Is Frost just outdated?

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

Yes.  But he's alright I guess.

My only thought is there are frames in the game that you will definitely find that no matter how much you want to like them. 

Once you play them and level them they will never make sense for you. I want to like frost but any frame that has me ignoring their abilities is usually a no for me. Outside of snow globe I basically ignore his whole kit. I cast avalanche maybe twice when leveling him and his prime. 

[Grey_Fenn]

On 2021-05-14 at 8:23 AM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

He’s been effectively replaced by Gara.

This.  Frost is still good and very, very useful for new players, but once you have the mods and energy management to keep splinter storm up, Gara is just better for defense.  There are better frames for armor stripping and slow too.  His kit is outdated in the sense that years of power creep have marginalized him.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 14.5.2021 um 06:25 schrieb ClosedBetaTester:

Howdy ya'll~ Returning player and was super excited to finally get Frost. But as soon as I hit 30, I found him to be very lackluster. Maybe it'll get better once I get the Helmith modifications. Any suggestions on how to take him out of a niche role?

it was already out of date in 2014. because an aoe warframe constantly emptied the whole map.

frost is very nice for beginners and is extremely helpful in def missions. but later there are much much better alternatives. and the maxed frost bubble offers no defense at all!

[16Bitman]

Imo, Frost is still the best for excavation.

I always played excavation arbitration mission with just a Frost to defend the excavators, before DE reworked the reward system.

 

His 1,000,000 Snow Globe can tank for a long time, you just have to shoot the enemies outside of it too.

He can place up to 4 at the same time, Gara and Limbo can only cast their version once.

 

Limbo offers no protection when you want to use your guns inside of his bubble, you have to step out or spam abilities.

I never got why Gara is liked, her shield can be huuuuuuuge, but that's it.

Enemies can't walk in, but they can't do that for Limbo either (unless he fell alseep), but they will quickly just take a chunk out of the wall, which forces Gara to recast.

 

Gara can survive much, much better outside of her safety zone than the others, and will deal a ton of damage too, but imo she is the worst defender of the 3.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Frost can:

Use 1 ability, rather than 2, to instantly wide-area lockdown enemies with simultaneous enemy armour debuff?

Have 4 independent defense points that can be small enough to allow non-interference with team members?

Honestly, if you're counting the functions as 'CC' and 'Damage' or 'Survivability', then yes, other frames can do it better. But you do need to be more specific now, since there are 45 frames that all have variations on how to do those things.

What it comes down to now is how those functions are applied and whether they can do those functions quicker, more efficiently, or even just more often than their equivalents.

Limbo has a bubble, it can be much wider, but he only gets one, and it means that players can't shoot in or out. Frost's bubble can be large, but he gets four of them, and allies can shoot out of it. It's also way sturdier (due to Iron Skin style health gain and previous bubble absorbing) than Gara's 4, for less energy.

Limbo's bubble can lock down enemies, but only with his time stop active, and it doesn't remove enemy armour values for the duration. It also shrinks, bringing enemies in and out of it so they move when you're not expecting them to. It's also a really slow cast, and the same can be said of Gara, a slow cast for more energy and it interrupts everything she's doing, meanwhile enemies are slow to actually become CC'd and can still damage defense points or allies for a short time.

So...

Yeah, there are things that Frost can do better than other frames.

[Grey_Fenn]

1 hour ago, 16Bitman said:

...

I never got why Gara is liked, her shield can be huuuuuuuge, but that's it.

Enemies can't walk in, but they can't do that for Limbo either (unless he fell alseep), but they will quickly just take a chunk out of the wall, which forces Gara to recast.

Gara can survive much, much better outside of her safety zone than the others, and will deal a ton of damage too, but imo she is the worst defender of the 3.

I used Gara for SP excavation.  Are you aware that Splinter Storm can be cast on defense objects?  The damage reduction for them caps at 50% (instead of the 90% that Gara herself gets) but that's still huge. 

The walls being destroyed doesn't really matter because Gara doesn't play like Frost - the goal is not to put up a wall and hunker down inside - you need to recast her 4 to refresh splinter storm anyway, and using her 1 to break the wall (from outside) does AOE damage and adds that damage to splinter storm's AoE.  So Gara on Defense or Excavation plays a casting cycle where you put splinter storm on yourself and the objective, cast a wall, cast energizing dash, kill stuff for a bit, destroy the wall from the outside with 1, recast the wall to refresh splinter storm and CC anything nearby, energizing dash, kill more stuff, repeat.

