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At What Point Do You Give Up on the Grind?


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So, as a relatively new player to Warframe, I was curious what the general community's take on that question is - I'm not trying to start a debate about how grindy is 'too grindy'; I'm just asking, at what point do you say 'okay, this just isn't worth it any more; no matter how entertaining the ultimate frame/weapon I'm chasing might be, it's just not worth doing an activity I no longer find fun'? I've been grinding for Khora's Neuroptics for nearly a week now - several dozen runs at least - and it's at the point where I'm doing everything I can to not play the game whilst I'm playing the game: I'm using Wukong and a Vulpaphyla so the two of them can do all the work, and I'm literally just standing in a corner for half the match whilst I read on my phone rather than, you know, actually playing. (Don't worry, I'm doing these solo, I wouldn't do that in a public match.)

So the question, again: when does the tedium of repetition overwhelm the desire to get the shiny thing you're after? Should I just give up on getting Khora? It's not like I don't have other stuff to do in the game, and I'm at the point where I feel like I either need to quit trying to get this, or I'm going to quit Warframe all together. But at the same time, the sunk cost fallacy is real: that's probably ten hours of my life, wasted, grinding out Khora's blueprints - you can't even say 'oh, at least I was gathering other resources', because there aren't any in that particular game mode. And it's really hard to 'let that go', because if I do, that means I have wasted those hours, and that makes it hard to work up any enthusiasm for the rest of the game, given that I feel like I'm just going to hit another 'waste' around the corner. 

Thoughts?

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I tend to give up when it becomes apparent that farming prime stuff to sell is a more effective way to get what I am after. Then it’s just a case of doing that and buying the thing. That or not playing the game for a while.

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Posted (edited)

This only applies to things with absolute trash rng or trash dropchances (0.X% mods for example).

If I can buy it: When farming the plat for it in trade chat is/seems faster and less annoying.

If I can't buy it: I don't give up. I might take an extended break from the content though and come back later.

When the farm tackles multiple things early on, like Deimos Vaults (standing, arcana, necramech mods, weapon parts etc.) I play it without issues. I just get annoyed when I'm missing one or two things and they wont drop and I have to repeat it over and over for what is basically nothing. This - for me - caused a lot of dislike for certain areas and I never play them again once I got what I wanted because all the fun it might have been got sucked out and replaced by aversion and disdain (Eidolons and Deimos Vaults for example).

I really liked Orphix Venom for being different in that regard. No matter what, you progressed to what you wanted by playing it. There was a maximum estimation to the end point of the grind and you weren't reliant on your luck.

Edited by (PSN)Deeceem
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Posted (edited)

I tend to go through cycles where I play Warframe a lot; opposite these cycles I tend to log in for rewards every few days and/or do fashion frame stuff while working on my builds.

To put it in perspective. In mission I have like 1300 hours but I have around 3000 hours actually in game (in orbiter, simulacrum, relays etc.) over the last 6 years or so.

Edited by Leqesai
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Personally it's more on how or what the grind is than how long it is. 

Mods: I wouldn't say I go out of my way to exactly farm them.

Weapons or frames: It depends. Something like Khora in your example. You can also level frames there. Take the frame and a decent melee and you can solo onslaught for the Khora farm. Which is how I farmed it.

Things like Disruption. I absolutely don't find any joy in. So when I farmed Gauss, I gave myself 1 hour. If I didn't get it then I would just buy him because I could get the plat faster through trading. 

Trinity which is farming Ambulus. The worst assassination in the game in my opinion. I gave myself 5 runs to get the missing piece I needed before I was going to buy her. 

If it's something like a mission that lasts 2-3 minutes for a quick farm. Then sure it sucks doing it 20 times to get the systems blueprint for a frame but it's a quick mission for each attempt.

