Repair Dispensary was a terrible idea.

[Nira]

I usually title my feedback with a little more of a positive angle on it, but besides being in an Exilus polarity I can't think of a single saving grace of this new augment for Protea.

The playerbase has been asking for a universal means of keeping sentinel companions alive for quite some time, and it's been a topic of increasing discussion forum-side. There's been a lot of great suggestions, the most obvious and practical of which would be to give sentinels access to the "Link" mods literally every other companion in the game can use.

Tying the ability to regain our Guardian, Vacuum, Animal Instinct etc etc to one frame's ability (moreover a seemingly arbitrarily-selected one) is very limiting. Yes, Dispensary can be subsumed by the Helminth, but that's assuming both that the player has access to Helminth system, and is inclined to use it in the first place. Not to mention he already comes with an ability to revive companions.

I'd have begrudgingly accepted the bandaid if Repair Dispensary's cooldown was affected by ability duration, and/or if it refreshed the number of charges on the sentinel's Regen/Primed Regen upon reviving it. On obtaining the mod yesterday and giving some testing I can confirm that neither of these is true.

[NinjaZeku]

Companions should be generally immortal.

This bandaid is terrible.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Isn't the point of Helminth subsuming to have Variety? DE doesn't want there to be Only One good choice.

Sentinel Revive is such an important mechanism, it could easily turn dispensary into that.

Really ought to be independent of any specific Warframe ability.

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Isn't the point of Helminth subsuming to have Variety? DE doesn't want there to be Only One good choice.

In my opinion it's used to let us "fix" our frames than have variety. Look how many sleep/stun, heal/energy  regen abilitiies are there.

And I would be "not ok" but "oh well, let it be" if they let us have more slots than 6. Using 2/6 slots just to revive your companion is not nice.

 

Still, revive-able companion every 60 second, have to put another Dispensary (as for OP), stationary style, having to use Dispensary... that has more negatives that positives.

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, Dualice said:

the most obvious and practical of which would be to give sentinels access to the "Link" mods literally every other companion in the game can use.

 

Link-Mods won’t solve anything. It would only make players forced to use tank frames if they want their companions to be survivable, enforcing the tank mega even further than it already is. It’s best we just remove them, while also buffing companion stats and the existing Health, Shields, and Armor mods.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a 52 minutes, NinjaZeku a dit :

Companions should be generally immortal.

This bandaid is terrible.

Sentinels could be immortal, other pets (including MOA) could have their HP scale with enemy level and have some kind of resistance against enemy AoE.

And I agree that the bandaid is aweful

[Teridax68]

This is one of those situations where the devs utterly refuse to make a basic QoL concession and instead make their and our lives a whole lot more complicated just to avoid doing so, to a point that is almost comical: making companions invulnerable would perhaps require a bit of stitching around the mods tied to their survivability, but would otherwise be pretty much the best change we'd have received since Vacuum got extended beyond Carrier and sentinels (and should have been made universal and baseline to our frames, but that's another of those situations...). Instead, DE expect us to:

1. Subsume Protea.
2. Infuse Dispensary onto one of our ability slots.
3. Equip the ability's augment.
4. Stand around the ability.

All just to revive a subset of our companions. The alternatives are to:

• Fill our companion's mod slots with survivability mods.
• Equip mods on our warframe to heal our companion.
• Equip arcanes to heal our companion.

All of this is a bit excessive, given that the only reason we want our companion around in the first place is generally just to benefit from basic utility, namely Vacuum/Fetch. There is no point to dedicating builds to our companions when even companion-specific sets don't even come close in effectiveness to our regular play, and there is even less reason to dedicate mods outside of our companion's to protecting them when they still end up dying.

DE needs to realize that for all their attempts to force gameplay out of reviving companions, it's never going to work, because reviving our AI pets isn't gameplay, it's tedium. Warframe has no need to be this constant escort mission where one has to constantly watch over some squishy, suicidally stupid pet, and players have never really opted into this gameplay to begin with, even if it means dealing with more dead pets. We don't need all of these band-aids, we just need companions to be invulnerable, full stop.

