Josh Strife Hayes and Warframe

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

I'm getting rather sick of having to explain that it only appears indicative and linear to us because we've already gone through the journey and can look back on the whole solar map.

To a new player, who does not know that the junctions are supposed to be their priority, even the single planet's worth of nodes that they have available to start with contain no fewer than 3 distinct paths that the player might think they are expected to go down. One leads to a roadblock, and another is a dead end until much later in the game's progression, and on the initial branch that leads to both of these is Cetus, which features its own relatively self-contained progression loop that, for all a new player knows, they are supposed to complete before moving on to other worlds. You can say that this is absurd if you want, but the fact is that Warframe's reputation as a grindy game means that this is a very real possibility in the eye of a player who doesn't know otherwise.

The point about saying that the "several junctions have been marked" isn't that they'd all constantly have big flashing DO THIS FIRST sign pointing to them on the star map, it's just a line of dialogue to draw the player's attention toward them, and make sure that players know that any work they put toward completing the Junctions will be direct forward progress, so they know what to prioritise. To go back to my BotW analogy, it's the dialogue line pointing you toward Impa's village.

I was a new player once (like everyone of us) and I think about how I felt about it going through the chart. I found nothing unclear with it when I started. As a new player I also wanted to do the different missions, clear the planet, even if that ment I ended up at a roadblock. The nodes to that roadblock were then cleared when I could go back and finish it. It feels like people have an impression that new players are dumber than doorknobs these days.

[General-Pacman]

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

have an impression that new players are dumber than doorknobs these days.

In my opinion, It's not about the inteligence of the players, it's about the amount of time they are willing to spend on research/learning vs the time they want to spend actually playing.

This is a very, VERY wild assumption from my part, but this is what I think is part of the problem: 10-15 years ago most of the gaming community (not only in Warframe, but in general) consisted of young / teenage  players which had a lot of free time, and willingness to take some time to learn game mechanics on their own; but there has been a noticable change in gaming demographics the last years, being now splitted between a bunch of late teens/middle-aged players, with jobs, responsabilities, and less time to play, and a new young generation which, due to cultural changes and the influence of technology, expect to have fast, inmediate satisfaction on everything they do, and become easily bored or frustrated when that's not the case. The first group does not have the time to read a bunch of articles and guides before playing; the second group does have the time, but is not interested in wasting it on doing research on their own, so both end looking for alternative games with a faster, more streamlined introduction.

This is obviously a very rough generalization, and I'm aware that this does not apply for every single player, but my guess is a big chunk of the players that end up leaving during the first hours of gameplay tend to fall in one of those two categories. In my case, I started playing warframe back in 2013, and back then I had both the time and interest in learning about the game by myself; but if I were to start playing the game for the first time right now, I would most likely abandon it after a couple of days. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I've seen his review. It's more of an early game first impression. It is accurate and highlights both the positives and negatives of the supposed early game. 

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

Reworking the NPE is a catch 22. As Warframe is free, everyone that is interested has probably already tried it. If the NPE turned them off, they won't come back regardless of how much reworking DE does.

[(PSN)Unstar]

8 hours ago, mega_lova_nia said:

basically i want to see a full 3rd party review to clear up the debates that has been happening regarding this game

There is no review that has any chance of clearing any debates up.  A review is just a perspective, and a good review is just a perspective that is well-communicated.  Mountains of objective data can't convince people that global warming is objectively occuring; there's no way that one person's subjective opinion (however eloquent it may be) is going to put any subjective debates to rest.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

48 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Reworking the NPE is a catch 22. As Warframe is free, everyone that is interested has probably already tried it. If the NPE turned them off, they won't come back regardless of how much reworking DE does.

I've been told the opposite by people who quit.

[Alpheias]

On 2021-08-04 at 9:23 AM, TaricTheHealer said:

 

Thanks sounds like a interesting video. I have often wondered if making a new account so i can experience what its like to jump into this huge world as a beginner would be a good idea but i fear that due to the fact i know tons about the game it wouldn't feel new and exciting like i hoped.

As someone who made a alt account because I ran out of things to do on my main, I can say with confidence that you will wonder why this gated, why do you as a new player have to wait for literally hours to play the game. And you will wonder why are you even bothering with a alt account because you will hit the same wall of having literally nothing to do, like I did.

[Surbusken]

First time I tried the game, I enjoyed the combat, it being action twitch based, manually aiming and animation skipping.

I hate the auto tab 2d point and click mmo gameplay.

