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Operators: The improvements the tenno needs


(PSN)Vexx757
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2 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Considering I see Loki's die while invisible, I can confirm they are not the same. AoE damage is AoE damage. One napalm or Infested puddles will one shot your operator later on. Sure, if playing solo, it's not a problem; but if you're trying to balance operator around solo play, I think we have bigger problems. Of course our experiences are different. We likely don't do the same things in the game. 

Most AoE splashs are at most 7 meters, and Napalm and Infested Puddles won't be aimed at you so you have time and space to avoid damage and have clear indicators so if you walk into them, it's your own fault. Unless you're constantly standing next to other, visible players, you're not in danger in 99% of circumstances.

The only real possible exception is on the new Corpus Cruiser, since everything there has AoE for some reason. But that's a more broadly poor design decision.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

@(NSW)Gamer-Steve

I appreciate you replaying so since you put the effort in, so i`ll try to reply to it as much as I can. Also, just a tip, use the spoiler box more to split up your points and make it easy for ppl to read like what I’m doing below.

Movement

 If you look at the second GIF I think that should be the base sprint speed, idm if the jump hight is a hold or a double jump as long as they can jump higher and further. If you`re talking about void energy like the running streeks like in the running GIFs (or like excel`s old super jump ability) then yes since they are made up of the void it makes sense besides for something to be fun it also includes how it looks visually does it not?

Visually the wall run can be like in the tron game in 2010 also the can hang on the wall like warframes can.

Operators need to have knockdown recovery, one they don`t have survivability and like you said it will help the flow of combat and secondly it looks cool to watch.

Fly-kick is something the warframe have but don`t get used despite it being useful but because the operators are not as powerful as warframes it makes sense for them to have it which will be useful in combat, if they were to be able to float it would have to be either 1 or half a sec, any longer and they will be open to attack.

In the edge grab animation on a wf after it gets ready to vault if you press the jump button at the right time it will make you jump higher which rewards timing the better the timing the higher you jump.

The chimera prologue dash mechanic could be used in the plains of duviri as a way for operators to trave or a mechanic that can be used in a game-mode, thinking about they should be able to jump up while they are on a zipline. 

Yes, this is great for them to have the animations form pop but tbh I would rather the combat from DMC or the old GOW.

I was thinking that also they could have their own finisher animation with the melee weapons when enemy’s health gets to at least lowered by half, it least you get the option to either do the finisher or continue to attack them.

 

Void melee weapons

My idea of them using melee is since they have void powers, they could create an image of a weapon they want to use then form the weapon using void energy where they can summon it at will which I strongly think this should be a thing.

Yes your idea of a hilt is a good way to go about it, which also fit with my idea of “create an image of a weapon”, this hilt could help with manifesting it, I do believe their weapons should have their own stances but to decide what weapon you want to use you have to equip a melee stance mod in the hilt.

Your idea about the shield sounds interesting but with my idea of the void melee blocking damage makes this idea not needed.

The only thing I feel operators should dule wield is dule wielding weapons not melee and amps, it`s best to leave that to the wfs.

I`m not opposed to the idea of void melee having an archan slot but with the abilities i`ve given them I don`t think they are necessary to have.
 

I just put the dagger in their just to show what I would like for it to look and that the dagger is one of its signature weapon for Naramon.

Tbh i`m not sure about the angle, just think of it like frosts 2nd ability which will hold enemies up, it only enemies that is hit by the wave but it does ignore los.

I don`t think it would be op since its only if they are attacking them, plus it`s a 60% chance and it will give them an edge in dealing with them. 

You can choose when to use void rage after the gauge is full, since DE said this is going to be a thing I through to add my idea of it.

 

Operator game-modes

I would like if all the syndicates in some sort of way give operator only missions.

Yes I can see that, when I cam up with operation havoc I thought of a dark atmosphere  and to start the mission the team has to run to the fortress in the distance, maybe every hour the faction changes or maybe just make a new game-mode with different factions. On thing I will add is in the mission section in the codex, there are instructions on how to play and what to do (since the old raids never explained anything).

The best thing about this is not everyone can play it, it`s a milestone where you have to get access to the focus schools and to complete most of the nodes within the schools and as you can see all the focus schools have a use in each mission so everyone get a chance to be useful. This is an example of making mission that evolve around the character you`re using which is something DE need to do. Also do you have any idea of what rewards can drop in this gamemode?

Even through I would like the other syndicates to offer operator missions, I would also like a syndicate exclusive to operators, offering operator only missions that offer focus with medallions that you have to search for, having operator only rewards from armour pieces to weapons, that would be cool.

It will offer a mission and based on the description of the mission you have to decide which focus school you will have to use, if you chose the right focus school you will get bonus rewards.

 

Conclave

When it comes to conclave I think only operators should be used their, it will address most of the issues with it.

I have come up with some game-modes for operators in conclave:

Spoiler

·        You play as the operator and you are with other operators and you have to search for six parts for your necromech, once you find them you have to repair it, get in it and annihilate the operators.

·       At the start operators can`t use any weapons or any focus school abilities except the way-bound passives.

·       Void dash is disabled.

·       When searching for the necromech parts it makes a sound when you’re near them.

·       At this time, you can also find three pickups in hidden areas where you can activate it from your gear wheel. One gives you the ability to void dash for 20 seconds, one makes you able to cast a decoy to where the person using the necromech can`t see the difference and a pickup that gives the necromech an explosive weapon for them to use for 20 seconds.

·       The parts are colour coded (red, orange, yellow, blue, green and purple)

·       You can pick up a necromech part of a colour you have picked up before.

·        K-drive racing that is similar to sega allstars racing or mario karts

 

 

Here is another game-mode I came up with for conclave where you play as the operator and you are with other operators and you have to search for six parts for your necromech, once you find them you have to repair it, get in it and annihilate the operators tell me what you think.

Let me explain how this works:

Spoiler

·       At the start operators can`t use any weapons or any focus school abilities except the way-bound passives.

·       Void dash is disabled.

·       When searching for the necromech parts it makes a sound when you’re near them.

·       At this time, you can also find three pickups in hidden areas where you can activate it from your gear wheel. One gives you the ability to void dash for 20 seconds, one makes you able to cast a decoy to where the person using the necromech can`t see the difference and a pickup that gives the necromech an explosive weapon for them to use for 20 seconds.

·       The parts are colour coded (red, orange, yellow, blue, green and purple)

·       You can pick up a necromech part of a colour you have picked up before.

·       You can’t use the mini map to find the parts however if you go near a necromech part you don`t need, it will be marked on the mini map for other players to find.

·       To repair it you use the mining tool.

·       If a person repairs and gets into the necromech everyone else that doesn’t find their parts yet will have a 20% movement speed increase for 10 seconds and the necromech parts will be shown on the mini map.

·       At this time operators will have their amps and focus school abilities unlocked to defend themselves form the necromechs.

·       Also at this point, operators can now attack each other with amps and void abilities. Operators won`t get downed but instead get knocked down with a slow knockdown recovery.

·       You have to destroy the necromech first then take out the operators and the operator that is taken out is out of the game and the one that`s left standing is the winner.

 

Just to add from what we saw from tennocon I have the operators have some involvement with some new abilities or mechanics, sorry it took so long but here it is.

 

@Antroz0n

I saw your post about operators wearing syandanas and I totally agree, since you like operators take a look at this post and tell me what you think.

Edited by (PSN)Vexx757
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I think this is very intriguing, and I agree with the majority of your ideas. Having a special Operator-only mission with some rewards like for example: About 2,000-10,000 endo, bonus focus, and/or some Lenses would make Operator more useful for things like that. I do agree that the combat is more lacking than the Warframes, and I hope that get's changed eventually too. The Void melee weapons in an interesting idea, and as cool as that would be, I personally don't think an angsty kid could be responsible with a sword. (Unless it's very light, and they know how to use one because of operating Warframes). With Conclave, I agree because I've only been in it once, and since I was so confused at what to do I kept dying and had to abort. Generally, I do agree with almost everything, and I think there should be changes. (I hope you appreciate me showing my perspective on your suggestions, and that some of your ideas actually happen).