[keikogi]

11 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

This is one of those situations where the devs utterly refuse to make a basic QoL concession and instead make their and our lives a whole lot more complicated just to avoid doing so, to a point that is almost comical: making companions invulnerable would perhaps require a bit of stitching around the mods tied to their survivability, but would otherwise be pretty much the best change we'd have received since Vacuum got extended beyond Carrier and sentinels (and should have been made universal and baseline to our frames, but that's another of those situations...). Instead, DE expect us to:

1. Subsume Protea.
2. Infuse Dispensary onto one of our ability slots.
3. Equip the ability's augment.
4. Stand around the ability.

All just to revive a subset of our companions. The alternatives are to:

• Fill our companion's mod slots with survivability mods.
• Equip mods on our warframe to heal our companion.
• Equip arcanes to heal our companion.

All of this is a bit excessive, given that the only reason we want our companion around in the first place is generally just to benefit from basic utility, namely Vacuum/Fetch. There is no point to dedicating builds to our companions when even companion-specific sets don't even come close in effectiveness to our regular play, and there is even less reason to dedicate mods outside of our companion's to protecting them when they still end up dying.

DE needs to realize that for all their attempts to force gameplay out of reviving companions, it's never going to work, because reviving our AI pets isn't gameplay, it's tedium. Warframe has no need to be this constant escort mission where one has to constantly watch over some squishy, suicidally stupid pet, and players have never really opted into this gameplay to begin with, even if it means dealing with more dead pets. We don't need all of these band-aids, we just need companions to be invulnerable, full stop.

I don't even think they should be invunerable but their durability could scales like a specter ( enemy current level ) so they had enough hp to compensate for their stupidity. But seemingly DE is deathly afraid off showing big HP numbers for the player ( even if their actual durability is on the 200k range) so this is never going to happen.

Edit: the problem is nor companions dying , it is they die every 10 seconds or so and we can't really prevent that outside off playing a few especific frame s that can reliable heal or just have enough base stat for the link mods.

[Nira]

I was never a fan of the Helminth system from its inception. It seems like a band-aid so abilities that haven't aged well and are in need of revision can simply be replaced with an ability from a different frame.

Case in point, unless you use its augment, Ash's Shuriken is outdated and useless, but that's okay because you can put Banshee's Savage Silence in its place and enjoy pretty numbers on Bladestorm, and hey presto we all forget that Shuriken is outdated and useless.

Thanks for everyone who dropped a message, glad I'm not the only Tenno left scratching my head over this one. 

[Zeddypanda]

10 minutes ago, Dualice said:

I was never a fan of the Helminth system from its inception. It seems like a band-aid so abilities that haven't aged well and are in need of revision can simply be replaced with an ability from a different frame.

 

I think it's even woes than that. Let's take Nyx and her Mind Control. It's underwhelming, and a good buff would ideally bring it to about the level of Wukong's Celestial Twin where Nyx converts an enemy into an equally useful ally. Hopefully better, if we're being honest. Wukong has many other tricks and themes apart from pressing 1 to AFK.

However, this can't happen. Mind Control is Nyx' subsumed ability, and as such any buffs or reworks to it will be something you can slap on any Warframe. It's not just that there's "no need" to buff Mind Control, it's that there's "no room".

[Teoarrk]

Agree with OP. This was stupid. Whoever it is that thinks this is a good idea needs to wake up.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Zeddypanda said:

I think it's even woes than that. Let's take Nyx and her Mind Control. It's underwhelming, and a good buff would ideally bring it to about the level of Wukong's Celestial Twin where Nyx converts an enemy into an equally useful ally. Hopefully better, if we're being honest. Wukong has many other tricks and themes apart from pressing 1 to AFK.

However, this can't happen. Mind Control is Nyx' subsumed ability, and as such any buffs or reworks to it will be something you can slap on any Warframe. It's not just that there's "no need" to buff Mind Control, it's that there's "no room".

Helminth versions don't need to be, and in fact in some cases already aren't, identical to the version the original Frame gets.

[Steel_Rook]

Agreed entirely. DE's refusal to enact basic QoL is getting comical. It's to the point where it starts to feel like someone's personal vendetta, more so than game design. Adding Sentinel revive to one augment for one ability from one Warframe then telling everyone to just Infuse that if it's such a big deal reads less like a solution and more like plausible deniability. It gives DE the ability to CLAIM they've solved the problem when pressed, without actually solving it.

