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Glaives for Index


nslay

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I tried this out last weekend (a credit event weekend).  Why would you use anything else for Index? Seriously... I used to play with Kuva Chakkhurr in Index. I've seen players with snipers and gunblades. You aim, you shoot, and you kill just one Corpus. And you have to pickup ammo when using guns...

Bring a Cerata and don't aim... and just use the radar really. Just toss the thing and blow it up around a corner. A group of Corpus are instantly dead. In the first two rounds, pretty much all Glaives will one shot all of the enemies (even Auditor). It's absolutely silly! I laughed the whole time playing with Glaives. I happily played 50 million credits worth of Index over the weekend laughing at how silly these Glaives are!

Does it scale? Yeah... I solo'd John Prodman with a Cerata and a Kuva Nukor. You don't really need the Kuva Nukor for enemies less than level 200. Once you get past enemy level 200, you start needing to use Kuva Nukor to put status procs on the Auditor and Raptor to kill them faster (use with Condition Overload). The Toxin procs kill them a bit slowly... everything else dies pretty easily though.

So here's my first ever John Prodman run using a Revenant with my Cerata and Kuva Nukor:

Revenant

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Kuva Nukor (sorry, too impatient to finish building it)

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Cerata

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Index Score Screen

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Normal Score Screen with Prodman Autograph reward

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Some mostly terrible gameplay screenshots... I should have made a video! But who watch one hour of this? Seriously...

Planet Revenant... on a mostly vacant map (this map, while visually beautiful, is completely awful for Index!)

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Looking at level 292 Lockjaw & Sol

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John Prodman on fire (literally)... I guess Revenant has just thrown the Cerata at him and detonated it (green stuff explosion)

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or shoot with mostly whatever, as you'll Kill them easily either way. no shortage of Stats in this game.

 

also even if you're being lazy there, Multi-Shot is definitely better than Fire Rate for Nukor.

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7 hours ago, taiiat said:

also even if you're being lazy there, Multi-Shot is definitely better than Fire Rate for Nukor.

Not for applying as many status effects as possible. Multi-shot has no useful effect on beam weapons aside of simply scaling damage.

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Just now, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Both 

Yeah, I should have also put the Lethal Torrent with the Gunslinger and the Anemic Agility.

But not because of the multi-shot :) ... because multi-shot doesn't actually work the way you might think it does for beam weapons. It just simply scales the damage. It does not provide more chances to proc status effects like on other weapons.

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2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Yeah, I should have also put the Lethal Torrent with the Gunslinger and the Anemic Agility.

But not because of the multi-shot :) ... because multi-shot doesn't actually work the way you might think it does for beam weapons. It just simply scales the damage. It does not provide more chances to proc status effects like on other weapons.

I know how it works I still use it though cause it just works

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11 hours ago, nslay said:

Why would you use anything else for Index? Seriously... I used to play with Kuva Chakkhurr in Index. I've seen players with snipers and gunblades. You aim, you shoot, and you kill just one Corpus. And you have to pickup ammo when using guns...

For seasoned players, Warframe tends to be easy enough that they can choose to play with mostly whatever they want.  Optimizing beyond a certain point doesn't add anything, but rather serves to only diminish the experience.

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11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I haven't tested this with beam chain weapons though.

I learned about this obscure beam weapon mechanic after DE ruined most shotguns... I tested Phage and somebody posted about how the Phage always sluggishly applies status procs no matter how many tendrils there are. And indeed... even with any multi-shot, the Phage always applied the same number of procs in the same time frame. You would only speed up the application of procs with fire rate mods.

I revisited this with Glaxion Vandal finding, again, that multishot didn't do anything w.r.t. to status procs for this kind of weapon. So when applying status effects is important for your beam weapon, fire rate seems to do the trick. And multi-shot seems to do nothing at all (aside of doing more damage)!

EDIT: Alright, I looked at your post. I'll have to try it again. Maybe they changed something! Having actually tested the Phage and the Glaxion Vandal, this wasn't the case at all.