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I had an idea a while back where Operator amps operate on a completely different damage model to all other weapons. Rather then being damage point based as now, they are flat percentage based. 
Rather then hitting an enemy for... 100 points of Void damage (for example) and that gets boosted by some obscene 300% booster by Arcanes and Focus upgrades, the amp instead does 10% flat damage at base and these upgrades enhance it by small amounts; adding single digit % to that base damage. So how it would work is that the weapon would with one hit shave off 10% of an enemy's health regardless of how much health they have or what level they are. Of course there would be other modifiers like weak points, armor, resistances and likely a set lowest possible damage (so 100 points or 10%, whichever is larger). But the concept is that an Operator's Amp does not care if the enemy is level 30 or level 300. 
The reasoning behind this being that Amps don't have the benefit and/or curse of the base modding system. Instead relying solely on components, Arcanes and Focus upgrades to progress up in power. It would also give Operators maybe some clearer advantage in certain situations or against certain enemies and maybe even giving them some competitive edge compared against frames for players who want to main in Operators. 

Just a silly idea I had. Probably a bit too out left-field to be reasonable, but oh well. 

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The perfect operator topic doesn't exi-....

Dude that's some high quality work.

I just want to reinforce my idea to mix a little bit of Tenshin New War gameplay because every time i imagined operator Melee gameplay it was exactly like Tenshin's gameplay.

About the trench Coat and Hood thing, i know what u talking broh, i feel you, you want to Assassin's Creed the hell out of operators and i couldn't agree more, here's an awesome idea, let them have parazon too, done, now we have Warframe's Creed, Tenno's Creed lol.

Your ideas are amazing, i really hope that they read this.

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Here's my thoughts on each of the points you bring up. Keep in mind that everything assumes the Operators are kept their current size and aren't sized up to adult size. Also, with how the post is written, I'm going to assume that English isn't your first language. So if I mistake anything, I'm going to automatically assume language barrier issues.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Sprint Speed

YES. I know they're just kids, but they're SO SLOOOOOOW. A base damage buff is for sure needed.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Jump Height

This is the first point where I get what you're saying, but kinda disagree. Having a slight increase to jump height or jump length would be nice, but Void Dash already takes care of both of those. I have a better option, but I'll get into it when I talk about Focus Schools.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Wall Run

Eh. Like, it'd be neat to get one instance of a Wall Jump or Wall Run, but I think that free running and parkour should stay with the Warframes. Assuming we don't get something like the Adult Operator from the old Duviri Paradox trailer.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Dodging/knockdown Recovery

This is for sure something we do actually need on Operators. A better way to dodge than just the silly slide. Because you can't go intangible if you're out of energy.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Fly Kick/Slide Kick

That would be a funny thing to see, but it makes sense that the kids wouldn't be able to do that without making it a specific Focus Tree perk. Just imagine the levels of muscle atrophy they must have gone through during their second dream.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Edge Grab

Making already existing maneuvers more reliable is always a good thing.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Chimera Prologue Dash

If this was a part of a specific mission type somewhere into The New War Arc, I would be 100% down for it. But I don't know if they'd go through the trouble of putting it in already existing tilesets without another massive rework. And we just had one not too long ago.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Enemy Vaulting

This is another move I think should stick to the Warframes unless it's a tree perk. It feels silly to expect these short kids to be able to vault over the fully grown adults without some kind of Void trick.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Running on ziplines

Again, making existing things more reliable is always a good idea.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Focus System Rework

In general, I think this whole system could do with a change, but I think mine would be different than yours:

  • Madurai: Phoenix Talons/Phoenix Spirit & Inner Gaze/Eternal Gaze should be innate to every Operator|Void Radiance/Void Strike, Flame Blast/Rising Blast, & Blazing Dash/Meteoric Dash can stay as Tree-Exclusive.
  • Vazarin: Mending Unity/Mending Soul & Enduring Tides/Rejuvenating Tides should be innate to every Operator|Void Regen/Void Aegis, Protective Dash/Sonic Dash, & Guardian Shell/Guardian Blast can stay as Tree-Exclusive.
  • Naramon: Affinity Spike/Power Spike & Mind Step/Mind Sprint should be innate to every Operator|Void Stalker/Void Hunter, Surging Dash/Executing Dash, & Disorienting Blast/Disarming Blast can stay as Tree-Exclusive.
  • Unairu: Void Spines/Stone Skin & Basilisk Scales/Basilisk Gaze should be innate to every Operator|Void Shadow/Void Chrysalis, Sundering Dash/Crippling Dash, Magnetic Blast/Unairu Wisp can stay as Tree-Exclusive.
  • Zenurik: Energy Pulse/Inner Might, Void Siphon/Void Flow, & Energizing Dash (simply for QoL) should be innate to every Operator|Lightning Dash, Void Static/Void Singularity, & Temporal Blast/Voltaic Blast can stay as Tree-Exclusive.

In general, everything I say should be innate to Operators would have its own menu where you can dump Focus/Void traces/whatever resource to level up the stats. Then everything else acts the same as it does right now. And the Tree-Exclusive nodes could easily be translated into Abilities on the "1", "2", "3", and "4" keys. It'd be nice to have the power to toggle these energy-hogging effects instead of having to be mindful of them.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

One thing I also want to add is that the nodes are no longer connected, you can now choose the abilities you want active and what abilities you want turned off.

This too. Like, advanced stuff stuff is locked behind simpler stuff, but after the unlock there's no connection BS. That, or just get rid of the power points system and make it a strict "on-off" system that doesn't rely on "having enough points".

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Void Melee Weapons

I love the idea of giving the Operators more versatility than they have at the moment, and it makes lore sense that they would start picking up on their Warframes' combat abilities over time. However, I don't think they should have access to all weapon types. Rather, sticking to Daggers, Dual Daggers, Machetes, and Staffs would be fine, because you can make "Hammers" in the Machete class (Zaws prove that). Again, this goes back to the physical limitations of the fleshy organic body that doesn't have some form of techno-organic enhancements done to it. I highly doubt an Operator could even pick up some of these weapons, let alone swing them around. Many of them (especially the heavier weapon types) are specifically made with augmented beings like Warframes in mind. But you have more to say, so I'll look at it.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Traits of melee weapon:

  • The melee weapons that operators use are made up of void energy that they can summon from within themselves (visually like excal's 4th ability).
  • Since it`s pure void energy, they will use the operator's energy colour.
  • Void weapons would work the same way as normal melee weapons. (option)
  • They could also use existing stance mods.
  • Blocking incoming damage gives operators 90% damage reduction for survivability's sake.
  • Void damage will be included with the other stats.
  • When attacking an enemy, any bullets that stray near the enemy your attacking will reflect the damage back at the enemy that fired them. (the opposite to bullet attractor)
  • Using void weapons will use the same button as the one using void blast. To use void blast, you have to hold it instead of a press.
  • If the operators have their void melee weapon equipped while transferring into the warframe, the operator will have it equipped still when transferring out.
  • Operator can only preform melee finishers while in void mode.
  • Since this does mostly void damage, they are highly effective against sentient enemies.

Interesting ideas here, for sure. Lemme tackle them one at a time.

