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Will all QoL Changes require a Slot from now on? [Discussion about Wisp's new Reservoirs Augment and other Band-Aid Mods]


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I once made a similar (but different) post using Nekros as an example.

It feels like many of the augments are required for a skill to be even worth using; despoil, shield of shadows

My solution was to add some minor bit of relevant stats into the augments.

For example, 

  • Omni Reservoir could also add 10 range and 10 power strength
  • Despoil could add 50 max energy and 10 range
  • Shield of shadows could add 10 power strength and 10 duration

Just something minor to compensated the use of a slot. 

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Wisp is among the best frames in the game and very welcome in any group. There are frames in a far, far worse condition, so don't beg for buffs. Wisp gets an augment, that is good and if you don't like it, how about not equipping it?

I for one will try out the augment in every situation that is not static. For example in Extermination it enables me to play a Wisp when before I'd rather play any other frame than dropping the 3 buffs every 45 seconds.

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Is the augment just QoL though?

You can have, what, 6 reservoirs. At the moment you have to choose one bonus per reservoir. If you place at least a health and speed reservoir together, that's 3 locations. If you want all 3 bonuses, then that's only 2 locations. With this you get the full set of bonuses over 6 locations. You could argue this is in effect a range mod.

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I'm just bummed that my Reservoirs idea didn't make it in, having them work opposite and on enemies. Health mote is a DoT, Haste slows, and Shock I guess still shocks but it also latches onto enemies and periodically CCs them and nearby enemies.

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Posted (edited)

A big problem that they don't seem to want to adress are the cycle abilities in and off themselves.

They are so poorly implemented, imo.

Do something like this (linked below), and the need for stuff like Wisp's Omni-cast would feel less needed. At least it would for me.

 

Edited by Azamagon
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hace 11 horas, Dunkelheit dijo:

how about not equipping it?

You are missing the point:
- Once an Augment for an Ability is launched that's it.
Forget about getting another Augment, at least for that specific Ability
(I know there are exceptions, but those were conclave augments shipped into pve)

When you make an Augment a Band-Aid Mod, you are literally 
wasting an opportunity to make something that will actually open
new build and playstyle possibilities, which is the POINT OF AUGMENTS
in the first place. That's what "Augment" means.

Do you guys realize that an Augment that works as a Band-Aid mod is 
LITERALLY NOT AN AUGMENT by definition?

These should be renamed as QoL Mods or something at this point.

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hace 4 horas, SenorClipClop dijo:

I'm just bummed that my Reservoirs idea didn't make it in, having them work opposite and on enemies. Health mote is a DoT, Haste slows, and Shock I guess still shocks but it also latches onto enemies and periodically CCs them and nearby enemies.

That's an AMAZING idea bro

If you post it let me know so I can upvote it

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18 hours ago, PO41089 said:

Yhea, true. But I can't remember another augment as bad as this one on that regard.

There's nothing "bad" about this augment. Faster zone setups, no need to cycle and all of the buffs are great. It's also not a QoL improvement by a long shot because you're not thinking of the variety and energy this augment takes away. Its either all or nothing and most players hate options like that if it's permanent.

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19 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Equinox Mend&maim augment.

Uff, forgot about that one. But even that one you can be devil's advocate and say is letting you use the healing of Mend (with shield gating) and the CC form Night form until you want to use your Maim charge. It also should be part of the ability, not an augment. But it lets you use the ability in a different way.

This is just press one button instead of 5.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Its either all or nothing

Is not. The augment adds a 4th Mote that combines the other 3, it doesn't remove the individuals one. It lets you put all 3 at once instead of one at a time. Call me crazy, but that looks like a QoL change to me. 

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It may have been QOL drive, but this augment is not ONLY about QOL.

Watch the stream again. The omni reservoir counts as a SINGLE reservoir. Remember that Wisp can place up to 6 reservoirs. That isn't changing with the augment. She can still place 6. Reb was still placing 6 even with omni reservoirs placed in the stream. We'll be able to now place 6 omni reservoirs, which is like placing 18 reservoirs, one of each other the 3 base ones. Now you'll be able to place them at all interception nodes. I think 6 is also the typical number of excavation points for excavation missions. Running the Uranus defense mission with the 4 defense targets that randomly change each round? No more having to recast the motes after each wave if it goes to one you haven't placed them on.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-04-30 at 11:17 PM, Roble_Viejo said:

So yeah, my concern is that every and each QoL from now own will come in the form of Augments
and will pretty much represent a slot less in your build. 

Don't be ridiculous.... Most QoL changes will continue to not exist 😝.... like Universal Vacuum 😝..... There... Feel better 🙂

On 2021-04-30 at 11:17 PM, Roble_Viejo said:

A much better idea from the top of my head:
Explosive Reservoirs: The Reticle to teleport to a Reservoir now also
allows to hold the ability cast to make it explode for X damage in its AoE, while 
refreshing the Duration of all Active Reservoirs (Active=Floating around players)

I could have sworn the Motes were capable of exploding before Wisp was released 🤔.... Apparently they removed that feature....

It's pretty crazy to think about since that Functionality didn't require a slot.

 

Edited by Lutesque
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On 2021-04-30 at 5:20 PM, Joezone619 said:

If this ends up being the case, i really hope they add a warframe augment mod slot, that only 1 augment mod can go into.

This will never happen because it defeats the point of an augment mod. Augment mods are supposed to be a meaningful choice in your build, you give up something else to gain the effect of the augment. If they add a slot just for augment mods there is no meaningful choice anymore and everyone will just run augments with every build.