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31 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I haven't tested this with beam chain weapons though.

Ok, definitely working with Atomos chain.  Two different builds, three tests each, # of heat stacks applied after one full magazine. 

primary target / chain target:

Build one:  125/122, 134/119, 134/124

Build two:  58/54,  59/60,  56/56

Builds are identical except Build Two has an empty slot where Build One has Barrel Diffusion.

 

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43 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I haven't tested this with beam chain weapons though.

I tested Amprex, Glaxion Vandal and Ignis Wraith and they indeed ninja changed multi-shot to have an effect on beam weapons' proc chance.

Again, this did not use to be the case. Maybe Phage will now apply procs per tendril (instead of one proc per all tendrils)!

The easiest way to test is to equip Catalyzer Link to make sure you reasonably accurately shoot the weapon for the same amount of time (9 seconds in this case).

EDIT: Oh yeah, I tested Prime Shred vs Split Chamber. Hence I used time shooting instead of magazine.

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2 hours ago, nslay said:

 It does not provide more chances to proc status effects like on other weapons.

yes it does.

2x Multi-Shot will fire two Beams. however whether you get 2x as many chains for relevant Weapons, don't know. only paid attention to direct targets to keep the screen clutter simple.
been this way since uh, like the last major Weapon pass that included Continuous Weapons, whenever that was now

oh that was already gone over.

11 minutes ago, nslay said:

Maybe Phage will now apply procs per tendril (instead of one proc per all tendrils)!

yes, Phage is one of the best Guns in the game now. base Viral + more Status stacking than an entire Raid team of Players put together.

 

not that it really matters since you're just using it for priming here mainly, though if you add Multi-Shot Nukor may Kill the Enemies before you can even Throw, heh.

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15 minutes ago, taiiat said:

not that it really matters since you're just using it for priming here mainly, though if you add Multi-Shot Nukor may Kill the Enemies before you can even Throw, heh.

Everything dies in one shot in the first two or three rounds... so I'm sure Kuva Nukor will do well by itself there. When enemies reach level 200+, some of them become surprisingly tanky. While Kuva Nukor is powerful, I don't really expect Kuva Nukor will magically kill them efficiently when even Glaive Prime's 1 million damage Heavy Attack doesn't even initially scratch Auditor or Raptor. Though Cerata seems to work slightly better than Glaive Prime (even against the machines) in the first 5 rounds... I didn't blindly bring Cerata to my John Prodman run.

15 minutes ago, taiiat said:

yes, Phage is one of the best Guns in the game now. base Viral + more Status stacking than an entire Raid team of Players put together.

I don't know if this was the case before RRR, but after RRR you would find that no matter the multi-shot, the phage always applied 12 procs per second (its fire rate). Here's hoping that multi-shot works on Phage now.

EDIT: And you can find posts in RRR feedback about this multi-shot phenomena (because that's how it used to work).

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Just now, taiiat said:

it definitely does. casually applying several hundred stacks of a DoT.

 

27 minutes ago, taiiat said:

been this way since uh, like the last major Weapon pass that included Continuous Weapons, whenever that was now

And it didn't used to work that way... the last weapons pass was RRR

This was a common observation/complaint after RRR... it's easy to find:

On 2020-03-06 at 5:34 PM, SortaRandom said:

So, my request: Please revert the Status Chance nerf on Phantasma and Phage. They do not score more Status procs from Multishot, and therefore the nerf is unnecessary. (I think Convectrix and Quanta were buffed in this patch, so idk about those guys.)

And this applied to Glaxion Vandal too! And probably all the other beam weapons. But I actually tested this with Glaxion Vandal at the time.

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I guess the beam weapon change happened circa December 2020.

Here's the wiki documenting how I understood and observed it working back when RRR was released (December 2020 edit):

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Multishot?oldid=2176391

And here it documents the new different behavior in January 2021:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Multishot?oldid=2181667

It definitely was a ninja change... unless I missed something in the patch notes.

 

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I've been whoring the orvius since the rework.