  • If they visually look like Exalted Weapon summoning, then how would it be any different from Excal's Exalted Blade or Wukong's Iron Staff? At that point, you might as well just replace them with the Void Beam from pre-War Within Operators.
  • That's a nice aesthetic choice.
  • EEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHH.....I think they should work in their own unique way. If they function like normal Melee...then what's the point? Similarly, if they use existing Stances, then what's the point? Plus, it'd be literally impossible for the Operators to pull off a lot of the flippy-spinny-crap that the Warframes do.
  • The survivability option is good, if you're in a situation where you're out of Void Mode energy. But it should probably take the form of a shield instead of using the weapon to reflect bullets Jedi-style.
  • If the weapons are made of the same stuff that gets shot out of an Amp, then I think they should be either pure Void Energy (the easy option) or "Void Variants" of the IPS stats that have similar proc effects as normal IPS but do Void-based Damage instead.
  • Exiting a Warframe to pull a Jedi Blaster Reflect would be bad@, ngl. Though the devs might just add that to the Warframes themselves. Heck, I think it's already a thing, in some way.
  • I think Void Melee should be treated like Amps, as a separate weapon you have to equip. If it's just an "E" press, we once again stray too close to the Warframes.
  • That would be cool, but again, separate weapon issue.
  • Finishers in Void Mode makes some kinda sense I think.
  • While that makes sense, I don't think an Operator (even one fully buffed by every Way-Bound Passive and using all the Unairu defense stats) could fight against a Sentient. That was kinda the literal point of the Warframes coming into existence, after all.
On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

You can use any melee weapon with the operators, however, using a certain weapon with certain trees will give bonuses for the weapon and the operator.

Okay. I like the idea. Whatcha got?

Quote

Auto proceeds to read the ideas and becomes very annoyed

Okay, okay, I've heard enough.

So, FUNCTIONALLY, you want Operators to be better than Warframes in every single way.

https://dailylolpics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Boi.jpg

I'm all for giving the Operators more usability. I'm all for making them viable to run in a mission. But what you've proposed is basically a player character for an entirely new game. If the Operators can act exactly like - or even better than the Warframes, then what's even the point of having the Warframes? At this point, you're describing a sequel game, not an extension to the currently existing game. Though talks of a sequel could go on forever and likely require their own thread.

I'm not sure if I even want to continue reading, but I will for the sake of a complete discussion.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Operator Game-Modes

Imo this is something that needs to happen, we have operators but we don`t have much that`s exclusive to them.

Since the operators are here, we need some operator only game-modes that can make use of their movement and abilities.

I'm barely even into this section and already I think this is the only statement I agree with.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

New game-mode: Operation Havoc

Here is a game-mode I came up with back in 2018 where it`s a mission with eight objectives and each of them evolves around the focus school which means each focus school are useful in each mission.

This is a mission where you use operators that can benefit from warframe abilities however you can only use operators and the only thing your chosen warframe can do in the mission is sprint can cast abilities that can affect operators.

Effective warframes:

Volt - 2nd 3rd

Wisp - 1st

Harrow - 2nd 3rd 4th

These warframes provide useful buffs or abilities that operators can use while in the mission from ranging from damage to survivability.

Oh no...here we go again...

If you're going to make the Warframe abilities a factor, limit it to the Helminth Subsume Abilities. Because if you start using every single ability, it again leads to my point about removing Warframes in favor of Operators.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Inspiration: Sonic the hedgehog 2006, resident evil, Dadefuye (wf youtuber), law of retribution (warframe)

Main objective: The enemy is experimenting on a new infected creature to make it stronger and to control it. They plan to mass produce it and unleash it on anyone that opposes them. You and the team must infiltrate the enemy strong hole and neutralise the creature.

Need to know:

·        A total of seven operators can participate.

·        You will be able to revive each other.

·        You will have four revives.

·        If you lose all four revives, you won`t be able to participate in the game. At this point you have the choice to either stay until the end or leave the mission.

·        You also can revive yourself after counter reaches zero.

·        In-between mission rooms there are parkour sections e.g. ziplines. (just for fun)

·        Some operator abilities will change and altered in certain missions.

  • I'd make a joke about the Sonic '06 inspiration, but the entire section on Void Melee legitimately drained my capacity to be sarcastic and snarky.
  • Why only 7? Why not an even number like 4, 6, or 8?
  • Also, how does the revive thing work? Is it normal revive rules? Because it sounds a lot like normal revive rules.
  • I mean...Operator parkour sounds fun, but it's janky enough on the Warframes. Just let me use Void Dash.
  • If we're altering Operator abilities, then what's even the point of that entire section you had on Focus Tree changes?

The story premise is neat. I could see it being a Sentient plot to overwhelm the civilians with numbers, and we're trying to prevent that from happening.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 1: Locate two enemies with keys, unlock a door, reach the door before it closes, and let your team in.

Need to know:

  • You need to get into the base without being seen.
  • Enemies can easily detect fast movement which will alert them.
  • Operators cannot use void dash in this mission. 
  • An enemy seeing you will make them sound the alarms which will spawn more enemies. When that happens, you will trigger a countdown.
  • Multiple enemies are guarding the entrance with weaponry that will slow down the operator`s movement.
  • If the enemies set the alarm off or if teammates get to the other side but not achieved within time limit, there will be a penalty in mission two.
  • If an operator doesn’t reach the gate in time they will lose a life but will revive with the team.
  • Only two operators can complete mission one. Any more will have a chance to be detected by multiple enemies.
  • Enemies will have a detection bar above their heads.
  • If the detection bar fills up but the enemy doesn’t see you, it will take 15 seconds before they stand down.

Operator: Naramon

  • The naramon operator is the only one that can use void dash in this mission.
  • Operator can use void hunter to track down the enemies and to locate the keys to pickpocket them.
  • To avoid being stunned operator can disarm enemies with disarming blast.
  • Operator can cause a distraction with disorienting blast.
  • Operator is fast enough to reach the door before it closes with mind step and mind sprint.

Okay. So we're essentially using Ivara to snag important items to unlock a door that the rest of the team needs to enter before it closes again. And a Naramon Operator is given bonuses to this mission. That sounds cool, but it makes me wonder why the door is on a time limit. Why not have a countdown until all the Operators get to a safe zone that triggers a cutscene of the kids entering the building? Also, how would the other Operators be able to get there without being spotted if larger Void Mode energy pools are locked behind one specific tree?

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 2: Hack to retrieve two sentinels and guide them safely across the magnetic flooring to be extracted.

Need to know:

  • There will be a timer showing how quickly you need complete the mission.
  • There are three time marks at 5min, 10min and 15min
  • Depending on how quickly you take the sentinels to be extracted will depend on their performance in the final mission.
  • There will be a penalty in the next mission if you exceed the max time limit.
  • The ground you walk on will drain your energy.
  • There will be places to go to regenerate your energy, but it will prevent the sentinels from moving.
  • The sentinels` movement will be operated by operator`s energy.
  • There will be enemies trying to stop you.
  • There will be enemies using lasers that will slow the movement of the kart carrying the sentinels by aiming at them behind bulletproof window.
  • Penalty from mission 1: Operator`s energy will not regenerate.

Operator: Zenurik

  • Operator can regenerate teammates energy by using energizing dash.
  • Since enemies behind windows can’t get shot at only zenurik operator can use lightning dash to zip into the antenna above the sentinels to channel to enemies to kill them.
  • Operator can use void static to move the sentinels faster.
  • Enemies can be slowed down from reaching the lasers by using temporal blast.

So Heist, but with a timer, and if enemies see you they'll slow you down. Okay, that makes sense for a special challenge.

With the Zenurik Operator's special buffs, I can't help but think that could get overwhelming for just one person. And what would all the other Operators do? Sit there and play tiddlywinks? Oh hey, I got my snark energy back! Nice!

I think this one needs a little more thought into how enemies are dealt with. Because if it's solely up to one player (and by having the buffs, you're essentially saying that only one player can do this objective) then they need to have a way to avoid getting overwhelmed.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 3: Steal and protect a railgun until time runs out.

Need to know:

  • You will have 5 minutes to protect the railgun.
  • The air is polluted with nanobots that eat way at shields and health.
  • Nanobots will eat away at shields first then health of the operators.
  • There are hidden switches that will vacuum the pollution which will stop health and shield drain for 30secs. There are only two and can only be used twice.
  • Enemies will be trying to destroy the cannons.
  • The railgun being destroyed will be a penalty in the final mission.
  • The health of the railgun in the final mission will depend on how much is left after duration runs out.
  • Penalty from mission 2: The team will have to protect the railgun for 10 min.

Operator: Vazarin

  • Operator can protect the cannons using void aegis however it will only last 20 seconds. It can protect operators from enemy shots but not from the pollution.
  • Operator can give shields to team using guardian blast.
  • Teammates can be instantly revived by mending soul.
  • Protective dash can help with teammate`s survivability.