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46 minutes ago, (XBOX)Dylan OConor said:

So, as a relatively new player to Warframe, I was curious what the general community's take on that question is - I'm not trying to start a debate about how grindy is 'too grindy'; I'm just asking, at what point do you say 'okay, this just isn't worth it any more; no matter how entertaining the ultimate frame/weapon I'm chasing might be, it's just not worth doing an activity I no longer find fun'? I've been grinding for Khora's Neuroptics for nearly a week now - several dozen runs at least - and it's at the point where I'm doing everything I can to not play the game whilst I'm playing the game: I'm using Wukong and a Vulpaphyla so the two of them can do all the work, and I'm literally just standing in a corner for half the match whilst I read on my phone rather than, you know, actually playing. (Don't worry, I'm doing these solo, I wouldn't do that in a public match.)

So the question, again: when does the tedium of repetition overwhelm the desire to get the shiny thing you're after? Should I just give up on getting Khora? It's not like I don't have other stuff to do in the game, and I'm at the point where I feel like I either need to quit trying to get this, or I'm going to quit Warframe all together. But at the same time, the sunk cost fallacy is real: that's probably ten hours of my life, wasted, grinding out Khora's blueprints - you can't even say 'oh, at least I was gathering other resources', because there aren't any in that particular game mode. And it's really hard to 'let that go', because if I do, that means I have wasted those hours, and that makes it hard to work up any enthusiasm for the rest of the game, given that I feel like I'm just going to hit another 'waste' around the corner. 

Thoughts?

I find that the best way to deal with grind burnout is to grind passively.   Instead of doing a single activity over and over again hoping for a drop,  do the activity as part of your daily routine and it'll eventually drop.    I got Khora while farming affinity for new warframes.   I got Blazing Step while farming affinity for weapons.    

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I pick whatever I want to do and if I get bored I go do something else. This also means I will likely take more time getting something than the real grinders out there. But meh, I generally always have fun playing which to me is the key part. I know that eventually I'll get that next frame or weapon. I don't need it now or tomorrow.

Khora's pretty easy to get actually. Just play a bit of Sanctuary Onslaught and you should be good. I've been fairly lucky with my drops in general though so I'm not a good reference for how grindy things can get. I think I played SO about 8 times and got all the parts.

For me, I know I don't play the game as optimal or efficient as possible, but I don't care. I tend to combine activities so I don't have to focus on a single thing. If something takes forever to obtain (farming resources) I will only do it if I can focus on something else while doing it. Because blindly tunneling towards a single aspect and going braindead with a sinlge mission or area that I have to complete over and over because it saves me an hour of my time is actually a waste of my time. Because doing that is not fun for me. I rather take twice as long doing something I enjoy (or don't mind). That way it rarely seems like a grind.

Going for credits only when I have a booster active. Forma frames and weapons, only when I have a booster active. Looking for Toroids, Cetus Wisps, etc only when I have a booster active. There's tons of free boosters you can get during events or just login bonus or from completing a sortie. During the first credit booster event (2 weeks ago) I had another login credit booster and played a bit of Railjack and earned 25million. It's not much for vets, but I was at about 500K at one point and I don't like doing Index too much so.

My point is, doing it this way is not optimal in terms of actual time investment, but the value of this time investment is more important to me. So grind is put to a minimum. It's like that for me with Ivara as well. I never ever looked for her parts. One day I realized I had all her parts and built her.

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For grinding items, I give myself 3 days. Once I feel not progressing in a grind I’ll call it a day and start again on the next day. If on the 3rd day I still not get it, then it’s plat spending time.

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Our answers should generally differ, just because we have different goals, tolerance thresholds, enjoyment factors, time blocks, RNG/Luck, play styles etc etc, so we all need to craft personalised strategies and solutions when it comes to barriers in the game. For example, when I first started playing Warframe, Jupiter's Gas City was one of my least favourite locations. Too many random traps, parkour spots, with a confusing map layout etc, I played it when I needed to but avoided it. Last few days however, going through the tile set, realising how much better at the game I am, I realised I actually really enjoy the map, so I set about doing the various secret puzzle rooms there and I got Vengeful Revenant stance for the first time, and some Broken War bits. I would never go do those secret rooms just to get those items... I wouldn't enjoy it, but it was a nice bonus. 

Alternatively the Warframe I had the most trouble getting was Wisp. I had to fight the Ropalolyst over 50 times. First 5 or 6 times were the hardest, ;earning the fight, dealing with annoyances and inconveniences, and doing it what I thought was the "proper way" (fighting every single enemy on the way), until I optimised my set up, and started doing the run much much faster. Then in doing so, I started to enjoy it more, just the act of optimising my play style, improving, getting better, finding it easier etc plus I do like using the Rubico. Yeah around run 30 plus it started to get boring again, but I started listening to a podcast and I was really excited to get Wisp, so I persisted. Plus on some level I was enjoying. If I wasn't? I would have moved on. I've also had great luck with getting some Frames fast, Equinox, my second Nidus, Khora, even second Wisp (since I had so many Wisp parts already) much easier. 

Khora's Neuroptics is B rotation right? 6 zones I think, for myself, thats not too bad, since I like SO and ESO for weapon testing, build testing etc but most importantly thats just me. If you are getting frustrated you should take a break, and explore the rest of the game. You can always resume later. Or not, it depends. Have you mastered all the weapons? If you pick up 10 new weapons? You could always go to SO to level them up, especially if you find one you enjoy, and want to Forma it. Maybe a new Warframe build? You might not get many resources at SO but you do get a lot of levels, plus there is an Affinity Weekend coming soon. Or maybe you have played too much SO recently so you need a bigger break. Thats fine too, you might save up some Plat elsewhere and get a Discount or something, and can just outright buy Khora that way. I brought my first Nidus with Plat and don't regret it at all, I wanted him earlier, because he looked fun, and is one of my most used. Plus eventually I did grind him normally, but got pretty lucky. 

My overarching advice is to look for ways to help make the grind enjoyable, for yourself. Sometimes thats time, sometimes thats experience/knowledge, sometimes thats something more specific ourselves. Then sometimes you can just skip it with Plat.

Good luck! 

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Basically for as long as it's fun.  I always try to make sure I'm getting paid for any particular things at least 2 or 3 times.  In the case of SO (khora farm) I can also do focus farming, and affinity farming.  Basically mix it up.  Play for fun.  For me I ended up with tons of extra khora stuff because I did so much SO for the other stuff, stuff you can feel progress each and every mission.  It also helps the soul if you check the wiki for "expected runs" and track how many you've done.

If something gets too bad (deadlock protocol stuff is a big example, harrow is another) I'll take a break and farm something less soul crushing.  And yeah I have given up on some farming altogether (I accept that hema will likely be the only weapon I will never own.)  Or intended to give up forever but something changes that makes the farm really easy (korrudo and the introduction of voidrig.)  I accept I will never get a full collection of lich ephemeras, especially since they will probably be moving to railjack very soon.

 

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17 minutes ago, mkah_mvet said:

Basically for as long as it's fun.  I always try to make sure I'm getting paid for any particular things at least 2 or 3 times.  In the case of SO (khora farm) I can also do focus farming, and affinity farming.  Basically mix it up.  Play for fun.  For me I ended up with tons of extra khora stuff because I did so much SO for the other stuff, stuff you can feel progress each and every mission.  It also helps the soul if you check the wiki for "expected runs" and track how many you've done.

If something gets too bad (deadlock protocol stuff is a big example, harrow is another) I'll take a break and farm something less soul crushing.  And yeah I have given up on some farming altogether (I accept that hema will likely be the only weapon I will never own.)  Or intended to give up forever but something changes that makes the farm really easy (korrudo and the introduction of voidrig.)  I accept I will never get a full collection of lich ephemeras, especially since they will probably be moving to railjack very soon.

 

Hema has really no hard to get requirements. Are you confusing it with something else?  If you've played for a bit you should have all the components. This weapon requires no farming at all...

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17 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Hema has really no hard to get requirements. Are you confusing it with something else?  If you've played for a bit you should have all the components. This weapon requires no farming at all...

research requires a bazillion mutagen samples that I'm not gonna do.  I know the strategies and the setups, but I'm not gonna do it.  Not gonna put myself through that for that.

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36 minutes ago, mkah_mvet said:

research requires a bazillion mutagen samples that I'm not gonna do.  I know the strategies and the setups, but I'm not gonna do it.  Not gonna put myself through that for that.

You mean you have your own clan and want to get it through there? I mean... that's like masochism and in no way necessary. There's plenty of clans you can join that have no requirements. Building the thing requires 5 mutagen mass and a bunch of common resources. 

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2 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

I mean... that's like masochism and in no way necessary.

Which could also be said about the built weapon itself, and also circles back to the topic at hand... at what point do you just say eff it?  For me, right there.

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It depends on few things:

- can I use things I enjoy (e.g. certain frames, weapons or modes)? One reason I don't do RJ is that I don't like it.

- how hard is to get something OR can I at least get something from doing small things many times? I've played Orphix Venom event with rent-a-meh because I could beat 3-12 Orphixes. It wasn't a lot but it was doable.

- what's the reward? Is it good? Again, Orphix event gave me a lot: Frame parts, Arcane energize 4/5, weapons, Simulacrum and probably something else. There is little bit of subjectivity. I don't like mechs so I don't think I will build my first mech.

- can I get it different way? For solo player certain elements are bad. For example opening relics is big joke. I have recently run 24 Radiant relics and I have gotten only common stuffs. I'm not going to open relics if I know in most cases I won't get anything good. I will sell other stuffs in order to buy missing parts. I do the same with Frames/weapons that require massive RNG/grind or locked in something I don't like (RJ).

 

Of course things may change in a future. You may fail miserably one day but tomorrow you can "cheese it".

 

ps. Khora, Harrow Priest will get PRime version, which is easier to get. So you may wait.... Unless you want your little Helminth to eat them.

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)Dylan OConor said:

At What Point Do You Give Up on the Grind?

... At the point where the game ceases to exist.

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5 minutes ago, mkah_mvet said:

Which could also be said about the built weapon itself, and also circles back to the topic at hand... at what point do you just say eff it?  For me, right there.

Not sure what you're refering to though. To build it the weapon costs 5 mutagen mass, 50K salvage, 5K circuits and a forma. I'm not sure on what planet those things would take more than an hour to get if you really go for it.

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I never give up on any grind. Because i never grind.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Dylan OConor said:

I'm using Wukong and a Vulpaphyla so the two of them can do all the work, and I'm literally just standing in a corner for half the match whilst I read on my phone rather than, you know, actually playing.

That's your problem right there.

You're so laser focused on getting khora, you actually stop playing warframe. Your eyes maybe looking at your phone, but your mind is waiting for khora. And when you didn't get her, all those "smart idea of using wukong" just became a huge waste of time in your own perspective.

I never farmed for khora. I used s.o to level up my frames and weapons. I just got her somewhere along the way.

Doing a couple of things at the same time could really help. For instance, i looked for those pesky lua challenges while doing spy for ivara parts, and blood rush. I farmed kavat dnas while looking for orokin vaults. So every missions i always feel like i accomplished a couple of things. What you did is the complete opposite: you didn't play the game at all, you try to waste your time by distracting yourself with your phone, and inevitably feel bummed when you didn't get anything.

I also saw a great advice up there to make your targets as daily routines. Swallowing all of the grind in one go will eventually burn anyone out. Take it easy, do one or two s.o a day, try to plan and make other stuff. You won't even feel the grind.

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4 hours ago, hyzmarca said:

I find that the best way to deal with grind burnout is to grind passively.   Instead of doing a single activity over and over again hoping for a drop,  do the activity as part of your daily routine and it'll eventually drop.    I got Khora while farming affinity for new warframes.   I got Blazing Step while farming affinity for weapons.    

Pretty much this right here. Find a way to passively farm or farm multiple things at once

I never actually tried to farm Khora. I passively farmed Khora by running SO when I was ranking a new frame or adding forma to one I liked. I would take my melee weapon that had a focus lens installed so I could earn some daily focus at the same time. I'd also take any random MR fodder primary/secondary weapons to rank. If I didn't have any other MR fodder I'd take primary/secondary with a lens or add forma to something. 

It kinda just became habit to run SO when I ranked/forma a frame and I now have enought blueprints to make 6 full Khora after building my own and feeding one to the wall. 

 

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12 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

I pick whatever I want to do and if I get bored I go do something else. This also means I will likely take more time getting something than the real grinders out there. But meh, I generally always have fun playing which to me is the key part. I know that eventually I'll get that next frame or weapon. I don't need it now or tomorrow.

Khora's pretty easy to get actually. Just play a bit of Sanctuary Onslaught and you should be good. I've been fairly lucky with my drops in general though so I'm not a good reference for how grindy things can get. I think I played SO about 8 times and got all the parts.

For me, I know I don't play the game as optimal or efficient as possible, but I don't care. I tend to combine activities so I don't have to focus on a single thing. If something takes forever to obtain (farming resources) I will only do it if I can focus on something else while doing it. Because blindly tunneling towards a single aspect and going braindead with a sinlge mission or area that I have to complete over and over because it saves me an hour of my time is actually a waste of my time. Because doing that is not fun for me. I rather take twice as long doing something I enjoy (or don't mind). That way it rarely seems like a grind.

Going for credits only when I have a booster active. Forma frames and weapons, only when I have a booster active. Looking for Toroids, Cetus Wisps, etc only when I have a booster active. There's tons of free boosters you can get during events or just login bonus or from completing a sortie. During the first credit booster event (2 weeks ago) I had another login credit booster and played a bit of Railjack and earned 25million. It's not much for vets, but I was at about 500K at one point and I don't like doing Index too much so.

My point is, doing it this way is not optimal in terms of actual time investment, but the value of this time investment is more important to me. So grind is put to a minimum. It's like that for me with Ivara as well. I never ever looked for her parts. One day I realized I had all her parts and built her.

I came here to say this, but you've said it all for me! I've been playing the game for years, and I partly attribute that to a similar approach. 

 

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If its particularly egregious I dont bother. If it's something where I'm achieving other stuff while doing so I'm quite happy to do so for a bit.

Also depends on how much time I *want* to put into game, and this varies.

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Theres nothing you're supposed to do, theres nowhere you're supposed to go. Life is a gift and its up to you to choose what to do with your time. Dont think of it as wasting time, most of what we do is ultimately wasting time. There is clearly something in warframe you enjoy, otherwise you wouldn't be debating this. Just take a break from khora for a little, dive back into it next time nightwave tells you too.

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the question mostly seems to be about the onslaught grind for Khora. her prime its expected at the later part of this year.

at this time it would be pointless to farm her, slip a potato into her, then forma her too, so yeah would be a hard pass and just wait for her prime because you will have todo that all over again unless you only want the mastery/helminth? then you probably get her from random onslaught leveling without trying sooner or later.

if the question is about general grind I can only reiterate what others have said, do something you find fun that drops stuff you can sell and buy the elusive item with plat.

if that still isn't doing it for you no harm in taking a break for a few months .

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If something takes me too long to farm the normal way, I find an alternative way to get it. 

I go farm and open relics and sell those pieces to just buy the frame outright in the market. Or farm ayatans in arbitration and sell those. There is always going to be a quicker method than outright farming for something directly. But there's the chance that you get the parts you need right away. RNG can be nice like that...just not always. To each their own. 

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