Railjack Open World?

[(NSW)Houllough]

I think thats a pretty good idea but theres one problem, would there be a hub like cetus or you just enter it?

[Spoldozer]

I'd think if there were a hub it'd be a relay (for PC it's Kronia and Orcus that have Dry Docks) or clan dojo. Basically any place where you would access a railjack via dry dock.

[TARINunit9]

32 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Or, for example, DE could build an "open world" that's a bunch of connected smaller zones that need to be traveled to using a jump. Then they can have many, many, small clusters of content for the player to wander around in without needing to expand the play area itself. Distant clusters of content can be billboarded or LODd to still be visible at a distance, or just be points in space. See that Grineer prison asteroid over there? You can jump to it and find a place to infiltrate to do a rescue. That cluster of Orokin towers? That Derelict ship?

Dynamic loading. Which DE have been avoiding for the last eight years. Presumably because of their precious peer2peer mandate

So I repeat myself: Could they do it? Of course. Do I actually trust them to do it? No

[PublikDomain]

39 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Dynamic loading. Which DE have been avoiding for the last eight years. Presumably because of their precious peer2peer mandate

So I repeat myself: Could they do it? Of course. Do I actually trust them to do it? No

Dynamic? No, like in Call of the Tempestarii where you jump from scene to scene in the same mission. The mission has the box collecting, Vala's ship, appearance of the Tempestarii, a jump to a new zone, and then an interior Spy mission before it gets to the mission complete screen. ETA: Which is only there IMO to give players a place to take a break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKdOPRqdBWE&t=386s

Or like jumping between normal missions but with a different coat of paint, cutting out the nav console and relying more on aligning the ship to a destination and jumping over to it. Like how Star Citizen's quantum travel works: the pilot aligns the ship to a distant destination, the engines spool up for a few seconds, and then the pilot jumps the ship. It's very fluid and there are no hard cuts or loading screens. Railjack already does something similar, though it uses a selection from the nav console and the transition is a more opaque effect. With a few tweaks Railjack's area-to-area travel could be just as fluid as Star Citizen's. Instead of choosing a mission from the console, you could choose it by aiming at distant POIs. Instead of treating each jump being a discrete mission, zones could be treated more like clusters of optional content that the player can engage with or abandon more naturally.

[TARINunit9]

19 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Dynamic? No, like in Call of the Tempestarii where you jump from scene to scene in the same mission. The mission has the box collecting, Vala's ship, appearance of the Tempestarii, a jump to a new zone, and then an interior Spy mission before it gets to the mission complete screen. ETA: Which is only there IMO to give players a place to take a break.

So, even more primitive than what I thought you were proposing, ok

20 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Or like jumping between normal missions but with a different coat of paint, cutting out the nav console and relying more on aligning the ship to a destination and jumping over to it.

If that's what OP was suggesting all along, I am 10,000,000% opposed to it in every way, shape, and form

[PublikDomain]

10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

So, even more primitive than what I thought you were proposing, ok

Just an example of one of the many ways DE could approach it. Make the maps bigger, make the players smaller, cut them up into zones with a travel in between like any old-school MMO, whatever. There aren't any technical reasons DE can't make the Railjack experience feel more "open world" when there are so many different techniques they can use to make it work.

10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

If that's what OP was suggesting all along, I am 10,000,000% opposed to it in every way, shape, and form

I don't think it is, but why would you be opposed to that to that degree? What makes clicking on nodes on the nav console so critically important to you?

ETA: OP seems to be suggesting something similar, in each Proxima is one "map" and new missions and events can dynamically spawn in, with travel between Proximas also having content like ambushes or pirate attacks. If it being one single map is a problem, then it can instead be a network of smaller zones with seamless travel between them. Same end result: Railjack can feel more like an open world.

[TARINunit9]

9 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't think it is, but why would you be opposed to that to that degree? What makes clicking on nodes on the nav console so critically important to you?

Let me answer that question with two other questions:

Do you enjoy Defense missions?

Now, do you enjoy Railjack Defense missions?

[PublikDomain]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Let me answer that question with two other questions:

Do you enjoy Defense missions?

Now, do you enjoy Railjack Defense missions?

I have literally no idea what these questions have to do with how you select a destination in Railjack... "Not really" to both? Could you explain what you mean better?

[TARINunit9]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

I have literally no idea what these questions have to do with how you select a destination in Railjack... "Not really" to both? Could you explain what you mean better?

Log in on Sunday. See that Nightwave's challenge is 20 waves of defense. What do you do?

Every single player in existence, all 30 million of us, are going to jump straight to the starchart. Three clicks and you're in the mission, then hold W for ten seconds and you're in wave one, shooting enemies.