Okay! This is better! A mixture of Defense and Survival with a unique mechanic! That's cool! And this also gives the other players something to do while they wait! Also cool! AND the Operator with bonuses doesn't feel like they're playing a solo mission! Great! Now you gotta keep it up for the rest of the Trial (because that's basically what you're describing. The old Trial system that people called "raids" because that's what this type of mission is called in other games).

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 4: Kill as many enemies as you can within the time limit.

Need to know:

  • Floods of enemies will try to attack you.
  • There will be an indicator that will show how many enemies there are in total.
  • Drones are immune to void attacks.
  • Drones make enemies immune to attacks even when drone is killed.
  • Enemies can still see you even if you're invisible.
  • Enemies have increased armour and deal heavy damage.
  • The number of enemies left in the room after countdown reaches zero will determine how many enemies will appear in the final mission.

Operator: Unairu

  • Void chrysalis can reduce the teams` damage taken by enemies.
  • Hitting drones with magnetic blast can use enemies’ bullets to destroy them.
  • Providing the team with unairu wisps can deal damage to enemies that are immune by the drones.
  • Sundering dash can reduce enemies armour.
  • Enemies` damage can be reduced by using crippling dash.

And ya fumbled. Ya had it, and then ya fumbled. Okay, that's too mean. You didn't fumble completely.

Enemies that can see you even while in Void Mode? That screams "Natah" and lends credence to this being a plot by the Sentients.

Timed Exterminate, and the amount of enemies that remain being the amount of mooks in an upcoming boss fight, that's cool stuff! I like that a lot! And it'd be a great chance to utilize more Amalgam enemies!

Unairu players finally having a chance to use their abilities? I love that! (I play Unairu)

Where I feel like you dropped the ball is the Drones. There would need to be a very good explanation as to why the Drones are immune to Void Damage. Because the whole point of Void Damage is that it's not resisted by any enemy faction currently in the game. Other than that, we're picking up steam!

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 5: Breach a gate to get to the next mission.

Need to know:

  • There will be an indicator showing the percentage of completion.
  • Enemies behind a window will come and release a flood of oobleck.
  • The flood of oobleck will lead to the gate.
  • There will be drones that will come and constantly shoot at the oobleck to barricade the door.
  • When the oobleck reaches the gate the percentage number will stop.
  • There is an extractor fan beneath the oobleck to drain it to continue to breach the gate.
  • Enemies will try to stop you.
  • You can run and dash on the oobleck but if you stop moving you will sink.
  • One operator will need to go beneath the oobleck while the others need to be on top of it to shoot a switch.

Operator: Madurai

  • Using blazing dash in front of the oobleck can help evaporate and slow down the oobleck from reaching the gate.
  • Operator can use flaming blast to shoot the switch while under the oobleck and can be used to evaporate it.
  • Void strike can help increase the evaporation speed of the oobleck.
  • Void radiance can be used to blind all the drones at once to temporally stop them from shooting at the oobleck.

Okay, that's interesting. It's similar to the missions with Void Gates, but with the added element of the enemies trying to block your way, and there's a special way to clear a lot of it at once if you have the right setup.

This is another situation where I'm left asking what the other players are doing. But I guess they're shooting the gate?? And I'm not sure I fully understand what you're talking about with the switch.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 6: Steal an emp bomb & two keys, and rescue a drone to reach the core to destroy the facility.

Need to know:

  • On reaching this mission there is a crossroads. The left path (road one) leads to the emp bomb and the right path (road two) reaches to the drone.
  • In the middle is a terminal that must be hacked to bring down the laser barrier to enter the core. Deactivating the laser will only last 2 seconds.
  • Three operators will go one side, another three will go the other side and one will remain behind.
  • The operator that’s staying behind must protect the terminal from being destroyed by enemies.
  • If The terminal is destroyed, the drone will have to come to repair it after being retrieved.
  • The left side will be an obstacle/ parkour room.
  • The right side will be a path of enemies that will try to stop you.
  • On both paths there is another split path.
  • One side (road one) will lead to the key and the other leads to the emp bomb.
  • Same with the other side (road two) one will lead to the drone and the other to the key.
  • One operator on each side (road one & two) must stand on the switch to hold the doors open to let the other operators go through each of the doors and must stay behind to keep it open.
  • There are seven hidden orbs in this mission, finding them could be a big benefit.
  • Upon reaching the emp, drone and key, they must hack the door to retrieve them.
  • When coming back, an operator must hack the terminal for the operator with the emp bomb to pass through to place it next to the laser barrier to disable it.
  • After the barriers down place the two keys on each side of the entrance to open the doors.
  • The drone will disable the shield barrier to expose the core, go into the core and then the operators can destroy the drone to blow up the core.

Operator: All

Okay, this is a bit hard to understand, but I'll try to break it down.

  • There are two paths, and two teams of three go down each path while Player #7 gets left behind to fend off a hoard of enemies (jerk move, but whatever).
  • On Path A, you have to get through an obstacle course, which leads to Room A1 and Room A2.
  • One of the three opens the doors, and the other two go into the rooms to get their macguffins.
  • On Path B, you have to fight through enemies to get to a mirrored area, Rooms B1 and B2 with a terminal to open their doors.
  • When all four rooms are open and all four items are returned to the initial terminal, they're all used together to open the final door.
  • There are seven optional balls to grab for a mystery bonus.

Okay. I like encouraging the cooperation, but there's some problems.

  1. Without more than 7 players, you're basically telling someone to hold off enemies on their own. That needs to be a very appropriate number of enemies.
  2. You're reusing the keycard thing from Mission 1, and this step could easily be replaced by a laser switch to toggle the laser gates like in Corpus Spy vaults.
  3. Why even have the laser gate switches or keycards if the drone is just going to open the door anyway?
  4. People don't talk in Warframe. And people won't even go grab Syndicate totems without first getting over their need to stay silent with randoms. Without telling people why they're grabbing the orbs, they'll just ignore them. Heck, they'll likely ignore them anyway.
On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

The chase: Escape the worm

Need to know:

  • There will be obstacles in you way to slow you down.
  • There will be ziplines, pits, energy pool the will drain energy, flamethrowers and rubble that will slow you down.
  • The worm cannot take damage.
  • Energy won`t regenerate when uses void abilities. Void abilities can be used three time while void dash can only be used once.
  • There are explosives in the tunnel to cause a cave in.
  • Enemies will be trying to stop you.
  • If worm hits you, you will be knocked down and will start siphoning your health.
  • To escape use void blast however your will be affected with a toxin proc which will drain health until you get downed.
  • Crouching will not make you immune to the worms` hit.

Operators: All

  • Zenurik can regenerate teammates energy by using energizing dash.
  • Madurai can detonate the explosives using fire blast.
  • Naramon can distract the worm by using disorienting blast on an enemy.
  • Vazarin can give immunity and stop health drain from operators by using Protective dash and will last 20 seconds.
  • Unairu can dash at the worm to stop its movement by 3 seconds and is the only operator that is immune to the worm`s hits when crouching.

Escape "The Worm"? What worm? Is it the mechanical worm-looking things from The War Within? Is it a new form of Infested similar to Faas and Vome? Is it an earthworm and the kids are just freaking out for no reason? Your nouns need to have an associated entity to go with them.

Other than that, I like how you have an escape scene as the facility collapses, and how you tried to include all the Operator abilities in it. Makes for a nice climax. And you could have easily ended it there, with the Operators evacuating into a Railjack for that dramatic "jump into the helicopter" trope. But we still have a boss fight.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Mission 7: Defeat the boss

Need to know:

The boss will have three stages when defeating it depending on how much health is left. Worm form, mutated form (half health) and berserker state.

