Raids will fail at this point (My opinion)

[Danielw8]

11 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

again it doesn't have to be stressful, warframe can offer some solid Raiding system while keeping the chill aspect IF and only if DE decides to fix the way we interact with enemies, I think people hate spy missions bcs its more like trying to Solve a Maze than going Solid Snake mode and infiltrate, Nobody want to do MATHS, and solve a puzzle, or be under the pressure of a freaking timer, what DE can do is make game mode around the Idea of chill without making the game Tedious, If the Lich system wasn't too punishing when it came out the community would love to play it.

the game doesn't have to be PVP or competitive like Dota or Apex, but a PvE competitive game mode with seasons Can Help this game keep a stable player count, and honesty if we have something like this in the future I'm down for it, but right now whats the point from doing the same extermination mission over and over..

i think  you dont understeand what i meant, my english is bad... Im not against raids, i love eidolons because you need to do a role in squad, and play well your role because you have limited time to do the mission. Yea its true, you can do eidolons alone, 2 players, 3 players or even with randoms you can carry them its fine, but the way you do with a proper squad is very different and rewards are much higher.

About spy, the pressure is minimal (and im talking about mid game players) is literally minimal, everyone is using wukong and evading lasers, and ciphers. In the worse case if you not want be meta, you literally can bullet jump with inaros trigger alarms, hack everythign manually and you still have a solid 20 seconds remaining for sure. Spy doesnt have maths, puzzle, hard mechanics or whatever and most of them are literally discover the shortcut and you are hacking the objetive in max 10 seconds

I not agree about lich, lich content are very popular since came out, you allways find people doing that, for many reasons but the most important is: very good rewards (meta weapons), doesnt feel the same with for example profit taker also have good rewards but is only popular when there is credit booster by the game.

I not want PVP in warframe honestly, i tried conclave and was a disaster, the balance, matchmaking and also the mini conclave community are not good. Its not DE fault honestly, competitive games requires a whole team for that and still having a big chance to fail

about "pve competitive" that means events with leaderboards witch we had one with OV event, and most of the player doesnt care that leaderboard ...

Again and resuming, Warframe is designed to be easy because warframe players want that.

I still remember people calling "bullet sponge" steel path enemies or fortuna enemies being "so hard" for players.

The only mission i had pressure and its weird they didnt nerf it, was grendel missions, since we need 2 sets, the first time was normal and the second time in steel path, the normal one with randoms and the second one with friends. And honestly was fun to do, we failed like 3 or 4 times in steel path but after that we sync stuff and was easy.

 

[ArmsForPeace84]

Anything that looks like a Destiny raid, I'm not engaging with. Been there, done that. There's a reason I barely touched Destiny 2 even when it went f2p.

This is too much the podcast game for me to want to pencil in a time to go online with three mates, all in sick gamer chairs and headsets, with our gamer fuel and our war faces on. And proceed to stand on this thing while someone else stands on another thing. That makes the mcguffin spawn and one party member grabs it and runs with it. Then our designated hitter can grab some enchanted hammer and gets in 2 or 3 swings, and the whole thing starts over.

If that was my thing, I'd be playing baseball. Or watching baseball.

[Sammonoske]

DE has an issue with rewarding the players adequately for their time. I wouldn't trust DE to design a raid that could take 30 minutes to an hour to finish and be rewarded with something more than just credit's, endo, and bad RNG.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Actually, the eidolon fights literally had roles for years. It wasn't until the meta was openly shared that players began attempting solo play. Even now, it's rare to see solo players or dual players goin at eidolons...again, unless they are very hardcore in the meta.

They never had roles in the sense that validates the requirement of a raid sized group. The fights just dont have raid mechanics. While roles were a thing, they were still highly optional, there were no dedicated spots that had to be relied on. Everyone in WF serves the role of dps, so all the roles really did was to help achieve max dps and the shortest TTK, hence why oberon and trinity were used, so you didnt run into lures dying or having to move away during emp discharges, both of which would increase TTK. You didnt have a tank for instance that had to be on his toes versus that very specific attack so he could also stay and hold aggro, you didnt have a tank requiring special positioning so the dps could dps freely through X-phase etc. The closest would probably oberon or harrow, but even there the difference is a trivial 30m travel or going into operator, so in the end those "roles" shave off a few seconds at best if even that.

Eidolons and bosses in general are bland compared to bosses of trinity games. Even when they do have mechanics it is all about self preservation for the player, no one in the group can really change anything for the other 3 in a real way. Which is why raids (and group play in general) are quite pointless since it puts no weight on the group except for damage output to take down the spongier sponge faster. And only reason to do normal group content is for faster rewards really. WF bosses are well designed for soloplay (although power creep has trivilized them), but for group play they are really really bad.

[SpicyDinosaur]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They never had roles in the sense that validates the requirement of a raid sized group. The fights just dont have raid mechanics. While roles were a thing, they were still highly optional, there were no dedicated spots that had to be relied on. Everyone in WF serves the role of dps, so all the roles really did was to help achieve max dps and the shortest TTK, hence why oberon and trinity were used, so you didnt run into lures dying or having to move away during emp discharges, both of which would increase TTK. You didnt have a tank for instance that had to be on his toes versus that very specific attack so he could also stay and hold aggro, you didnt have a tank requiring special positioning so the dps could dps freely through X-phase etc. The closest would probably oberon or harrow, but even there the difference is a trivial 30m travel or going into operator, so in the end those "roles" shave off a few seconds at best if even that.

