Archwing Still Sucks

[(XBOX)Vamma Takayn]

Warframe update 30 brought alot of desired space combat, including volatile, defense, exterminate, all of these were amazing and verymuch needed to be added, but they forgot some glaring features. the Archwing.

The Archwing was declared the damage was "normalized" and yet when I take the archwing into comparative regular missions the archwing does fine, but cant kill anything. it appears the archwing still has its "-90%" damage debuff as a means to dictate players chosen way to obtain of missions success. If a player wants to fly in the archwing to make kills that should be a valid way to kill fighters if they want to be on turrets (which should 1 shot as a means of combat superiority with MKIII) but the archwing should deal little to no damage. The video below goes over all of these, but i wanted to place them here as well. if a player wants to capture a crewship and destoy the fightes and other crewships that should also be a choice. lets start with thefirst meathod. archwing

 

Archwing 

Archwings get 1 shot

Archwing combat as mentioned was declared normal, but its been anything but normalized. the necramechs were over powered when they came out, but archwings seemed to get nerfed with every passing update, now in POE the archwing can get 1shot even with all the superior glory of maxed health shield and armor mods, it would seem the amesha is the only archwing that wouldn't recieve this nerf and is the only archwing that can recieve a full frontal missle and still make it out alive. and since every open world is littered with some mechaninc to end all air traffic, this makes it rather difficult to choose any other archwing except for amesha.

Archwings are still 90% damage nerfed in railjack missions (video shows this disparity)

The devs are talking about nerfing melee and yet archwing melee cant be spawned in missions like the primaries can, they cant kill the enemies in railjack like the railjack can, they are just over glorified warframe transporters. this was suppose to be normalized and yet it feels yet abnormal for a power fantasy. its so nerfed that even the melee changes that trickled over dont actually hit like in other normal missions

Archwings still cant kill a crewship

in a power fanatasy it would make sense that the under dog item sould be able to kill crewships, if a player sits all day pointing the barrel at the crewship the crewship inspite its health reaching 0, will not die this is particularly disparaging because the effort feels stolen from the player. because in every game mode with the exception of bosses fights when the health of standard units hits 0 the enemy dies, it shouldnt be an excpetion for the crewships.

Crewships

Crewships Use to have 40,000 health

Crewships on day one of railjack launch had a benefit when capturing that they had an incredibly high health capacity. this was off set by its low damage, but then the crewships health was changed to match the railjacks. this had some hopes in that we thought the mods we equipped would come as well and that the crewships although maybe possible through the plexus could mod the crewships when piloting, but this isnt the case. only the railjack health transfers and the hyper strike or any crit or damage mods dont transfer (as displayed in the video below)

Crewships buff comes at the cost of Iron clad

with the plexus, not only do the modifications not transfer, nor their buffed stats, if you put on raider matrix you cant place the ironclad matrix which inturns lowers the health of the railjack and its survivability making the railjack get more elemental procs and not last as long. sure you can speed around faster than the railjack, but that damage is so low the guns might as well have been pulled from the archwing itself, and the railjack dies anyways.

 

Conclusion: Buff the archwing in all modes, don't nerf anything.

Here is a common issue I have been finding with developers in games, they focus so much on what the player base is using and find the most used item and nerf it. this is survivors bias. The devlopers says,"if the players are only using this weapon everyone must be doing something wrong if they aren't using this item" but instead these are the weapons that are successful in the challenges in the game instead, the developers should make weapons similar in effect and rather than nerfing the good ones that way the player base has a variety to use to complete the challenges. I remember when daggers were one of the best weapons in the game, by themsleves ineffective, but with finishers and covert lethality they could one shot everything, this was removed in update 26 ending the use of daggers in warframe. also prior to update 26 with the kuva liches melees whips could span an entire map, but had low damage making low level farming nice, instead they nerfed the range to catered to the fortnite players worried about thier kill count, as if they had a quota in a co-op power fantasy game. what should have happened in nothing been changed about these weapons and whips and daggers may still be used today. the power behind both the dagger and the whips added variety to the game warframe.

Please buff the archwing in all missions make them behave like a "flying warframe". buff the crewships to be a railjack equivelent rather than an inferior copycat.

the video as promised: Archwing still sucks - YouTube

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

I use the Onlsaught Matrix and gear my RJ weapons to do crit and recover shields, then boost damage when shields are high.

I think I'll be a'ight.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Is this supposed to be focusing on archwings or crewships? Because they aren't the same in any capacity.

If you're getting shredded in POE, quit using Itzal then. Itzal isn't made for taking damage. Archwings will get a revision, have patience. Do not buff crewships just because we are piloting them. They are not our vehicles, they are property of the Grineer.

