23 Prime frames in the “Vault” and growing. It’s time to eliminate the “prime vault” un-vaulting rotation and take every prime frame and accessories pack that has been already un-vaulted and re-vaulted and make them always purchasable.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

DE can still do the unvaulted events twice a year or whatever for the relic farm. That said, after the frame/frames accessories are vaulted and then un-vaulted, instead of re-vaulting they should instead be available at all times in the Warframe market place for purchase at all times. The vault rotation is completely arbitrary and crowded for just 2-4 frames a year and the clock is ticking.  The title is a quick and easy fix for everyone to enjoy.  Also all the older OG frames like frost, rhino, loki, mag relics need to be apart of Baros permanent rotation. Please. 
 

Thank you 

[(XBOX)Helverin]

Simplier solution: let the old primes (or at least their relics)  drop from SP bosses. I really dislike the purchase option and Baro is kinda meh. 

[Cerikus]

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

After the frame/frames accessories are vaulted and then un-vaulted, instead of re-vaulting they should instead be available at all times in the Warframe market place for purchase at all times. The vault rotation is completely arbitrary and crowded for just 2-4 frames a year.  The title is a quick and easy fix for everyone to enjoy. Also all the older OG frames like frost, rhino, loki, mag relics need to be apart of Baros permanent rotation. Please. 
 

Thank you 

I generally agree with you.

I do not own any prime accessories, because I never had the money to buy the whole bundle. If all the vaulted frames and relics got their own market tab and everything was purchasable both as a bundle and as a single item, I would be able to afford some items. I know exactly what item I would buy immediately, if that happened.

What could be problem is the reason why vault exists. It creates a false rarity of items. Loki is the best example. There are people who will buy plat just to have him and when the parts cost so much, DE profits.

What I strongly believe in tho, is that this profit made my creating false rarity is far lesser, than what DE could make from people like me, who will probably never be able to buy whole prime access or the accessorry pack, but would buy a single item immediately.

[RazerXPrime]

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Yea, DE should totally let some random player make financial decisions about the game.....

[DrivaMain]

While making some vaulted primes permanent is a good suggestion, it will probably never happen. Artificial scarcity is the only way DE can make money. Besides, farming the plat needed to buy these frames is not that hard if you know what to sell.

I can see DE making prime accessories more available tho.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

DE can still do the unvaulted events twice a year or whatever. That said after the frame/frames accessories are vaulted and then un-vaulted, instead of re-vaulting they should instead be available at all times in the Warframe market place for purchase at all times. The vault rotation is completely arbitrary and crowded for just 2-4 frames a year.  The title is a quick and easy fix for everyone to enjoy.  Also all the older OG frames like frost, rhino, loki, mag relics need to be apart of Baros permanent rotation. Please. 
 

Thank you 

vaulting was a way to reduce the amount of items DE had to work with.
in the void tower era of prime part farming if they did not vault items it would drasticaly reduce the loot tables.
when the void relic era came about it made it easyier for DE to control the prime part farming by having item that had its own loot table an could be changed.

they still have the vaulting an unvaulting as to keep each of the platforms ingame economy going.
its pretty much saying to everyone you can get a free bar of gold.
it would drasitically change the prices of everything, as prime stuff prices would drop but prices of other things would rise in turn.

[Steel_Rook]

I've pretty much given up on Void Relics entirely. It's pretty clear that DE aren't interested in making that into an actually compelling gameplay mechanic. It's a monetisation structure. It's not there for me, a random player looking to have fun. It's there for professional traders to provide a steady supply of parts so me, a random whale will have something to spend my Plat on. The Vaulting system is a means of influencing demand by means of controlling supply, as well as creating a sense of artificial exclusivity. Players can't just work for what they want. They can work for what's available now or buy what isn't from other players. And if something they want becomes available? Well, they have to hurry!

And please don't perpetuate the "oh, but the drop tables would be giant" myth. Not everything has to be an RNG drop table, there are substantially better ways of distributing rewards than random drops. Glorified lootboxes just do a better job of maintaining "engagement." Hell, Orphyx Venom is a good example of that. It's just that making it easier to obtain Prime parts drops their cost on the Market.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I can see DE making prime accessories more available tho.

This would be a really good thing. 
 

