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Ash Rework ideas


Jsyrin

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I'll be honest, I don't actually think Ash needs that much work. However, there are some things that could make him more viable and/or make him a bit more interesting.

 

Passive: I'll be honest, the passive's pretty good. Not great, but doing more damage for slash procs is always welcome. It would, however, be nice if you would also receive some kind of evasion/stealth bonus from shadowed areas just to fit the theme of Ash being an actual ninja

Shuriken: Let it do more damage and strip armor as a base function and we're pretty much golden tbh. It's not a terrible ability, but it is kind of boring. A possible augment would just be to throw more shuriken at once at reduced damage but hitting more targets at once.

Smoke Screen: Increase duration and... uh. Yeah that's about it? It's an invis power, it just needs some more duration to be better.

Teleport: The important one here, and probably the biggest change: Make base Teleport a free teleport to anywhere you aim with your reticle. Warframe has a serious lack of free-teleport abilities (and no Wisp's slowass ghost thing doesn't count, nor does Loki's decoy spam switch teleport combo) and since Teleport by itself only "opens enemies up to finishers" as a base function (which is completely made useless by Fatal Teleport) it really just needs to be solely movement based option. Fatal Teleport can stay the same as it is now- snap to enemies only, and instantly finisher attack them. However, since currently Fatal Teleport is so janky, what I think would be good is if it did something similar to what it does now if you activate Teleport while doing Bladestorm: wherein a short (no more than 1.5 seconds long) cutscene animation plays similar to the regular Bladestorm animation, but at the end of it you are where the target was, and the attack does finisher damage based on your melee weapon- sort of a fusion between Bladestorm and Teleport. I'm pretty sure this would eliminate a good amount of a jank that goes into Fatal Teleport's awful targeting, since it would trigger no matter what, and it wouldn't rely on the target enemy needing to have the ability to do melee finishers (which, currently, makes Fatal Teleport useless against all flying enemies and bursas, along with a few others). Long story short: Teleport will let you freely teleport around at high speed which makes it good for getting out of bad situations, Fatal Teleport trades that for the ability to consistently and instantly #*!% up one enemy's entire health bar.

And finally, Bladestorm: I'll be honest, Bladestorm never needed the cutscene and these days it's pretty much unused by anyone (though how much of that is because NO ONE USES ASH is debatable). It's also clunky as hell to use at the moment, so I propose sort of a fusion of how it used to be with how it is now: Instead of having to manually target enemies and spend precious time not killing, instead, Bladestorm would instead target every visible enemy that the camera is pointing at during the moment of activation, and then dispatch shadow clones to kill them all- sort of like how Inferno works for Ember, but y'know. Slash procs. Additionally, having Bladestorm do percent damage + an initial damage amount would be nice for scaling it to endgame level enemies. There may be concerns that this could shake up the meta or be too broken but I have an excellent counterpoint ready in the form of a single Warframe: Saryn. Saryn exists. Ash being able to kill a few enemies a little faster while still being constrained to mostly line of sight for all abilites except Shuriken's punchthrough homing wouldn't be meta in the slightest and the percent damage only goes so far as to keep him viable if only just barely in the long run.

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Okay, here we go again.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Jsyrin:

Passive: I'll be honest, the passive's pretty good. Not great, but doing more damage for slash procs is always welcome. It would, however, be nice if you would also receive some kind of evasion/stealth bonus from shadowed areas just to fit the theme of Ash being an actual ninja

Actually I would it more like that he gets a passive which affects his abilities a bit more. Until it's just damage, but it would be neat if DE would "play" with it a bit more.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Jsyrin:

Shuriken: Let it do more damage and strip armor as a base function and we're pretty much golden tbh. It's not a terrible ability, but it is kind of boring. A possible augment would just be to throw more shuriken at once at reduced damage but hitting more targets at once.

I would have nothing against higher damage, but this wouldn't help this ability because Ash will always have better ways to kill (/attack) an enemy with less energy cost. I agree with you that the augment should become a base part of this ability. But actually is armor strip for Ash usless, because passive. It would help him more if shuriken removes enemy shields, or shields& armor. (it hits only two targets.)

