Redfeather75 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 This mod doesn't protect against multishot apparently. Self staggers all over despite the mods description. It is so expensive and costs so much mod capacity too. That can't be right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 it's only 90%. that's the real trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfeather75 Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, taiiat said: it's only 90%. that's the real trap. I think it should be changed to outright stagger immunity while aiming that weapon. Just like the archgun mod Resolute Focus. Although from what I understand Resolute Focus is bugged in it's own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 hours ago, taiiat said: it's only 90%. that's the real trap. Practically speaking, it's far worse than that. First off, it only reduces stagger severity. Second, multishot makes it just about non-functional, rather than doing what the probabilities would suggest. I've seen it reduce stagger with multi before so I know it's possible, but I just did a test with a 100% multi Lenz and went through 4 ammo pools / 28 shots and got the maximum stagger every single time before getting bored. I also retested without multishot, and was getting roughly the expected amounts of reduced staggers versus full staggers. I'm sure it's not a popular opinion, but I actually -like- the general idea of reducing severity better than that of eliminating stagger entirely (i.e., PFS and abilities) but only if it does something like it says on the package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfeather75 Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 Just now, Tiltskillet said: Practically speaking, it's far worse than that. First off, it only reduces stagger severity. Second, multishot makes it just about non-functional, rather than doing what the probabilities would suggest. I've seen it reduce stagger with multi before so I know it's possible, but I just did a test with a 100% multi Lenz and went through 4 ammo pools / 28 shots and got the maximum stagger every single time before getting bored. I also retested without multishot, and was getting roughly the expected amounts of reduced staggers versus full staggers. I'm sure it's not a popular opinion, but I actually -like- the general idea of reducing severity better than that of eliminating stagger entirely (i.e., PFS and abilities) but only if it does something like it says on the package. How do you feel about it doing something stronger, but only while aiming. I like it and it fits the name cautious shot nicely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said: How do you feel about it doing something stronger, but only while aiming. I like it and it fits the name cautious shot nicely! It's thematic to tie it to aiming, sure. Though I'd sooner have it as a new mod rather than replace (a working version of) Cautious Shot. How do you mean stronger, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfeather75 Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said: It's thematic to tie it to aiming, sure. Though I'd sooner have it as a new mod rather than replace (a working version of) Cautious Shot. How do you mean stronger, exactly? Like if it is an aimed shot then a flinch is negated and a knockdown becomes a flinch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said: Practically speaking, it's far worse than that. yep. winning a minor lottery once is doable, winning multiple times simultaneously is.... not really gonna happen. if it was 100% then 50 Projectiles wouldn't matter, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 54 minutes ago, taiiat said: yep. winning a minor lottery once is doable, winning multiple times simultaneously is.... not really gonna happen. Just in case it's not clear: it's bugged. There should be an 81% chance of it reducing the severity of a two projectile self stagger. I don't know what the chance actually is, but it's less than 10% But as far as the larger issue goes, I don't think I'd have a problem with it not being chance-based at all. Or maybe a hybrid like automatically reducing staggers by one step, but, on top of that, having a chance to reduce them by two. 1 hour ago, taiiat said: if it was 100% then 50 Projectiles wouldn't matter, though. You're more confident than me. 😄 Pretty much off topic, but... Spoiler To take a funny example of DE's version of 100% not working 100% of the time, see Castanas. They've got a 100% chance to inflict a forced electric proc, and can be modded for 100% status chance on top of that. But if you detonate them in the air, you don't get the forced proc; and if you detonate them on a target, they only inflict a natural proc occasionally. Are these bugs or undocumented features? I don't know, but it's 100% 💩 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said: Just in case it's not clear: it's bugged. There should be an 81% chance of it reducing the severity of a two projectile self stagger. I don't know what the chance actually is, but it's less than 10% But as far as the larger issue goes, I don't think I'd have a problem with it not being chance-based at all. Or maybe a hybrid like automatically reducing staggers by one step, but, on top of that, having a chance to reduce them by two. idk about straight broken, but the math should be the usual double inverse cheat, so 1 - 0.1 == 0.9 0.9^(number of instances) inverse back again oh, yeah that's 81%. failing an 80% success numerous times isn't exactly crazy, hard to say. sure, always Tier down and a Chance to be fancier than that works too. 1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said: You're more confident than me. oh, right. i forgot that this is Warframe, 100% isn't good enough. *cough* Primed Sure Footed *cough* 105% then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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