I'm not going to go through my usual spiel about improving Sentinels. We've done that song and dance enough times. Either make them invulnerable or let them revive, give Beasts a dedicated weapon item and improve their overall stats. It's not rocket science. And it doesn't matter anyway, because the issue seems more ideological than practical by this point.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Sentinels should never be virtually indestructible, which is what everyone secretly wants. The augment is not very creative, I admit, but to go from "the ability deserves a better augment", to,"gib univac already plx". Cause lets be honest, 95% of people complaining about this augment also were the ones that continually pushed DE to give in to making vacuum sentinel and then companionwide.

The only sensible idea I have seen being put forth to free up an augment for protea is to make sentinel repair a consumable, but added with a steep cooldown. Not 60 seconds, but more like 5 minutes. If pressed as a dev, I would add a consumable that takes 100 kuva per unit and allows the sentinel to reconstruct itself in stages, with the most important combat functions being made available first, and non essential abilities like loot detection mods and vacuum of course coming back once the repair cycle(i.e. 5 minutes) is complete.

I'm not gonna use the mod, but not because I don't think its useful, but because I don't have loot OCD.

[Nira]

2 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Sentinels should never be virtually indestructible, which is what everyone secretly wants. The augment is not very creative, I admit, but to go from "the ability deserves a better augment", to,"gib univac already plx". Cause lets be honest, 95% of people complaining about this augment also were the ones that continually pushed DE to give in to making vacuum sentinel and then companionwide.

The only sensible idea I have seen being put forth to free up an augment for protea is to make sentinel repair a consumable, but added with a steep cooldown. Not 60 seconds, but more like 5 minutes. If pressed as a dev, I would add a consumable that takes 100 kuva per unit and allows the sentinel to reconstruct itself in stages, with the most important combat functions being made available first, and non essential abilities like loot detection mods and vacuum of course coming back once the repair cycle(i.e. 5 minutes) is complete.

I'm not gonna use the mod, but not because I don't think its useful, but because I don't have loot OCD.

I'm curious as to your thinking here. The Adarza and Smeeta kavats provide a stupendously larger gameplay impact than sentinels, yet they have potentially infinite revives as long as the player gets there in time when they're downed (not at all a challenge with mods like Medi-Pet Kit and Loyal Companion). Sentinels deserve a much heavier time penalty with a resource-intensive consumable, because...?

[DrivaMain]

5 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Sentinels should never be virtually indestructible, which is what everyone secretly wants.

I don’t know where you get this wisdom for. Everyone I see talking about pets in this forum or in game wants them to be invincible or be like Djinn and Vulpaphylas and less squishy. 
 

 

5 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

The only sensible idea I have seen being put forth to free up an augment for protea is to make sentinel repair a consumable, but added with a steep cooldown. Not 60 seconds, but more like 5 minutes. If pressed as a dev, I would add a consumable that takes 100 kuva per unit and allows the sentinel to reconstruct itself in stages, with the most important combat functions being made available first, and non essential abilities like loot detection mods and vacuum of course coming back once the repair cycle(i.e. 5 minutes) is complete.

You must be fun at parties. You do share that same mindset that certain someone at DE has. 

[Lahared]

3 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

You must be fun at parties. You do share that same mindset that certain someone at DE has. 

You're strange if you genuinely think going to parties is something to boast or insult others about. Especially now.


Honestly, it's an option and you have the choice to use it.

 

20 hours ago, Dualice said:

if Repair Dispensary's cooldown was affected by ability duration, and/or if it refreshed the number of charges on the sentinel's Regen/Primed Regen upon reviving it.

I totally agree with this proposal.



I'm not sure why others are so eager to jump to conclusions about it being a "band-aid" mod. The general observable consensus based on the posts about it is are that people don't like it. You don't have to use it then. Helminth's Master Summons (at least from what the wikia mentions) only affects companions that are also tangentially eligible for link mods—kubrows, kavats, moas, etc. Both might be changed in the future due to feedback, or simply might not. The only current overlap between the two are moa's exclusively. I bet if you remove that overlap some will then complain about the "nerf." to Master Summons.

People complain about sentinels dying. Repair Dispensary is introduced. If you don't have Regen/Primed Regen it is a boon. One could also put another mod in place of regen on the sentinel.

