Josh Strife Hayes and Warframe

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

(That's from Far Cry 5 btw..)

The cult guy from far cry, i mean kinda makes sense since some people treat a youtubers word as law cause independent thought doesn't mean anything to some people.

But i guess the guy reviews MMOs, i mean i wouldn't give a Crap if the guy likes warframe or not he doesn't speak for me or tell me what i enjoy from the game

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2021-08-08 at 11:59 PM, PublikDomain said:

All of the stuff I was talking about is due to Operators being invincible in Void Mode, so it's only until TWW that you can't do this. After that point literally every boss or enemy in the game can be completely ignored because you're allowed to just ignore it. There are a scant few enemies that can actually damage you through the Void, Shadow Stalker being the only one that comes to mind immediately. So I'm not even talking about Adaptation and Guardian and Energize, those are totally fine by comparison. Laser grid walls designed to make you dodge and move and jump and use the environment as cover? Bah! Just crouch and alt-tab.

So it shouldn't be allowed in your view, after getting the power to do that?

On 2021-08-08 at 11:59 PM, PublikDomain said:

Well maybe you should be asking DE this because every single boss and boss rework has been specifically designed to make you spend minutes fighting it, and to make it "feel like a boss". Using gated stages and thick health pools is pretty much every boss in the game. The negative picture you're painting is the game we're already playing lol.

And why does that happen if not because the community, I wonder. While I don't really mind it, it feels kind of funny because on one side, our community can be very bipolar, bashing warframe for one aspect and at the same time, praising other game for having the same aspect

I myself prefer not having those gated stages and thick health pools getting put too much but if DE wants to make that, I have nothing to say

On 2021-08-08 at 11:59 PM, PublikDomain said:

Maybe because there are different people who think different things? For some people the game is too easy. For others it's not and they complain if DE ever tries to touch their power. And both of these people are correct, the game is both too easy and too hard at the same time because DE's been trying a one-size-fits-all solution for years and it hasn't ever worked once.

Seeing how this community warring with each other, one-size-fits -all solution would be needed seeing how either side can go full ape when seeing something they don't like and going more rabid when someone made a youtube about it

[mega_lova_nia]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Who the hell is Josh Strife Hayes and why should i even bother caring about their opinion of the game and why should anyone else?

Well, it's good feedback from someone outside the community, a third party opinion, something that warframe could use right now. It's also good to have an advice like that as a sort of mediator between the debates that happen here between players regarding warframe and its game mechanics, something that is an anomaly by itself.

[TheArmchairThinker]

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

If players aren't able to finish a mission in less than 1 minute or can't be killing endless amounts of grunts with no effort, it would make sense for the drop rates to be increased as a way to compensate for it. Hell, if any challenging mode was ever added, DE could even make it give something guaranteed in exchange for having a lot of people who would have a really hard time defeating said content.

Why must we have a really hard time when we're given the power to not have it? Also, what's "challenging" if not stacking the odds as much as they can against you?

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Yes, rare rewards can range anywhere between 2% and 10% but those aren't necessarily the rarest rewards since there's also "Ultra Rare" drops (drop chance between 1 and 2%) and "Legendary" drops with a sub 1% drop chance, "just like in other games". The name being different doesn't change that warframe drop rates aren't as generous as you claim.

And I believe the "Ultra Rare" and "Legendary" isn't as mandatory as other games, where having legendary drops are near mandatory to survive. Also, the most of the rare drop outside riven mod can be obtained on other places pretty easily. Boosters have a chance to be daily login reward, coupled with high MR will last more than a full day. Forma is abundant from relics and riven mods can be obtained from riven sliver or Nihil fight.

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Balancing the game in order to make it challenging would be a good start, otherwise we will be stuck with a game where any player can set up a single macro to beat the game and get rewards without actually doing anything.

And I prefer warframe to be a mass murdering god so what is the reason I should accept having the game being challenging through that 'balance' bollocks?

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

There are already some bosses like that, the Ropalolyst is already a boss that's quite well designed and makes use of almost every single mechanic in the game at the moment it was added. The Jackal rework is also fun but gets into the issue of becoming trivial after reaching certain degree of power, which touches on the issue of DE letting player power just go out of hand instead of defining power ceilings and balancing the whole game around these.

If I want to torture myself getting stuck with power ceiling forcing the balancing despite all the thing I went through to get that power, I can play destiny

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

You can have Mercury and Venus too.

Why should I stuck being immortal on Earth, Venus and Mercury when there are other planets all the way to Sedna?

