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We need a quadruped Necramech or a quadruped Warframe, change my mind.


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Valkyr should transform into a quadruped when dodging to move faster and because it will be very fitting for her rage theme, take the Jackals or Hyenas animations and that should save a ton of time, it's a very small detail that will make everyone happy, or just create a quadruped Warframe or quadruped NecraMech that moves twice as fast as regular warframes to make the game feel more action packed.

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Asking for a less humanoid frame has been asked for probably since the warframe production really ramped up. There have been some interesting fan-concepts even with art.

Though the reason DE has given early on is that doing so will take a lot of resources because they would be basically starting from scratch. It is not that they couldn't do it but it isnt as simple of just "using other asset animations"; at least something what wont feel half-assed or visually unpleasing (that will be front and center as a player and not handwaved because of AI expectations). They have done a lot of their warframe modeling using Excalibur and Mag as base structures/models and rigging then did the subtle modifications from there (at least in the past maybe they have moved to something else now). So to move to a new joint type not only requires a new base model but new rigging. Then from there they need to adjust all the motions for every interaction in the game... jumping, weapon type grips, momentum, stances, reactions, etc etc.  It is a huge front loaded situation to do this. To reduce that, they would need to restrict what can be done in such a form. 

In short, the most likely situation would be an exalted type ability where they have full control over your "equipment". It will reduce all the variations they need to account for as well as baseline expectations for actions you can do. That being said, necromechs are in their early stages and have lower equipment variations. Hyenas could probably even be used as a rough base, making necromechs an easier start for such an idea.

As far as Valkyr, maybe with a rework they could give her some special animations. Though as with what I first said, it would likely only be in her 4th. Her theme doesn't demand she be more animalistic or beastly and she only even has any reason to be while in her exalted ability.

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On 2021-05-15 at 3:06 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

Then from there they need to adjust all the motions for every interaction in the game... jumping, weapon type grips, momentum, stances, reactions, etc etc.  It is a huge front loaded situation to do this. To reduce that, they would need to restrict what can be done in such a form. 

I think there's a viable solution to this issue at least, and we've seen it once already: Excalibur Umbra.

Instead of making an exalted transformation, make the frame, and make an AI specter form like how Excalibur Umbra essentially behaves like when you go into Operator mode. So, rather than entering some new combat form, sort of like we do with Sevagoth (And we've seen how janky that can be), the frame would simply lose its tamed behavior it has while the player controls it and become feral when the player enters operator mode. You could then use two separate riggings, and have them switch out during the move from frame to operator, and switch back when moving from operator to frame, rather than have to create an entirely new rigging that can morph seamlessly into both forms.

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On 2021-05-15 at 4:06 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

Her theme doesn't demand she be more animalistic

True but i think she'd be much cooler looking (which can make things more fun to play) with a more animalistic like look and feel to her, like that villian called Cheetah in Wonder Woman 2 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEGDiw3Z1KsPHOxtXYc8X

The link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/pop-culture/2018/03/cheetah-wonder-woman-villain-everything-you-need-to-know/

I dont see much of a good reason to leave her as is. Her only usefulFun abilities are 2 and 4, the 1 is fun but really feels out of place and unhelpful. Her 3 has to be the lamest looking ability ever to exist, and ridiculously unhelpful. Id go animal theme by replacing those abilities and add some helpful touches to her 2 and 4 to embrace the theme. Her old 1st ability can be something permanently added to helminth for those tht may cry over it. Her 3rd can be sent to the abyss, forgotten and never to be seen again

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On 2021-05-17 at 5:52 AM, xZeromusx said:

I think there's a viable solution to this issue at least, and we've seen it once already: Excalibur Umbra.

Instead of making an exalted transformation, make the frame, and make an AI specter form like how Excalibur Umbra essentially behaves like when you go into Operator mode. So, rather than entering some new combat form, sort of like we do with Sevagoth (And we've seen how janky that can be), the frame would simply lose its tamed behavior it has while the player controls it and become feral when the player enters operator mode. You could then use two separate riggings, and have them switch out during the move from frame to operator, and switch back when moving from operator to frame, rather than have to create an entirely new rigging that can morph seamlessly into both forms.

It is an option but I suppose my question will be; what is the benefit of doing that? Separate or together is only a matter of timing and the expectation of the timescale. Exalted abilities are "seamless" because they are generally simple; a creation of a weapon, that usually just copies an already fleshed out stance. But they, in essence, already follow the rules for model swaps. Equinox and her 1 is already an example of a model change "seamlessly" during gameplay. But it is a simple change using already fleshed out animations of an already bipedal warframe.. I haven't played much of Sevagoth but he is the most ambitious. He honestly needs the umbral treatment.