  • Someone will have to take the sentinels to control the them to hold the boss in place.
  • In worm form you have to get it`s shields down until it has none left. Then the sentinels will shoot lasers to hold the worm in place and then someone must charge up the railgun to damage it. You must do this twice until stage two.
  • In mutated stage you have to shoot two weak points on its arms to weaken it, the sentinels will hold it in place then use the railgun to damage it. You must do the three times until stage three.
  • In berserker state you have to shoot four weak points on its arms and legs then all operators must dash into it to weaken it, the sentinels will hold it in place then use the railgun to damage it.
  Hide contents

Boss fighting behaviour

  • Each time it`s health goes down it mutates and gets more dangerous.
  • Worm attacks: It can spit acid, suck players into its mouth dealing damage, and charge at operators.
  • Mutated attacks: In this form, it will grow two arms. It can charge at operators, hit them with its hands, and can use its tail as a whip.
  • Mutated berserker state attacks: In this form it grows two legs and is on all fours. It hits the ground causing aoe damage and brings down debris, vomits an acid pool, uses its tail as a whip, and lunges at the operators.

Advantages and Penalties:

  • If you complete missions 1-5 within time limits and with no penalties, you will be able to bring back fallen allies.
  • If you find all orbs from mission 6 the whole team will get one extra revive.
  • Completing mission 2 under 5 min will hold boss instantly, under 10 min will take 2 seconds, under 15 will take 4 seconds and over 15 will take 6 seconds. In that six seconds there is a chance that the boss could break free.
  • The number of shields and health left from the railgun from mission 3 will carry over.
  • If the railgun is destroyed, your team will have to work together to take the boss down using your amps.
  • The number of enemies that were left from mission 4 will appear to stop you.

Operator: All

  • Zenurik can slow boss down with temporal blast.
  • Madurai can do more damage and channel void strike into the railgun.
  • Naramon can stop boss from shooting at the team for 10 seconds using disarming blast.
  • Vazarin can support the team with abilities.
  • Unairu can support the team with protection and damage with abilities.

After defeating the boss, a door will open for your team to claim the rewards. Then the lotus will tell you to get to extraction.

Alright, this is cool. I like everything I'm seeing here. IDK if every player would be down for it, but I know it'd make for a fun as hek Clan activity.

If there's one thing I'd change, it's this:
Instead of 7 stages, make it 5 stages and a climax moment (the chase or the boss, but not both). Make it upwards of ten players (you'll see why). In each stage, two players of matching Focus Schools will have a challenge based around that school, and the other eight will watch in spectator mode. Then, while in the climax (either as the chase or the boss fight) four players will be in Operator mode doing the main thing, and the other six will be some form of support based on what bonuses were unlocked. It's not perfect, but I think it'd be fun.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

As for this part I’m not going to take credit for, I can`t remember who said but this person basically said that instead of gaining focus by putting lenses on warframes and weapons, it would be better to get focus by a specialized mission for operators that an NPC gives based on the focus school you are currently with.

For example
Madurai mission – exterminate all enemies (infested enemies)
Naramon mission – Infiltrate a base and steel classified intel on enemies` weaknesses and patrol routes.

If it`s from a syndicate:

Arbiters of Hexis – Complete challenges that will better your skills.
Steel Meridian – Storm into the base, rescue prisoners and escort them to extraction (obviously more interesting than this)

This will make getting focus more interesting and for the people that have done it already will get other rewards that only the people that have completed upgrading the focus schools will receive.

So in the first example, you play an entire standard mission with only Operator. In the second...it's the same, but sometimes there's challenges. IDK. I think there's a way to make that work, but I'm not sure how. But I do agree that we need more ways of grinding Focus.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Operators can also be used in conclave in fact I think they should replace warframe to give them a use. There could be a game-mode where you have to find 6 parts for you necramech, build it then you can use it to defeat you rivals.

Here is how it works:

  Hide contents
  • You play as the operator and you are with other operators and you have to search for six parts for your necramech, once you find them you have to repair it, get in it and annihilate the operators.
  • At the start operators can`t use any weapons or any focus school abilities except the way-bound passives.
  • Void dash is disabled.
  • When searching for the necramech parts it makes a sound when you’re near them.
  • At this time, you can also find three pickups in hidden areas where you can activate it from your gear wheel. One gives you the ability to void dash for 20 seconds, one makes you able to cast a decoy to where the person using the necramech can`t see the difference and a pickup that gives the necramech an explosive weapon for them to use for 20 seconds.
  • The parts are colour coded (red, orange, yellow, blue, green and purple)
  • You can pick up a necramech part of a colour you have picked up before.

Operator PvP challenges? Sounds neat for people who're into that.
What you suggested? There are no words for the level of hatred that would create within me.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Also their could be K-drive races where the gameplay is like mario karts.

Here is a post I put up about how it works.

Oh boy. Um...I like the idea, but someone would really need to rebalance those abilities.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Operator Cosmetics

I put up a post on the warframe forums and on reddit back on March last year asking if we could have the armour from the Erra quest and to my surprise a couple of months later the Bishamo armour is now purchasable from Teshin and now It my most favourite armour in the game.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1176452-operators-please-let-us-have-this/

https://www.reddit.com/user/Vexx757/comments/fkpslu/operators_please_let_us_have_this/

But I’m not satisfied I WANT MORE!

The crew members can wear armour pieces and syandanas if they can use them why can`t operators do the same thing, it would be sick if this was a thing.

Here is a post that @(NSW)Gamer-Steve has put up about it. 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1212287-expanding-operator-customization/

"But I’m not satisfied I WANT MORE!"

If you give a mouse a cookie, am I right?

I think the reason that the kids can't wear the same kinds of cosmetics that Warframes and crewmembers can is because they're kids and the cosmetics would literally be too big.

On 2021-04-28 at 7:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

I have an idea of armour pieces made out of resources. It could be a possible reward where you receive a blueprint and depending on what resources you use will determine the visual appearance like Argon Crystal Armour or Oxium Armour.

There are three different visual versions of the (argon crystal) armour, adding more of the same resource will change its appearance. The point of this is that you can decide to choose two more appearance options if you don`t like the first look.

I like the concept. But adding three versions of each "resource armor" would be too much.

TL,DR: You're pointing in the right direction, but you're going to too large of an extreme with it. If Operators are going to continue to be as important in the game as they are in the main quest, then they do need something more than "pop out, activate Zenurik's energy bubble, pop in". But a lot of what you've described could just be applied to the Warframes themselvse, and some of it already exists in the game in one form or another. We need something that can exist alongside the Warframes, not usurp them entirely.

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i see no reason why our operator can't do parkour like AC games, just saying "they are kids" won't justify it as they are using freaking killing machines to jump around(not bullet jump) , and do flips. so obviously they should be able to do similar actions. it will be just a fun little addition for those who like to climb and jump around, could have some operator only quest or mission node in future, where such things can be implemented. 

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@(PSN)Pragmatic_2015

Quote:

Spoiler

"Already gave it a squiz, it's a good idea but how long do you think it would take to actually make happen ????"

Can you be specific on what parts you liked or dislike about it? to answer your question I'm assuming next year when duviri comes out and that will be the time when the operators will get a look at.

 

@(NSW)Gamer-Steve

Just in case you didn`t see it, I have replied to your response.

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I feel like operators improved movement should involve their void powers. Like the sprint being them floating, and instead of double jump we could hold jump to fly at the cost of energy. As for melee, I want beam swords coming out of our palms.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2021-04-28 at 6:32 AM, Steel_Rook said:

In theory, Operator Void Dash is one of the most powerful traversal tools in the game due to the long distance it covers and how many Dashes we can chain together.

I disagree.  Simply because I love the strafing effect of the Operator void dash on the joystick. I don't have to look where I am going since I know the tile sets very well (Once you memorize the tile sets you run into it's a piece of cake, lol). I keep up with Wukong Cloudwalking on small maps no problem.  I probably just have been playing too long, so I am really good at the controls and I have always been great with spacial awareness, lol.  Usually at the exit first in public playing.

If you have problems with energy on console, you can setup hotkeys:  PS4/5 swipe pad you can set it up for energy pads(or other gear items), or customize your controls for Right Dpad to be Energy pad instead of 'Inspect player' because everyone I know just uses /profile (playername) anyway.