Often leave maps, some guy did 400 kills, I did 88 and I got 69% of the damage, it's ridiculous.

It's to the point now, I put Dispatch Overdrive on for +60% movement speed, and Life Steal for 20% heal on heavy attack, which with the high damage output, means a full heal on every attack.

So yes, insta-kill everything, getting fully healed on every attack, with auto-aim, splash damage through walls and shooting around corners... at 60% speed.

Playing Mot the other night solo on Khora, just looking for a single Argon Crystal. Couldn't understand why they were almost killing me, then I realize I forgot to turn steel path off.

Even though I only have like a vitality mod on there for tanking, they couldn't kill me, because you heal fully up, everytime you attack.

 

If you want to be an even bigger clap hat than that, you can actually use Khora's Strangledome on the index.

So you set up a cage at both goal positions. Then you spawn kill everything wihout it being able to even attack, before they get stuck.

As long as you keep an eye on your casting timer, nothing will ever even shoot a single shot.

 

Was thinking the next project, is doing a Glaived, haste Wisp with Empower, throw some Breach Surge into the mix, if I can get it going.

 

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1 hour ago, Surbusken said:

I Was thinking the next project, is doing a Glaived, haste Wisp with Empower, throw some Breach Surge into the mix, if I can get it going.

I've messed around with some glaive/exodia contagion Wisp builds. I like to Breach Surge a room first then group enemies with Ensnare/Larva, anything that survives the explosion is going to get killed with surge sparks. 

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4 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I've messed around with some glaive/exodia contagion Wisp builds. I like to Breach Surge a room first then group enemies with Ensnare/Larva, anything that survives the explosion is going to get killed with surge sparks. 

I almost haven't played Wisp at all, because everyone else were. I do like the frame though, from what I've seen.

What does Breach Surge do exactly? Spreads an AOE dot, that gives a damage boost against effected targets, and you can teleport to reservoirs with it, increasing its range?

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Just now, Surbusken said:

I almost haven't played Wisp at all, because everyone else were. I do like the frame though, from what I've seen.

What does Breach Surge do exactly? Spreads an AOE dot, that gives a damage boost against effected targets, and you can teleport to reservoirs with it, increasing its range?

It's like Radial Blind on steroids. When you hit an enemy that has been breach surged there is a chance that the enemy will release a surge spark. There is also a 100% chance to release a surge spark on death. Blinded enemies are also susceptible stealth damage multipliers. Surge sparks will seek out enemies heads and and do radiation damage with the damage multiplier. They can also proc another surge spark. If you stack a lot of Dots It pretty much just starts a chain reaction of surge sparks off all those damage instances. If you're doing huge burst damage and one shotting every enemy killed will release a spark that will most likely one shot. As always stacking viral on everything is your friend. 

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5 hours ago, nslay said:

And it didn't used to work that way... the last weapons pass was RRR

was that not when Shotgun Status was also touched? because it was somewhere around that time. don't exactly have a Day written on my Calendar for this.

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21 minutes ago, taiiat said:

was that not when Shotgun Status was also touched? because it was somewhere around that time. don't exactly have a Day written on my Calendar for this.

I think multi-shot might have always behaved this way for beam weapons spanning back to before I even started playing this game (I'm pretty sure some of Leyzar's old videos about beam weapons mention this behavior). However, I have only tested both Phage and Glaxion Vandal after RRR's release. Prompted by widespread complaints about Phage's 12 status procs per second (regardless of multi-shot), I tested and observed the exact same behavior with Glaxion Vandal. In fact, I'm so sure this must have been more widely known because the Wiki itself used to document the old behavior as I understood it for beam weapons... that is, multi-shot historically did not result in more status procs for beam weapons.

Let's see how far back the wiki documents this. Yeah, I'm seeing this behavior first documented in October 2018... let along anything after RRR where I first really learned about this.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Multishot?oldid=1840224

This has been long-standing. Whatever you see now with Kuva Nukor and multi-shot is brand-spanking new... And it certainly caught me off guard! I don't know when DE made this change! Pretty cool though!

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