Make refining relics worth

[quxier]

This is my data from opening 24 radiant Meso C6:

Quote

Common:
6x Lex barrel
4x Burston bp
6x Baza receiver

Uncommon:
8x forma blueprint

What's the point of refining if I get the same thing from not-refined relics?

 

Suggestions:

- no forma in Uncommon rarity OR make it at least built forma or 2x blueprint

- Radiant refinement should drop only Uncommon & Rare stuffs

- Let us crack multiple relics (e.g. 4) but without repetition (e.g. you cannot get 2x forma blueprint)

Related topic:

 

[Drachnyn]

24 attempts mean nothing, if you want meaningful statistics dont come back before atleast 800 attempts.

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

24 attempts mean nothing, if you want meaningful statistics dont come back before atleast 800 attempts.

I'm playing a game not throwing 6-sided dice.

[CephalonCarnage]

11 minutes ago, quxier said:

I'm playing a game not throwing 6-sided dice

then what does it matter what rewards you get, you play the game, you get enjoyment from that. The rewards - meh, just something that is needed to keep others coming back to play more.

and yes, you are throwing those dice. From variable amounts of damage, to random waves of enemies, its all random. Just like your reward results.

[Zeddypanda]

Silver forma is a pain. Uncommon is usually 10% each, so you brought the chances up for those a lot as you can tell in your own data.

[quxier]

18 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

then what does it matter what rewards you get, you play the game, you get enjoyment from that. The rewards - meh, just something that is needed to keep others coming back to play more.

and yes, you are throwing those dice. From variable amounts of damage, to random waves of enemies, its all random. Just like your reward results.

Don't explain how game is made and how it works. This shouldn't concern us, players (unless it's game about randomness) too much.

We play a game for some amount of time. Game should take that into account. Expecting me to run 800 Void fissures just to prove it is RIDICULOUS.

As with "true" randomness, pseudo randomness has issues. You shouldn't run unrestricted RNG for such content.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Did you radshare or solo? That kinda makes a difference.

[quxier]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Did you radshare or solo? That kinda makes a difference.

Solo

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Solo

Oh, that's tough, no doubt.  I think the probabilities were built with squad play and radshares in mind.

I wouldn't mind a system where solo players got some kind of boost to their efficiency there.  As it stands now, they spend 4x the resources and roughly 4x the time to get similar results, so easing at least one of those factors would be nice.

In the event some such system is ever implemented, I wouldn't expect anything near the efficiency of radshares though. 

[Hobie-wan]

5 hours ago, quxier said:

Solo

That's your problem.

As noted, RNG will still be RNG and refining does shift the weight slightly towards the higher rewards but 24 is an insignificant sample size to make any conclusions.

[bnuy]

The drop rates are up on the wiki, 2% for rare with Intact, 10% for rare with Radiant. Just because you ran solo and got unlucky doesn't mean it's an issue, refining relics is a significant boost to the drop rate, a 400% increase to rare drops. 1/10 chance with rare.

[taiiat]

refining is very much worth it.

it's just dreadfully boring.

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Maggy said:

The drop rates are up on the wiki, 2% for rare with Intact, 10% for rare with Radiant. 400% increase to rare drops. 1/10 chance with rare.

It doesn't matter if increase is 4%, 40% or 400% if it still won't drop in reasonable amount of time.

4 hours ago, Maggy said:

Just because you ran solo and got unlucky doesn't mean it's an issue, refining relics is a significant boost to the drop rate,

In 24 runs I got 0 uncommon (forma blueprint is common thing) and 0 rare stuff.

Where is my "significant" boost?

On 2021-04-25 at 11:43 PM, Hobie-wan said:

That's your problem.

That shouldn't be my problem. At least not that big.

On 2021-04-25 at 11:43 PM, Hobie-wan said:

As noted, RNG will still be RNG and refining does shift the weight slightly towards the higher rewards but 24 is an insignificant sample size to make any conclusions.

RNG may require much more samples and RNG may have some issues.

24 is insignificant when we analyze PRNGs but it's VERY significant when we take players' time (e.g. number of missions).

[bnuy]

8 hours ago, quxier said:

It doesn't matter if increase is 4%, 40% or 400% if it still won't drop in reasonable amount of time.

In 24 runs I got 0 uncommon (forma blueprint is common thing) and 0 rare stuff.

Where is my "significant" boost?

That shouldn't be my problem. At least not that big.

RNG may require much more samples and RNG may have some issues.

24 is insignificant when we analyze PRNGs but it's VERY significant when we take players' time (e.g. number of missions).

I just don't see this as an issue, and I never have. Sorry, but you clearly are on your own in this line of thought. There are issues with relics, but they're not the drop rates, you got unlucky is all. Better luck on your RNG in the future Tenno.

[CerealPlayer]

Refining relics is most definitely "worth" [sic]. Refining a relic from intact to radiant increases the probability of seeing a rare drop from 0.02 to 0.1. That is a massive 400% increase. 

Another way to increase the probability of seeing a rare drop is to run the fissure in a group. That increases the probability of seeing a rare drop to 0.34. That's a 240% increase over "soloing" a radiant- and a massive 3200% increase over running an intact relic solo. 

Another way to see this is in expected runs. Running intact relics solo, the average expected number of void fissures you have to run in order to get a rare is a whopping 50. Running radiant relics in a group of four lowers that number to under 3 runs-a massive reduction, which explains the popularity of "radshare" runs.