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Can't wait for Operator only missions after an update that does some of this stuff, lol.  Totally down for Operator Dash Races. 

You probably should have started with the Operator Melee weapons, that would make the crazy BUFFS more reasonable when reading them first.

The 'buffs' section of your post to all Focus Schools are a little much, I mean.. Eidolons would definitely be easier for new players (seeing you just double the max for your adjustments).. not saying it isn't needed since a lot of older players just use Voidrig Necromech Guard Mode Mortar shots now to take out limbs. I do think it would be a welcomed adjustment.  You basically just doubled all the damage. 

  • Madurai - You took VOID STRIKE from 8 and made it 15.  That's basically taking a lot of strategic planning out of the Eidolon fight for newer players who probably just maxed it out not long ago.  Thinking about it, It's fine for me as a long term player, but players that just are getting into it?  All of a sudden they are rocking Eidolons, lol.
  • Naramon - Void Stalker from 5 seconds to 2 seconds at 30 second whole, hmm.. well nobody uses operator melee that much in the first place.  It would be cool to see each tree have their own sorts of Operator Tenno Weaponry, like a fast blade for this tree, like you get to later in the post.  Doubling everything for the Operator to be viable I get, but if it affects the WF at all then I disagree with it.  Your Surging Dash would be abused, straight up.
  • Vazarin - Sonic Dash, I WOULD USE THIS because there are enemies you can do increased damage to while knocked up into the air.. I felt there was no reason to use it.  This would give me more of a reason to use Vazarin (besides making a moving defense target or a hostage I am saving invulnerable for a second to keep him from dying).   This would be a great change.  This tree needs the damage additives in that perspective.
  • Unairu - Basilisk Scales - Your version sounds too good, it's too overpowered on paper.  500% armor AND damage wisps?  The Operator Armor only goes to 200% now.  The increase in enemies taking more damage by dashing through them as well.. This would be the go to operator for clearing, lol.   I'm getting that Void Shadow and Void Chrysalis would not freeze the bigger baddies in stone, because obviously the protection from Chrysalis for other players would be pretty useless.  Also buffing Wisp time, wow.

Thing is, if you want people to RUN around as their operators, they are never going to die because of transference.  They go back to the Warframe the left behind.  So, there you have another major problem with all this buffing.

Conclave Operators = NO.. absolutely no operators inside Warframe combat.  If ONLY operator based fighting modes were available then that sounds fine.

You've got a lot of content here, and I try to live in the moment of 'What is' now.. so, realistically, this is A LOT.  I'm sure they are getting better and faster with their development stages but doesn't mean you should ask for some much that they cannot even chew on.  The one step at a time processes usually works best my dude (AT LEAST FOR DEVELOPERS).

Hope my idea for Loadout slots comes first though, posted over a year ago, because Operator Fashion Frame has it, and Operator's need it!

 

Edited by (PSN)Poestis
Corrections. duh.. hehe.
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@(PSN)Vexx757 I think there are a lot of good thoughts in this thread that DE should take notes from, and consider having Duviri Paradox be the primary means with which Operator functionality is upgraded. I think Operators actually could stay a smidge underwhelming in their current form, with only minor tweaks needed to mesh them with the current game design better, so that the Duviri Paradox could be a moment with which we see Operators truly experience a metamorphosis, evolve to be their own potent gameplay option, rather than something that exclusively augments Warframe gameplay but is lackluster to utilize on it's own.

I kinda agree with Poe though

6 hours ago, (PSN)Poestis said:

You've got a lot of content here, and I try to live in the moment of 'What is' now.. so, realistically, this is A LOT.  I'm sure they are getting better and faster with their development stages but doesn't mean you should ask for some much that they cannot even chew on.  The one step at a time processes usually works best my dude (AT LEAST FOR DEVELOPERS).

I agree and feel like a lot of these individual suggestions should be proposed individually, so that DE can easily synthesize the information and gauge player response to each thing presented. Making more content islands that are more likely to remain abandoned and decaying (look at how K drives still feel inferior to Archwing's mobility and Ability and primary weapon access, and are barely an improvement to Warframe mobility in Open Worlds aside from less button-pressing strain. Look at Conclave. Look at Railjack and Steel Path still being predominantly content islands. Look at Frame Fighter) is probably not the best idea unless it was REALLY well-made, and had really good integrations with the rest of the game at large. Come to think of it... Pvp racing for both vent kid standing and Steel essence, and having Conclave and Frame Fighter do so too.... Those would invigorate the amount of playing done on those modes. Anyways though, it'd have to be really well done and well integrated in order to not become an abandoned system, and we'd be more likely to see positive changes come from making some ironclad, narrow-focused forum threads that address each thing individually, that would accumulate crazy amounts of upvotes that bring DE's attention to the desire present for those systems.

You could retool this thread to serve as like, a masterpost linking to each of these other threads, and also have it logically organized in a way that each person would be able to find what they'd be interested in, such as new game modes (contentious), base operator fixes, operator work proposals (contentious), Duviri Paradox upgrades (potentially powercreep'y), operator melee proposals, and menu/ui-based issues/proposals, etc, each hidden in it's own spoiler so that the main post is super clean and people can ignore what they don't feel like reading or offering constructive criticism on.

 

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Well, I certainly see why you wanted to PM some folks about this thread considering the amount of work it must have taken to put this together. I really have to applaud you on that, this thread must have taken forever to put together.

That said, I hate to have to be the negative Nancy after you put in so much work, but...

The reason I don't like the operator is the same reason I don't like archewing, the whole thing feels disconnected from what I really want to be doing: being some sickass space cyborg ninja. I use the operator mode, only because it's the easiest way to regenerate energy and revive down allies. That's already too much requirement to use it for me. If they added more game types and/or enemies, what-have-you, I'd be even more annoyed to have to use this potato-faced kid (I also don't want to play as a kid, but that's not really relevant to this topic).
And truth be told, most of your proposed changes I don't think will change my mind about the operator.
But, I'm certain just like my opinion on the "lore" and the story in this game, I am in a minority. So just to end: really impressive work putting this together.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm going to first admit that I did not read the entirety of your Operator post.  I pretty much stopped at the Focus improvements and skimmed through the rest, but that's mostly because I haven't even done enough grinding to complete my initial school--Unairu--much less the rest of them.

Unfortunately, I would largely disagree with most of your opinions regarding Operator movement except for an increase in movement speed.  I feel like Operators are supposed to be separate from Warframes, and thus should have their own unique movements.  Would it be easier if they could move more like Warframes?  Yes, but, if your movement improvements and Amp improvements are made--and I'm probably coming to a realization of my own here--I think players would probably just switch to using Operators completely.

The Focus schools and grinding out Focus could definitely be improved, and your idea for Operator-specific missions is decent, but I feel like some people may not like it, or it would be more difficult for newer players since the Mote Amp is AWFUL.

I thought Operator melee weapons would be interesting as well, and I do really like your idea of each Focus school having their own weapon specialties, but how would they be implemented?  Would you be able to replace your Void Blast, or would it be like switching weapons as a Warframe?  Or something completely different?  And what about people who like having melee attacks bound to the same button/key across all playable forms (Warframe, Archwing, Necramech)?  Would the weapons be another set of modular items, or would it just be selecting a "form" (essentially a weapon type and stance) for your weapon that would modify its base stats in addition to any bonuses given by your currently equipped school?  Also unfortunately, I would disagree with the idea of Void Rage, as I think it would be too strong and too much.  You'd also probably end up with the issue that--in MY opinion--the devs still haven't fully fixed, which is that melee would again dominate the game (from the point of Operator gameplay, anyway).  I think for now refining your Void Melee idea until you've got something really solid is a good way to go.  I would personally start by refining the concept and functionality, THEN start thinking about what different bonuses and abilities the different schools could give to Void Melees.

