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should pc get some exclusive skins?


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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Exclusives means that DE sells LESS bundles, and the third party company makes up for the cost because it's worth it to them.

But they already sell exclusive bundles for console platforms and are fine with this? And DE can't sell any fewer PC-exclusive bundles than they do now because, well, they don't sell the same PC-exclusive bundles. They can't possibly sell fewer than the zero they sell now.

36 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

And as I said, none of them offer their exclusive cosmetics to all PC players unconditionally, and since they are software storefronts independent from the hardware and OS platform, if they were to move to other platforms and take their store exclusives with them, which unlike their console counterparts they are free to do at any time, they would not be PC exclusives any more.

And yet this hasn't deterred DE or PC platforms in the past. The Discord pack aren't exclusive to launching the game through Discord's launcher or whatever it is, and the EGS weapon skin promo isn't exclusive to the EGS launcher either. Think of it this way: what does it matter if the content can only be viewed on one launcher or another? Surely the profit from selling the packs is what's most important. Customer retention is important, too, but what retention will you be getting if you offer nothing? Having exclusive packs at least gets people into your storefront and spending money there.

35 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Why the obsession with having things others can't have?

Why not just more skins for EVERYBODY?

Having no platform exclusives would be even better, but it is the way it is. If there are going to be platform exclusives, then there ought to be exclusives for every platform. PC gets left out of this entirely.

Edited by PublikDomain
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

 

Having no platform exclusives would be even better, but it is the way it is. If there are going to be platform exclusives, then there ought to be exclusives for every platform. PC gets left out of this entirely.

If people really want something pc exclusive beyond most tennogen, they could just bring back the Phased and Rubedo stuff through steam. Some of the few remaining weapon skins are trading in the hundreds of real money now, it's kind of ridiculous. 

And while they are at it fix them so I can turn off prime bits on my Phased Vauban skin...

 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

But they already sell exclusive bundles for console platforms and are fine with this? And DE can't sell any fewer PC-exclusive bundles than they do now because, well, they don't sell the same PC-exclusive bundles. They can't possibly sell fewer than the zero they sell now.

Yes, that's directly addressed in the quote. Console platforms are third party companies that actively seek out and pay for exclusives because its worth it to them. Without those companies there's no need for exclusives. They just don't need to happen. DE should not actively seek out companies that want exclusives just so that they can make things that a portion of their players can't have.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

And while they are at it fix them so I can turn off prime bits on my Phased Vauban skin...

At least this issue doesn't occur with Rhino Prime. Although I quite don't like the shoulder plates...they are a pain to fashion and don't blend in well with the shiny skin itself

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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8 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Yes, that's directly addressed in the quote. Console platforms are third party companies that actively seek out and pay for exclusives because its worth it to them. Without those companies there's no need for exclusives. They just don't need to happen. DE should not actively seek out companies that want exclusives just so that they can make things that a portion of their players can't have.

And Steam/EGS/etc aren't third party companies? Why wouldn't the same thing be worth it for them? And I agree that it'd be better if there weren't these kinds platform exclusives, but there are - and PC players are the only ones left out.

10 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

If people really want something pc exclusive beyond most tennogen, they could just bring back the Phased and Rubedo stuff through steam. Some of the few remaining weapon skins are trading in the hundreds of real money now, it's kind of ridiculous. 

And while they are at it fix them so I can turn off prime bits on my Phased Vauban skin...

And make them recolorable :(

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And yet this hasn't deterred DE or PC platforms in the past. The Discord pack aren't exclusive to launching the game through Discord's launcher or whatever it is, and the EGS weapon skin promo isn't exclusive to the EGS launcher either. Think of it this way: what does it matter if the content can only be viewed on one launcher or another? Surely the profit from selling the packs is what's most important. Customer retention is important, too, but what retention will you be getting if you offer nothing? Having exclusive packs at least gets people into your storefront and spending money there.

They are still conditional storefront exclusives, intended to benefit Discord and EGS, respectively. Neither negotiated their respective promotional deals to benefit the PC platform as a whole, only for themselves. The initiative lies with the storefront owners.

So again, who's going to negotiate for PC as a whole?

Edited by KnossosTNC
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

So again, who's going to negotiate for PC as a whole?

Why would this need to happen?

ETA: Maybe I misunderstood the question, but if I did it's the same answer as before: Steam and Epic could approach DE about exclusives, or it could be the other way around and DE could reach out to their reps within Steam/Epic/etc. and offer the same deal they have with console platforms. The benefits are obvious for every party: DE can sell bundles and make money, PC storefronts get a cut and get increased traffic from PC players hopping over to buy the bundles, and PC players finally get the equivalent to the console Obsidian/Jade/Opal sets.

Edited by PublikDomain
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Why would this need to happen?