 

6 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

ooh so laughing at players who have to wait for years (not months but YEARS) to maybe possibly get a chance at Rhino Prime, Mag Prime or Loki Prime and their accessories (if those players are still even engaged in the game by then) is cool? Noted. 
 

DE can keep their un-vaulting arbitrary schedule or whatever so players can farm the relics 2 times a year. But every frame and accessories that has been un-vaulted once and then re-vaulted should be purchase-able for all time in the market place. Because as time goes on the “vault” is just gonna get more and more bloated. It’s actually more than likely inevitable to make those always purchasable. Now that Chroma is coming out of the vault this feedback needs to be posted. The the un-vaulting process is broken. And will continue to get more broken as time goes on. 
 

That said DE has made it clear on many occasions that the trade market isn’t a factor when making decisions that could might possibly affect it. This decision / idea would not be one of those. 

[Teridax68]

As some other players mentioned, the only real reason for the Prime Vault is artificial scarcity, rather than anything beneficial to the player. While it would absolutely be beneficial for players to be able to farm any Prime any time, it would likely be less desirable to DE themselves, who are likely using the vaulting of frames as a means of driving up sales and platinum purchases.

However, the same cannot be said for accessories, which are only available through purchase, so in that respect at least, I think it would likely be fine to allow players to buy those anytime. There is perhaps the consideration that DE may be using FOMO to allow themselves to sell those accessories at an inflated price, but if that isn't the case, might as well perma-enable accessory packs.

 

[RazerXPrime]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

ooh so laughing at players who have to wait for years (not months but YEARS) to maybe possibly get a chance at Rhino Prime, Mag Prime or Loki Prime and their accessories (if those players are still even engaged in the game by then) is cool? Noted. 

Prime frames are always obtainable. If you want Mag Prime you can go buy it right now. No need to wait for it to be unvaulted. Costs 165 for the set on the market right now.

With regards to the accessoiries then it's a point. Maybe they should be added to baro or something. Although this is not good for DE as cosmetics is what makes them money... so I doubt they will do such a thing.

Like Teridax mentioned it's about creating scarcity and leveraging that to player commitment. If they allow everything to be available at any time then this would not be beneficial for them.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

18 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

If you want Mag Prime you can go buy it right now. No need to wait for it to be unvaulted. Costs 165 for the set on the market right now.

 

18 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

If they allow everything to be available at any time then this would not be beneficial for them.

Razer? Do you see the contradiction here?
 

Then De might as well make the un-vaulted and/or re-vaulted frames and their accessories available at all times then anyway. Relics can still follow their unconventional un-vaulting process with baro or events or whatever. 
 

Forcing players to either play trade-frame or wait-frame sucks already and that isn’t playing Warframe. 

[Bakaguya-sama]

I don't agree. Prime Vault is a good monetization system that balance between creating artificial scarcity and giving the players what we want. The end goal of DE is to make money and have people play the game they made. It's obvious that they can't simply just give players everything we want at once, because then we stop playing and stop paying them money. 

But the problem is that DE seems to hate money. They stand to profit from much quicker and more consistent vault rotations, but they aren't doing it. It's just recycling the stuff they already made. IMO, vaults should only last a month top. This would create a much bigger sense of urgency, to make people FOMO into farming more or paying more. The Mirage/Banshee vault lasted 4 months. That's like an entire generation of Warframe players that have come and gone seeing only 1 vault. That's DE losing a lot of money.  

Meanwhile, I've only played Genshin Impact for 2 months and missed it when Zhongli's banner come out 5 months ago. Now I have another chance to get him, and you can bet that I will spend a lot of money trying to bring Geo Daddy home. Probably as much as I've spent on my entire 2 years playing Warframe (~$200). Kinda puts into perspective how generous DE is relative to other devs. But also shows that faster content rotations is the way, for both better monetization and to give players what they want.   

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

Prime Vault is a good monetization system that balance between creating artificial scarcity and giving the players what we want.

This is the crux of the problem. It’s has not been a good monetizing process to give players what they want, far from it. Mag, Rhino and Loki vaulted for over a year is a perfect example. Their process is completely borked. 

 

2 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

They stand to profit from much quicker and more consistent vault rotations, but they aren't doing it. It's just recycling the stuff they already made. IMO, vaults should only last a month top.