The point of my post was that they would have to spend resources starting from basically scratch. Its not not they would need to make a new model. They just need to make a new rig for the model then touch up the model to fit the new "mode". This is basically how idles work right now. The more extensive part are the accompanying animations. How is it going walk? Run? Does it press the weapon on the ground? What position does it hold the weapon in? Does it change for say a Bow-type, etc? How will the melee stances work? How does it jump? How does it react when it lands? Interactions with environment and consoles? Damage reactions? So on and so forth. They have to rig all the animations for that. The melee stances would be simple example alone of the endeavor. I mean, are you going to switch to the bipedal stances they already rigged and animated even though you are suppose to be quad? When they make a new frame that is bipedal, they simply just rig it with their bipedal rig with all the animations because gameplay wise they all behave the same. Nekros swings the same way Hildryn does.

That is why the simplest solution is the exalted type abilities. They don't need to worry about weapon grips and melee stances because they made the choice for you. They therefore only have to account for 1 set of things instead of every weapon in the game. They however still have to flesh out the quad rig with all the other mundane animations even if the end result was an npc umbra effect. But then was all the effort to do that worth it when the player only gets to watch?

On 2021-05-17 at 10:22 AM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

True but i think she'd be much cooler looking (which can make things more fun to play) with a more animalistic like look and feel to her, like that villian called Cheetah in Wonder Woman 2 

I should be clear. I am not against making a quadruped warframe. I have actually wanted "Fenrir/Beast" frame for years now. I am just being realistic. DE is free to make them and every quad after the first will be simple once they catch up on all the animations if they wanted no restrictions on their first frame. But that is why I said it is a "front-loaded" task.

And in the past, ive gone pretty extensive on my desires for reworking Valkyr to be a true feral berserker. The Exalted warframes are some of my favorites probably partly because I have little desire for all the weapons in the game.

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On 2021-05-20 at 1:15 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

The point of my post was that they would have to spend resources starting from basically scratch. Its not not they would need to make a new model. They just need to make a new rig for the model then touch up the model to fit the new "mode". This is basically how idles work right now. The more extensive part are the accompanying animations. How is it going walk? Run? Does it press the weapon on the ground? What position does it hold the weapon in? Does it change for say a Bow-type, etc? How will the melee stances work? How does it jump? How does it react when it lands? Interactions with environment and consoles? Damage reactions? So on and so forth. They have to rig all the animations for that. The melee stances would be simple example alone of the endeavor. I mean, are you going to switch to the bipedal stances they already rigged and animated even though you are suppose to be quad? When they make a new frame that is bipedal, they simply just rig it with their bipedal rig with all the animations because gameplay wise they all behave the same. Nekros swings the same way Hildryn does.

That is why the simplest solution is the exalted type abilities. They don't need to worry about weapon grips and melee stances because they made the choice for you. They therefore only have to account for 1 set of things instead of every weapon in the game. They however still have to flesh out the quad rig with all the other mundane animations even if the end result was an npc umbra effect. But then was all the effort to do that worth it when the player only gets to watch?

I should be clear. I am not against making a quadruped warframe. I have actually wanted "Fenrir/Beast" frame for years now. I am just being realistic. DE is free to make them and every quad after the first will be simple once they catch up on all the animations if they wanted no restrictions on their first frame. But that is why I said it is a "front-loaded" task.

 

I get your point, I was thinking of something more along the lines of an exhalted ability but without having to waste energy to use it, just transform by dodging the same way limbo jumps into the rift, his jump to the rift used to be an ability that consumed energy and everyone hated it, they moved it to a custom dodge that regenerates your energy and now all limbo players love it, plus, when it comes to lore I think Valkyr was supposed to be more like an animal if you look at her Gersemi skin, she has a tail.

9KpFHBo.png

In relation to the rig and model just use the rig and model of a kavat and scale the model in the engine to a size appropriate for a player, clearly not as tall as a player but not as short as a kavat, something in between that can fit through doors, in relation to animations just use the same idle animations that kavats have and if necesary they can be tweaked a bit but in general the base model just needs to be the one of a normal kavat, they have idle animations, they can jump, they can run, they can attack and I think they can even bullet jump, they just need to link those animations to the existing input commands in the script and increase the movementSpeed float value and they should be well on their way, that's way easier than having to make custom animations for normal warframes, and the model itself can be a tweaked version of a kavat, nobody will mind the similarities and some may even find them charming.