Business. Otherwise, DE would benefit more from simply making the cosmetics available to all platforms. Exclusivity is first and foremost a business agreement.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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5 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Business. Otherwise, DE would benefit more from simply making the cosmetics available to all platforms. Exclusivity is first and foremost a business agreement.

And why is DE unable to approach Steam or Epic with this business proposal?

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9 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And why is DE unable to approach Steam or Epic with this business proposal?

Why would they want to? DE benefit much more from making such cosmetics available to all platforms. Again, the initiative lies with the storefronts, or anyone willing to make a deal and pay up front.

So again, who negotiates for PC as a whole?

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And Steam/EGS/etc aren't third party companies? Why wouldn't the same thing be worth it for them? And I agree that it'd be better if there weren't these kinds platform exclusives, but there are - and PC players are the only ones left out.

Well for one thing... Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are tech-giants, they have magnitudes more clout then most other companies, the only one that comes close is Steam and frankly owning the rights to PC tennogen already gives them most of the revenue the need out of Warframe.

And I don't know how much more I can stress "actively seeking". The difference is entirely "a company requesting and funding DE to make an exclusive for Warframe" vs "DE requesting a company to fund an exclusive for Warfame". The second one is putting the cart before the horse.

 

Anyway at this point it's all moot, as Knossos and others have pointed out, over the years there have already been plenty "not literally advertised as PC exclusive" PC exclusives, from the IAH Braton, to Steams Phased and Rubedo, to the Unreal Tournament EGS skins.

 

Edited by rapt0rman
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Why would they want to? DE benefit much more from making such cosmetics available to all platforms.

Finally something that makes sense. Though I don't think this is that big of a deal - after all DE would benefit much more from making the console skins available on all platforms as well, yet they were more than happy leaving them exclusive. These bundles are profitable enough on consoles that DE keeps making more of them. So making PC-equivalent skins for the PC platforms would be good for DE as well, because they currently make exactly $0 from PC-equivalent skins since they don't exist, and DE could make more than that $0 if they wanted. It's also an attractive deal for the platforms since they get a cut and some new users. And, as mentioned before, they've already done this kind of deal before with Discord back when Discord's marketplace still existed to clearly they were both OK with it.

28 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Well for one thing... Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are tech-giants, they have magnitudes more clout then most other companies, the only one that comes close is Steam and frankly owning the rights to PC tennogen already gives them most of the revenue the need out of Warframe.

Steam and Epic aren't tech giants??? Both companies are still worth billions. And why wouldn't they want more money and users?

28 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

And I don't know how much more I can stress "actively seeking". The difference is entirely "a company requesting and funding DE to make an exclusive for Warframe" vs "DE requesting a company to fund an exclusive for Warfame". The second one is putting the cart before the horse.

Well, the latter is just asking, and it seems to me like a pretty good deal. They've made and sold these packs many times in the past for consoles and there's a clear demand for them on PC. If it's enough of a success on consoles for DE to keep creating more bundles then it'd be a success on PC as well. And none of us have any idea what these agreements actually look like, so even if Sony/Microsoft are paying DE for these bundles, then if even Discord can afford it surely Steam and Epic can as well.

Edited by PublikDomain
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Posted (edited)
vor 22 Minuten schrieb PublikDomain:

Finally something that makes sense. Though I don't think this is that big of a deal - after all DE would benefit much more from making the console skins available on all platforms as well, yet they were more than happy leaving them exclusive.

I assume that you have read the comment below because you quoted it in one of your comments. I'm not sure that you fully grasp what an exclusivity deal is.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb KnossosTNC:

Exclusive cosmetics exist because platform owners pay for them. Who owns PC?

There's your answer.

 

 

vor 22 Minuten schrieb PublikDomain:

Steam and Epic aren't tech giants??? Both companies are still worth billions. And why wouldn't they want more money and users?

Hence the Epic exclusive skins. For the n-th time: Epic's platform isn't PC. Epic's platform is the Epic store. They don't benefit from you playing on Steam or with the standalone client, so they're not going to put up money to get you to play on Steam or with the standalone client. As far as Epic is concerned, if you don't play through the Epic store you might as well play on PlayStation.

Edited by Krankbert
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Steam and Epic have exclusives.

Exclusives in general are bad, other companies looking for exclusives is bad but inevitable, DE looking for exclusives is bad and pointlessly self-defeating.

 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Finally something that makes sense. Though I don't think this is that big of a deal - after all DE would benefit much more from making the console skins available on all platforms as well, yet they were more than happy leaving them exclusive. These bundles are profitable enough on consoles that DE keeps making more of them. So making PC-equivalent skins for the PC platforms would be good for DE as well, because they currently make exactly $0 from PC-equivalent skins since they don't exist, and DE could make more than that $0 if they wanted. It's also an attractive deal for the platforms since they get a cut and some new users. And, as mentioned before, they've already done this kind of deal before with Discord back when Discord's marketplace still existed to clearly they were both OK with it.