Im sure DE knows this. But completely lack the structure to make that process a reality. So the arbitrary un-vaulting remain broken. And we only see to see 4 out of the 23 prime frames a year. Something drastic has to change. My title fixes that permanently. 

[RazerXPrime]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

 

Razer? Do you see the contradiction here?
 

Then De might as well make the un-vaulted and/or re-vaulted frames and their accessories available at all times then anyway. Relics can still follow their unconventional un-vaulting process with baro or events or whatever. 
 

Forcing players to either play trade-frame or wait-frame sucks already and that isn’t playing Warframe. 

It's not a contradiction. It's basic economics. Scarcity will force people to buy and make them willing to pay for something that they normally would not pay for. Also items in the market are usually traded with plat. And plat is another thing DE makes money off of.

Look at it this way. A movie that's broadcasted on TV has a lot more views than a movie that's sitting at peoples personal blu ray/download storage. The fact that you can see this movie at any time makes it so you don't watch it. When something is limited in availability it will make you act on it. It's just how this works. Sorry mate.

[DrivaMain]

17 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

There is perhaps the consideration that DE may be using FOMO to allow themselves to sell those accessories at an inflated price

The prime vault accessories are 50% cheaper than when they were sold during Prime Access. I don’t think they are selling it at an inflated price. You also get some platinum which is a nice bonus.

[60framespersecond]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

The prime vault accessories are 50% cheaper than when they were sold during Prime Access. I don’t think they are selling it at an inflated price. You also get some platinum which is a nice bonus.

Personally, I think the accessory unvaults are nice value for supporting DE. Compared to PA which is insane IMO, but YMMV.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

It's not a contradiction. It's basic economics. Scarcity will force people to buy and make them willing to pay for something that they normally would not pay for. Also items in the market are usually traded with plat. And plat is another thing DE makes money off of.

Look at it this way. A movie that's broadcasted on TV has a lot more views than a movie that's sitting at peoples personal blu ray/download storage. The fact that you can see this movie at any time makes it so you don't watch it. When something is limited in availability it will make you act on it. It's just how this works. Sorry mate.

Ultimately my point is vaulting and unvaulting and reevaluating is a huge waste of dev time and ultimately broken with the 23 Warframe currently in the inexplicable vault x 3 accessories. Relics can still be scares for those that want it for free. But Prime frames and their accessories once vaulted for a certain amount of time should always be available for purchase wether plat/money (examples: Mag, Loki, Rhino, Volt) 
 

That said to be clear, are you agreeing / defending DEs arbitrary bloated utterly broken vaulting design process? Or are you just explaining what DE thinks their doing with it? Because either way both need massive reform. Both are a mess. You agree with that? no?   Because if your defense is of DEs trade market economy using things to create “scarcity” then DE has made it clear on multiple occasions they do not make decisions based the game economics. I have many examples, been around for awhile but chroma coming out of the vault is a good one. 

[RazerXPrime]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Ultimately my point is vaulting and unvaulting and reevaluating is a huge waste of dev time and ultimately broken with the 23 Warframe currently in the inexplicable vault x 3 accessories. Relics can still be scares for those that want it for free. But Prime frames and their accessories once vaulted for a certain amount of time should always be available for purchase wether plat/money (examples: Mag, Loki, Rhino, Volt) 
 

That said to be clear, are you agreeing / defending DEs arbitrary bloated utterly broken vaulting design process? Or are you just explaining what DE thinks their doing with it? Because either way both need massive reform. Both are a mess. You agree with that? no?   Because if your defense is of DEs trade market economy using things to create “scarcity” then DE has made it clear on multiple occasions they do not make decisions based the game economics. I have many examples, been around for awhile but chroma coming out of the vault is a good one. 

I'm not defending anyone. I'm explaining how it works and why it works. Your opinion is clear, but will be detrimental to DE. Therefore they will not do anything with it is my assumption. I'm not talking about game inside trading economics. That's for the players only. I'm talking about how they make money. I cannot comment on their choices for unvaulting/vaulting and which frame will be available when. Looking at usage stats: https://www.warframe.com/2020stats this does not seem to be the deciding factor. So if we're just sitting here trying to gauge what DE is trying to do with the choices they make then I'm out because that's just a waste of our time. The "why" is clear, but perhaps not to you. And I don't think I can convince you. The "what". Well that's up in the air.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Ultimately my point is vaulting and unvaulting and reevaluating is a huge waste of dev time and ultimately broken with the 23 Warframe currently in the inexplicable vault x 3 accessories. Relics can still be scares for those that want it for free. 

waste of dev time? a 15 min decision by an business analyst (not developer) to decide what gets unvaulted, and little copy and paste of code to define a few relics.  That's hardly huge.

