Exilus Forma - Universal Polarity Forma for the Exilus Slot

[16Bitman]

This is by no means a new suggestion, but the only thread about this I was able to find, was in General Discussions.

It's a very simple idea.

 

What does it do?

 

It adds a Universal Polarity to your Exilus Slot, this works both on warframes and weapons (but can be split up in 2 items if DE wants to do that, but it would be much less popular on guns).

The exilus slot is the most flexible slot for me, so I don't want to place a Forma on it restricting me to only a few mods. With a universal polarity, I'd instantly add it to all Warframes I play regularly. There's also no drawback of making the Umbra Forma obsolete if you only add it to the Exilus slot, as that slot has no Umbral Mods yet (and hopefully ever).

 

How do I farm it?

That's up to DE, it could be part of a new mission set with a relatively low drop chance. It could be part of the Corpus Sisters Requiem relics as a rare drop. It could be one of Teshins permanent or weekly (not "8 weekly") offerings. Something that gets people to play.

 

How much would it cost?

While this would (imo) be slightly better than the Aura Forma, 80p is still a steep cost and should be enough.

 

What do I need to craft it?

The cost for the Aura Forma is pretty expensive, but I think if DE thinks that it's fair, this Forma should match the same cost, maybe replace the Argon Crystal with something else to slightly differentiate the two Forma.

 

tl;dr Universal Polarity for Exilus Slot, add a new item that adds that.

 

I'm unsure if this topic would fit better in the "fan concepts" forum section, but this suggestion adds hardly anything new to the game and is pretty much just a "do same thing again" suggestion. If a mod thinks differently however, please move it over there.

[Tesseract7777]

You had me at "universal polarity forma for the exilus slot". 

[_Tormex_]

Yes pls

[Uhkretor]

... I approve, and Norris has no say in it unless he approves too.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

I definitely agree; Plus, having it available in the Market / Vendor as well as a drop table or two would be a useful way to get them!

 

I'm honestly a bit surprised this wasn't introduced already. It would create more flexibility for many builds out there.

[MagPrime]

6 hours ago, 16Bitman said:

This is by no means a new suggestion, but the only thread about this I was able to find, was in General Discussions.

It's a very simple idea.

 

What does it do?

 

It adds a Universal Polarity to your Exilus Slot, this works both on warframes and weapons (but can be split up in 2 items if DE wants to do that, but it would be much less popular on guns).

The exilus slot is the most flexible slot for me, so I don't want to place a Forma on it restricting me to only a few mods. With a universal polarity, I'd instantly add it to all Warframes I play regularly. There's also no drawback of making the Umbra Forma obsolete if you only add it to the Exilus slot, as that slot has no Umbral Mods yet (and hopefully ever).

 

How do I farm it?

That's up to DE, it could be part of a new mission set with a relatively low drop chance. It could be part of the Corpus Sisters Requiem relics as a rare drop. It could be one of Teshins permanent or weekly (not "8 weekly") offerings. Something that gets people to play.

 

How much would it cost?

While this would (imo) be slightly better than the Aura Forma, 80p is still a steep cost and should be enough.

 

What do I need to craft it?

The cost for the Aura Forma is pretty expensive, but I think if DE thinks that it's fair, this Forma should match the same cost, maybe replace the Argon Crystal with something else to slightly differentiate the two Forma.

 

tl;dr Universal Polarity for Exilus Slot, add a new item that adds that.

 

I'm unsure if this topic would fit better in the "fan concepts" forum section, but this suggestion adds hardly anything new to the game and is pretty much just a "do same thing again" suggestion. If a mod thinks differently however, please move it over there.

I've recently started playing around with melee, this would be an amazing addition.

[DrivaMain]

Why stop there? Introduce universal forma except for the Umbra polarity for the main mod slots too. What made players complain about the polarization system is how limited your build can become and it makes experimenting with builds not worth the effort.