How many times does this have to be explained before people get it?

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

You are missing the point:
- Once an Augment for an Ability is launched that's it.
Forget about getting another Augment, at least for that specific Ability
(I know there are exceptions, but those were conclave augments shipped into pve)

When you make an Augment a Band-Aid Mod, you are literally 
wasting an opportunity to make something that will actually open
new build and playstyle possibilities, which is the POINT OF AUGMENTS
in the first place. That's what "Augment" means.

Do you guys realize that an Augment that works as a Band-Aid mod is 
LITERALLY NOT AN AUGMENT by definition?

These should be renamed as QoL Mods or something at this point.

Are you just going to ignore everyone in this thread that’s pointed out how this isn’t just a bandaid because Omni Reservoirs still only count as one reservoir? Effectively tripling your active Reservoirs? That ain’t too shabby.

It’s still not a great augment, but you’re being very disingenuous here.

Edited by (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face
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I don't think we have enough information to say whether this is just a QoL change yet.  We don't know how much it will cost to activate, nor do we know if it will adjust the limit of 6.  Since each cast gives you a reservoir with 3 effects, maybe this will mean that you can only lay down 2?  We'll have to wait and see.  Anything until then is just speculation.

Regardless, adding new Augment-only "slots" is a bad idea, as many Augments are powerful enough to be worth using despite the fact that they occupy one of your normal slots.  If you don't think an Augment is good enough to be worth a slot, then at worst it's an issue with that specific Augment, not the Augment system overall.

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i know players hate to hear this- but modding is supposed to be about difficult choices. It cant just all be about easy to choose no brainer buffs. This augment is the kind of thing you can decide to use because of its convenience, or drop because you dont need it. Its ambiguous by design. 

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

This will never happen because it defeats the point of an augment mod. Augment mods are supposed to be a meaningful choice in your build, you give up something else to gain the effect of the augment. If they add a slot just for augment mods there is no meaningful choice anymore and everyone will just run augments with every build.

How many times does this have to be explained before people get it?

i get the point... but I'd just like to point out... zephyr has an augment that turns off her passive...

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I really thought this was going to be the tipping point, an Augment
so laughably bad that no one could defend it with a straight face. 

I keep underestimating the White Knights, huh... 

 

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3 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

I really thought this was going to be the tipping point, an Augment
so laughably bad that no one could defend it with a straight face. 

I keep underestimating the White Knights, huh... 

 

Who knows, maybe in the future we may get more than one augment for abilities, and wisp might get a better one for reservoir? Only time will show. I suppose this one will stay dissappointing until that date unfortunately. :/

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1 hour ago, Roble_Viejo said:

I really thought this was going to be the tipping point, an Augment
so laughably bad that no one could defend it with a straight face. 

I keep underestimating the White Knights, huh...

When someone disagrees with me, I find it best to just dismiss their viewpoints and attribute our differences to a flaw in their character.  It couldn't be that people who aren't me have different perspectives and different preferences, it's definitely that people who disagree with me are deficient in some way.  That's what I keep telling myself, at least.

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1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

i get the point... but I'd just like to point out... zephyr has an augment that turns off her passive...

This is an exceptional case, though.  There are people who don't like the way Zephyr and Nezha's passives feel, and these mods allow them to be turned off.  Notably, these wouldn't have to be Augments; they could just be mods that disable specific passives, it's just that only Nezha and Zephyr have those passives so having them be Augments makes it less confusing.  But I think it's fair to consider the "passive-killer" augments in a different category.  They also give buffs so that they basically function as other mods, too (admittedly, this is less than ideal, but it's an attempt).

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4 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

i get the point... but I'd just like to point out... zephyr has an augment that turns off her passive...

Yes some augments are terrible, not disputing that. But we don’t need to encourage DE to respond to bad design choices with more bad design choices.

The real goal should be to make all augment mods good.

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4 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

I really thought this was going to be the tipping point, an Augment
so laughably bad that no one could defend it with a straight face. 

I keep underestimating the White Knights, huh... 

 

 

7 hours ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Are you just going to ignore everyone in this thread that’s pointed out how this isn’t just a bandaid because Omni Reservoirs still only count as one reservoir?

So the answer is yes.

Just ignore people who disagree with you and then claim no one can defend it with a straight face. Honestly hilarious.

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It does seem they are leaning towards the philosophy of :

Why fix things if we can sell completely new things instead.

It also kinda justifies the effort put in i suppose, why make changes if you cant really see any gain (plat purchase/time investment) from it.

For the same reason i wish they made a mechanism to burn augments into frames at the cost of some resource (same as the resource cost of an augment mod i suppose),

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17 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i know players hate to hear this- but modding is supposed to be about difficult choices. It cant just all be about easy to choose no brainer buffs. This augment is the kind of thing you can decide to use because of its convenience, or drop because you dont need it. Its ambiguous by design. 

I disagree with with only one tiny part about this Design Methodology.... And that's Convenience being one of the Criteria that factors into these choices....

Because when push comes to shove.... If the content demands it... Then nobody is going to mod for Convenience because gets you no closer to completing your objective.... That's one of the no Brainers you are trying to avoid is it not ?

 

You are right that modding is about Difficult Choices but Convenience shouldn't be one of those Choices.... 

A simpler way of putting it is: Things that make a difference in Performance/Functionality shouldn't have to compete for space with things that make a difference with Convenience/Personal Preference.... The moment you start treating those two things as equals then you're going to have a problem on your hands.... Not a serious one.... But it's a problem that doesn't need to exist....

 

 

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