I would think once they release a Prime Access/Accessories pack they could leave it in the market permanently - but then maybe their research shows they get more sales by occasional  hype than by constant  accessibility,

The relics should still get vaulted/unvaulted as is.  Imagine all relics being dropped all over the place - soon you'd be dealing with Turret Velocity drop chances to actually get a relic you wanted.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

(The over-dilution of drop pools, claimed as a reason to vault primes, is not an inevitable problem. The CURRENT way that the drop tables are set up would create that situation, but you could divide up the drop tables across planets or node types, to once again keep drop tables under control. There are enough planets and nodes and game types to make this separation plausible (and you could even go as far as level brackets to break things up even more.) In addition, as mentioned in this thread, we even have the Steel Path boss nodes, that could be used like the current star chart as far as dropping specific frame relics.

So as far as I'm concerned, there is a serious lack of imagination when it comes to dismissing the concept of providing a sustained permanent means of obtaining what are now vaulted frames. The real issues must fall on their marketing department and how they figure it will impact their bottom line. This is not a player-friendly decision making process, but it is likely to be the cause of our current dilemma.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

17 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

but you could divide up the drop tables across planets or node types, to once again keep drop tables under control.

The problem is vaulted frames are forever growing. Next year this time there will be 27-28 prime frames and their accessories in the “vault”. Your idea is an vary temporary solution that will need to be constantly revisited. Their accessories will need to be placed with other frames. Potentially bigger mess. Putting older frames and their accessories in the market for money/plat is a permanent simple solution that won’t need revision. 

[Hobie-wan]

17 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

but you could divide up the drop tables across planets or node types, to once again keep drop tables under control.

This would solve nothing. Prime items are always being added. Also putting drops for anything that isn't cosmetic onto Steel Path is a terrible idea. Some people like the added farms for materials in SP, some may enjoy it for the difficulty. I am not one of them. I have completed some SP for completeness sake, but only a bare minimum to get the node done and get out. It isn't fun at all to me. Honestly most players will never even complete the regular start chart, much less SP.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-04-22 at 10:16 AM, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

15 min decision by an business analyst (not developer) to decide what gets unvaulted

And it’s never worked not at all. There is no rhythm, pattern, justification or reasoning behind what gets unvaulted, when and how long. Just look at the chart below. This is not working as intended. 

Prime frame	Times unvaulted	Last unvaulted	days since unvault (till 22 april 2021)
Mag	3 times	29-Jan-2019	814
Loki	2 times	2-Jul-2019	660
Volt	1 time (also available from Baro occasionally)	2-Jul-2019	660
Nyx	1 time (available from railjack now?)	3-Sep-2019	597
Rhino	2 times	29-Sep-2019	571
Valkyr	1 time (available from railjack now?)	19-Nov-2019	520
Saryn	1 time	19-Nov-2019	520
Ash	1 time	11-Feb-2020	436
Vauban	1 time	11-Feb-2020	436
Oberon	1 time	26-May-2020	331
Nekros	1 time	26-May-2020	331
Frost	4 times,	29-Sep-2020	205
Ember	3 times	29-Sep-2020	205
Nova	2 times	29-Sep-2020	205
Trinity	1 time	29-Sep-2020	205
Banshee	1 time (current)	22-Apr-2021	0
Mirage	1 time (current)

The Vaulting and Un-vaulting  process isn’t working now. Where are we gonna be a year from now? Even more broken and bloated. The clock is ticking. 
 

This idea would put Mag, Frost, Loki, Rhino, Nova, Ember and thier accessories in the market for either $ or plat permanently and so on and so on. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-04-21 at 5:22 AM, (XBOX)Helverin said:

Simplier solution: let the old primes (or at least their relics)  drop from SP bosses. I really dislike the purchase option and Baro is kinda meh. 

As Hobie and I have said above this solves nothing. Vaulted frames are forever growing. Your solution is a vary temporary fix. The problem needs a permanent solution and process moving forward.