If whips had map ranging attack, um yes NERF the hell out of that, it clearly was a bug or error.

Archwings should never be able to kill a crewship, that defeats the entire purpose of using an interceptor craft for actual space fighting. Archwings themselves also shouldn't be very effective against fighters either. Their abilities are suited for slower moving targets, not the evasion of a space fighter.

This thread is just a rant, not even actual feedback about the supposed topic.

[(XBOX)Vamma Takayn]

On 2021-05-02 at 2:33 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Is this supposed to be focusing on archwings or crewships? Because they aren't the same in any capacity.

If you're getting shredded in POE, quit using Itzal then. Itzal isn't made for taking damage. Archwings will get a revision, have patience. Do not buff crewships just because we are piloting them. They are not our vehicles, they are property of the Grineer.

If whips had map ranging attack, um yes NERF the hell out of that, it clearly was a bug or error.

Archwings should never be able to kill a crewship, that defeats the entire purpose of using an interceptor craft for actual space fighting. Archwings themselves also shouldn't be very effective against fighters either. Their abilities are suited for slower moving targets, not the evasion of a space fighter.

This thread is just a rant, not even actual feedback about the supposed topic.

i think u miss understand the premise of warframe. which is to be a power fantasy where there is choice. if your paying attention, this is a critique of over all space combat. in order to address archwings, you have to compare it to all forms of combat. i answered this if you read. i have a giant BA railjack that can destroy the crewship, the crewship can kill a railjack, yet a crewship cant kill another crewship? or bombardment from forward cannons and archwing fire cant kill a crewship? yet, bombardment from little corpus fighters and their crewships can kill a rail jack? thats the delema the devs are all about balanced game play, but there is balance from one direction making the space combat feel forced in a direction. you have to board to kill via warframe, no an archwing cant kill, you have to use forward artillary, no turrets dont work on crewships. if you play any space combat game starwars battle front 2005, or 2015, elite dangerous, you can choose any item and make kills while in combat and its that freedom of gameplay that makes these games amazing. when you are shooting a crewship with turrets and its health hits zero and it doesnt blow up its not a good feeling and your like what was all that for? all items useable in game should be able to make kills to any other usable item, otherwise there is no benefit to using those items. and the vid link demostrates each of these critiques with undeniable facts.  with respect to the archwings, if you want the archwings to get a revision there has to be something revised about them. the archwing have literally warframe abilities each one unique to thier craft. its like saying dont worry that a warframe sucks its gonna get a revision. noone liked it when the kuva liches could up and kill you when you got the order wrong. this is the same premise. an archwing shouldnt get up and 1 shot bc it was flying over, espeacially if you fully modded it to be able to take the hit. dont pass someone off addressing the issues of archwing, say there is no issue, and then follow up with wait for the revision. just address it and revise it. yes, itzal shouldnt get 1 shot, by lvl 2 grineer in poe, no archwing should. and yes i dont use itzal bc of this, but i should be able to choose it without the worry of a grineer literally lower level.  a player should be upset if you had to have Inaros prime to survive "mantle" on earth on the reg star chart. likewise the player shouldnt have to only choose amesha to survive in the planes of eidolon. likewise in railjack a player should not have to choose the railjack, amesha, or the crewship, each one should be equally effective in mission, and the crewships which you have to capture should be significantly worth it espeacially if it kills a railjack.

[(XBOX)Vamma Takayn]

On 2021-05-02 at 12:09 PM, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

I use the Onlsaught Matrix and gear my RJ weapons to do crit and recover shields, then boost damage when shields are high.

I think I'll be a'ight.

thats not the point of the post. this is a critique to space combat. there are items in-game to buff usable items that allow for choice, but the post outlines that there is no choice involved. its like DE forcing you to fight in space thier way. you have to kill a crewship with artillary cannon (although u might not have this), or you HAVE to board the crewship. i cant shoot it from the outside and bombard it to death and watch a crewships health reach zero. You HAVE to use the railjack for kills, you cant choose the crewship or the arch wing to be effective in battles, even if you buff them. although they added mods to clearly alott for these choices, but its a gimmic. you can buff them, but they still do nothing. its like why bother adding it in if we werent really going to have it?

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)Vamma Takayn said:

thats not the point of the post. this is a critique to space combat. there are items in-game to buff usable items that allow for choice, but the post outlines that there is no choice involved. its like DE forcing you to fight in space thier way. you have to kill a crewship with artillary cannon (although u might not have this), or you HAVE to board the crewship. i cant shoot it from the outside and bombard it to death and watch a crewships health reach zero. You HAVE to use the railjack for kills, you cant choose the crewship or the arch wing to be effective in battles, even if you buff them. although they added mods to clearly alott for these choices, but its a gimmic. you can buff them, but they still do nothing. its like why bother adding it in if we werent really going to have it?