Farewell | Mythical creatures art, Big cats art, Creature art

In relation to the weapons just have a bipedal mode and a quadriped mode and have no weapons equipped when you're in quadriped mode, just use a character-specific weapon called beast claws and fangs, something like Garuda's talons that are only available if you cary no melee weapon or Sevagoth's claws that are only available when you're using his exhalted form, then just use the normal kavat attack animations if none can be created, I don't mind the smaller details as long as I get to run around as a quadriped and I'm pretty sure many other people wouldn't mind either as long as we get the first step towards quadripeds or arachnids (no snakes yet, maybe someday, we can all dream).

On 2021-05-14 at 11:18 PM, Teliko_Freedman said:

Go higher.

Arachne.

 

28a02651ca48f35f04f948e711b70ed2.jpg

And finally to cover the Necramech we can all agree that it's the one way that has the biggest potential to actually become a thing but Necramechs can only be used in very specific places and that's not really fun but if it's the only way then I'm cool with it and hopefully we can deploy Necramechs in normal missions eventually, the important thing is to get as many people here as possible so DE eventually finds this forum and hopefully someday opens this door, clearly I'm not the only one that wants this. :D

83ca329466e1d90ce450d86203ed5022.jpg

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On 2021-05-25 at 9:35 PM, (PSN)The_furry_backup said:

I get your point, I was thinking of something more along the lines of an exhalted ability but without having to waste energy to use it, just transform by dodging the same way limbo jumps into the rift, his jump to the rift used to be an ability that consumed energy and everyone hated it, they moved it to a custom dodge that regenerates your energy and now all limbo players love it, plus, when it comes to lore I think Valkyr was supposed to be more like an animal if you look at her Gersemi skin, she has a tail.

Depends on how you want to interpret the fine details of warframe creation, however Gersemi coming later than Prime is pretty solid. Valkyr is a unique case lore-wise because there is a lot of dancing on the time line in her particular case depending on if you believe DE reconed information or not. Generally it goes as follows: Primes > Defaults > Deluxes. Primes were evaluated by the Orokin directly. Whether or not there was a more crude prototype as a proof concept of each warframe is unknown but to the orokin never regarded the prime equipment as "primes"; they were just as their name. Fast forward to the universe present and you get "primes" as a denotation of orokin lost technology. Honestly, Umbra sort of throws out prototypes because they molded a frame around an afflected gift to "focus" its power.  Anyway, during the height of the Sentient war, defaults came to be as a mass produced solution for wartools. Deluxe versions are generally regarded as customized versions in special positions like say black-ops or special guardians. That being said, Deluxe don't necessarily need to come after defaults but Defaults are a direct line from Prime and the lack of gold would suggest they had less relevance to the orokin.

Now Valkyr was initially released as a creation of Alad V. Over time DE has sort have walked that back. People liked to think that Gersemi was the base and Alad V made her into the default but then the Prime came and it looks like the Default; which is what you would expect however no real connection to Gersemi. Since all Primes look more similar to the default (to our perception; in reality it is the reverse, the defaults look like the primes) it is safer and more simple to say we just don't have a unexperimented default version of Valkyr. Alad V likely took the frame apart and put it back together with his own parts; its part of the reason why he knew more about us than we did in the reveal of operators.

On 2021-05-25 at 9:35 PM, (PSN)The_furry_backup said:

In relation to the rig and model just use the rig and model of a kavat and scale the model in the engine to a size appropriate for a player, clearly not as tall as a player but not as short as a kavat, something in between that can fit through doors, in relation to animations just use the same idle animations that kavats have and if necesary they can be tweaked a bit but in general the base model just needs to be the one of a normal kavat, they have idle animations, they can jump, they can run, they can attack and I think they can even bullet jump, they just need to link those animations to the existing input commands in the script and increase the movementSpeed float value and they should be well on their way, that's way easier than having to make custom animations for normal warframes, and the model itself can be a tweaked version of a kavat, nobody will mind the similarities and some may even find them charming.

