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Why Rivens Suck, and an easy way to fix that


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The idea of having to do something to unveil a riven is a nice touch, but the random factor is really freakin' annoying. My first riven mod i get is for the Zurge, a crossbow I had never ven heard of until now, and STILL don't plan to use. Given the sheer number of weapons, I highly doubt I'll get a mod for the Sybaris and Afuris at random.

Here's my proposal; have the riven mod match the weapon it's equipped to. Is that too much to ask?

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Unfortunately yes. AFAIK, rivens are a real money maker for DE, so i doubt they will change them. But hey, at least we'll get Riven ciphers to bypass riven challenges from Teshin using Steel Essence acquired from Steel Path, so there's that!

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Posted (edited)

Bad idea. 

Rivens have a purpose of adding some variety by significantly enhancing weapons other then the current meta.  Your approach would ensure that players only ever see Rivens for weapons they're already using. 

At which point all Rivens become ones for the current meta, and their measured popularity causes the riven affinity for those weapons to drop to where rivens for them are nearly useless.

Then all Rivens are very weak and used solely for meta equipment, making them totally fail to serve any purpose.

 

 

Edited by Phatose
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The purpose of rivens was to have players be given a reason to explore old weapons as well as try to bridge the gap between the popular and not so popular weapons. Whether that purpose has been adequately achieved is debatable.

Your suggestion goes against that philosophy so i do not see it happening ,

DE also enjoys RNG as a gating and power check mechanic a little too much.

And then there is the business angle , Rivens generate interest from players , they directly (direct purchase)  or indirectly (trades and playtime) sink plat due to it,

this will put positive values in their report.

Rivens are also not an essential element for gameplay (they do make things more convenient) , so i have no interest in any changes that make it so.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

there's an easy fix, ignore their existence, you don't have to use rivens for any content in the game anyway.

This.

Minmaxers make a huge deal out of them because they're friggin pain to work with. And they want to justify their life choices, it's perfectly normal.

But the truth is, half of the noobs and intermediate players are better off grinding plats to buy more prime mods or just make better builds, instead of wasting their time with rivens.

Community asked for an "endgame content", so DE gave them: an rng mod, acquired by rng, with rng values, for players who have plenty of time and have absolutely ran out of things to do in the game. Probably chance to revisit some of the weapons that they didn't care before.

The rest of us shouldn't bother.

Edited by Soy77
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Soy77:

This.

Minmaxers make a huge deal out of them because they're friggin pain to work with. And they want to justify their life choices, it's perfectly normal.

But the truth is, half of the noobs and intermediate players are better off grinding plats to buy more prime mods or just make better builds, instead of wasting their time with rivens.

Community asked for an "endgame content", so DE gave them: an rng mod, acquired by rng, with rng values, for players who have plenty of time and have absolutely ran out of things to do in the game. The rest of us shouldn't bother.

I am such a player and I don't bother. I might actually invest into rivens if I could have one for all weapons. But since I am limited to 180, well, I don't really care. Fact: You can easily do the same without Rivens than with Rivens. Use them for what they were intended: If you have an off meta weapon that you like, you can make this weapon more competitive.

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The rivens are fully RNG. They are not supposed to be made for weapons you WANT to make them for. They are supposed to give extra reasons to play weapons that either fallen behind power creep, or maybe something you didn't used before.

DE's idea is that now you got a Zhuge riven and maybe a nice one as well - that should give you a kick to go and make Zhuge for once, just to see how it works with this riven for the sake of it. You don't want it - that's fine, transmute and make another one.

People are too attached to the idea that rivens are some form of power acquisition when their entire design purpose is fun-factor to try and use them on unpopular, forgotten weapons just for the kick of it. Or try to fix some old poor rusty thing that doesn't perform quiet well anymore. I.E. Magnus or something.

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54 minutes ago, Brinstar7777 said:

Here's my proposal; have the riven mod match the weapon it's equipped to. Is that too much to ask?

In general? Yeah.

But if there was an additional cost each time to activate the feature and the resulting riven was account bound...maybe.

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Riven are fine, you can trade if really want
Otherwise you use the weapons you won't normally use because of rivens

Some people want to easily obtain max values which is random so they cry and rant

Overall riven system is one of the best thing in warframe

PS anyone paying a lot of plat for rivens are the problem not the system

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26 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

Community asked for an "endgame content", so DE gave them: an rng mod, acquired by rng, with rng values, for players who have plenty of time and have absolutely ran out of things to do in the game. Probably chance to revisit some of the weapons that they didn't care before.

