Balance Conclave

[Hawkeye2404]

Improve balance by making all versions of a particular weapon or warframe have the same stats. Prime and Umbra warframes should have identical stats to their non-Prime/Umbra version. The same goes for weapons. Prime, Prisma, Syndicate (e.g. Rakta weapons from Red Veil), Vandal, etc. versions of a particular weapon should have identical stats to their normal versions, and Syndicate weapons should not have any of their Syndicate Radial Effects.

Alternatively instead of making the stats identical, just balance them so, for example, Excalibur Umbra is just as strong as the normal Excalibur. Their stats could be slightly different, like one having slightly more shields and the other having slightly more health, but one should not be better than the other - each should be of equal strength. Or the Prime version of a weapon could perhaps have more damage while the non-Prime version could have more fire-rate.

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye2404 said:

Alternatively instead of making the stats identical, just balance them so, for example, Excalibur Umbra is just as strong as the normal Excalibur. Their stats could be slightly different, like one having slightly more shields and the other having slightly more health, but one should not be better than the other - each should be of equal strength. Or the Prime version of a weapon could perhaps have more damage while the non-Prime version could have more fire-rate.

WHOOS WHOOSH! IT'S ALREADY DONE! (Mostly)

Currently in conclave all variants of a weapon are balanced in such a way that makes them sidegrades to each other. 

For example:

1) Prime frames are a bit tankier than their normal counterparts but lose 0.1 mobility in exchange (*) while Excalibur Umbra and  Prime are exactly the same

2) Prime weapons usually feature better accuracy, increased fire rate, less recoil and slightly bigger mags in exchange for reduced damage and slightly slower reloads (*). Prisma, Wraith, Vandal and syndicate weapons work in a similar way.

3) Syndicate radial effects are disabled entirely. The only syndicate added effect working is because of a bug introduced in "The Old Blood" update (~1.5 years ago) which hasn't been fixed despite the sheer amount of documentation about it on the different relevant forums (Hi there, @[DE]Rebecca, @[DE]Megan, @[DE]Steve. Is it too much to ask you to let @[DE]joebuckdisable Stormpath or Telos Boltace from conclave? Being pulled and ragdolled by a high damaging weapon isn't fun, even less when landing out of the map)

And to go a bit further:

4) Status "chance" was removed and it's now 100% on pure elemental weapons (certain procs like toxin and viral have been disabled)

5) Critical "chance" has been removed too, "critical damage" was turned into "headshot multiplier" a stat that varies depending of the weapon's trigger type (1.2x for auto, 1.5 for semi auto and varies for snipers depending of zoom levels)

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(*) I think it's worth pointing that some outliers exist, specially on warframes where, due to unknown reasons, are a bit tankier than their normal counterparts with the same mobility or are a bit slower while their EHP is nearly the same. Same for weapons but the difference in these can be harder to notice (unless it's a blatant bug).

 

With that out of the way, there is still a lot of room for improvement, specially after years of PvE changes affecting conclave balance so i really hope that DE decides to rebalance weapon stats (like they did with the rework) to make it better.

[Hawkeye2404]

23 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

WHOOS WHOOSH! IT'S ALREADY DONE! (Mostly)

Currently in conclave all variants of a weapon are balanced in such a way that makes them sidegrades to each other. 

For example:

1) Prime frames are a bit tankier than their normal counterparts but lose 0.1 mobility in exchange (*) while Excalibur Umbra and  Prime are exactly the same

2) Prime weapons usually feature better accuracy, increased fire rate, less recoil and slightly bigger mags in exchange for reduced damage and slightly slower reloads (*). Prisma, Wraith, Vandal and syndicate weapons work in a similar way.

3) Syndicate radial effects are disabled entirely. The only syndicate added effect working is because of a bug introduced in "The Old Blood" update (~1.5 years ago) which hasn't been fixed despite the sheer amount of documentation about it on the different relevant forums (Hi there, @[DE]Rebecca, @[DE]Megan, @[DE]Steve. Is it too much to ask you to let @[DE]joebuckdisable Stormpath or Telos Boltace from conclave? Being pulled and ragdolled by a high damaging weapon isn't fun, even less when landing out of the map)

And to go a bit further:

4) Status "chance" was removed and it's now 100% on pure elemental weapons (certain procs like toxin and viral have been disabled)

5) Critical "chance" has been removed too, "critical damage" was turned into "headshot multiplier" a stat that varies depending of the weapon's trigger type (1.2x for auto, 1.5 for semi auto and varies for snipers depending of zoom levels)

-------

(*) I think it's worth pointing that some outliers exist, specially on warframes where, due to unknown reasons, are a bit tankier than their normal counterparts with the same mobility or are a bit slower while their EHP is nearly the same. Same for weapons but the difference in these can be harder to notice (unless it's a blatant bug).

 

With that out of the way, there is still a lot of room for improvement, specially after years of PvE changes affecting conclave balance so i really hope that DE decides to rebalance weapon stats (like they did with the rework) to make it better.

I did not notice the reduced mobility for Prime/Umbra warframes. I did not compare all the weapons though, and unfortunately the few that I did compare appeared at first to be upgrades instead of sidegrades. But after comparing some more weapons it does seem that most weapons are indeed sidegrades. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done. Thank you for informing me of this! I enjoy Conclave immensely and I hope it gets a proper rework one day.

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye2404 said:

I did not notice the reduced mobility for Prime/Umbra warframes. I did not compare all the weapons though, and unfortunately the few that I did compare appeared at first to be upgrades instead of sidegrades. But after comparing some more weapons it does seem that most weapons are indeed sidegrades. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done. Thank you for informing me of this! I enjoy Conclave immensely and I hope it gets a proper rework one day.

Yeah that's because the state of things has deteriorated since ~2018. Stats used to be pretty balanced before that.

Then the devs rebalanced things in PvE over time, but because PvP stats build on top of that and they often didn't bother to make the proper adjustments, we have this mess now.