will be simply torn to shreds by incoming damage.

Here some of my vision on how to make this warframe better:

1) Get rid of the Exalted Shadow. Buff his second to the point it can be considered good CC/Nuke ult. Place it instead of shadow.

2) In free second slot place some invisibility skill. Maybe with some additional CC/Damage Reduction.

3) Buff his stats, mainly health/armor and energy pool.

4) Repurpose Well of Souls to buff his stats proportionally to it's level. And also make it a fuel for new ultimate - Higher the meter, higher the effects of the ultimate, but it will consume Well of Souls meter along with energy bar.

5 )Optionally, replace his third with something like Vauban's vortex (or Black Hole from the original concept) with added lifesteal.

In conclusion, Sevagoth right now is rather useless generic frame with almost no applications in actual game, and can only be used as a mastery rank xp source and food for helminth. And i look forward to it's rework.

 

I find that dashing into a corner when you die and having enemies around allows you to revive like 50% of the time against steel path grineer. But that’s only solo. If enemies are pathing to other players those players must revive you. So it’s a cool mechanic just wish it was controllable even if that requires more souls 
 

 

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Opening notes:

Amazing Frame. Amazing theme. Insane visuals and sound design. Reaping power and harvesting souls.

However some of his abilities lack incentive and depth.

(yes I have all the forma and potatoes and umbral forma etc, arcanes in him)

 

My ideas for changes to Sevagoth' kit.

Sevagoth

Reap 

This ability is fine. My only wish is for the souls you collect on kills, visually travel to you in some swirly sevagtoh fasion. Think small stretched out ghostly entities you drag ouf of their body and into sevagoth.

Sow 

Add an armor reduction debuff.

Gloom

Keep as is.

 

Shadow (lacks incentive)

Embrace

Great, no comments.

Consume

Make it able to be stopped on command. Travelling too long is annoying at times.

Introduce synergy with hitting enemies affected by Deaths Harvest. For example give it massive damage buff while hitting enemies affected by death's harest.

Death's Harvest 

This skill lacks identity and incentive. Yes it debuffs enemies making them take more damage for his claws 8or if you transfer back into sevagoth, but that's it.

The potential here is HUGE!

To make this frame really fun give Death's Harvest additional effects.

-Let affected killed enemies' souls siphon into another similar pool to Death Well, giving you a stacking buff to movespeed, attackspeed, damage reduction and range on his exalted claws, creating a deeper incentive to actively use Death's Harvest.

 

Edited by Scroll_of_Wisdom
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1 hour ago, (PSN)Tazzilla88 said:

However here would certainly be the place to discuss the efficacy of abilities no? 
which means not just positive feedback but feedback as a whole even on the abilities you think need to be subsumed. Sevagoth is not helped when you don’t think an ability is very good but say nothing about it in order to make the frame look like it’s in a place other than what reality dictates. It’s almost like you think I’m critiquing how well you can build. And I’m not. I’m critiquing that fact that a person who doesn’t want to criticize a frame got rid of one ability and does not find value in the debuff. To which I would agree and say how do we make those abilities better.

For the record my build has

116% duration

170 % efficiency

175% range

and 195% power strength

I have a tanky build with 

95% duration

130% efficency

145% range

and 219% power strength 

And a full build for the shadow. 
and a full build for the claws. I have played with him. I have subsumed his first ability for breach surge and made it kind of work too. But that doesn’t mean the kit is where it is supposed to be. 

having Sevagoth be built in support of the shadow and that’s it is not a good kit and does not promote build diversity. And I can’t for the life of me understand why you are against build diversity in this instance. Or at least against improving his first two abilities so that he can support his shadow or be played as an actual warframe. 

You seem to be under the false belief that i said reap is bad. I did not. This is what i mean about your remark being incorrect.

Being the one chosen for subsume does not mean it is bad. It is just the most appropriate for my build.

 

All of the abilities work fine and if there are no changes sevagoth would still be a great mid to above average frame.

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  • TheMightyDungeonMaster changed the title to Feedback on Sevagoth (17 forma) - Suggestions [updated]
  • [DE]Danielle changed the title to Update 30: Sevagoth + Epitaph Feedback Megathread (Closed)
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