 

Minus combat and parkour, everything else in the game was strictly about asking myself if I could cope with the bs, not least have to read 9 pages before playing a map.

Though I will say it's good that it's all garbled from the beginning so you learn you have to read up early.

Ironically if the grind was more casual I might be too but they just waste the players' time so much you get painted into a corner turning me into uncle scrooge - when I actually showed up and just enjoyed the combat in itself.

I always wished for the developers to start having faith in their producing fun gameplay instead of using archaic mmo grind formulas to boost fake metrics.

To this day we still laugh at them forcing the player to sit through quest cutscenes they aren't allowed to skip or tab out from. When you go that far to force the content on people it shows a total lack of confidence.

 

So if I was going to explain the game to someone, I'd tell them combat is good but crafting, modding etc. everything else is going to make you break down in tears or smash up your PC.

It's a question if you enjoy the combat enough to put up with the developers.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I was a new player once (like everyone of us) and I think about how I felt about it going through the chart.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you join pre-Specters of the Rail? The disk-based solar map, for all its faults, was a bit more intuitive.

[Zimzala]

IME, started a couple years back, the NPE was no more and no less forcing me to research stuff than any other long running SaaS game.

IMO/IME, the people who talk about having to read 'everything' before playing are the same people who want to know the plot of the movie before watching it...it's about outlooks.

I prefer to figure things out on my own in a game, this one is designed around the idea you as the avatar in the game actually don't understand what's going on, and that you, as the character in the game, have to literally figure out how this universe twisted by void magic works...IMO, it is a fundamental part of what makes WF special in terms of gameplay and is also part of the main story.

As @General-Pacman mentioned, what has happened during the lifespan of this game has changed what gaming is to a lot of the population.

IME, the gamers that scream loudest for being told what to do and how to do it need that because their plan is to finish this game and move on to the next as quickly as possible, because modern gaming has become a one-up e-peen contest for a lot of people who base their personal score on how many games they have beaten.

At the least, they get the idea that they have to 'catch-up' for some reason if a game has been out for a while, as if the 'older' parts of a game are simply bad because they are old...it's a silly outlook, IMO, driven by the continued lack of patience and a desire to experiment and learn.

Games like WF are simply not targeted at people who think they have to beat a game in a weekend and move on to the next one, IMO.

All it takes to learn WF, without going to the Wiki of YouTube is a little patience and experimentation, IME.

Are you going to learn every single little number and formula in the game that way? Nope. But you don't need that data to enjoy the game, I am living proof. I turned off all floating damage numbers on day 1 and I can beat all the content I like, all I did was experiment with loadouts until I found the one that worked best.

IME, patience and experimentation are not what many modern gamers call gaming, they call having to learn on their own 'a waste of time', it's all about 'the end' so they can say they have 'been there, done that', increase their e-peen, and move on to the next new game.

Just look at the number of new players that delude themselves into thinking if they don't have all the best weapons in a week/month that they are actually doing something wrong...if you enjoy the game, there is no 'wrong'...but if you have no patience, then 'everything' is 'too slow'...how on earth anyone over teh age of around 25 can think a week is a long time is beyond this old gamer, I blink and months pass.

Few of the more modern games that get published hold any of my interest for more than about 10 minutes, because they literally tell you exactly where to go, how to get there, what weapons are best, in a straight line from start to finish, no thought required...most modern games IME are literally geared to be hand-holding baby-sitters that allow no room for thought on the part of the player at all...geared for the impatient gamer who just wants to rush to the end.

As I ask so very often, why can we not just let WF be what it is and accept it for what it is w/o trying to turn it into yet another story game on rails?

Why can't WF continue to stand apart and be different, challenging in a different way, a game you figure out as much as kill pixels?

[TheArmchairThinker]

16 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Being able to one shot a world boss is an issue on itself, which becomes even bigger when we keep in mind that despite how short are night cycles, players can still easily do all 3 world boss fights 6 times per cycle.

And what's wrong in that? I for one like warframe for being a game that doesn't use that "balance" bollocks as an excuse to stretch the boss fight despite all of that effort to gain power

16 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Content that players play because it's enjoyable, not because the new shiny is locked behind it and then forget about it after getting all of its rewards. One of warframe's glaring issues is how it puts a lot more emphasis on rewards than on the gameplay itself.

And yeah, believe it or not, both issues (game's lack of balance and emphasis on trivializing gameplay to get rewards asap) go hand in hand.