Lastly, I'm going to admit that I'm not going to read your K-Drive post.  Nothing personal, and I'm sure you have some good ideas, I just hate the grind needed to obtain any K-Drives outside of the Infested one, and how they have more to them than Amps despite being--again, in my PERSONAL opinion--largely useless since Archwings and Necramechs are WAY better in the open-world areas.

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yeah, the entire system feels clunky for tenno, outside of the passive buffs, tenno are still useless.

they really only serve the purpose of reviving teamates, or being forceably used to kill the eidolons.

spamming the button to recieve the buffs too from magus healing i guess is all i use the tenno for

 

The 5 schools could see a touchup and buff, to increase their depth towards their 5 categories.

Healer - Tank - Damage - Melee/stealth - Caster.

Vazarin - Unairu - Madurai - Naramon - Zenurik.

 

If they added a new power up that was another passive, that focused around those 5 schools, maybe focus could become Warframes true Class system.

The system itself could offer a bit of a way to "Focus" more on those aspects. while also retooling the movement/combat of tenno to be valid.

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Operator Voices

On devstream 157 yesterday DE talked about recasting the operator voice actors and reducing the voice actors to only one male and one female, I understand why they decided to do this however I don`t like this because there is a 50/50 chance that I (people) will like the new voices they choose.

One thing I have herd from other ppl they don`t like any of the male voice actors, me personally I would of have two male and two female voice actors but one is Caucasian and one is Negro of each gender.

Reason:

  • There`s a chance that the voices don`t fit the face of your customised operator. For me the falcon (female) voice actress sound like the typical blonde bimbo and it also reminds me of the legally blond movie, that`s why having two was good because at lease you have a choice, if you operator is Negro you can obviously pick the voice actor or actress that is a Negro. This is something they need to do more in gaming when it comes to customising character voices.

Operator charecters by Aaronj-c

  • One thing I have notices and you guys can try this outside of this game, weather you are born and raised in America or in the UK if you close your eyes and listen to a Indian or a Chinese person speak you won`t be able to identify what race they are because of the accent, you would assume that it was a Caucasian person speaking however (for the most part) if you listen to a Negro person speak you can identify them, their is something about the voices of Negros that you are able to identify them. The point is as much as I would love for their to be an option for Indian and Chinese voices for it to be fair, it would make more sense to use two Negro voices and two Caucasian voice options (based on what I said you can also hire an Indian or Chinese voice actor and actress from America or the UK).

Unfortunately that`s not the case if I had to make a choice I would like for them to keep the raven (female) voice actress but pick a new male voice actor for the role.

But what are you guys opinion on this?

Edited by (PSN)Vexx757
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Hmmm, this was a tough one to think of a good reply for, but I'll try:

- Movement definetly needs to be improved. Sprinting and jumping are too weak atm.

- I don't feel like most of the buffs to passive stats like the armor buff from Unairu or the damage/energy increases of Madurai are needed. They feel fine to me (a fully decked out Operator with Magus Husk and Magus Vigor is surprisingly tanky, even against Eidolons, and can be decently spammy with weapons) and buffing them will risk Operators becoming better than Warframes at being tanks and other things. 
I do fully agree with Void Strike needing to change so continous fire weapons can also be used with it. It currently limits your options for what kind of amp you can use. And it charging its damage faster per second would be very nice indeed, it takes kinda too long for my liking atm to get to a good enough buff level when Eidolon hunting solo.

The main way I can think of buffing Operators in general and make them more interesting is actually not that hard to implement, just look at all the interesting Arcanes they have, some of them even aim to improve the things Operators suck at atm like Cadence giving a big boost to sprinting. Changing Void damage to other types, damage adaptation, healing, making K-drives go way faster, reduce enemy resistances to damage types, etc are all there. BUT! We only have 2 Arcane slots for Operators and 1 for Amps.... yeah, that ain't gonna cut it.
My suggestion is to increase the slots for Operator to 4-5 and Amps to 3, this will give you enough room to have the really good ones on there, while still being limited enough to force you to make choices and not just slap every single one you want on there.

- Operator loadout slots and being tied to Warframe loadouts NEEDS to happen! As it is now, it's just annoying having to change my Eidolon set-up to a regular one every time. Off-topic, but I'd also like Necramechs and Archwings to recieve the same treatment.

- Void Rage is a great idea imo and certainly the kind of flashy new thing DE could use to give the Duviri Operators some more oomph! Won't comment on balancing this thing, I'll leave it to the more professional players out there.

- Agree with people here saying focus trees need to be more of a regular skill tree where you can just activate the ones you want and not be forced into some just to have access to others. 

- Changing stuff so Operator abilities are used the same way Warframe abilities are is a good idea imo. Would grant more flexibility and make controls more in line with Warframes, always a good thing, especially for newer players (I remember it taking some time to get used to Operator controls as a newbie).

- Operator Tennogen needs to happen. This is a "well duh!" and just baffles me that it ain't a thing yet.

 

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I didn't read much of the post but:

I agree partly with Movement Speed buffs, Operator is rather slow.

Madurai focus school change absurd.

I didn't see Naramon

Vazarin changes for bubble and fields being visible is great, being able to activate the shield(for what it's worth) and deactivate it without having to hold it forever is nice.

Unairu damage reflection could definitely use being buffed.

Aside from that I genuinely have no clue why players would want Operators having Melee weapons or even worse NEW Melee weapons.
While it'd be nice having these other options be improved or made better I'd rather keep playing Warframe, not Operator or NechWarrior. Without any form of joking I'd be concerned if they gave us yet another type of "character" to be able to play or transfer to.

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On 2021-04-28 at 8:29 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Void Rage

Void weapons have a gauge that can be filled up by killing enemies. When this happens, the operator is in a powerful state that increases melee damage, attack speed and amplify weapon bonuses.

·       Void rage will last one minute.

·       Upon activation, operator will scream in rage surrounded by an aura (operator`s energy colour)

Visually the weapon is broken, then as the operator kills enemies it start to become whole and when it does you can activate void rage.

This idea is cool, but it could use a little refinement. So, why not replace this with something a little more grounded in the lore and a whole lot cooler.

Fury of the Void

This is 'unlocked' after you complete the Chains of Harrow quest. When you take damage that drops your Operator's health below a certain threshhold, the edges of your vision begins to repeatedly flash red. When this happens, you must press the Void rage button within a second or two, and hold it until the edges of your vision stop flashing red to avoid triggering Fury of the Void. The less health you have left, the longer you have to hold it before the edges of your vision stop flashing. If you fail to either press the button or hold it for long enough, you momentarily hear the Man in the Wall voice his approval, then Fury of the Void will trigger.

Upon activation, the operator will scream in rage, and begin levitating as tendrils of void energy extend from their back. Fury of the Void lasts about a minute, and while it is active, the operator has shields equal to 10 times their maximum health, movement speed is massively increased, the operator's amp/void beam is replaced with a devastating death ray of void energy, and the operator's melee attacks are replaced with the void tendrils mentioned earlier, which do a metric sh*tton of void damage. 

However, there is a downside. Firstly, friendly fire is ENABELED while Fury of the Void is active, and all your attacks while it is active have utterly huge AoEs. One must be very careful to not hit any allies or destructible objectives (ie warframe cryopods or fomorian reactors) while Fury of the Void is active. Secondly, you cannot use transference to enter your warframe during Fury of the Void and for about 60 seconds after it wears off, and also cannot re-activate Fury of the Void for those 60 seconds. If you die during that period, you either fail the mission or are shunted into spectator mode, depending on whether you're in singleplayer or multiplayer. No bleed-out time, no self-revives.

Basically, the overarching principle here is that the Man in the Wall can turn your operator into a relentless death-machine for a minute, but once that minute is up, you're going to have to pay for it.

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On 2021-09-29 at 1:35 AM, ScytodiDaedalus said:

While it'd be nice having these other options be improved or made better I'd rather keep playing Warframe, not Operator or NechWarrior. Without any form of joking I'd be concerned if they gave us yet another type of "character" to be able to play or transfer to.

They already have. It's called an Archwing.

