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Kuva Bramma needs to be buffed back up.


RS219
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I get MR5s were running everywhere with this thing and steamrolling the game early on, but instead of doing the logical thing and locking this thing in the foundry with Mastery Rank, the Bramma's ammo pool got nerfed into the ground where 1) ONLY SNIPER DROPS work for it and ONLY GIVE ONE ARROW AT A TIME.

Five arrows and it's out. Now look at the Lenz, which has the same low ammo pool BUT has one extra arrow (total six) and more importantly comes with INNATE AMMO MUTATION.

Please give the Kuva Bramma innate ammo mutation, or buff its capacity back up to 10 or something.

Just prevent low MRs from being able to claim the damn thing from the foundry until they're MR15 or something.

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Honestly I thought it had innate ammo mutation...

I haven't had an issue with it though. Ammot mutation works pretty well as an exilus option. Flight speed would be the only other mod worth adding IMO but even then I don't really find it necessary on Kuva Bramma.

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Just now, Myscho said:

Wait, what ??? Kuva Bramma is seriously available at MR 5 ? 😮

All lich weapons can be used at any Mastery Rank. As long as you're able to kill the lich to obtain the weapon you can use it. So if MR 5 is the requirement for liches then it is available to MR 5 players.

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8 minutes ago, RS219 said:

Five arrows and it's out. Now look at the Lenz, which has the same low ammo pool BUT has one extra arrow (total six) and more importantly comes with INNATE AMMO MUTATION.

It also takes many times longer to charge, has just one explosion (no bomblets) and a delay on its AoE damage.

Asking for a Bramma buff and citing its weakness, without citing the weaknesses of the weapon you're comparing to, is a bit disingenuous.

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Uhm.. And what exactly is different with a MR 15 steamrolling the star chart? If the MR 5 managed to bring down his lich he earned the weapon. As simple as that. 

For ammo buffing.. Why? 5 arrows and mutation is more than enough. Flight speed on the Bramma is pretty pointless so it's more or less the only useful option anyway. And even with 10 arrows you'll still need it. 

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I didn't have an issue with the old Bramma. It was/is just a symptom of most guns being "bad" and it was/is one of the few that people actually fire with. Even back then I easily outdamaged Bramma users with a Kuva Ogris and/or abilities. That being said people just jumped on the hype train of a cool, good gun/bow being newly released. A fully built Bramma still shreds and has no ammo issues if you don't spam randomly and actually kill enemies and still you see it far less.

Long story short: would I mind a Bramma buff? No, I don't really care. Will it happen?

Smirk Reaction GIF by nikvi

Edited by (PSN)Deeceem
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16 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

It also takes many times longer to charge, has just one explosion (no bomblets) and a delay on its AoE damage.

Asking for a Bramma buff and citing its weakness, without citing the weaknesses of the weapon you're comparing to, is a bit disingenuous.

Your point being? I could just as much say the Bramma is faster to hit 0 and reflexively swap weapons on, and how Lenz comes with a cold proc AoE which you yourself conveniently forgot to cite.

I'm arguing about the ammo mechanics, don't be disingenuous yourself and drag their very different damage stat distributions and setups into the mix.

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25 minutes ago, (XBOX)Helverin said:

Uhm.. And what exactly is different with a MR 15 steamrolling the star chart? If the MR 5 managed to bring down his lich he earned the weapon. As simple as that. 

For ammo buffing.. Why? 5 arrows and mutation is more than enough. Flight speed on the Bramma is pretty pointless so it's more or less the only useful option anyway. And even with 10 arrows you'll still need it. 

The difference is the MR15 is still steamrolling the star chart, but with just as if not more OP weapons that never got the nerf bat by virtue of not being overused by literally everyone at the time thanks to the lack of MR restrictions.

And yes, the MR5 brought down the lich, the Bramma's still in the foundry. Just delayed on being clickable.

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6 minutes ago, RS219 said:

Your point being? I could just as much say the Bramma is faster to hit 0 and reflexively swap weapons on, and how Lenz comes with a cold proc AoE which you yourself conveniently forgot to cite.

I'm arguing about the ammo mechanics, don't be disingenuous yourself and drag their very different damage stat distributions and setups into the mix.

The other bow worth comparing Kuva Bramma to, the Proboscis Cernos, also does not have innate ammo mutation right?

Personally I'm of the mind that, since the Proboscis Cernos was released it is almost universally better than Kuva Bramma. It doesn't do as much damage but it is simply more useful as a weapon IMO. 

But anyway my point is, two of the three AOE high damage bows do not have innate ammo mutation. Equipping an ammo mutation mod is pretty easy to do so personally I don't think this should be changed.

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6 minutes ago, RS219 said:

Lenz comes with a cold proc AoE which you yourself conveniently forgot to cite.

The cold proc exists because of Lenz's delayed explosion, so it's not really a strength to be considered, as it's only a way to prevent the weakness from making Lenz unusable.

Bramma is much faster than Lenz, so Bramma already has something that Lenz doesn't. Why take away the strengths of Lenz then?

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il y a 14 minutes, (XBOX)Helverin a dit :

 If the MR 5 managed to bring down his lich he earned the weapon. As simple as that. 

Yeah, if you ignore the fact they probably just got sherpa'd by friends/clanmates and probably did nothing but stab the Lich when it gets downed by the hellfire of his teammates.