And what is enjoyable? You can say one hitting the boss is not enjoyable but I see that as enjoyable for not being the same with mainstream games that makes the boss scale up to match your power

15 hours ago, Corvid said:

So why does Warframe, a game with a vastly greater deal of mechanical complexity, get a free pass for being obtuse, when the issue could literally be solved with a single line of dialogue ("Operator, if we are to effect change in this system we will need to expand our accessible regions. I have marked several Junctions on Navigation that will allow us access to new sectors to -PLUNDER- operate within."), or if that is too much, a text box.

That makes me questioning the players. What you put is one nice hint but if someone can't even think to step back and try another route when they hit a roadblock, I'm starting to question is the player in question can't think for oneself that they need a handholding tutorial

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2021-07-31 at 6:59 PM, OniDax said:

Well he really didn't have much to say about the game, did he? That was a very light "critique" and one based on gameplay that stopped at Jackal. Are all his critiques like that?

Also, with him being familiar with the "registered losers" comment, I find it hard to believe he wasn't already familiar with the game before starting his work on this video.

"Registered losers" pops up when researching the game. 

More importantly, a review of Warframe that stops at the Jackal is perfect if you consider he still has hundreds of hours left to even get to where the (EXTREMELY) long time playing youtuber vets are. Remember, his job is not to spoil the game but to review and get a feel of it. Based on his review, any player jumping in would have no idea that they haven't even scratched the surface of this game when they get to the Jackal...and that's the point.

In fact, he gave DE the greatest assist imaginable: an opportunity to clean up the pathway even further, once New War releases. His review gives a crystal clear view of the key elements, as many players already expressed, but he did it with visuals, pinpoint areas to adjust and, most importantly, a minimal resource need in order to make those adjustments. Brozime also did a great job of honing in on those areas. I would happily be a part of a tutorial advisory assist team for DE and would replay it many times to help fine tune it.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And what's wrong in that?

The world boss turns out to be nothing but a glorified grunt.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

I for one like warframe for being a game that doesn't use that "balance" bollocks as an excuse to stretch the boss fight despite all of that effort to gain power

Kudos to you for it. On the other hand, having every single enemy unit being so easy to bypass that might as well not even be there for gameplay purposes is one of the reasons why DE's only way to make players put some degree of "effort" in the game is by locking rewards under awfully low drop rates and multi layered time gates, sometimes while still removing our power and/or making enemies get obnoxious damage reductions (that can still be bypassed anyways) to make them stand a chance against us.

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And what is enjoyable?

That's subjective, i for one enjoy the mechanical aspect of gameplay, but it gets entirely removed after reaching certain point in the power progression.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I would happily be a part of a tutorial advisory assist team for DE and would replay it many times to help fine tune it.

Same. It's as easy as telling them to do some lotus recordings and adding some objectives to existing missions as a simple quest. 

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

I for one like warframe for being a game that doesn't use that "balance" bollocks as an excuse to stretch the boss fight despite all of that effort to gain power

Instead they wind up stretching the newest bosses out with Damage Attenuation and constant teleportation that doesn't solve the issue and only makes certain options significantly worse while still having loopholes that only a select few options can exploit.

So we just have a different set of bollocks that is outrageously inconsistent and still boils down to "power" not actually being a factor but rather ways to circumvent anything DE tries to do to prevent our "power" from trivializing the content from minute 1 of launch.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

Instead they wind up stretching the newest bosses out with Damage Attenuation and constant teleportation that doesn't solve the issue and only makes certain options significantly worse while still having loopholes that only a select few options can exploit.

So we just have a different set of bollocks that is outrageously inconsistent and still boils down to "power" not actually being a factor but rather ways to circumvent anything DE tries to do to prevent our "power" from trivializing the content from minute 1 of launch.

 I think that's a very loose issue though. While some players can trivialize a Warframe boss, a great many struggle with at least one of DE's differently designed bosses. I know players that cannot even fathom beating an eidolon, let alone profit-taker...but has taken out Lichens easily. DE has done a better job than they get credit for and I think long time players underestimate their journey to power that can easily defeat bosses.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

 I think that's a very loose issue though. While some players can trivialize a Warframe boss, a great many struggle with at least one of DE's differently designed bosses. I know players that cannot even fathom beating an eidolon, let alone profit-taker...but has taken out Lichens easily. DE has done a better job than they get credit for and I think long time players underestimate their journey to power that can easily defeat bosses.

Very true. 