[Voltage]

Maybe I am the only one, but I don't like this idea. I really like how polarization as a system has the player think about the trade offs of what they want to maximize and how those polarities influence other config slots. It then rewards the player who wants it all and crafts multiple of the same Warframe to have specific builds for specific situations. Over time, equipment and the arsenal has been dumbed down so far that experimenting builds either leads to breakthroughs that immediately go on YouTube and other platforms following with a nerf as everyone just copies those builds, or there is little to no interesting choices involved in slotting mods. Exilus doesn't need universal polarities. Aura Mods and Stance Mods can make sense for these sorts of polarities, but not any other mods to be honest.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

38 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Maybe I am the only one, but I don't like this idea. I really like how polarization as a system has the player think about the trade offs of what they want to maximize and how those polarities influence other config slots. It then rewards the player who wants it all and crafts multiple of the same Warframe to have specific builds for specific situations. Over time, equipment and the arsenal has been dumbed down so far that experimenting builds either leads to breakthroughs that immediately go on YouTube and other platforms following with a nerf as everyone just copies those builds, or there is little to no interesting choices involved in slotting mods. Exilus doesn't need universal polarities. Aura Mods and Stance Mods can make sense for these sorts of polarities, but not any other mods to be honest.

Agree. Even better, all warframe slots should have a built in Unairu polarity to make people really think about trade offs and to reward those who invest lots of forma into them. 
Mod link was such a bad addition because it allows easy copying of others builds. Honestly all youtubers should get 2035’d for sharing ideas and builds.

Back on topic, exilus slot has really hard slotting options. It’s really hard to choose whether or not I should slot Primed Sure Footed over something else. Good thing I can just grind more and spend more time ranking up a new frame for when I want to slot something else.

Spoiler

/s for anyone who missed it.

 

[DrivaMain]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

Maybe I am the only one, but I don't like this idea. I really like how polarization as a system has the player think about the trade offs of what they want to maximize and how those polarities influence other config slots. It then rewards the player who wants it all and crafts multiple of the same Warframe to have specific builds for specific situations. Over time, equipment and the arsenal has been dumbed down so far that experimenting builds either leads to breakthroughs that immediately go on YouTube and other platforms following with a nerf as everyone just copies those builds, or there is little to no interesting choices involved in slotting mods. Exilus doesn't need universal polarities. Aura Mods and Stance Mods can make sense for these sorts of polarities, but not any other mods to be honest.

One of the reason why people prefer cookie cutter builds is how limited the polarization system is. People are not going to bother changing polarities once they have the best builds. It takes too much time and effort for such little gain. If polarities are all universal players are more inclined to try off meta fun builds. Nowadays, people crafting multiple warframes or weapons are very rare, the reason are always the same, too much time and effort for little gain.

This question sums it up pretty perfectly :

”Why spend hours grinding multiple frames when I can just stick a meta build and be good for the rest of my playtime?” 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Relating to this

 

Having the ability to Swap Polarities around (Moving, not re-forma-ing) as we already can with the Non-Exilus slots; would help a lot.

 

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

10 hours ago, Voltage said:

Maybe I am the only one, but I don't like this idea. I really like how polarization as a system has the player think about the trade offs of what they want to maximize and how those polarities influence other config slots. It then rewards the player who wants it all and crafts multiple of the same Warframe to have specific builds for specific situations. Over time, equipment and the arsenal has been dumbed down so far that experimenting builds either leads to breakthroughs that immediately go on YouTube and other platforms following with a nerf as everyone just copies those builds, or there is little to no interesting choices involved in slotting mods. Exilus doesn't need universal polarities. Aura Mods and Stance Mods can make sense for these sorts of polarities, but not any other mods to be honest.

I do see what you're saying regarding having multiple of the same Frame for making different builds, and trying to specialize in different things with a given frame; I actually have an extra Mirage & Banshee prime from their recent Dual unvaulting (I was mainly hoping to get their Prime Accessories at the time, but I noticed it could be a better deal if I bought both of the entire packs while I was at it), so down the road I was considering making a different build for them myself, at some point. It would be a good way for me to keep my current builds while trying something new with the same Frames :)
 

But there is something to think about, briefly speaking. In this particular case, the only new thing that could hypothetically become a universal polarity is the Exilus Slot. All 8 of the standard Warframe or Weapon slots would still be using regular Forma, which would carry over between Configs. So anyone who still would like to work on a differently-polarized build (Using a different copy of the Warframe / Weapon) could certainly do so, and still specialize in the same situations, by & large. An Exilus Forma wouldn't take away from that, in and of itself.
 