 

That's the one thing I dislike with the Lich system. It's supposed to be a "nemesis", but you can literaly go public and let your teammates drill it down for you. Even the "difficulty" is a joke. Sometimes I bring some guns modded specificaly for my Lich (ex: Lvl 5, Weak to Blast, Immune to Viral/Corro, Resist Slash/Heat) and as I type in chat to inform my team of my Lich's weaknesses/resists, I look up and see the first health bar deplete in seconds as they shove their melee weapon up it's Void.

There isn't much to be proud of when I'm not even the one who took out my Lich.

 

------------------------------

On topic now. 

I personnaly think that if the Bramma has an ammo problem, then it's simply that you do not wish to consider the various options the game has to offer. From the Ammo Case Precept mod that adds both Max Ammo and a universal ammo conversion, to the fact the Bramma can reach up to 80 Mod Capacity, which allows you to easely fit any of the existing Ammo Conversion Mod compatible with it. Not to mention that those same mods are also Exilus mods, which is once again very easy to fit in your build once you've put a couple forma on a Kuva weapon. 

 

So no, I don't think the Bramma needs an ammo buff, as it was a way for DE to balance it. The fact that it can already be fixed by means we had before the weapon even came out tells me this problem is far from game breaking.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Blade_Wolf_16:
vor 41 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)Helverin:

 If the MR 5 managed to bring down his lich he earned the weapon. As simple as that. 

Yeah, if you ignore the fact they probably just got sherpa'd by friends/clanmates and probably did nothing but stab the Lich when it gets downed by the hellfire of his teammates.

 

That's the one thing I dislike with the Lich system. It's supposed to be a "nemesis", but you can literaly go public and let your teammates drill it down for you. Even the "difficulty" is a joke. Sometimes I bring some guns modded specificaly for my Lich (ex: Lvl 5, Weak to Blast, Immune to Viral/Corro, Resist Slash/Heat) and as I type in chat to inform my team of my Lich's weaknesses/resists, I look up and see the first health bar deplete in seconds as they shove their melee weapon up it's Void.

There isn't much to be proud of when I'm not even the one who took out my Lich.

True, I'm not ignoring it I just don't wanted to start a discussion about carries. But even then baby excal had to put some effort to gather the requiem mods and then they are rewarded with an okaish bow. I mean at MR 5 you can enter the Ignis meta. That's not much better. 

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Posted (edited)

You know what... You are completely right.... I agree 100%.... But Im against buffing the Bramma..

.mostly because whether you are MR5 or MR20 the thing is extremely Degenerate to use....

Edited by Lutesque
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Posted (edited)

... I only agree with the change when Kuva Bramma becomes weaker than Lenz AND Probo-Cernos combined.

Otherwise... no... Maybe you should use it less frequently, perhaps? Its a thing that usually helps with ammo shortage...

Edited by Uhkretor
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7 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

Otherwise... no... Maybe you should use it less frequently, perhaps? Its a thing that usually helps with ammo shortage...

It's been a while since I used the Bramma but I distinctly remember testing it after the Nerf and discovered that Ammo Restores bypass the Single Arrow Limit part of the Nerf.... Even the Small Restores all 5 Arrows in a single Pulse....

In essence for a subset of players this Nerf literally has no effect on their Experience and that's the thing that bugged me the most about the change.... Although I can't say it's pointless.... Generally speaking a Dev merely needs to say that it's Nerfed in order to get some players to stop using it even if they forget to actually impliment that in the Hotfix....

In this case most players might not even know that Restores bypass the limit so they will use it less by default.... Or in my case... Not at all (I needed an AoE weapon for my Dashwire build)

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, RS219 said:

Your point being? I could just as much say the Bramma is faster to hit 0 and reflexively swap weapons on, and how Lenz comes with a cold proc AoE which you yourself conveniently forgot to cite.

I'm arguing about the ammo mechanics, don't be disingenuous yourself and drag their very different damage stat distributions and setups into the mix.

My point being that you're asking for the removal of what is essentially the Bramma's one weakness, while not telling the whole story when using other weapons to back up your assertion. "Bramma has this weakness, but the Lenz doesn't!" No, but it has other weaknesses.

My point wasn't to measure every aspect of the Bramma and Lenz to see if Bramma could do with a buff. If it were my point, I would've mentioned that Bramma also has:

  • a larger AoE
  • less damage falloff
  • 4x the status chance of the Lenz
  • a better crit multiplier
  • better base damage (150 more on the shot, about 180 more on the AoE)
  • additional customizable element damage
  • 10 more maximum drain points

And while sure the Lenz has some advantages over the Bramma (the Cold proc like you mention*, one more max ammo, ammo mutation, and a higher crit chance), the Bramma's strengths far outweigh the Lenz'. That's the kind of stuff I would've mentioned, but doing a full-on comparison wasn't my point.

My point is that you can't just cherry-pick certain aspects of a weapon when demanding a buff, you need to look at the whole weapon. And if you're comparing weapons to justify your reasoning, you can't take the weakness of one weapon and the strength of another and reasonably claim they should be equalized in the otherwise-stronger weapon's favor. You're asking for the removal of the Bramma's one significant weakness based on one of the Lenz' strengths, and the result would a Bramma that's just better than the Lenz in virtually every way, having no trade-off for its power where other weapons would have such a trade-off, invalidating the Lenz as an option.

 

*and let's be honest that proc is really only useful for band-aiding its explosion delay. Abysmal status chance and slow fire rate means you'd never use Lenz for Status play or CO priming.

Edited by SenorClipClop
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