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I'll lead with the fact you made a good choice in DMing me. I'm the person who asked the operator question that Reb read during Devstream (I've changed my name since then). She did skim some areas, since my initial post contained a variety of simple, popular topics, but that does mean DE did read it. I had prominently mentioned Melee amps, k-drive usage, improvement in character lines, etc. Some of that has been addressed since then. We have confirmation during the last dev stream that they ARE working on some significant operator-related topics, but discussing it is near impossible right now. I'm guessing this is in regards to Duviri. I can't remember exactly when but Steve mentioned that they will once again re-examine focus schools, and last stream they briefly talked about changing the cringe-worthy operator lines we have. (Although I'm very upset to know they'll be reducing the VA's even further. Choices are important.)

About your post. 

Firstly, well done. I can tell you poured a ton of time into this. Your dedication does not go unnoticed. That being said, I feel I am echoing the majority of commenters with my input so I will try to add things I didn't see mentioned yet. 

 

Movement

Yes, I strongly agree that operators need improved movements. They should have normal movement during void mode rather than an agonizing crouch. They also absolutely need an increase in running speed. I like a suggestion someone made about them emitting wisps of void energy to show when they hit max speed or when they are balancing. As for a wall run, this is something Warframes can already do to some extent (though it's more like a bunny hop than a run) so it'd be hollow giving it to the operators. Parkour, however, would be appreciated simple from the fact that these teens can perform some insane flips off ledges already. They should at the very least be able to jump naturally from one ledge to another. Perhaps rolling when they hit the ground like actual parkour runners.

For jumping, rather than a double jump, I think it should instead be a charge jump (as mentioned by others) where the longer you hold down the jump button, the higher they will jump, emitting visible energy to indicate void-enhanced jumping.

 

Abilities/focus school

I've never cared for the way the focus schools were designed. Although in lore the schools were built around Tenno learning to use the void for different styles of fighting, they are largely buff related and not something most people would describe as fun or exciting. And apart from way-bound, most aren't even remotely useful for the operators themselves. It would be more interesting to see these schools give abilities to Operators that allow them to survive without a warframe in their own way. Warframes are all-powerful killing machines. Operators on the other hand are supposed to fight smarter, not harder. If you're playing as an operator, it should center around using your abilities strategically to stay alive. (This would also open the door for Operator-only missions). I would like to see some unique abilities that play more on the void aspect of the game rather than the "buff" aspect. 

Why not levitation? They already do it with the meditation emote. It doesn't have to be something as extreme as flying (though that would be cool if it was for a short duration), but being able to hover somewhere for a short period of time would be helpful and would allow them to reach places a Warframe can't access/fit. This could be a school specific skill like Zenurik or instead something that works similar to waybound where it comes from one school but is accessible to all once unlocked. I'm thinking something like in the game Control. 

Spoiler

 

levitate.gif

Speaking of Control, it has several other psychic abilities that could make significant sense when re-imagined for operators. For example, shielding in the game. The operator could use their void abilities to either create a shield or pick up debris to shield themselves with. This would work well in Unairu. Yes, I know they have stone skin, but I'm here to discuss active gameplay, not passive. Blocking enemy fire is a must.

Spoiler

shield.gif

Or how about picking up objects to throw at enemies for Madurai. Damage could scale based on the size of the object, or it could be based on level in the focus school or something else. Either way, it'd be a great use of the insane number of crates, chairs and random loot containers that are lying around. (And I think everyone could agree that there's something immensely satisfying about beating someone in the face with a flying chair.)

Spoiler

launch.gif

Or a ground shock wave

Spoiler

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Naramon, since it's focus is on "knowing the enemy", they could use transference to control enemies like during the WW Golden Maw scene. Back then, DE wasn't able to design a game mechanic like that and had to drop it, but now they probably have the knowledge for it. Or they could have it work on select enemy types. 

As said, I don't care that much about the focus school to think further on other options, but DE is missing out on a great opportunity to make operators unique in their own way. They don't have to have insane health pools. They just need a way to make use of what they already have. Strategic abilities are the way to go. (And with the number of abilities they design for warframes, adding a few to the operators wouldn't be that far out of their skill scope). 

Bonus ability: Telekinesis. They could use the void to move large objects to other places (significant drain on energy for larger objects), pull apart walls to access hidden locations, interact with complex puzzles, teleport things or simply rearrange and influence the world around them. The void already has those abilities in the lore. The operators should be able to utilize that.

 

Quality of Life

I would love to see the operators have more access to in-game activities. Things like fishing, mining, k-drive racing (like come on, you're telling me a 5 year old can do it but not a teenager that pilots a killing machine?) I'd also love to see some more mini-games similar to the mining. Cooking especially. I got excited with that community kitchen in Cetus, only to find out that cooking wasn't being added to the game. I get it for the Warframes, but the operators should be able to eat, they're living people, so a cooking mini-game would be welcomed. 

Amps that can be used for melee, like concentrated void-blades

Facial expressions, please. Especially with the emotes. DE has gotten significantly better with facial rigging at this point, as evident with the New War Trailer. They should be well-equipped now to give the operators proper facial-expressions so they don't stare blankly into space while waving and dancing nor make cringe-worthy faces when speaking.

Wishful thinking, but could they please link the facial settings to the operator loadouts? I have two operators (and op clearly has 4) so I know just how much of an absolute nightmare it is to swap those settings. I hate it so much.

 

Sun/Moon alignment for Personalities

I can't take credit for this since I saw it many years ago on Reddit, but someone suggested that the Sun/Moon alignment should influence the personality of the operator. Night be for calm, serious operators and Day be for the fiery extroverted operators. Personally, since I know DE admitted that they forgot about the alignment, I'd rather just have this be another option after VA or stance. This would give the operators individuality. It's something I mentioned in my post that Rebecca read on stream, so I hope she shared it with the team. If the operators can look different, sound different and make different choices in the quests, they should have different personalities too.

 

Cosmetics

Grineer and Corpus themed attire would be VERY cool. We have some similar things with the Fortuna clothing, but nothing explicitly Grineer or Corpus. Syndicate clothing would also be welcomed, although their style is more jumpsuits than anything else. Those assets are begging to be redesigned, but that's for a different time. 

Also Tennocon operator clothes when? We have a talented community. I know many would be able to tackle this with ease if it was ever allowed.

 

Future Mission ideas

Coming from a very active roleplaying community, I've had many years to think about missions that the operators could run, but unfortunately many of them would require reworking the operators current abilities to give them more survivability. However, one mission type I'd love to see would be a type of Operator-infiltration. Now that the Lotus is gone, those mysterious operatives of hers should no longer be coordinating with the Tenno. So it should now fall on them to carry out those missions. Say they need to gather intel from a Corpus magnate that lives in a metropolis on Pluto, or seek out a missing colonist that was last seen at an asteroid pub circling Saturn, a warframe would NOT blend in. They'd need an actual human being in order to slip in and get the information.  In the lore, it's not common knowledge that the Tenno are human beings, however, it IS common that teens and young adults are often traveling the system to work as bounty hunters, rogues, mercenaries, treasure hunters, etc. to do whatever they can to survive. Therefore, where a warframe would stand out, no one would bat an eye to see a young adult wandering around. This leads to my idea.

Operator-infiltration could be missions given by the Syndicates where the Tenno would need to carry out a covert mission by using their abilities strategically to get around and interacting with civilians. It'd be a great opportunity for mini-quests and new mission types that are more engaging than the typical rinse and repeat mission grinds we do now. It could reward focus, operate-related arcanes, amp parts, and other operator related gear. Naturally this wouldn't be something DE would immediately implement since they only have three colonies right now, but it would be exciting for future updates. I know DE has talked about adding more colonies in the future, including a Corpus metropolis, so we shall see. 

 

 

Thanks for sticking with me till the end of this post. If I'm allowed to complain about one bug, it's that my operator's hair disappears every time he uses void abilities, accesses Navigation, or is visit by MITW. It's very annoying, though I'm unsure how many hairstyles this affecting. Anyway, that's everything I could think of as of right now. I'll add more if I come up with anything else.

Edited by Erebus
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