I mean it is a possible avenue but it is half-assed. most of the half measures DE takes I personally cant stand; like Chroma's new Passive (I won't digress too much but its a poor implementation of a triple jump just to give people some wings). Have you actually watched your companion do things?... Its not great. Some of the movement is okay but they would still needs to add all kinds of animations people generally take for granted (we can circle back to weapons later). Companion animation was definitely focused on the non-combat parts. They don't really bullet jump either, its just an extended jump animation. People generally let it go because its not something they will focus on because its just AI doing AI things. That wont be so if it going to be front and center as a player. Imagine showing that in promos after normal warframe gameplay, people would be like "what is happening? is that a bug?".  The devs have no benefit in doing that. It could be a proof a concept endeavor but I think professionalism would take over and they would just start from scratch to make it look good as well.

Also in Valkyr's case, she would need to break her joints. Quadruped movement is usually reverse jointed. They would need to do more heavy tweaks to the model to make that work.

On 2021-05-25 at 9:35 PM, (PSN)The_furry_backup said:

In relation to the weapons just have a bipedal mode and a quadriped mode and have no weapons equipped when you're in quadriped mode, just use a character-specific weapon called beast claws and fangs, something like Garuda's talons that are only available if you cary no melee weapon or Sevagoth's claws that are only available when you're using his exhalted form, then just use the normal kavat attack animations if none can be created, I don't mind the smaller details as long as I get to run around as a quadriped and I'm pretty sure many other people wouldn't mind either as long as we get the first step towards quadripeds or arachnids (no snakes yet, maybe someday, we can all dream).

Now to circle back to your Limbo comparison, doing your request is a little involved for a dodge roll. Trying to compare it to Limbo is a stretch. It is simpler to think of the actions associated with his roll as his passive. His passive is that he has a dimensional space called the Rift. You get energy in Rift and that is part of the properties of the Rift. The roll animation is just fancy way to access it now but it isn't actually a power/ability. Other frames have special rolls that are just different animations. One of Limbo's complaints to have that roll is that if can make fighting clunky. Its not real bad but it does need some foresight to how you approach a fight.

Your request on the other hand is basically a power. Both you examples of replaced weaponry are very limited examples. Sevagoth's is an exalted power; Garuda's you need to forego an actual melee weapon to be able to select them. If you intend on being able to switch between them with dodge roll than you create this clunky mess. If its not a power you can't use them during restricted content like sortie or alerts where weapon categories can be disabled (I don't think you can use Garudas Claws in melee restriction events). If you want it as a power you need to spend resources. Since dodge roll is a form of movement and evasion you will constantly be moving in and out of those states (like Limbo). This will undoubtedly cause issues where you end up in a state you don't want to be in at a particular time. Meaning you will need to roll again. Also as has been the pattern with model swaps and weapon combo count... you would likely lose you combo every time you roll in this case. Also are you still able to use your other abilities? Do they just revert you back to biped due to the animations? It is all just messy.

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I think a Mech is more likely than a frame, since Mechs aren't tied to all the various animations of stances, idles, emotes etc that warframes are: with Necramechs you have movement, aiming, melee and jumping: thats it; though why anyone would create a Quadruped mech is beyond me: sure, you can argue speed advantage, but it's a much more complex machine, meaning more things to go wrong, from a designer's point of view.

 

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We need some proper Mechs that move more fluidly and have weapons like missile batteries in addition to the turrets and melee weapons... like one of those older video games from the 1990s and 2000s.

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As mentioned by others, a necramech (or something else of its type should DE branch out faction-wise) would be more likely, since they already have a different animation skeleton (pun intended).

 

28 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Personally i think they need to get rid of necramechs and replace them with "mix and match your own warframe", big clunky mechs don't fit the theme of "space ninja".

I'll never understand why people think Warframe has to only be one thing.

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On 2021-05-15 at 1:06 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

Though the reason DE has given early on is that doing so will take a lot of resources because they would be basically starting from scratch. It is not that they couldn't do it but it isnt as simple of just "using other asset animations"; at least something what wont feel half-assed or visually unpleasing (that will be front and center as a player and not handwaved because of AI expectations). They have done a lot of their warframe modeling using Excalibur and Mag as base structures/models and rigging then did the subtle modifications from there (at least in the past maybe they have moved to something else now). So to move to a new joint type not only requires a new base model but new rigging. Then from there they need to adjust all the motions for every interaction in the game... jumping, weapon type grips, momentum, stances, reactions, etc etc.  It is a huge front loaded situation to do this. To reduce that, they would need to restrict what can be done in such a form. 

While this is obviously a big deterrent for DE, they have gone out of their comfort zone with Sevigoth. I can't think of anything else in the game he shares animations or assets with. It took them the better part of a year, but they did it

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