Exactly ZERO of us want to pilot to a point of interest, get manage crew on turrets and forge, board two crewships, shoot down fighters, dodge torpedoes and ramsleds, fly over to the boarding hatch, wait for a loading zone -- all while Cy and captains are screaming at you -- and only THEN start the Defense mission that we came here for in the first place

I do NOT want the starchart replaced with a worse Railjack version of the same starchart. If you're going to have Railjack, it needs to be stuff that we can't do with the starchart. Now for some solidarity: this COULD include an "open world"/Free Roam map, if you can somehow convince me that DE wouldn't make a disaster of it. That's where all my pessimism earlier was coming from: I'm not opposed to the idea if you can get a quantum computer and new engine to run it, I just have zero faith in the execution under the current hardware and engine.

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

Log in on Sunday. See that Nightwave's challenge is 20 waves of defense. What do you do?

Every single player in existence, all 30 million of us, are going to jump straight to the starchart. Three clicks and you're in the mission, then hold W for ten seconds and you're in wave one, shooting enemies.

I do NOT want the starchart replaced with a worse Railjack version of the same starchart. If you're going to have Railjack, it needs to be stuff that we can't do with the starchart.

I think you misunderstood me... There's the starchart, and then there's the Railjack starchart. The one with the Proximas and their copy-pasted nodes from the console behind the pilot. I don't think anyone is saying to take out the regular starchart and replace it with a Railjack-only version, we're all talking about improving Railjack content alone.

9 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Exactly ZERO of us want to pilot to a point of interest, get manage crew on turrets and forge, board two crewships, shoot down fighters, dodge torpedoes and ramsleds, fly over to the boarding hatch, wait for a loading zone -- all while Cy and captains are screaming at you -- and only THEN start the Defense mission that we came here for in the first place

All of this sounds fun though? Ignoring the part about the Defense mission, since that's a misunderstanding on your part, this is what we already do in Railjack today. It's just that it's done in a very static way when it could be more dynamic and fluid.

3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Now for some solidarity: this COULD include an "open world"/Free Roam map, if you can somehow convince me that DE wouldn't make a disaster of it. That's where all my pessimism earlier was coming from: I'm not opposed to the idea if you can get a quantum computer and new engine to run it, I just have zero faith in the execution under the current hardware and engine.

They'd make a disaster out of it, for sure, but not because of technical problems. DE's engineers have improved the game enough over the years that I think anyone lacking faith in their capabilities either isn't paying much attention or is being overly judgemental. Warframe looks great and runs great and it always has thanks to DE's engineering team, which is pretty fantastic and has tackled larger issues several times in the past from supporting Archwing to open worlds to Railjack. DE's engineering team doesn't suck, it's their design/content team that's constantly dropping the ball and making poor decisions.

[Hypernaut1]

it could play like x4

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

This is what I thought they should have done from the beginning (with rail jack).

instead of an orbiter you have a rail jack that is in "safe space".  Then you can roam free space to start a mission or travel to a planet.  Traveling to planet puts you in an open world (more in line with destiny). from both places you can fast travel to a mission if necessary (like it normally works from navigation). 

It would definitely tie in all the content. 

But ya I don't expect DE to do that.

[rockscl]

hace 17 horas, Jax_Drades dijo:

So I had a thought, we've got grineer open world, corpus open world, infested open world, probably orokin open world with duviri. What if we had a Railjack Open World? ( I know this is done to death but I hope this is an interesting spin.)

Take the P.O.E. for a second, there is a cave system that leads under the barrier to a grineer camp, and we have the RJ open world function like that. The planets being the "open areas" and the junctions between planets acting as the "cave systems" leading to each new open world. 

Instead of selecting each new mission to take on each proxima, have it be a proximity system where Cy will let you know that you could exterminate a corpus vessel or a grineer weapons platform because it's "on the scanners" 

While going from planet to planet with the solar junctions, let there be a random chance event between derelicts to raid and pirates attacking with Cy again alerting the players to the option to stop and loot or continue for the derelicts, and fight or run from the pirates. Or just getting pulled from super speed by corpus or grineer interference.

It would take a little longer to go between each proxima, but the players wouldn't have to keep hopping into nav to go somewhere, but the option to use the nav is still there.

Please leave your thoughts in the comments below, I would love some feedback. :D

And now, the obvious demands to become real, but what if the game ends in a boring space faring simulator?, How are you gonna deal with this DE?

"Its wonderful to watch you wrestle with these dilemmas"

My grain of sand:

DE should consider making those "random" encounters not so random, but actually a persistent spawn whose location is factually/nearly impossible to find on purpose, however, the Nav Coordinates items could now start giving actually a close location where one can start searching, so the RJ will be facing random spawns until he finds the important, "Lost Ship" that Nav Coords where always supossed to be used for. 

[Spoldozer]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Log in on Sunday. See that Nightwave's challenge is 20 waves of defense. What do you do?