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

On 2021-05-11 at 2:31 AM, mega_lova_nia said:

Let's just say, if he did end up playing warframe and reviewed it, i really do hope our game don't end up in "Worst of MMOs"

(not to mention our game isn't exactly an mmo so...)

Not all Tennis wear syandanas

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2021-05-11 at 12:31 AM, mega_lova_nia said:

So i've been watching a dude named Josh Strife Hayes, a guy who makes reviews on popular mmorpgs. The videos that made me interested however are his reviews on bad mmorpgs, basically mmorpgs that are considered objectively bad. This made me remember about warframe who has some similar recurring patterns that are prevalent in those mmorpgs that he considered bad. So i talked to him about this game and he told me that he is interested in playing warframe in the future.

Let's just say, if he did end up playing warframe and reviewed it, i really do hope our game don't end up in "Worst of MMOs"

(not to mention our game isn't exactly an mmo so...)

When you bow at the altar of any MMO, there’s just some concessions you have to make at the door.

People dont whinge about the lack of dialogue options in racing simulators. People don’t expect in depth strategy from most AAA first person shooters, and similarly being an MMO requires some sacrifices.

 

In my opinion, the fact that warframe is alive shows that it is in fact a decent game. When people talk about the success of MMO’s, sure you can talk player counts, but what’s interesting about the MMO genre is that you can also do it by body count.

Like, World of Warcraft, it’s had however many millions of players, and it’s also been responsible for more deaths than most natural disasters, even quite a lot of them combined. Same story with RuneScape.

The think about MMO’s is, 90% of the progression just comes down to sheer time investment. So they are a difficult audience to court, because even if they like your game, they will generally always just return to the MMO they dedicated the most time to.

The fact that warframe is alive and profitable, in this genre specifically, speaks spades for the quality of the game itself.

Coincidentally, I don’t recall ever hearing about a warframe player that literally played the game to death. 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

13 hours ago, OniDax said:

And, see, that's a good example of what I'm talking about. DE looks at player engagement metrics and says "They aren't playing as much after we did X" or "Our doing X didn't result in more engagement", and therefore decide that "doing X" isn't worth it. Do they actually listen to feedback on why "doing X" didn't yield the results they wanted? Did they take to heart feedback on what players felt was the problem that required "doing X?"

Using the Tennocon context, did DE explain what the problem was with Nezha that required a rework? Did they explain what the goal was with reworking Nezha? Did they ever explain why players weren't playing Nezha more after the rework? Without understanding 1) what players identify is the problem with something and 2) what players are expecting from a fix to the problem, the developed solution might not yield the intended results. Was the goal of reworking Nezha simply to try to get more players to play with the Warframe? Was there not a problem that needed fixing with Nezha? If the only goal with improving the game is to get more people to play it, then that's a misplaced goal. Something should be improved if it's lacking in some area, whether it's buggy or broken or of low quality compared to standards in the game or industry or if players aren't satisfied with it and have proposed solutions.

I say that because there are a lot of reasons why Nezha wouldn't be played more. Perhaps the reason Nezha isn't played more is because players don't like the way the frame looks. Maybe they just don't like the concept, the abilities, the animations. If that's the case, then of course, no reworks would result in people playing Nezha more. But is that what players were saying was wrong with Nezha? If players had issues with the frame's abilities or stats, then the expected outcome should be to see expressed satisfaction with the frame among those who play the frame, not more people playing the frame. That's why player engagement metrics aren't everything and why it's important to identify the actual issue expressed by players and implement targeted solutions that actually address those issues.

To bring it back to the new player experience, I think it's more than just the NPE that needs work. Right now, NPE=Intro. The problem isn't the intro. It's the part of the game that comes after. The intro is pretty decent. It's the formative part of the game where you're engaging with the tileset missions, the grind, the loot, the early progression, where the game needs more structure, more guidance, and more information. That part could use some streamlining as well as guidance regarding the game's systems and progression system (like guiding players through the modding system or giving context to unlocking the star chart).

I don’t play Nezha because of the obnoxious noises that come from their 3 or 4, I can’t actually recall which. It sounds like a magnetic proc going off every few seconds. Over and over and over again. They are an amazing frame, and very powerful. But playing them gives me a migraine. 
 

In short, I don’t play Nezha because it physically hurts me.

[nebfab]

15 hours ago, General-Pacman said:

oung generation which, due to cultural changes and the influence of technology, expect to have fast, inmediate satisfaction on everything they do, and become easily bored or frustrated when that's not the case.