• Not only because it would just be an option for those who need / want it, but because if it is used in someone's build which may or may not be uploaded online, it would still mostly consist of regular Forma and the same mods as though the Exilus Forma wasn't there.
  
  That being said, someday there could be certain build combinations out there that are very versatile (In that you could have a set of the same polarized slots with different non-Exilus (Standard) mods on each config, and by merely switching the Exilus Mod it suddenly performs much better in one situation than another mod would've) and could become a popular thing and lead to a nerf of some sort. I don't like seeing some things be nerfed either, but at the end of the day those builds still have more flexibility with interchangeable Exilus mods, regardless of how interesting or not the mod is.

 

There are numerous situations to plan for with many Frames / Weapons, and a lot of variety with the Exilus mod effects that could be a benefit to the same build, at least in some cases (Probably mostly Warframe Builds). I think as long as Universal Polarities are limited to those more "unique" slots, it will still leave enough of a reason for people to make builds as they please since mostly regular Forma is involved, and if they really wanted to make a new build with another copy of the Frame / Weapon, they could.
 

I feel that an Exilus Forma would help more than it can hurt, in the long run.

[Voltage]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Agree. Even better, all warframe slots should have a built in Unairu polarity to make people really think about trade offs and to reward those who invest lots of forma into them. 
Mod link was such a bad addition because it allows easy copying of others builds. Honestly all youtubers should get 2035’d for sharing ideas and builds.

Back on topic, exilus slot has really hard slotting options. It’s really hard to choose whether or not I should slot Primed Sure Footed over something else. Good thing I can just grind more and spend more time ranking up a new frame for when I want to slot something else.

A major part of the gameplay loop is optimizing equipment. Rebalance updates have some content in the form of adjusting your loadout. Omni-Forma (even for just Exilus slots) bites into this. A consumable like this also enables players to cause a storm until DE caves in, undermining the entire polarity system by introducing Omni-Forma for all slots. Just because something is a hot topic with a large following on one side doesn't mean it is necessarily healthy for DE or the playerbase long-term. A good example of this is Fissures and the Prime Vault. People clamored praise towards DE for such a great system when it replaced Void Towers, but now there are large amounts of complaints surrounding Loki Prime, vaulted gear, and the sheer volume of Relics in-game.

The sarcastic response here doesn't actually present a good counter-argument like the other people who quoted me did. /shrug

5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

One of the reason why people prefer cookie cutter builds is how limited the polarization system is. People are not going to bother changing polarities once they have the best builds. It takes too much time and effort for such little gain. If polarities are all universal players are more inclined to try off meta fun builds. Nowadays, people crafting multiple warframes or weapons are very rare, the reason are always the same, too much time and effort for little gain.

This question sums it up pretty perfectly :

”Why spend hours grinding multiple frames when I can just stick a meta build and be good for the rest of my playtime?” 

That's definitely a great point which I have since considered. The way to address this though would be to mechanically change skills and items than to undermine the polarity system. What I mean by this is standardizing damage multipliers like Roar, Eclipse, Amp, Xata's Whisper and Vex Armor as well as standardizing mod polarities: Cold should be a Naramon polarity, Vigilante Supplies should not be Exilus as it is a DPS mod, Riven Mods should be able to have manipulated polarities using Kuva, all movement/parkour based mods should be the same polarity, etc. You can keep the way polarities work the same but create a more consistent experience that does not punish you or shoe-horn your builds when certain mods come into play. Feeling forced to use Primed Sure Footed has nothing to do with the fact it is a 16 drain Vazarin mod different from most Exilus, but the fact that game design heavily relies on stuns and knockdowns against the player. I am never a fan of addressing mechanical problems in this game with Band-Aids that don't actually address the root problems presented.