I don't disagree with your points and I've said similar in the past (moreso relating to it being a past-time for people with entirely too much traded plat in inventory already)

I will say though that Rivens came about from an entirely innocent request regarding finding ways to bridge the power gap between top tier gear and low level/ Gen 1 gear.

Much like ducats, what the players legit asked for wasn't what they wound up getting upon implementation.

@Brinstar7777
I would suggest checking warframe.market to find a cheap riven and talking to that player as they will sometimes take trades in lieu of plat (depends on the player)

I don't personally use the zhuge but would be inclined to think it's a more popular weapon than the sybaris and would be fairly easy to trade for what you want if the stats on the riven are decent.

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1 hour ago, Phatose said:

Bad idea. 

Rivens have a purpose of adding some variety by significantly enhancing weapons other then the current meta.  Your approach would ensure that players only ever see Rivens for weapons they're already using. 

At which point all Rivens become ones for the current meta, and their measured popularity causes the riven affinity for those weapons to drop to where rivens for them are nearly useless.

Then all Rivens are very weak and used solely for meta equipment, making them totally fail to serve any purpose.

 

 

... Is this in any way different from how things are now?

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Letting you choose the Riven you get would create more problems than it would solve. We would be flooded with rivens for meta weapons and the disposition system would become even more volatile as the new flavor of the month and rediscovered weapons are guaranteed to tank every disposition update.

As well any commonly used weapons (like the Sybaris and Afuris due to their anniversary variants) would also tank due to everyone being guaranteed to get a riven for them.

And giving disposition the axe to solve that issue would also cause problems. Freezing dispositions after rolling and creating grandfathered rivens would create drama regardless of them being tradable or not. While doing away with disposition entirely would either make Rivens "worthless" or turn them into even bigger sources of powercreep and warrant manual adjustments regardless thus defeating the original purpose of removing disposition.

 

Rivens do need improvements but to remove rng from them we would need them fully reimagined from the ground up and likely result in them taking far more grind than they already do.

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At this point I don't think they'll mess with it ever besides just lowering dispositions

2 hours ago, Phatose said:

Rivens have a purpose of adding some variety by significantly enhancing weapons other then the current meta

And that's not exactly what we see happening is it?

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3 hours ago, Kaggelos said:

Unfortunately yes. AFAIK, rivens are a real money maker for DE, 

I really don't believe they are

Oh sure you need platinum to trade them, but not in a way that makes DE any money. You didn't see a riven in the trade chat, log out of the game, buy platinum, log back in, and then buy the riven. No that plat came from your old stockpile. And it didn't get removed from circulation, it didn't actually get spent: it got moved to a different player's stockpile.

No, DE makes money from Prime Access, Vault Access, and daily coupons. And new weapons, and Tennogen skins, and Deluxe Skins. Riven trading is a distant seventh place compared to all that

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Never liked the idea of rivens anyway. If a weapon needs a riven to be good then it was never a good weapon in the first place. I get that people like to use them on their favourite weapons that are strong but at that point the weapon can already do fine without a riven so it's not worth spending a S#&$ ton of plat on it. 

What I'm trying to say is that weapons that need a riven to be decent aren't worth investing in and the weapons that were good to begin with can already clear everything in the game without one so I've just never seen the point in them. 

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3 minutes ago, Brinstar7777 said:

Uhh, what's the 7th company? Do I even want to know?

You all have several 7s in your name. 5 people are tagged, we need 2 more to make 7, thus completing the 7th company.

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Posted (edited)

For rivens, your best move is going with semi good weapons, since high-end, popular weapons have weak riven disposition, and, are expensive.

You should be able to get a riven for 20-60 plat off the auction house no problem.

Then you do daily steel path alerts to convert to kuva and steadily put in work, smooth sailing.

You can also buy up the popular ones with crap stats, re-rolling for good stats and flip for plat.

The absolutely last thing you want to do, is go grind it out manually. Like buying stacks of unveiled, then hoping to get a specific weapon, or farming stacks of rare relics, to some damned neuroptics or whatever, Loki, Rhino etc aside. That's for suckers.

You need to think in 'plat per minute'.

If it's possible to buy it with plat, can you grind it out manually faster than your plat per minute. Most of the time not.

https://warframe.market/auctions/search?type=riven&weapon_url_name=sybaris&polarity=any&sort_by=price_asc
https://warframe.market/auctions/search?type=riven&weapon_url_name=afuris&polarity=any&sort_by=price_asc

 

Though, I'd recommend you only invest in rivens for weapons, you know you are going to hang on to long term.

Edited by Surbusken
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