I'm not disagreeng with the wider point, but this is a bit like saying kids these days are clumsier because they're no longer willing to put up with janky controls and cameras most early 3D games had. (The original Shogun:Total War is cheap on Steam, if anyone wants a living demonstration. A founding game in one of the most successful "video game first" franchises. Critically acclaimed and beloved by players at the time. Nearly unplayable by anyone used to modern RTS camera controls.)

A few games that didn't, like Mario 64 and Quake weren't an easy mode for filthy casuals, they shown the rest of the industry how things could and should be done. (Also, in console world, controllers getting analog sticks as standard was important, of course.)

 

It's a bit different with difficulty: Early on everyone had interest in ramping up the difficulty. Arcade cabinets wanted quarters. Console games that weren't arcade ports still needed to be somehow both beatable in under an hour and playable for days (no saves.) And if you developed for computers (or, even worse, had to justify that schmancy battery-powered cartridge) day 0 printed strategy guides and pay-per-minute hint lines were what devs did before microtransactions.

 

Downfall of the arcade, new consoles with built-in permanent storage and players sharing walkthroughs and strategies on the Internet pretty much killed those reasons, but in the early 2000s games still were overly difficult partly out of sheer inertia, partly because not every genre figured out 3D controls yet. :D

 

Now, there are genres/games where difficulty is the point, nobody wants Dark Souls that's easy or Microsoft Flight Simulator that doesn't simulate every button in the cockpit and every bit of required ATC chatter, or a Paradox game that wouldn't teach you when and where Johor Sultanate was and what strategic significance it had. But... WF isn't any of those. It's a SF looter and non-roguelike looters never were difficult. Diablo 1 could be played through by just about anyone and D2 was bigger, but really not much more challenging.

 

So, yea, it's not so much young players getting lazier, as the business case for difficult games shrinking, and the case for games aimed at a 30-something with 8 hours of spare time a week expanding.

[Corvid]

4 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

That makes me questioning the players. What you put is one nice hint but if someone can't even think to step back and try another route when they hit a roadblock, I'm starting to question is the player in question can't think for oneself that they need a handholding tutorial

I fail to see how a single line giving the player an indication of which way leads to progress, followed by letting them do whatever they want is "handholding". Again, my inspiration for this addition comes from one of the most open games in recent memory.

To be quite frank, time is one of the most valuable things players have. So unless they're already committed to learning the game on startup (which is an exceeding minority of players), any time where they are uncertain if said time is being wasted is time that they might decide is better used elsewhere, in other games. My suggestion at least mitigates the risk of this by, again, ensuring that new players know what their immediate goal is and consequently which tasks are progress and which are side-objectives.

I also don't know why players are so opposed to it when the only dev-time needed would be a single audio recording/editing session, and the time needed to insert the line (it would only need to show up for players that haven't completed a junction, and there are already Ordis lines that drop out of rotation once certain criteria are met, so we know code exists to keep them from being heard by players who don't need them).

[(PSN)NomNomFabbo]

21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Right now, in WF, when you log on after a big content update, there will be a massive side window to click with news before you get to the actual game. This gives you a big hint that you should probably read the recent patch notes, which do in detail explain how the new content system works. So why on earth would you head to youtube when you can simply read up about it quicker? If this was about how to kill a new boss I'd agree, heading to youtube will quicken or smoothen the progress. But then again, how to kill a new boss shouldnt be part of patch notes, in game hints or tooltips to begin with. That is for the players to figure out and share with the rest if they want to.

It is simply a bad idea to have valuable information in a news tab or a patch notes screen. I want to be able to discover information ingame without breaking the immersion.
For example, try to find out ingame which frame grants which element on a lich. Or how to open up a vault in the wrecked ship tileset. Or let's assume you level steel meridian, Cephalon Suda and Arbiters. How are you going to find out that Glast sells Tenet weapons? (Those are just some random things)

When I have a break of a year, the news screen won't cover all what I have missed and I am not going to jump into a year full of patch notes to find a bit of information. I jump to Youtube because the information there is already condensed and presented in a way that gives me all I want to know about a topic.
Raids (yes there were raids in Warframe) were basically so unknown that people who played the game demanded them despite already being implemented and live.

If you compare Warframe to games like Genshin, you see a clear difference. Whenever a new feature is added there, you have a quest that guides you through the process. It doesn't even have to be a big thing or take longer than 5 minutes to complete.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, General-Pacman said:

In my opinion, It's not about the inteligence of the players, it's about the amount of time they are willing to spend on research/learning vs the time they want to spend actually playing.