2 hours ago, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

I do see what you're saying regarding having multiple of the same Frame for making different builds, and trying to specialize in different things with a given frame; I actually have an extra Mirage & Banshee prime from their recent Dual unvaulting (I was mainly hoping to get their Prime Accessories at the time, but I noticed it could be a better deal if I bought both of the entire packs while I was at it), so down the road I was considering making a different build for them myself, at some point. It would be a good way for me to keep my current builds while trying something new with the same Frames :)
 

But there is something to think about, briefly speaking. In this particular case, the only new thing that could hypothetically become a universal polarity is the Exilus Slot. All 8 of the standard Warframe or Weapon slots would still be using regular Forma, which would carry over between Configs. So anyone who still would like to work on a differently-polarized build (Using a different copy of the Warframe / Weapon) could certainly do so, and still specialize in the same situations, by & large. An Exilus Forma wouldn't take away from that, in and of itself.
 

• Not only because it would just be an option for those who need / want it, but because if it is used in someone's build which may or may not be uploaded online, it would still mostly consist of regular Forma and the same mods as though the Exilus Forma wasn't there.
  
  That being said, someday there could be certain build combinations out there that are very versatile (In that you could have a set of the same polarized slots with different non-Exilus (Standard) mods on each config, and by merely switching the Exilus Mod it suddenly performs much better in one situation than another mod would've) and could become a popular thing and lead to a nerf of some sort. I don't like seeing some things be nerfed either, but at the end of the day those builds still have more flexibility with interchangeable Exilus mods, regardless of how interesting or not the mod is.

 

There are numerous situations to plan for with many Frames / Weapons, and a lot of variety with the Exilus mod effects that could be a benefit to the same build, at least in some cases (Probably mostly Warframe Builds). I think as long as Universal Polarities are limited to those more "unique" slots, it will still leave enough of a reason for people to make builds as they please since mostly regular Forma is involved, and if they really wanted to make a new build with another copy of the Frame / Weapon, they could.
 

I feel that an Exilus Forma would help more than it can hurt, in the long run.

I would refer to my response to DrivaMain and TheWayofWisdom above. I think you definitely have great points here, but there is lots of content involved in adjusting loadouts over time, and it is unhealthy to bite into that from a game longevity perspective. I think it is fine to require players to adjust with balance updates instead of introducing items that would eat into or even remove this process. Likewise, I think there are better ways to address build flexibility such as standardizing polarities between types of mods that I wrote above: "Cold should be a Naramon polarity, Vigilante Supplies should not be Exilus as it is a DPS mod, Riven Mods should be able to have manipulated polarities using Kuva, all movement/parkour based mods should be the same polarity, etc."

I am still not a fan of the idea of Omni-Forma even if exclusive to Exilus. I can live with Aura and Stance Forma, but I really feel it should stop there. I understand it would save me, the player lots of time and flexibility in loadouts as well. However, this solution is "the easy way out" compared to the right approach which is a large scale mods balance pass. So many game balance problems and QoL issues would be fixed with a consistent modding experience as far as drain, polarity, and properly moderated multipliers across mod types go. I am not sure why DE ignores this elephant in the room, but it is catching up to them.

[DrivaMain]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

However, this solution is "the easy way out" compared to the right approach which is a large scale mods balance pass.

True, however if the change required players to change almost every polarity they have on their equipment. Players still won't be bothered. Worst case scenario, players will scream that their investment have been wasted. I'll take myself for example, supposed DE did a major balance pass on all of the mods in this game, unfortunately it renders my 5 V Chroma Prime build obselete, I am forced to do the entire re-formaing process all over again. If I weren't tolerant with this change I will rage quit immediately, and unfortunately the impatient are a large majority of this player base. 

 

[Voltage]

4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

True, however if the change required players to change almost every polarity they have on their equipment. Players still won't be bothered. Worst case scenario, players will scream that their investment have been wasted. I'll take myself for example, supposed DE did a major balance pass on all of the mods in this game, unfortunately it renders my 5 V Chroma Prime build obselete, I am forced to do the entire re-formaing process all over again. If I weren't tolerant with this change I will rage quit immediately, and unfortunately the impatient are a large majority of this player base. 

I'm giving a hypothetical where DE does the pass properly and rewards players with Forma compensation and multiple weekends of double Affinity for such a large scale change. My stance on this thread is the right way to go about this, not necessarily the possibile issues DE creates themselves.

[DrivaMain]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

I'm giving a hypothetical where DE does the pass properly and rewards players with Forma compensation and multiple weekends of double Affinity for such a large scale change

I don’t trust DE regarding this. At best, they only give you a 3 day booster. Players who joined in late, well sucks to be them.