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Jsyrin:

Smoke Screen: Increase duration and... uh. Yeah that's about it? It's an invis power, it just needs some more duration to be better.

And turn it into a loki "invisibility" clone? Nah I'm sure you have better ideas. Think about the it's name! What is missing, when you use the ability?

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Jsyrin:

Teleport: The important one here, and probably the biggest change: Make base Teleport a free teleport to anywhere you aim with your reticle. Warframe has a serious lack of free-teleport abilities (and no Wisp's slowass ghost thing doesn't count, nor does Loki's decoy spam switch teleport combo) and since Teleport by itself only "opens enemies up to finishers" as a base function (which is completely made useless by Fatal Teleport) it really just needs to be solely movement based option. Fatal Teleport can stay the same as it is now- snap to enemies only, and instantly finisher attack them. However, since currently Fatal Teleport is so janky, what I think would be good is if it did something similar to what it does now if you activate Teleport while doing Bladestorm: wherein a short (no more than 1.5 seconds long) cutscene animation plays similar to the regular Bladestorm animation, but at the end of it you are where the target was, and the attack does finisher damage based on your melee weapon- sort of a fusion between Bladestorm and Teleport. I'm pretty sure this would eliminate a good amount of a jank that goes into Fatal Teleport's awful targeting, since it would trigger no matter what, and it wouldn't rely on the target enemy needing to have the ability to do melee finishers (which, currently, makes Fatal Teleport useless against all flying enemies and bursas, along with a few others). Long story short: Teleport will let you freely teleport around at high speed which makes it good for getting out of bad situations, Fatal Teleport trades that for the ability to consistently and instantly #*!% up one enemy's entire health bar.

The free teleport is a mechanice which every Ash player wish for since years. I have no idea what you mean with the suggestion for fatal-teleport.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Jsyrin:

And finally, Bladestorm: I'll be honest, Bladestorm never needed the cutscene and these days it's pretty much unused by anyone (though how much of that is because NO ONE USES ASH is debatable). It's also clunky as hell to use at the moment, so I propose sort of a fusion of how it used to be with how it is now: Instead of having to manually target enemies and spend precious time not killing, instead, Bladestorm would instead target every visible enemy that the camera is pointing at during the moment of activation, and then dispatch shadow clones to kill them all- sort of like how Inferno works for Ember, but y'know. Slash procs. Additionally, having Bladestorm do percent damage + an initial damage amount would be nice for scaling it to endgame level enemies. There may be concerns that this could shake up the meta or be too broken but I have an excellent counterpoint ready in the form of a single Warframe: Saryn. Saryn exists. Ash being able to kill a few enemies a little faster while still being constrained to mostly line of sight for all abilites except Shuriken's punchthrough homing wouldn't be meta in the slightest and the percent damage only goes so far as to keep him viable if only just barely in the long run.

Let's forget the aspect that this suggestion is extremly unbalanced and that you use a broken frame as reason why it can be broken and go the the main problem.

Why does Ash have four abilities? Your bladestorm is an instant delete button. For what do he need armor stripping shurikens if he can delete the enemy with one button? Who need survivalability when you can crouch in a corner an delete everthing which you can see? Who needs teleporting if hiding in a corner and press4win is the best playstile?

Warframe is a "power fantasy" game, but this doesn't mean that the game has to be turned into cookie-clicker. There are no cooldowns and the energy system is also broken. If you make next time a suggestion like this go sure and think how to balance it. Saryn as an example also need a bit time to kill everything and even then there's the problem that she balances herself by doing so much damage that the spores can't spread anymore.

 

In sum: 5/10 (normally I give less than 3 out of 10 points). Shuriken and teleport ideas are okay, but the idea for smoke screen is boring/ uninspiring and your bs idea is terrible. And yes I like to be the A**hole.

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Man the real conclave is the forums huh?

 

Anyways,

 

Bladestorm's targeting mechanic is the issue. 2 spitball ideas.

1- Add the 'mark enemies you look at' to his passive, which is always active. Push 4 to shadow clone jutsu everyone you've spotted. Maybe increase the cone size for marking them a bit more.

2-Make it similar to Garuda's 4 or Mesa 4. Slap a big circle on the screen, clones attack anything in the circle. No more 'paint the targets'.