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Wait, SP enemies are though? Galvanized mods and weapon arcanes made SP enemies no different from normal starchart.

SP enemies are tough for a big portion of players, galvanized mods and weapon arcanes don't do much if you can't fulfill the requirement

22 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Yeah, however, people who like that approach can always do it on low and mid level areas, while players who want more of a mechanical approach can't do it on high level areas since these our power is so out of hand that these are no different to low level ones.

You can set your own ceiling, there's no need to force the ceiling to everyone just because you need that ceiling to enjoy

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 hours ago, (NSW)mrEkli said:

He made a new vid with a bit of Warframe focus in it:

Quite an interesting video 🤔. When he was talking about how WoW stripped away the need for a thing when it introduced new expansions, my mind was thinking of how Warframe adds new Warframes or Weapons, and what we've already earned can be applied to them immediately to use them, and older stuff doesn't lose relevancy (and the game has, in some cases, been tweaked to be quite inclusive); Patagium still finds its way into my loadouts even though I earned it reaaaally early and years ago, because I can equip it when I do lower-level content that I'll still find rewards in. Railjack and Necramech are perhaps examples of parasitic design at the moment or earlier, but it does seem like they want to make them more integral to the core of the game in the future (while not making them required? sounds tricky to do)

Definitely food for thought, thanks for sharing 👍

edit: Also, Runescape player Represent!

double edit: Hm. Even Bulletjump, which I thought in the past was a direct upgrade to and replacement for wall-hopping, can be a liability in the middle of a fight. I'd much rather rely on the wall-hop when actively fighting a bunch of enemies, and the Bulletjump to either get away or get to a better position fast (although the roll feels a lot safer to get away. 🤔 more testing required to confirm)

[(PSN)thowed]

It's my favorite game and no one's opinion will change that.

[PublikDomain]

20 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

So it shouldn't be allowed in your view, after getting the power to do that?

Honestly, no... Void Mode breaks a lot of the game's enemy damage mechanics and it always has. What are they gonna do? You're invincible, for free, for as long as you like. They can't even see you. Void Mode should probably just provide stealth. It'd still be useful for hacking or reviving or moving around, but it wouldn't let you straight up ignore the AoE damage mechanics that make up boss fights and other similar encounters.

22 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And why does that happen if not because the community, I wonder. While I don't really mind it, it feels kind of funny because on one side, our community can be very bipolar, bashing warframe for one aspect and at the same time, praising other game for having the same aspect

I myself prefer not having those gated stages and thick health pools getting put too much but if DE wants to make that, I have nothing to say

lol I wonder, maybe the community as a whole isn't as "power fantasy"-hungry as you think it is. People have been begging for a challenge, or just something to do, for years. And DE has tried to provide that time and time again by taking the easy way and trying not to step on any toes. But they always fail. And why does that happen, I wonder?

I'm OK with gated stages and thick health pools when they aren't boring and uninteractive. When the player's nonsense power levels are taken out of the equation, most of the game's bosses and enemies and mechanics are great! A few old ones are still pretty stinky, I'm actually on a new playthrough with this talk about the NPE and something that stuck out was that Lech Kril's mechanics are kind of terrible. I always thought you needed to shoot the pipes, but it's actually the backpack itself even though the pipes are what break. Speaking of, did you know he actually has some sort of extra ability in his fire form? He turns into a ball of fire or something. I've literally never seen him do this until the other day because every other time I've fought him he's died instantly when moving to that phase. We never get to see this part of his fight because he's always dead long before it can happen! Same with a lot of content like Amalgam units. So I'm not OK in the slightest with the game's mechanics allowing players to make content boring and uninteractive. We're all here to play a game and be entertained, and if the game's over in seconds and you don't even get to play... why?

32 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Seeing how this community warring with each other, one-size-fits -all solution would be needed seeing how either side can go full ape when seeing something they don't like and going more rabid when someone made a youtube about it

Or from another angle, this constant back and forth from both sides is a clear indicator that something remains fundamentally very, very wrong with the game and that these issues need to be identified and properly addressed. Continuing to ignore it or try a one-size-fits-all approach obviously hasn't worked.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

double edit: Hm. Even Bulletjump, which I thought in the past was a direct upgrade to and replacement for wall-hopping, can be a liability in the middle of a fight. I'd much rather rely on the wall-hop when actively fighting a bunch of enemies, and the Bulletjump to either get away or get to a better position fast (although the roll feels a lot safer to get away. 🤔 more testing required to confirm)

Its because rolling gives DR while Wall-Hop is chance to not get hit.