Every single player in existence, all 30 million of us, are going to jump straight to the starchart. Three clicks and you're in the mission, then hold W for ten seconds and you're in wave one, shooting enemies.

Exactly ZERO of us want to pilot to a point of interest, get manage crew on turrets and forge, board two crewships, shoot down fighters, dodge torpedoes and ramsleds, fly over to the boarding hatch, wait for a loading zone -- all while Cy and captains are screaming at you -- and only THEN start the Defense mission that we came here for in the first place

I do NOT want the starchart replaced with a worse Railjack version of the same starchart. If you're going to have Railjack, it needs to be stuff that we can't do with the starchart. Now for some solidarity: this COULD include an "open world"/Free Roam map, if you can somehow convince me that DE wouldn't make a disaster of it. That's where all my pessimism earlier was coming from: I'm not opposed to the idea if you can get a quantum computer and new engine to run it, I just have zero faith in the execution under the current hardware and engine.

Ok? You can take this pessimistic view to every mission. Exterminate? You're just killing a bunch of enemies. Interception? You're standing in a place, and making sure nothing else is standing in the same place. Capture? You're hitting one thing then pressing a button then leaving. Mobile Defense? Same arguments as Defense. This view you take to defense missions is no different than any other mission you can do instead. Sanctuary Onslaught? You're killing everything as fast as possible. Survival? You're watching a dial and making sure it doesn't go down faster than you can get it up.
I do admit, the beginning part of Corpus missions SHOULD be changed, but if you get rid of the entire part of going in your railjack and working your way through so you can get into the ship, then how is it any different than a normal Defense mission?

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Spoldozer said:

Ok? You can take this pessimistic view to every mission. Exterminate? You're just killing a bunch of enemies. Interception? You're standing in a place, and making sure nothing else is standing in the same place. Capture? You're hitting one thing then pressing a button then leaving. Mobile Defense? Same arguments as Defense. This view you take to defense missions is no different than any other mission you can do instead. Sanctuary Onslaught? You're killing everything as fast as possible. Survival? You're watching a dial and making sure it doesn't go down faster than you can get it up.

You've kind of missed my problem with it, because:

1 hour ago, Spoldozer said:

I do admit, the beginning part of Corpus missions SHOULD be changed, but if you get rid of the entire part of going in your railjack and working your way through so you can get into the ship, then how is it any different than a normal Defense mission?

THAT'S MY PROBLEM WITH IT. That's exactly what the developers did, and it's stupid. It shouldn't BE a Railjack mission if all it's going to be, is just a Railjack flying section with no ground combat followed by a ground Defense mission with no Railjack content.

In other words:

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

It's just that it's done in a very static way when it could be more dynamic and fluid.

 

[PublikDomain]

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

THAT'S MY PROBLEM WITH IT. That's exactly what the developers did, and it's stupid. It shouldn't BE a Railjack mission if all it's going to be, is just a Railjack flying section with no ground combat followed by a ground Defense mission with no Railjack content.

Not sure about others, but to me making Railjack more "open world" includes getting rid of these kinds of separated elements that are so worthless for gameplay. Corpus Railjack is more varied, but gameplay-wise it's much worse than Grineer Railjack which focuses more on the Railjack and exploring POIs. Railjack ought to go that direction with bite-sized encounters centered around POIs and the Railjack itself, and it ought to do that in as big a zone as possible so the player can wander around and get into trouble organically. Going into Railjack should be able to provide a long, unbroken session across many areas as the player explores and wanders around. It doesn't really matter if that means big, static, hand-crafted areas for each Proxima like the open worlds, or large dynamic zones like what we have now but larger and more dense, or a bunch of smaller connected zones that can be quickly traveled to, or so on.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Not sure about others, but to me making Railjack more "open world" includes getting rid of these kinds of separated elements that are so worthless for gameplay. Corpus Railjack is more varied, but gameplay-wise it's much worse than Grineer Railjack which focuses more on the Railjack and exploring POIs. Railjack ought to go that direction with bite-sized encounters centered around POIs and the Railjack itself, and it ought to do that in as big a zone as possible so the player can wander around and get into trouble organically. Going into Railjack should be able to provide a long, unbroken session across many areas as the player explores and wanders around. It doesn't really matter if that means big, static, hand-crafted areas for each Proxima like the open worlds, or large dynamic zones like what we have now but larger and more dense, or a bunch of smaller connected zones that can be quickly traveled to, or so on.

Yeah I've been so contrarian in this thread that it gets hard to keep track of what ideas I'm pessimistic about but agree with in theory, and which ones that I just outright oppose. I guess I'm... sorry about that? And agree with this comment specifically

[BloodKitten]

it COULD work on high end computers, assuming you get warframe players with new things as opposed to scalpers, but the engine might not handle it without optimizing it, and switch also holding it back to a degree.

also assuming DE will actually deliver on it without taking 2-5 years to fix it need to be taken into account.