Unpopular Opinion: Rolling Guard + Decaying Dragon Key + Shield Gate Meta is Dumb and Shouldn't Exist

[(XBOX)Roaring Toad]

If the interaction ever gets removed it will negatively impact the health of the game more than if it were to stay. The shield gate interaction is the only thing keeping 90% of the warframes even viable in SP. The interaction itself only has value in SP as well since the level of survivability it offers is only necessary in SP, you're perfectly fine anywhere else in terms of survivability. I'd argue warframe survivability as a whole should be looked at rather than a niche interaction that even then isn't even that strong as many frames will need to spam non-stop to avoid being 1-shot. Outside a very select few frames, shieldgating isn't that strong, it's just the only option available to them to survive. Face-tanking falls off hard and fast in SP and even the warframes who can do it well get outpaced by enemy damage quickly. The shieldgate interaction is fine, SP and overall frame survivability within it is not. 

[Leqesai]

On 2022-03-28 at 9:19 AM, (XBOX)Roaring Toad said:

If the interaction ever gets removed it will negatively impact the health of the game more than if it were to stay. The shield gate interaction is the only thing keeping 90% of the warframes even viable in SP. The interaction itself only has value in SP as well since the level of survivability it offers is only necessary in SP, you're perfectly fine anywhere else in terms of survivability. I'd argue warframe survivability as a whole should be looked at rather than a niche interaction that even then isn't even that strong as many frames will need to spam non-stop to avoid being 1-shot. Outside a very select few frames, shieldgating isn't that strong, it's just the only option available to them to survive. Face-tanking falls off hard and fast in SP and even the warframes who can do it well get outpaced by enemy damage quickly. The shieldgate interaction is fine, SP and overall frame survivability within it is not. 

This is simply not accurate.

Helminth exists so every frame has viable survivability options now outside of exploiting dragon key shield gating.

Everyone should mentally process losing the interaction because at some point it may be corrected. When it does plenty of people will be upset but at the end of the day the interaction is exploitive and should be removed.

[Doomelf]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Helminth exists so every frame has viable survivability options now outside of exploiting dragon key shield gating.

Everyone should mentally process losing the interaction because at some point it may be corrected. When it does plenty of people will be upset but at the end of the day the interaction is exploitive and should be removed.

Shield gating is needed for endurance only. On star chart you don't even need to mod for survivability if you play right. Steel Path can be done easily with your typical face tank build everyone likes to use, at least for a few hundred levels. Though, shield gating will always be superior as it also frees up at least 2 slots better spent on mods that actually help your build. The key isn't needed to make full use of shield gating. It's just a bonus and a faster way to restore your shields. The main survivability comes from CC, movement and killing enemies fast. I for one don't have any issues staying alive, even with a partial invulnerability period, when utilizing those.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, Doomelf said:

Shield gating is needed for endurance only. On star chart you don't even need to mod for survivability if you play right. Steel Path can be done easily with your typical face tank build everyone likes to use, at least for a few hundred levels. Though, shield gating will always be superior as it also frees up at least 2 slots better spent on mods that actually help your build. The key isn't needed to make full use of shield gating. It's just a bonus and a faster way to restore your shields. The main survivability comes from CC, movement and killing enemies fast. I for one don't have any issues staying alive, even with a partial invulnerability period, when utilizing those.

I can see that for sure. Unfortunately endurance has never been within the parameters of intended balance. Because it exists outside the scope of game balance exploits such as the dragon key might be needed for some people, but that furthers the issue. People are using the dragon key to get farther in endurance than intended.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

Oh hey, I haven't seen this thread in ages. Good job digging it up!

Shield gating and Decaying DK should both be reworked - the latter to make its negatives a downside instead of an upside (because duh it's a dragon key); and the former because it rewards having as low of a max shield as possible, which goes against all semblance of game balance logic and making frames like Grendel and Valkyr the best shield tanks.

[Doomelf]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

People are using the dragon key to get farther in endurance than intended.

There is no concrete limit to how far is intended for players to go in endurance. One can only assume, since such high level enemies exist and have existed for so many years, it's intentional for players to encounter them, at least for those who seek the challenge of going that far. Even without the key, they will still be able to achieve that.

As someone who does Steel Path Disruption level caps regularly, I can speak from experience the key isn't the reason I can go that far. Utilizing constant CC, movement and dealing with enemies swiftly has been, for the most part, what has kept me alive. I for one don't rely on recovering all shields with a single ability cast. Whenever that's happened, it's been from not having enemies attacking me for a short time as they've been CC'd, killed or otherwise dealt with. The key is convenience and acts as "training wheels" for those who can't keep themselves alive reliably, without fully recovering shields by casting just one ability.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

1 hour ago, Doomelf said:

The key is convenience

And that's why it should be nerfed.

Quote

Remember, each Key has debilitating effects on Warframes

[Sakatchi]

You can always not use it. Easy huh?

But you're actually wrong, the easiest non effort invulnerability is blocking. With a melee weapon and a button click you can just not take damage. You can even do this while using all of the dragon keys.

Wild right?

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Sakatchi said:

the easiest non effort invulnerability is blocking.

It's not invulnerability.  Some attacks damage through it.  It doesn't block status at all.  Some CC effects ignore it.  And even against the things it does protect, the  angle it does so is limited to 60 degrees or less for most weapons.

We also can't block our own self-staggers, although that's an amusing thought.

Maybe more importantly than any of that, as soon as we attack with a melee weapon (or any other weapon) blocking protection is gone.   It's mainly a delaying action, meant to allow us to get into melee range, where we can reduce incoming damage by killing things. 

Shield gating allows actual invulnerability and weapon damage application at the same time.