Same thing with velocity, the faster you move, the more variated your parkour is, enemies lose accuracy when aiming at you.

[(NSW)Greybones]

8 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Its because rolling gives DR while Wall-Hop is chance to not get hit.

Same thing with velocity, the faster you move, the more variated your parkour is, enemies lose accuracy when aiming at you.

Yeah. Definitely feels that way (I did at some point in the past look at the Wiki for things like numbers and percentages and stuff)

edit: Oh yeah, and I work a lot of Aimglide into everything as well (wiki says "Aim gliding makes players harder to hit by enemies, effectively reducing enemy accuracy "). Even wall-latch doesn't feel as particularly risky as I would immediately think as long as I've got the distance and I don't do it for too long. Really helps line up some shots or figure out the lay of the field

[----Legacy----]

55 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Why must we have a really hard time when we're given the power to not have it?

Why must we even be able to reach that much power to begin with. Even power fantasies have enemies that pose threats, but the whole experience becomes dull when we get there knowing we will win.

57 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Also, what's "challenging" if not stacking the odds as much as they can against you?

What's wrong with that? Overcoming a challenge that's stacked against us is really satisfying, a much better reward -imo- than getting 5K credits. Based on your definition, i guess you're OK with the devs stacking RNG against us in order to challenge our patience just because they know that people like you would start throwing tantrums if they ever add mildly challenging content.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And I believe the "Ultra Rare" and "Legendary" isn't as mandatory as other games, where having legendary drops are near mandatory to survive. Also, the most of the rare drop outside riven mod can be obtained on other places pretty easily. Boosters have a chance to be daily login reward, coupled with high MR will last more than a full day. Forma is abundant from relics and riven mods can be obtained from riven sliver or Nihil fight.

You should take a look at those drop tables, there's lot of useless junk labeled as ultra rare and legendary drops. I used the sorties table only as a way to show you thay warframe has sub 1% drop rates for some stuff too.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And I prefer warframe to be a mass murdering god so what is the reason I should accept having the game being challenging through that 'balance' bollocks?

Wouldn't it be better for warframe to appeal to both type of players in order to gather a bigger audience? You might not believe it, but doing that isn't impossible.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

If I want to torture myself getting stuck with power ceiling forcing the balancing despite all the thing I went through to get that power, I can play destiny

Huh, or you could stick to areas balanced to be below your power level so you can keep wrecking everything on sight without minding anything.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Why should I stuck being immortal on Earth, Venus and Mercury when there are other planets all the way to Sedna?

You could have the entire starmap for all i care, the thing is: Why should the entire game be nothing but a huge low level area? Not even SP is hard.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

SP enemies are tough for a big portion of players, galvanized mods and weapon arcanes don't do much if you can't fulfill the requirement

Yet it wasn't hard for many other players who managed to beat it almost right after release, on solo and without using meta builds. Your comment says a lot about the state of the community.

 

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

You can set your own ceiling, there's no need to force the ceiling to everyone just because you need that ceiling to enjoy

So, why should i nerf myself to get a challenge when that's the dev's task? They either add a challenge that's fit our curremt power ceiling, balance the game for it, or bear with the complaints of their game being too easy.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Why must we even be able to reach that much power to begin with. Even power fantasies have enemies that pose threats, but the whole experience becomes dull when we get there knowing we will win.

What's wrong with that? Overcoming a challenge that's stacked against us is really satisfying, a much better reward -imo- than getting 5K credits. Based on your definition, i guess you're OK with the devs stacking RNG against us in order to challenge our patience just because they know that people like you would start throwing tantrums if they ever add mildly challenging content.

You should take a look at those drop tables, there's lot of useless junk labeled as ultra rare and legendary drops. I used the sorties table only as a way to show you thay warframe has sub 1% drop rates for some stuff too.

Wouldn't it be better for warframe to appeal to both type of players in order to gather a bigger audience? You might not believe it, but doing that isn't impossible.

Huh, or you could stick to areas balanced to be below your power level so you can keep wrecking everything on sight without minding anything.

You could have the entire starmap for all i care, the thing is: Why should the entire game be nothing but a huge low level area? Not even SP is hard.

Yet it wasn't hard for many other players who managed to beat it almost right after release, on solo and without using meta builds. Your comment says a lot about the state of the community.

 

So, why should i nerf myself to get a challenge when that's the dev's task? They either add a challenge that's fit our curremt power ceiling, balance the game for it, or bear with the complaints of their game being too easy.

Play Conclave.

Seriously.. You want a challenge with an opponent that is potentially on-par with, or greater than, you... play against other players, other Tenno.

If the REAL "want" here is for greater challenge than mindless hordes... why do more of you not go to Conclave?  TONS of challenge facing other human opponents.


As for the rest of your complaint...  Everything is NOT "easy" for EVERYONE.  You find the Star Chart "easy" because you gained the power to make it that way.  You find SP easy BECAUSE you GAINED the power to MAKE it that way.

It'd be like Goku looking at Cell and being like "Man, what a novice. So easy to beat! Pfft!  Why can't anyone be challenging to me?"  When that completely ignores the BILLIONS of other humans who do NOT have super saiyan powers to overcome their opponents.  Hell, Hercule is even decently strong by regular standards.

You have become powerful after HUNDREDS of hours of training, leveling, gaining mods, gaining gear and frames, and now you look down from the mountaintop and it doesn't look so tall.  You can't appreciate, it seems, that it IS STILL a mountain, and the majority of players have yet to climb it... and THAT is what DE sees and attempts to build around.  

Also, pointing out how Legendary Cores are <1% Reward is silly, given they offer ZERO advantage to the player that that player cannot get through the same gameplay cycles. RJ, alone, provides a plethora of endo and credits.   Boosters, too, are freely given elsewhere... and that's something DE makes MONEY off of... which means the fact they give it away at all is a bonus.

[(NSW)Greybones]

15 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

So, why should i nerf myself to get a challenge when that's the dev's task? They either add a challenge that's fit our curremt power ceiling, balance the game for it, or bear with the complaints of their game being too easy.

Why not equip alternative mods if the all-power stuff makes you bored? They often alter how a piece of equipment works or can help make fun builds and replace the power. When you lose the overpower mods, you get closer to the fight

[----Legacy----]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Play Conclave.

That's where i've spent most of my game time so far and i find it miles better than the mind numbing PvE experience. 

But hey! There's plenty of players on this "wonderful" community that go out of their way to prevent new players to get there too and shut down any interest in PvP just because they don't like it, want it removed from the game and shout at DE as if they had killed theor pet when any minor bug gets fixed in the mode. Having stuff like players who don't care about the mode and blatantly abusing gamebreaking bugs (that have been reported over and over again since almost 2 years ago) to get the rewards asap doesn't help either, especially when they ragequit after being killed twice or three times by this player wielding Excalibur, braton, lato and skana.

14 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Also, pointing out how Legendary Cores are <1% Reward is silly, given they offer ZERO advantage to the player that that player cannot get through the same gameplay cycles.

That's relative, it may be useless for a player who has practically everything or has been playing for a long time and now dedicates to hoard, however, for players who are just getting started on sorties, these can be quite a life changer.

You should look at the drop tables and the context in which i replied to figure out why i posted them in the first place.

15 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Why not equip alternative mods if the all-power stuff makes you bored? They often alter how a piece of equipment works or can help make fun builds and replace the power. When you lose the overpower mods, you get closer to the fight

The point remains, offering a challenge to overcome is the dev's task.

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The point remains, offering a challenge to overcome is the dev's task.

Hm. Well, the option's always there

edit: personally it's part of why I keep playing Warframe 👍

[----Legacy----]

19 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hm. Well, the option's always there

edit: personally it's part of why I keep playing Warframe 👍

Fair enough, i'm the kind of player who prefers conclave, but despite loving warframe's aesthetics, theme and mechanical systems i'm being driven away from it by DE's lack of care towards the mode on top of the community's toxicity towards the mode that goes as far as shutting down any interest of new players for it.

I really want to like the PvE side of warframe since i think it's a mechanical wonder with an interesting story too, but i simply can't stand the mindnubing gameplay and usually end up falling asleep.

[(NSW)Greybones]

10 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Fair enough, i'm the kind of player who prefers conclave, but despite loving warframe's aesthetics, theme and mechanical systems i'm being driven away from it by DE's lack of care towards the mode on top of the community's toxicity towards the mode that goes as far as shutting down any interest of new players for it.

Wouldn't mind poking around in Conclave myself (I've done PvP before in other games and can enjoy it), but it's kind of hard to find a game.

10 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I really want to like the PvE side of warframe since i think it's a mechanical wonder with an interesting story too, but i simply can't stand the mindnubing gameplay and usually end up falling asleep.

Fair enough. I boreded myself a while ago and took a break, but so often I'd find myself thinking about it, particularly the movement while I was playing Destiny 2 and thinking "Man. If only I could move like my Warframe, I would not have been killed by that". Came back with a different tact, because even Titanfall only sort of gave me that movement fix. Now I'm finding myself sometimes likening Warframe to Doom Eternal; I'd never realised that a game could fatigue my focus as much as Eternal did, and sometimes I feel the same to a lesser extent when I've been fighting for extended periods of time in Warframe (even two waves of Disruption can get me if it's been a long day).

[----Legacy----]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Wouldn't mind poking around in Conclave myself (I've done PvP before and can enjoy it), but it's kind of hard to find a game.

It'd be neat, i hope for crossplay to make it easier since players from all platforms will be playing together when that happens; i've seen some videos from good (or cheeky) console players who i'd like to play against.

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I boreded myself a while ago and took a break, but so often I'd find myself thinking about it, particularly the movement while I was playing Destiny 2 and thinking "Man. If only I could move like my Warframe, I would not have been killed by that".

Yeah, i've found myself trying to bulletjump in other games too like Quake Champions so can totally relate.

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Now I'm finding myself sometimes likening Warframe to Doom Eternal;

Doom games are bliss, they managed to find the sweet spot between power fantasy and balance which gets even better since these have different difficulty settings for players on different skill levels.

I wish warframe could achieve something like that where players who want a challenge could go and get it on high level content while people who simply wants to chill can also do it on low/mid level areas depending of their power.

There's no need to remove either side, but currently it feels like a decently sized part of the community refuses to share "their" game with players who like warframe but are interested on challenging gameplay (and don't even speak about PvP)

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

49 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

I wish warframe could achieve something like that where players who want a challenge could go and get it on high level content while people who simply wants to chill can also do it on low/mid level areas depending of their power.

There's no need to remove either side, but currently it feels like a decently sized part of the community refuses to share "their" game with players who like warframe but are interested on challenging gameplay (and don't even speak about PvP)

🤔 I feel like Warframe has achieved this though, and it’s one of the reasons I think it’s a cool game. That Disruption I was referring to was the standard Jupiter one. I was doing some testing and brought an un-modded Excalibur and some weapons that killed just fast enough to try and set some kind of baseline. Had I bothered, I could have put all sorts of mods like Exilus and Augment mods onto Excalibur to mix it up a little, and I’d still have had to fight well to avoid dying those two times (I ended up equipping a Vigor after a few tries and my survival increased dramatically), and once my weapons killed sufficiently fast I had room for anything else that wasn’t straight damage-increase.

edit: Not to say it can’t be improved, though

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

56 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It'd be neat, i hope for crossplay to make it easier since players from all platforms will be playing together when that happens; i've seen some videos from good (or cheeky) console players who i'd like to play against.

Yeah, i've found myself trying to bulletjump in other games too like Quake Champions so can totally relate.

Doom games are bliss, they managed to find the sweet spot between power fantasy and balance which gets even better since these have different difficulty settings for players on different skill levels.

I wish warframe could achieve something like that where players who want a challenge could go and get it on high level content while people who simply wants to chill can also do it on low/mid level areas depending of their power.

There's no need to remove either side, but currently it feels like a decently sized part of the community refuses to share "their" game with players who like warframe but are interested on challenging gameplay (and don't even speak about PvP)

 

To be fair, I think the game kinda DOES have to "choose", because as-is, we're here complaining that changes that make it "harder" would "take the fun out of it" for those who are chill, and vice versa...  

How do you completely change it but keep it the same?  

Anyways, that being said.. I do have a theory that The Duviri Paradox is going to be EXACTLY what you're looking for, in a sense.

My theory is that our operator exists simultaneously as the kid form, invulnerable and all-powerful, that we have now... AND as their mortal adult form in the Void, in the "Wall", where they cannot access the powers therein (as seen in the trailer), but CAN access weaponry.  The idea of these two forms of ours existing at the same time, but apart completely, would be the "Paradox".

If true, it would allow for DE to develop a more traditional, strategic "shooter" in it's own bubble, separate from the "power creep" of the main game...  This would be a new mode for those who seek the challenge away from the power...   And for everything else, there's MainFrame.

But, that's just my theory, based solely on picking apart the title and limited scenes of a trailer.  Still, think it'd be cool.   Could add a whole new level to Conclave, as well!

Also, I'm garbage at Conclave BUT I still respect it, and see it as the ultimate "challenge mode".  As a streamer, too, I always push those looking for "true challenge" to give it a go.