I'm always boarding Corpus crewships since their shields are bothersome for artillery, but I have no trouble with Grineer crewships being subject to F.A.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)Vamma Takayn said:

i think u miss understand the premise of warframe. which is to be a power fantasy where there is choice. if your paying attention, this is a critique of over all space combat. in order to address archwings, you have to compare it to all forms of combat. i answered this if you read. i have a giant BA railjack that can destroy the crewship, the crewship can kill a railjack, yet a crewship cant kill another crewship? or bombardment from forward cannons and archwing fire cant kill a crewship? yet, bombardment from little corpus fighters and their crewships can kill a rail jack? thats the delema the devs are all about balanced game play, but there is balance from one direction making the space combat feel forced in a direction. you have to board to kill via warframe, no an archwing cant kill, you have to use forward artillary, no turrets dont work on crewships. if you play any space combat game starwars battle front 2005, or 2015, elite dangerous, you can choose any item and make kills while in combat and its that freedom of gameplay that makes these games amazing. when you are shooting a crewship with turrets and its health hits zero and it doesnt blow up its not a good feeling and your like what was all that for? all items useable in game should be able to make kills to any other usable item, otherwise there is no benefit to using those items. and the vid link demostrates each of these critiques with undeniable facts.  with respect to the archwings, if you want the archwings to get a revision there has to be something revised about them. the archwing have literally warframe abilities each one unique to thier craft. its like saying dont worry that a warframe sucks its gonna get a revision. noone liked it when the kuva liches could up and kill you when you got the order wrong. this is the same premise. an archwing shouldnt get up and 1 shot bc it was flying over, espeacially if you fully modded it to be able to take the hit. dont pass someone off addressing the issues of archwing, say there is no issue, and then follow up with wait for the revision. just address it and revise it. yes, itzal shouldnt get 1 shot, by lvl 2 grineer in poe, no archwing should. and yes i dont use itzal bc of this, but i should be able to choose it without the worry of a grineer literally lower level.  a player should be upset if you had to have Inaros prime to survive "mantle" on earth on the reg star chart. likewise the player shouldnt have to only choose amesha to survive in the planes of eidolon. likewise in railjack a player should not have to choose the railjack, amesha, or the crewship, each one should be equally effective in mission, and the crewships which you have to capture should be significantly worth it espeacially if it kills a railjack.

Guessing English isn't your first language? Sentences, spacing and grammar are really lacking here.

To address some of your not points, archwings are not fighters in space. They are not going to output the same amounts of damage that an actual space fighter is going to output. Their offensive abilities are not geared toward use against fighters, they are geared toward smaller targets in a more confined space setting. The archguns are not built for truly taking on fighters either, some of them are just too slow against them. Archguns should also not be able to kill a crewship either, a ship like that is not going to be taken out by small arms fire, which is essentially what the archguns are in railjack missions.

Archwings will get a revision, we already know this. This will happen when the modular forms are introduced. You clearly have no patience to wait for it.

Your "comparisons" to SW: Battlefront 2 and Elite Dangerous do not hold water. Battlefront 2 doesn't have the same kind of space combat that Warframe has. You're meant to be expendable in that game if you don't play smart. Elite Dangerous, no the hell not you can just equip any weapon and get a kill in space. You don't build your ship up properly or learn to fly better, you get your ass blown out of space.

In the open worlds, you are not going to get 1 shot out of the sky by a level 2 Grineer. If you are, you clearly haven't modded for anything and you must be hovering right in front of them for them to shoot you. About the only archwing I fly is Elytron and I have no issues staying alive in the open worlds. Railjack missions though can gank me more there. No forma in my wings at all, so part of it is on me.

12 hours ago, (XBOX)Vamma Takayn said:

 although they added mods to clearly alott for these choices, but its a gimmic. you can buff them, but they still do nothing. its like why bother adding it in if we werent really going to have it?

Mods (formerly avionics) are not going to buff an ENEMY ship just because we take the wheel of it. They are designed for OUR spacecraft, not the ENEMIES spacecraft.

[Aesthier]

On 2021-04-30 at 3:02 PM, (XBOX)Vamma Takayn said:

Archwing Still Sucks

 

Well at least it isn't alone...now Railjack does too.

[(PSN)c1234567890alvi]

Archwings alongside companions has always been kind of imbalanced and smth the community has been talking about intensively.
In the case of Archwing: DE has announced modular Archwings around the time Railjack arrived, but it has kinda become a case of "simply forgotten about it".

I know that only when new content is announced, the game gets alive again, but the bigger the game gets, the more old content and promises are forgotten. And Archwing rework is unfortunately one of those...