 

Also, shame his arm daggers are basically useless. The only time they're used is for the cutscene. Perhaps make fatal teleport part of the base ability and shank them with the arm blades? That would bypass the melee weapon though so not sure. Just would be nice for them to have more of a use.

 

((Also also, his 1 should throw three shurikens. Two is just a weird number to me.))

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20 hours ago, Jsyrin said:

I'll be honest, I don't actually think Ash needs that much work.

20 hours ago, Jsyrin said:

Bladestorm never needed the cutscene and these days it's pretty much unused by anyone

That`s untrue, when I use bs I'm always in the animation coz without being in it for me its boring, as for the amount of work he needs, he dose not need a rework just a revisit.

Ash has issues most ppl don`t know about coz they either use 2 augments that cover up 2 of those abilities issues 27/7 to the point ppl just ignore it or/and coz of the way ppl play and talk about him they defiantly won`t find any issues with him, his issues are so bad his bs can`t kill  level six enemies in a team, even stats prove Ash is not as good as ppl say he is.

Here are the list of his issues;

Spoiler

Shuriken

·       Shuriken is only good with its augment, an augment is meant to be used as an option and not to make the ability better, which means on its own it`s not worth using.

·       Because of the way bladestorm works, it makes it redundant due to bs doing more damage and costing less energy.

·       If there are 3 enemies in front of you and you want to kill the one in the right, sometimes it will target the other two enemies instead of the one you want even if you`re aiming at it.

·       The only way it will be affective is if you spam the ability however you will lose out on energy doing so plus you can`t control what enemy you want it to hit and (in other ppl`s eyes) why do that when you can use bs? There is no distinction between the two.

 

Smoke Screen

·       The duration of it is low and even though I don`t have any issue with it I understand why other ppl would.

 

Teleport

·       When teleporting to enemies it`s not consistent in opening them up to finishers.

·       People use it`s augment as a bandade coz the bug which means the ability on its own is bad.

·       On consoles it`s changed to where the finisher prompt is separate from the melee button which makes it which kind of brakes the flow of it.

·       If a enemy is under a stun, it can`t interrupt it to be able to open them up to a finisher.

 

Bladestorm

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

Based on my older post about Ash, my post is the most popular when it comes to ppl giving ideas on Ash`s abilities reason being is coz I've been talking to ppl on the ps4 and listened to ppl`s issues with Ash to the point of where I have over 400+ ppl the like my bs idea and said they wanted it to be implemented to Ash.

Here is the link to the post, tell me what you think on that post and tell me if my changes will make you play Ash more.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1253877-ash-the-posibilities-of-ability-improvements/

 

 

 

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb SECURATYYY:

Man the real conclave is the forums huh?

The forums kinda reminds me on the people of my country. Everyone is direct and don't understand fun. Except you know this person. Guees which country I'm talking about?🤣😂🤣

vor 4 Stunden schrieb SECURATYYY:

((Also also, his 1 should throw three shurikens. Two is just a weird number to me.))

But he has just two hands. With which one should he throw the third shuriken? Or does he use use his mouth like roronaro Zorro with his three sword style?🤔🤔🤔

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18 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

But he has just two hands. With which one should he throw the third shuriken? Or does he use use his mouth like roronaro Zorro with his three sword style?🤔🤔🤔

He throws both with one hand so not really sure.

 

There will never be one solution that will satisfy everyone. Ash has a lot of problems both mechanically and functionally. I don't think his abilities should be swapped out, they just need touched up/ improved. The list above the guy posted has a lot of things in it that have already changed, mainly the marking enemies mechanic.

Change the targeting mechanic for his 4th. General consensus is: too slow, too clunky. Damage is something the balancing folks at DE will have to address.

Smoke bomb duration is too short.

Shurikens are fine imo. Wall piercing, autoaiming, slash procing (boosted by his passive), spammable, strips armor with augment... Pretty good for a first ability especially in comparison to other frames. You can speedrun exterminates with this alone. Only suggestion is to throw 3 of them instead of 2.

Teleport should let you teleport anywhere, not require a target.

 

Would be nice to see his signature arm blades have more of a use.

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