This is a very, VERY wild assumption from my part, but this is what I think is part of the problem: 10-15 years ago most of the gaming community (not only in Warframe, but in general) consisted of young / teenage  players which had a lot of free time, and willingness to take some time to learn game mechanics on their own; but there has been a noticable change in gaming demographics the last years, being now splitted between a bunch of late teens/middle-aged players, with jobs, responsabilities, and less time to play, and a new young generation which, due to cultural changes and the influence of technology, expect to have fast, inmediate satisfaction on everything they do, and become easily bored or frustrated when that's not the case. The first group does not have the time to read a bunch of articles and guides before playing; the second group does have the time, but is not interested in wasting it on doing research on their own, so both end looking for alternative games with a faster, more streamlined introduction.

This is obviously a very rough generalization, and I'm aware that this does not apply for every single player, but my guess is a big chunk of the players that end up leaving during the first hours of gameplay tend to fall in one of those two categories. In my case, I started playing warframe back in 2013, and back then I had both the time and interest in learning about the game by myself; but if I were to start playing the game for the first time right now, I would most likely abandon it after a couple of days. 

I agree with this, since it is what I've observed aswell. I started out gaming around 20 years ago, and you can see what you describe in games like the Battlefield frenchise, though in a different way. Not that people want everything explained, but that they want to be required to think as little as possible. Which has gradually been implemented in the BF series by extending the safety of your home base by a rediculous amount since BF1942. You can also see it in WoW and D3 where Blizzard have dumbed down their systems to a point were a braindead rat would manage to build a well performing character.

But at the same time, WF isnt exactly that hard to pick up and learn gradually as game systems get unlocked. Sure it doesnt hold the hand of the player, but it isnt that complicated either. If all the systems were thrown at us directly it would be a different story, but we get them all gradually. Like I said previously, PoE is probably the only place that is poorly implemented for a new player since you can reach it after Vor's Price, which can lead to frustration and spoilers if you look up different things out there.

16 hours ago, Corvid said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you join pre-Specters of the Rail? The disk-based solar map, for all its faults, was a bit more intuitive.

I joined shortly after PoE got released, like in oct 2017, the same year I had to look for a new game since Marvel Heroes got curb stomped by the big Mouse due to a pervert CEO at Gazillion. So I joined in the middle of this so called "feature creep" with frames, archwings, pets, plains, eidolons, spoilers and everything else.

3 hours ago, (PSN)NomNomFabbo said:

It is simply a bad idea to have valuable information in a news tab or a patch notes screen. I want to be able to discover information ingame without breaking the immersion.
For example, try to find out ingame which frame grants which element on a lich. Or how to open up a vault in the wrecked ship tileset. Or let's assume you level steel meridian, Cephalon Suda and Arbiters. How are you going to find out that Glast sells Tenet weapons? (Those are just some random things)

When I have a break of a year, the news screen won't cover all what I have missed and I am not going to jump into a year full of patch notes to find a bit of information. I jump to Youtube because the information there is already condensed and presented in a way that gives me all I want to know about a topic.
Raids (yes there were raids in Warframe) were basically so unknown that people who played the game demanded them despite already being implemented and live.

If you compare Warframe to games like Genshin, you see a clear difference. Whenever a new feature is added there, you have a quest that guides you through the process. It doesn't even have to be a big thing or take longer than 5 minutes to complete.

Few games does that. Not even WoW did it. You had to head to mmo-champion, thottbot, wowhead, wowdb or other sites if you took a more lengthy break or planned on getting into something new that was old in the game. And for Glast and Tenet weapons, yeah it may be hard to find on your own if you have been on a break, but the codex along with the chatbot should tell you where to obtain them. And I wouldnt be surprised if people demanded raids even if so called raids were in the game already, since they werent raids in the shape of what most people that raid look for. 

And sure, Genshin may introduce new systems with a quest, but that also requires further development for a game and quests to be made. The charm with WF has been that it doesnt hold your hand. When you can reach a new content piece you tend to get the info through a mail that tells you how to activate it, even if you've been on a lengthy break that mail will wait for you when you return.

[Fl_3]

Easily the best "up to date" review of Warframe by someone new to Warframe.

Watch the video, listen to the guy, he's loving the game but hating the systems behind it.

I feel his frustration.

I've introduced friends to Warframe only to see them leave when they simply failed to understand something "We're here to play a game, not browse the internet on how to play it" seemed to be the general feeling. 

A shame considering that once you understand the systems Warframe is as simple as Tic-tak-toe.