[16Bitman]

Bump, I am still very interested in this idea.

[Kakoii-is-cool]

while i like the idea of making the exilus slot more switchable, i also know the reason why id want that, its because im too stingy to use an umbra forma to open up capacity... so this is a hard nope for me, trivializes the importance of umbra forma
use normal intensify instead of umrbal and there u can just use an exilus with negative polarity on your WF

sounds like "i dont want to use my umbra forma", period.

[16Bitman]

1 minute ago, Kakoii-is-cool said:

while i like the idea of making the exilus slot more switchable, i also know the reason why id want that, its because im too stingy to use an umbra forma to open up capacity... so this is a hard nope for me, trivializes the importance of umbra forma

sounds like "i dont want to use my umbra forma", period.

A build with all slots but the exilus slots polarized, including 2 umbra forma, inspired this post :)

 

It's a "I really don't want to clutter my inventory with duplicates" and "I don't want to use more Umbra forma on the same frame just so I can have a different exilus mod" post.

[Kakoii-is-cool]

Gerade eben schrieb 16Bitman:

A build with all slots but the exilus slots polarized, including 2 umbra forma, inspired this post :)

 

It's a "I really don't want to clutter my inventory with duplicates" and "I don't want to use more Umbra forma on the same frame just so I can have a different exilus mod" post.

DW i know that feeling, i was also thinking of umbra formaing my valkitty a 3rd time just so that i can have a free polarity in exilus slot, but also a free polarity on my 8th mod, because sometimes adaption isnt needed or i wanne run a different exilus, in the end its just because i dont wanne use my umbra forma, wether thats the first or the third^^

[Joezone619]

Melee exilus when DE?

[Kakoii-is-cool]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Joezone619:

Melee exilus when DE?

When melee gets rightfully nerfed hopefully? i love melee playstyle, but the fact that i can kill level 80 mobs with a random 20 capacity lvl 15 melee weapon (with 3 mods, point strike , berserk and either crit or  status/fire) is absurd, when i cant even kill level 30 mobs vs a 30 capacity lvl 30 rifle that easily...

[(PSN)haleprof]

On 2021-05-16 at 6:46 AM, Voltage said:

Vigilante Supplies should not be Exilus as it is a DPS mod

What???? It is literally just a nerfed Ammo Mutation mod??? 

Just because it is part of a set, doesn't mean its a dps mod. 

Might as well say "Oh Hunter Track shouldn't be a primary mod, as it boosts Companion damage, it should be a companion mod!" 

You bring a lot of good ideas tho. 

I came into this subthread cause I was thinking that Exilus should be something flexible, but after reading and checking some of my more formad warframes I realize we have more then enough room to play with our mods.

But yeah, the polarisations of mods seemed to start logically but DE either forgot or idk, anyway yeah, that should be looked over and made more consistent. 

However I dislike the idea that all elements are one polarisation and like the fact that Cold is Vasarin. As sb else already said it was (probably) originally thought as a defensive element, and I agree, it is and should be. 

[sunderthefirmament]

I recognize that this is a necro, yet I do approve of the suggestion.  It would help future-proof builds for the eventual nerf of PSF, if that's the direction DE decides to take to address the current AOE situation in Warframe.

[Voltage]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)haleprof said:

What???? It is literally just a nerfed Ammo Mutation mod??? 

Just because it is part of a set, doesn't mean its a dps mod. 

Might as well say "Oh Hunter Track shouldn't be a primary mod, as it boosts Companion damage, it should be a companion mod!" 

Vigilante Supplies is an effective DPS mod. The amount of damage it gives is irrelevant. The intention of Exilus mods was for QoL mods. Once you add mods like Power Drift and Vigilante Supplies into the mix, real QoL mods like Hush, Trick Mag, etc becomes almost impossible to justify outside niche use-cases. That's why direct reload speed and magazine capacity are not eligible for that slot.

This is especially important to remember now that we have Weapon Arcanes that's effectively multiple DPS mods depending on which one you equip.

There are loads of inconsistency with this system which is unfortunate, but that's how it was originally marketed.