Eidolons and bosses in general are bland compared to bosses of trinity games. Even when they do have mechanics it is all about self preservation for the player, no one in the group can really change anything for the other 3 in a real way. Which is why raids (and group play in general) are quite pointless since it puts no weight on the group except for damage output to take down the spongier sponge faster. And only reason to do normal group content is for faster rewards really. WF bosses are well designed for soloplay (although power creep has trivilized them), but for group play they are really really bad.

You should play something by Trinity games then, that would fix the problem right there.

 

Different games have different challenges, it allows for variety.

[SpicyDinosaur]

2 hours ago, Sammonoske said:

DE has an issue with rewarding the players adequately for their time. I wouldn't trust DE to design a raid that could take 30 minutes to an hour to finish and be rewarded with something more than just credit's, endo, and bad RNG.

Raids used to be the only way to get arcanes, and when there were three total of them (LOR, Nightmare LOR, and JV) you could get 3 arcanes every 24 hours total.

[EnwoQ]

NO mission should be longer than 20 min, unless the give us dedicated servers

e.g. Orphix Venom event, if it even happened once it was such a bad feeling (and it happened often)

[Kontrollo]

8 hours ago, ZokuGojira said:

Anything that looks like a Destiny raid, I'm not engaging with. Been there, done that. There's a reason I barely touched Destiny 2 even when it went f2p.

This is too much the podcast game for me to want to pencil in a time to go online with three mates, all in sick gamer chairs and headsets, with our gamer fuel and our war faces on. And proceed to stand on this thing while someone else stands on another thing. That makes the mcguffin spawn and one party member grabs it and runs with it. Then our designated hitter can grab some enchanted hammer and gets in 2 or 3 swings, and the whole thing starts over.

If that was my thing, I'd be playing baseball. Or watching baseball.

That's fine, not everything has to be for everyone, and I'd say the game is already ~95% of "podcast game" as you say. I don't engage with content I dislike, either.

 

4 hours ago, EnwoQ said:

NO mission should be longer than 20 min, unless the give us dedicated servers

e.g. Orphix Venom event, if it even happened once it was such a bad feeling (and it happened often)

We do have dedicated player-hosted dedicated Conclave servers. In my opinion they have been very successful, and people should definitely bring it up with the devs in charge, e.g. when they talk about upcoming things in a dev stream.

 

It was even mentioned back in the day:

On 2016-10-21 at 1:27 AM, [DE]Drew said:

Q: Do you plan on supporting other modes (Trials, Dojos, etc.)? 
A: By popular demand we are looking into this. 

My guess is that Trials were cancelled before they extended this kind of hosting to them.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

You should play something by Trinity games then, that would fix the problem right there.

 

Different games have different challenges, it allows for variety.

Trinity games isnt a "by" question, trinity games is a mechanical setup that allows for proper engaging raids since the 90's more or less. The "holy trinity" i.e tank, healer, dps, all with dedicated roles. Which is why WF will never have actual raids, it may have +1 group content, but that doesnt mean it has raids, and it will not be what people are looking for when they hear the word raid either in a game.

Adding a bunch of puzzles to fullfil some arbitrary group size requirement for contnent doesnt make it a raid. It just makes it forced group content with mechanics that really fit nowhere within the game or the progression ladder. A properly supported raid environment will have encounters that get easier as you gear within the raid, or have done the previous tier i.e the raid prior to the current one. You cannot gear up and progress to make standing on a pressure plate or pulling a lever more efficient etc. Kinda like how Exploiter has cool mechanics, but it throws several years of progression completely down the drain since it is nothing but a mini-puzzle boss where your loadout and gear barely matters.

And yes, different games have different challenges, so why are people hellbent on having raids, pvp and BR in every freakin' game to begin with? WF just doesnt need raids since they add nothing to the game really, so let the raid games keep it where the game has the mechanics to support it in a worthwhile way.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

I may be completely alone on this but i'm 100% against raids on Warframe.

I've played this since 2014 on PS4 and i still enjoy the game with friends in my little clan and i'm MR30 so honestly i'm just waiting for more content to drop on console so me and my boys can grind some new toys to play with.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Why does this topic exist?

Raids were removed and are never coming back.

When DE says they're "looking at" a possibility, that's actually doublespeak for: No, but at long as we never directly say no players won't get too mad.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 9.5.2021 um 04:52 schrieb MouadSaqui:

bcs lets be honest here, Warframe is not a top down ARPG, it is nothing like Path of exile or Diablo franchise, those games have built in mechanics that makes them worth playing, builds in ARPGs makes sense...

 

I don't know which poe or diablo you're talking about. in poe you get killed with a hit and don't even know why. only a few builds are playable at all. fps in groups is lousy and almost everyone plays alone. and if you play alone, you still have crass lag-spies, which constantly lead to death and exp loss.

and diablo ??? you mean diablo3! big lol here. each character has 1 playable build for a season and makes all other builds look ridiculous. For you, action means pressing any skills without any tactics and hammering or holding the mouse buttons until your fingers bleed every 1-5 seconds. or you play with macros like almost everyone there. in addition there are lousy updates and the game has not changed at all since release. Even 7-8 year old bugs are still there. the same garbage items are farmed again and again after reset. For this sausage dev team, updates with awesome content mean that the numbers have to be adjusted a bit.
the same with diablo 2. when mods came out, hardly anyone played this garbage without content. and when we compared what 1 coder offers after working with a mod. and what these "programmers" can achieve with updates in 1-2 years, we laughed for a long time. and this modder also provided a server and forum. absolutely embarrassing.

and I can tell a lot more. but if you already lie to people with untruths at the beginning and put in some youtube videos ...
How about your own opinion and YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE?