Kuva weapons - how bonus damage type works?

[quxier]

Quote

Element	Progenitor Warframe*
Impact	Baruuk •  Gauss •  Grendel •  Rhino •  Sevagoth •  Wukong •  Zephyr
Heat	Chroma •  Ember •  Inaros •  Nezha •  Protea •  Vauban •  Wisp
Cold	Frost •  Gara •  Hildryn •  Revenant •  Titania •  Trinity
Electricity	Banshee •  Excalibur •  Limbo •  Nova •  Valkyr •  Volt
Toxin	Atlas •  Ivara •  Khora •  Nekros •  Nidus •  Oberon •  Saryn
Magnetic	Harrow •  Hydroid •  Lavos •  Mag •  Mesa •  Xaku
Radiation	Ash •  Equinox •  Garuda •  Loki •  Mirage •  Nyx •  Octavia

If I pick Impact, Magnetic and Radiation then I will have those damage types on my weapon. When I mod for Magnetic, Radiation or Impact then those damages will just add together.

 

What happens when I pick Heat, Cold, Electricity and Toxin? Will my unmoded weapon have those damage types? Or would they combine (e.g. into Viral) somehow?

When you mod weapon, do damage types combine (e.g. Weapon have Toxin and I add Cold. Would it create Viral or will it stay as Toxin + Cold).

When they combine, how do they combine? Does the Kuva's damage type combine with last or first mod (e.g Kuva have Toxin; Cold & Heat gives Toxin + Blast? Or Viral + Heat?)?

[Berzerkules]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Unmodded Heat Bramma

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Heat Bramma with one elemental damage mod. Modded element and base element combine. Heat+Tox = Gas

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Heat Bramma modded with two elemental damage mods. The first two elemental damage mods combine and heat is treated as an elemental damage mod slotted after every other mod. Tox + Cold = Viral with base heat damage

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Heat Bramma modded with 3 elemental damage mods. The first two elemental damage mods combine and the third damage mods combines with base elemental damage. Tox + Cold = Viral Electric + base Heat = Rad

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Unmodded Rad Bramma

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Rad Bramma modded with one elemental damage mod. Even though Heat + Electric = Rad adding electric damage mod does not combine with Rad to increase Rad damage. Electric damage + base Rad

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Rad Bramma modded with two elemental damage mods. Those two mods combine Electric + Tox = Corrosive with base Rad

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Rad Bramma with three elemental damage mods. First two damage mods combine Electric + Tox = Corrosive + Heat + base Rad damage. Again the Heat damage does not combine with Rad damage even though Heat + Electric = Rad

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[Berzerkules]

1 hour ago, Proscriptor said:

innate heat can't be described as a mod, it's a component of base damage, not a mod. 

You already said that earlier in the thread. 

OP was asking how elements combine on kuva weapons. When combining elements on a kuva weapon you can think of the base elemental damage type as a mod in an imaginary mod slot that exists after every other mod. For modding purposes it is an easy way to describe it. 

If you have a better way to explain it for OP go for it. As it is, you've contributed nothing to the thread besides stating the obvious fact that the innate elemental damage on a kuva weapon is not a mod.

[quxier]

11 hours ago, Proscriptor said:

On 2021-05-14 at 9:48 AM, quxier said:

 

if someone believed that innate elemental damage worked "essentially" the same as an elemental damage mod, they would not realize that the percentage on a kuva weapon affects base damage, which makes for a different damage calculation. 

Ah, you mean damage wise. That's indeed correct however it's not in the scope of this thread. Thank you for explaining nevertheless.

[NinjaZeku]

7 hours ago, Proscriptor said:

affects base damage, which makes for a different damage calculation

Nobody cares about damage, this is about elemental combining order, and nothing else.

[Proscriptor]

for example on kuva ogris which is a popular kuva weapon, let's equip it only with nightwatch napalm for starters

60% cold ogris would have higher dmg Nightwatch Napalm procs than a 25% heat ogris with a heat 90% heat mod added

[Proscriptor]

On 2021-05-14 at 9:48 AM, quxier said:

Ok, what's "superfluous & misleading" about saying it's a mod? What's the big problem?

if someone believed that innate elemental damage worked "essentially" the same as an elemental damage mod, they would not realize that the percentage on a kuva weapon affects base damage, which makes for a different damage calculation. 

if the base damage of a kuva weapon prior to the kuva elemental bonus was 100 dmg, the same weapon's base damage with the minimum bonus of 25% would be 125 dmg, and with the maximum bonus of 60% it would be 160 dmg

if you were to add a +100% elemental damage mod to the latter, you would be doing 160 (base dmg) + 160x1 (el. dmg mod) = 320 dmg

if the kuva elemental bonus was the same as a mod, you would be doing 100 (base dmg) + 60 (kuva bonus) + 100x1 (el. dmg mod) = 260 dmg

likewise, bleed proc damage (from Hunter Munitions for example), and Nightwatch Napalm damage is increased by the kuva elemental bonus, because it's a base damage increase, and is not increased by modded elemental damage. 

[quxier]

16 hours ago, Proscriptor said:

it's superfluous and misleading to speak of base elemental damage as a "mod" because it's fundamentally different

what the OP needs to hear to understand in which order elements combine is that innate elemental damage comes last in the mix. that's the whole truth, and describing it as a mod is not the truth. 

Ok, what's "superfluous & misleading" about saying it's a mod? What's the big problem?

[NinjaZeku]

26 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

you're not saying it how it is. look at this: 

Yeah okay, that post clearly said that there was actually, truly, a Mod.

It was not simply a way to explain it, it literally meant Mod.

You're correct, carry on.

[Proscriptor]

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Nobody is actually saying it is a Mod, or works exactly like a Mod in all regards.

 

you're not saying it how it is. look at this: 

 

On 2021-05-12 at 6:43 PM, McCIoud said:

The Kuva weapon damage bonus is essentially an extra mod at the end of the mod order. ...

 

[NinjaZeku]

5 minutes ago, Proscriptor said:

it's superfluous and misleading to speak of base elemental damage as a "mod" because it's fundamentally different

Nobody is actually saying it is a Mod, or works exactly like a Mod in all regards.

It's just a simple way to explain how innate elements combine with Mods,
and one which, to my knowledge, nobody ever had an issue with, until you came along.

Personally, I'm with you when it comes to not using a misleading explanation if not down-right misinformation, but this ... isn't.

This is fine.

[Proscriptor]

it's superfluous and misleading to speak of base elemental damage as a "mod" because it's fundamentally different

what the OP needs to hear to understand in which order elements combine is that innate elemental damage comes last in the mix. that's the whole truth, and describing it as a mod is not the truth. 

[Proscriptor]

17 hours ago, McCIoud said:

It isn't what?

This is exactly how it works when modding for damage types.

Imagine an extra mod slot at the end, that is where the Kuva element would be.

I never said anything about how the elements damage number not being based on the weapons base damage.

Don't talk if you don't know anything.

your statement was false and i corrected it. don't talk if you can't express yourself accurately. 

 

  

12 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

. . .

Heat Bramma modded with two elemental damage mods. The first two elemental damage mods combine and heat is treated as an elemental damage mod slotted after every other mod. Tox + Cold = Viral with base heat damage

. . .

innate heat can't be described as a mod, it's a component of base damage, not a mod. 

[McCIoud]

3 hours ago, Proscriptor said:

it isn't. 

kuva weapon elemental damage is a component of base damage. 

It isn't what?

This is exactly how it works when modding for damage types.

Imagine an extra mod slot at the end, that is where the Kuva element would be.

I never said anything about how the elements damage number not being based on the weapons base damage.

Don't talk if you don't know anything.

[Proscriptor]

3 hours ago, McCIoud said:

The Kuva weapon damage bonus is essentially an extra mod at the end of the mod order. So if you have gas and magnetic on a weapon that has a heat bonus, the heat will add into the gas damage.

If you have a combined damage bonus like radiation or magnetic you can mod for 3 combined elements at once.

it isn't. 

kuva weapon elemental damage is a component of base damage. 

[taiiat]

super quick bullet points:

• the 60% Bonus increases the Base Damage that all of your Damage Mods will base themselves on, by up to an extra 60%. so a 60% Kuva Weapon deals 60% more Damage at all times than if it did not have such a bonus.
• yes, if the bonus is a single Elemental it will combine with Elements you add to the Weapon. mixing last, like other base Elemental Weapons.

[_Tormex_]

Only one element can be the innate element on a weapon. If you have a heat Kuva Ogris for example and valence fuse an electric Kuva Ogris onto it, your innate element will be electric.

[McCIoud]

The Kuva weapon damage bonus is essentially an extra mod at the end of the mod order. So if you have gas and magnetic on a weapon that has a heat bonus, the heat will add into the gas damage.

If you have a combined damage bonus like radiation or magnetic you can mod for 3 combined elements at once.

[maycne.sonahoz]

Bonus element type combines like any innate elemental type (added last).