People complain that Repair Dispensary is a band-aid mod and therefore pointless to use because they can't or won't see the applications of it. It's always because "something else does it better". Variety is bad, eh?

How many people are actually going to use a mod slot for it? How many are actually here just to complain about something they won't ever use?

I remember why I don't go on the forums anymore.

[DrivaMain]

21 minutes ago, Lahared said:

The general observable consensus based on the posts about it is are that people don't like it. You don't have to use it then.

There is no consensus. Maybe you should do more observations regarding this topic. What people pointed out is DE put this band-aid mod is a sign of half-assing the solution about companion uptime. Players have been complaining about constantly reviving companions only adds tedium, companions in general are squishy unless you use Inaros+Link-Mods, and the lack of AoE immunity made pets constantly dying when fighting certain enemies like Eidolons for years now, and it’s escalating pretty quickly as time goes on

 

21 minutes ago, Lahared said:

I'm not sure why others are so eager to jump to conclusions about it being a "band-aid" mod

Why people classify this as a band-aid is it’s better off this feature is innate to companions. It’s like Grendel’s catapult augment. Players complained about Grendel Pulverize being too slow and hard to control and wants DE to change it. What did DE do? Lock it behind an augment mod. The opposite of what the player wanted. Augments should change the way how you use the ability or make the ability even more powerful that you are willing to trade off a critical warframe mod slot. Not giving you quality of life features.

[(PSN)TrueDeMoN100]

The augment mod is a terrible idea, for years they still haven't fixed sacrifice on Djinn with reawaken he will not kill himself to revive you most of the time or he will start at 1 second and stop half way or when he reaches to 99% and let you die. Never the less a new augment mod should be made to replace this dispensary one it is very silly and I don't think the duration can be high enough to work on any other warframe when subsuming.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I don’t think I’ve seen 1 forum post about sentinel survivability. Not counting the ones regarding this augment of course.

[Deminisis]

Pets can have over a minute to revive and spawn near you when down. Even in the most chaotic situation, operator in void mode is enough to get them back up. 

There's even immortal deimos pets and a mod with a chance to ignore lethal damage.

Why we can't get some QOL for sentinels that isn't a bandaid augment on one warframe ability is beyond me.

[Teliko_Freedman]

I suggest just giving Sentinels a 5min respawn time, and just say it was nanomachines.

Get it done with already.

 

DE probably thinks it'll make the Sacrifice mod too useful if self reviving will restore its Primed Regen mod charges.

[DrivaMain]

20 hours ago, Deminisis said:

Pets can have over a minute to revive and spawn near you when down. Even in the most chaotic situation, operator in void mode is enough to get them back up. 

And then 3 seconds later after reviving the pet charges ahead in front of a crowd of enemies getting constantly staggered and knockdowns and then dies again. Forcing the player to repeat the process constantly. If I want to babysit an AI it has to be so good it brings game changing elements, apparently companions are the opposite. Right now they are a walking vacuum and animal instinct slots.

[(NSW)Dangruff]

On 2021-05-13 at 6:11 AM, Teoarrk said:

Agree with OP. This was stupid. Whoever it is that thinks this is a good idea needs to wake up.

The entire company in a nutshell.

[quxier]

On 2021-05-13 at 8:01 PM, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Sentinels should never be virtually indestructible, which is what everyone secretly wants. The augment is not very creative, I admit, but to go from "the ability deserves a better augment", to,"gib univac already plx". Cause lets be honest, 95% of people complaining about this augment also were the ones that continually pushed DE to give in to making vacuum sentinel and then companionwide.

The only sensible idea I have seen being put forth to free up an augment for protea is to make sentinel repair a consumable, but added with a steep cooldown. Not 60 seconds, but more like 5 minutes. If pressed as a dev, I would add a consumable that takes 100 kuva per unit and allows the sentinel to reconstruct itself in stages, with the most important combat functions being made available first, and non essential abilities like loot detection mods and vacuum of course coming back once the repair cycle(i.e. 5 minutes) is complete.

 

5 minutes... not sure if you are trolling or you just believe 5 minutes is good.

Quote

I'm not gonna use the mod, but not because I don't think its useful, but because I don't have loot OCD.

And I'm not gonna do every mission like it's Index... Not everyone likes to pick every single item like that.