Also - jumping up and casting the wall in the air will provide higher walls.

[NinjaZeku]

 

On 2021-06-03 at 9:49 PM, Battle.Mage said:

maxed frost bubble offers no defense at all!

Its health scales off enemy damage, couple that with Avalanche's mass CC once the absorption period is over ...
sorry but no, you're doing something wrong if you can't make Snow Globe / Frost work as a powerful defensive tool.

But yeah, an update to Frost would be nice (lol dat Passive),
just don't remove the non-LOS properties of his abilities as a trade off plskthx :P

[Venus-Venera]

On 2021-06-04 at 7:57 AM, NinjaZeku said:

-snip-

just not. and i'm not talking about normal missions where frost can refuel with its bubble.

the last MD on SP could not be done with frost. bubble bursts too fast. energy is sucked in. few shots on objective and it says "mission failed". I had no patience for wasting time.
guess which cc warframe did it with your eyes closed? but that's frost's job.

[Zeddypanda]

Every day as I use Frost to do Profit-Taker, Disruption, Defection, Synthesis, Exterminate, Excavation, Defense, Mobile Defense, Spy, etc etc I always ponder the inverse. "Everyone says Frost is bad. What is he supposed to be bad at?"

[NinjaZeku]

55 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

the last MD on SP could not be done with frost. bubble bursts too fast.

Just because, I just did that mission. Objective never came close to dying.

Mod for more Efficiency so you stack Globes / keep up the absorption period,
having most of the room frozen (via high Range Avalanche) furthermore helps your Globe last as long as needed.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb NinjaZeku:

Just because, I just did that mission. Objective never came close to dying.

Mod for more Efficiency so you stack Globes / keep up the absorption period,
having most of the room frozen (via high Range Avalanche) furthermore helps your Globe last as long as needed.

in theory and on paper everything looks nice and cool.
i'm talking about reality. otherwise you can talk about any drop chances and claim that after 28x runs you are guaranteed to get something.

I know different builds very well and I know how people can camp for hours on SP with frost. none of that helps if you have to defend objectives against enemies with high damage. and maybe read my post again. your avalance is of no use to you if it goes against nullifier and energy extraction. At the end of the day you can only laugh about the bubble.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

On 2021-06-04 at 9:48 AM, Zeddypanda said:

I use Frost to do Profit-Taker, Disruption, Defection, Synthesis, Exterminate, Excavation, Defense, Mobile Defense, Spy

Chroma, Wukong, Trinity, Loki, Mesa, Limbo, Vauban, Sevagoth, and Ivara, respectively.

[Zeddypanda]

13 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Chroma, Wukong, Trinity, Loki, Mesa, Limbo, Vauban, Sevagoth, and Ivara, respectively.

I should certainly hope 9 different frames with 9 potatoes can do 9 different jobs better than one frame with one potato, but Frost is still not bad at any of them.

Also, as a Vauban main, i contest that vauban is better for excavation. Maybe if you're entirely solo and you're specifically doing Hieracon but it's not a fissure so there's no ranged enemies. Frost is just a lot less effort for more consistently defending every excavator.

[RazerXPrime]

I've been reading about stacking snow globes, but when I cast a snow globe on top of another one then it just replaces the old one. You can have them overlap a bit, but you'd need more range probably. I'm not experienced with Frost because I find him slow and kind of boring, but I'd like to know how to utilize him better.

[Zeddypanda]

1 minute ago, RazerXPrime said:

I've been reading about stacking snow globes, but when I cast a snow globe on top of another one then it just replaces the old one.

That's intended! You "stack" their health pools together and refresh the invulnerability period. If you'd like overlapping snow globes like a venn diagram, you can cast them just outside the globe's radius to get that effect instead. I pull that sometimes defending coil drives to cover more area.

[RazerXPrime]

10 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

That's intended! You "stack" their health pools together and refresh the invulnerability period. If you'd like overlapping snow globes like a venn diagram, you can cast them just outside the globe's radius to get that effect instead. I pull that sometimes defending coil drives to cover more area.

So casting a 60K Snow globe on top of a 60K snow globe merges them into a single 120K snow globe?

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

On 2021-05-20 at 10:12 PM, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

explain what he can do that another frame cant do equally as well if not better. 

12 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

I should certainly hope 9 different frames with 9 potatoes can do 9 different jobs better than one frame with one potato, but Frost is still not bad at any of them.

What you said doesn't match what was requested. Fine goalpost-moving.

21 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

Frost is just a lot less effort for more consistently defending every excavator.