That's because the console manufacturers negotiated for their exclusivity, thus offsetting the lost benefit of making them available to all platforms. Again, exclusive cosmetics only exist because platform owners negotiated for them. Similarly, Discord negotiated their exclusive cosmetics for themselves, and presumably offset the lost benefits as well.

Sure, DE could make a decent cash from a storefront-agnostic PC exclusive pack... ...but they would make much more by making that pack available to all platforms altogether. To keep that exclusive, someone has to offset that, hence the necessity for exclusivity deals.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

I assume that you have read this because you quoted it in one of your comments.

I'm not sure that you fully grasp what an exclusivity deal is.

Of course I know. What I don't understand is why anyone thinks Steam or Epic would be any less interested in such an exclusivity deal than Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo or Discord who all have these bundles, or why DE would be any less interested in approaching either with the same kind of offer.

If Knossos is saying that DE is only motivated by profit and would rather make non-exclusive bundles, then they would never have created all these platform exclusives in the first place. Yet they did, so exclusivity deals must be OK with DE and the involved platforms.

If Knossos is saying that there's no reason for either party to be interested in this kind of deal, then I don't see how that can be the case when it hasn't been the case with 4 other  companies. There's a clear benefit for everyone involved: DE makes money on bundles, Steam/EGS/etc make money on bundles and get some more users, and PC players get some equivalent cosmetics. If there were no benefit then Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Discord would not have their bundles.

28 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

For the n-th time: Epic's platform isn't PC. Epic's platform is the Epic store. They don't benefit from you playing on Steam or with the standalone client, so they're not going to put up money to get you to play on Steam or with the standalone client. As far as Epic is concerned, if you don't play through the Epic store you might as well play on PlayStation.

This seems directly contradictory with:

28 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Hence the Epic exclusive skins.

If Epic isn't going to be interested in exclusive skins, why did they have a run of exclusive skins? To promote Warframe on EGS and get people to try their launcher, duh. Which is exactly what Steam-exclusive or EGS-exclusive skin bundle would do: draw in potential users, and get people to spend money on that storefront. Epic obviously isn't going to want an Epic bundle you can buy on Steam, they're going to want an Epic bundle you can only buy on EGS. And it doesn't matter if a user doesn't stick around, because you have to pay Epic to get the bundle. They've already made their money off you and potentially kept you as a future customer. This is identical to what has already happened in the past with the Discord skins on their old marketplace.

So if this deal has already happened in the past with Discord, why can't it happen with Steam or EGS?

21 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

That's because the console manufacturers negotiated for their exclusivity, thus offsetting the lost benefit of making them available to all platforms. Again, exclusive cosmetics only exist because platform owners negotiated for them. Similarly, Discord negotiated their exclusive cosmetics for themselves, and presumably offset the lost benefits as well.

A) Please provide your sources about these negotiations.

B) Why can't DE approach Steam or Epic with the same offer?

Edited by PublikDomain
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

A) Please provide your sources about these negotiations.

B) Why can't DE approach Steam or Epic with the same offer?

No need. It's standard business practice. Business talks and negotiations happen constantly on so many, many things. Hell, Sony even recently negotiated something as seemingly simple as platform parity for Resident Evil 8. These are platform owners, after all. They tend to want to control everything that goes on their platforms.

They could, but there is no incentive to. At the end of the day, the storefronts still have to offset the lost benefit. The ball is ultimately in their court.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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4 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

No need.

If you're going to make claims as if you have insider information about how DE negotiates with console platforms, then yes I think there's a need. Why should anyone listen to you when you have nothing to back up what you say?

3 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

It's standard business practice. Business talks and negotiations happen constantly on so many, many things.

So DE can approach Steam and Epic and negotiate this kind of bundle. It's standard business practice, right?

1 minute ago, KnossosTNC said:

They could, but there is no incentive to. At the end of the day, the storefronts still have to offset the lost benefit. The ball is ultimately in their court.

Why is having new users entering their marketplace not an incentive?

Why is having customers paying them through their storefront not an incentive?

And if there is no incentive, why did Discord reach the same kind of agreement and get exclusive Discord market skins?

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not all PC players are the same: some use Steam, other don't, some use Discord, other's don't... even PC exclusive skins would not necessarily be available to all PC players. with console, you're either on it or you're not, because you need an account to go online. 

either way, I'm OK with PC getting more skins, but really there's not as much incentive considering PC gets updates faster and can get discounted plat.

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Steam, epic etc already can get 'custom skins' for said platforms on pc...