It IS awfully difficult to find a match, but I, too, think Cross-play will help with that.  (I hope).  I can't blame DE for not overinvesting in it, tbh, given how negative the community gets whenever they do.  Again, limited resources... no logical reason to pour into something your customers don't appear to want.

But as their game expands, hopefully we'll find a place for it.  I really do think it has alot to offer the playerbase.

[CephalonCarnage]

15 hours ago, android3162 said:

And now my mind is no longer made up regarding that, because I read between the lines

perhaps you shoudl see his new video then, about Parasitic Game Design. It too has WF video, but then he talks of Runescape and shows video of that, but the majority of the video where he';s talking in general, is WF. Because he has that video available to use for background content.

[CephalonCarnage]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Railjack and Necramech are perhaps examples of parasitic design at the moment or earlier, but it does seem like they want to make them more integral to the core of the game in the future (while not making them required? sounds tricky to do)

Railjack is a side minigame , you can go blast fighters if you like, but if you don't there is absolutely zero reason to even know a RJ existed.... until the last update whern it became mandatory for some content. Then it became a parasite on the game. I expect we'll get more RJ content and it'll start to be a part of things more and more, but if DE drops their attention on it now, then it'll remain a problem.

Necramechs on the other hand, have no reason to exist in the game at all (except for a single, solitary now RJ-gated and completely artificially created mission node). Sure, they can be fun, sure they can be a reason to grind. But they are not even a minigame. They are just parasites. To put it another way, DE could have had orphix interfere with transference, but made a quest item (a Orphix Disruptor?) that you equip in your  gear to prevent it, and have exactly the same gameplay, lore and mission as mechs, but without needing mechs. Parasites.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

Railjack is a side minigame , you can go blast fighters if you like, but if you don't there is absolutely zero reason to even know a RJ existed.... until the last update whern it became mandatory for some content. Then it became a parasite on the game. I expect we'll get more RJ content and it'll start to be a part of things more and more, but if DE drops their attention on it now, then it'll remain a problem.

Necramechs on the other hand, have no reason to exist in the game at all (except for a single, solitary now RJ-gated and completely artificially created mission node). Sure, they can be fun, sure they can be a reason to grind. But they are not even a minigame. They are just parasites. To put it another way, DE could have had orphix interfere with transference, but made a quest item (a Orphix Disruptor?) that you equip in your  gear to prevent it, and have exactly the same gameplay, lore and mission as mechs, but without needing mechs. Parasites.

Your distaste is noted

[CephalonCarnage]

Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

Your distaste is noted

I have both mechs, they are kinda fun though - awesomely good for thermia fractures - you just stand with a kuva grattler (the best i found) and blast away until all corpus are dead. Its surprisingly satisfying, if dull. They're still the epitome of parasitic game design. For the grind and nothing else.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, gbjbaanb said:

I have both mechs, they are kinda fun though - awesomely good for thermia fractures - you just stand with a kuva grattler (the best i found) and blast away until all corpus are dead. Its surprisingly satisfying, if dull. They're still the epitome of parasitic game design. For the grind and nothing else.

Ah. I misinterpreted your post then.

It seems it at the moment, but perhaps in time we'll see. Someone earlier referenced how Railjack started off as parasitic and is slowely being integrated, and it made me wonder how one determines the final status of a thing as parastic or not when the potential for integration into the core game is a thing. So far my experience with Necramech being integrated into the core game is the aforementioned mission, and a "Oh hell things are getting too hot to handle" emergency button when a defense target is nearing certain death and everything else I brought to the fight was not quite enough to keep it alive.

Curious to see where they go with it

[CephalonCarnage]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Ah. I misinterpreted your post then

You were right, I do have disdain for mechs, they were never a good thing to add, just mroe grind to keep players playing - and in the early days that was a lot of play. I'm still going for a last mech weapon part. god help me.

The test for parasiticism is whether they need the game to exist for them to have meaning. RJ is not the same - it was a side thing, completely optional, like kdrives - you do not need a kdrive for anything, if you don't have one there's no problem at all. Its just a fun side mission thing and helpfully fast openworld transport. RJ was the same, if you didn't like RJ you never needed to bother with it. Ever. These are symbiotic, they do not need Warframe to exist, they could even be a game in themselves.

Mechs though, have no gameplay by themselves. That's why they are parasitic, they can only live by sucking the gameplay blood of an existing host mission. If mechs were removed completely, the game would be unaffected.