Correction: More effort for less consistency defending every excavator. Frost's Globe (1) can be broken. (2) can be entered, and (3) doesn't guarantee safety if an enemy enters. The only thing it's got going for it is that enemies can't shoot into it. All for the option to risk losing multiple excavators.

A high range Limbo can bubble two nearby excavators at once, guaranteeing both their safety as long as you're good enough to know the shrink rate. Can't be broken, stops enemies via Stasis, and you can always banish more enemies at a third excavator, should three be active.

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

in theory and on paper everything looks nice and cool.
i'm talking about reality.

Okay, so ... the test run I just did, which you were using as an example of "impossible with Frost" ... that was not real?

Like, it's wild I have to ask this, but can you define reality then, please?

2 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

I know different builds very well and I know how people can camp for hours on SP with frost.

So he's doing just fine on SP.

???

2 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

none of that helps if you have to defend objectives against enemies with high damage.

SP T4 Void is not high enough?

And really, that's the thing about Snow Globe - it DOES NOT MATTER what the enemy DPS is, since the Globe health scales with it.

2 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

your avalance is of no use to you if it goes against nullifier

Sure. So make those your priority targets, keep an eye on your map / surroundings, seek them out proactively.

2 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

energy extraction

By the time you reach SP Aten etc, you should have amassed a decent amount of options in regards to Energy management,
worst case you can pop an Energy Restore (which I didn't have to, for the record) regardless of your Focus / Arcane / whatnot situation.

To say nothing of how Energy Leeches are not exactly a Frost-only problem, of course.

2 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

At the end of the day you can only laugh about the bubble.

Well, almost, I am laughing under the bubble, safe and sound :P

[Zeddypanda]

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

What you said doesn't match what was requested. Fine goalpost-moving.

 

I set a different post in the first place!

4 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

I always ponder the inverse. "Everyone says Frost is bad. What is he supposed to be bad at?"

Didn't make any secret about it.

[Venus-Venera]

On 2021-06-04 at 1:19 PM, NinjaZeku said:

Okay, so ... the test run I just did, which you were using as an example of "impossible with Frost" ... that was not real?

Like, it's wild I have to ask this, but can you define reality then, please?

So he's doing just fine on SP.

???

SP T4 Void is not high enough?

And really, that's the thing about Snow Globe - it DOES NOT MATTER what the enemy DPS is, since the Globe health scales with it.

Sure. So make those your priority targets, keep an eye on your map / surroundings, seek them out proactively.

By the time you reach SP Aten etc, you should have amassed a decent amount of options in regards to Energy management,
worst case you can pop an Energy Restore (which I didn't have to, for the record) regardless of your Focus / Arcane / whatnot situation.

To say nothing of how Energy Leeches are not exactly a Frost-only problem, of course.

Well, almost, I am laughing under the bubble, safe and sound :P

again.
in theory or on paper everything is fine and good. in reality, however, i had a completely different experience. you can discuss forever. it just doesn't change the facts.

if you have experienced others, that is not a problem either.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

23 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

I set a different post in the first place!

Well, that sure is one way to silently admitting to Frost not excelling at anything. Thanks for that!

[(PSN)Svenx13]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Battle.Mage:

again.
in theory or on paper everything is fine and good. in reality, however, i had a completely different experience. you can discuss forever. it just doesn't change the facts.

if you have experienced others, that is not a problem either.

 

So that means in reality your practical skills are lacking. Sounds to me like a personal problem and not a Frost problem.

So you fail to see your own shortcomings

 Imo you should work on your skills instead of declaring frost is outdated. 

It is like if someone sees grass as red or gray, then he shouldn't declare it to be reality. 

[Venus-Venera]

On 2021-06-04 at 2:25 PM, (PSN)Svenx13 said:

So that means in reality your practical skills are lacking.

oh God...
to say something like that you have to know me very well.
comes back to the ground.
Fantasies about pink ponies are well and good ... but they are embarrassing enough. and do not allow any discussion.

[(PSN)Svenx13]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

Well, that sure is one way to silently admitting to Frost not excelling at anything. Thanks for that

Pls tell me which of your mentioned warframes excels at anything

[(PSN)Svenx13]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Battle.Mage:

oh God...
to say something like that you have to know me very well.
comes back to the ground.
Fantasies about pink ponies are well and good ... but they are embarrassing enough. and do not allow any discussion.

 

I don't have to know you to say you lack the skills to mod frost for SP.

Your experience is evidence enough and that is a fact not fantasy