I've said in the past that I'd like to see something custom for pc users who download the game directly from warframe.com, it seems to be the forgotten 'platform' when it comes to limited edition stuff sadly. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

If you're going to make claims as if you have insider information about how DE negotiates with console platforms, then yes I think there's a need. Why should anyone listen to you when you have nothing to back up what you say?

So DE can approach Steam and Epic and negotiate this kind of bundle. It's standard business practice, right?

Why is having new users entering their marketplace not an incentive?

Why is having customers paying them through their storefront not an incentive?

And if there is no incentive, why did Discord reach the same kind of agreement and get exclusive Discord market skins?

I did say "presumably." That said, it's easy to presume because that's how the gaming business is usually done. I highly doubt DE are any different. They don't seem like a radical, be-different-just-because-we-can lot.

They can, but again, I find that highly unlikely, because there is no business incentive to. As the old saying goes; "the bottom line is the bottom line." Baseline incentives should therefore assume that DE will gravitate towards a business move that maximizes revenue, i.e. making these packs universally available. It is the storefronts and platform owners who have to stop that, by signing exclusivity deals and offset that lost benefit. Again, that is why the ball is ultimately in their court.

Again, the bottom line is the bottom line. Businesses will gravitate towards decisions that generate more revenue, unless you offset that.

That's an incentive for the storefronts, but again, they will negotiate only for themselves, not for PC in general. That's what exclusivity deals are for.

Again, Discord played ball with DE and offset their lost benefit. That's how these deals always work.

Edited by KnossosTNC
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43 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Again, Discord played ball with DE and offset their lost benefit. That's how these deals always work.

And they both benefited. Discord didn't lose anything - or at least nothing that any of us will be able to prove - and instead gained increased attention and a cut of the revenue from allowing that bundle to be sold in their marketplace. And even if Discord had to pay something for it, they ultimately did because it there must have been an incentive for them to do so. There was also an incentive for DE to accept or make this offer, because they did.

47 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

They can, but again, I find that highly unlikely, because there is no business incentive to. As the old saying goes; "the bottom line is the bottom line." Baseline incentives should therefore assume that DE will gravitate towards a business move that maximizes revenue, i.e. making these packs universally available. It is the storefronts and platform owners who have to stop that, by signing exclusivity deals and offset that lost benefit. Again, that is why the ball is ultimately in their court.

The ball will ultimately end up in their court, sure, but DE hasn't passed it to them yet - at least as far as any of us know. And they should. The long-standing, unfulfilled player desire for these kinds of skins on PC, the potential for new and untapped non-plat cash sales, the increased attention for Warframe on these PC platforms, and the increased revenue and attention for the PC storefronts should make PC-platform exclusives attractive to DE and the related companies. Clearly these benefits are real, because DE continuously makes more of these packs. If this was not beneficial for DE and the related companies, then they would not make them. And while it makes sense for DE to be making universally-available skins like the Supporter bundles, these don't have the same types and number of benefits.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And they both benefited. Discord didn't lose anything - or at least nothing that any of us will be able to prove - and instead gained increased attention and a cut of the revenue from allowing that bundle to be sold in their marketplace. And even if Discord had to pay something for it, they ultimately did because it there must have been an incentive for them to do so. There was also an incentive for DE to accept or make this offer, because they did.

The ball will ultimately end up in their court, sure, but DE hasn't passed it to them yet - at least as far as any of us know. And they should. The long-standing, unfulfilled player desire for these kinds of skins on PC, the potential for new and untapped non-plat cash sales, the increased attention for Warframe on these PC platforms, and the increased revenue and attention for the PC storefronts should make PC-platform exclusives attractive to DE and the related companies. Clearly these benefits are real, because DE continuously makes more of these packs. If this was not beneficial for DE and the related companies, then they would not make them. And while it makes sense for DE to be making universally-available skins like the Supporter bundles, these don't have the same types and number of benefits.

The key here is that Discord negotiated their deal for themselves - and only for themselves. That's how these things work.

DE keep making these exclusive packs because the platform owners and storefronts keep negotiating for them. Exclusivity is as much about having things for yourself as it is denying them to your competitors. This is why they won't go for a storefront-agnostic deal. This is why you have yet to see the Discord pack or the Unreal Tournament pack on Steam, for example.

The truth is if DE really wanted make a storefront-agnostic PC exclusive cosmetics pack, they could do it in a heartbeat without signing any deals. I'm simply explaining why that hasn't happened yet; it's because they have no incentive to. Again, sure, they could make a decent amount of money out of it - but they could make much more money selling the same pack to all platforms. Remember, the bottom line is the bottom line.

That difference in revenue is why exclusivity deals exist; to offset that difference. This is why they only exist because storefronts and platform owners negotiated for them. So, again, who's going to negotiate for PC as a whole and offset that difference?

Edited by KnossosTNC
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