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I can't get excited about Gara Prime since Xaku exists


(NSW)Reason

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So Gara was my very first full build frame, loved the thing, and I remember having so much fun reading guides and learning the ins and outs and tricks to get the frame to be a huge power house. I remember the huge sense of accomplishment once I got it up and running, and finally being able to do long run arbis felt so much fun.

Then they released Xaku.

Xaku just does everything Gara does but better. They don't require a stat stick, they don't require a ritual to maintain damage, they don't have to balance between range/duration/strength delicately in order to be effective, they easily get better range than splinter shield, and even if Gara can instagib high level enemies quicker than Xaku, the time difference is minimal, like a two second difference with Xaku also able to armour strip in a huge area, making them better for group runs too. Also, I don't have to worry about a massive damage drop off and DPS downtime if I accidentally die or even fall off the map and have to reset the counter. I can just one click and become a death ball instantly again. Furthermore, I can use whatever weapons I want, I don't have to rely on some high dispo riven in order to have efficient damage gains as it is on Gara.

I guess Gara slightly edges out Xaku on being able to protect a target, but with Xaku's freedom of movement and ability to just fly around and never stop, everything usually dies before they even reach a target. It's a nearly non-issue.

 

Please please please have a look at Gara. He desperately needs a few tweaks, have splinter shield damage scale off duration, or make 4 be able to be shattered from inside, or some other tweaks for just general quality of life for Gara players.

 

(Or really, Xaku kinda needs a nerf)

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Xaku needing a nerf? pffft

Xaku was so trash on release that there was enough of a backlash for him to get a near immediate rework. since the rework he's pretty strong, but there are things that Gara can do better. defending a large area comes to mind: even if you build for a "million guns" Grasp of Lohk build, some enemies are bound to sneak by offscreen and start wailing on the objective, whereas Gara's Mass Vitrify keeps them out completely, and the AI usually takes a moment to figure out the glass is breakable: normally they break it because they see me inside and shoot at me, so the glass takes the damage.

Gara can also tank pretty well too with her 2nd. both Xaku and Gara are good at clearing rooms though. all frames have strengths and weaknesses, and both Gara And Xaku work relatively well in the majority of situations. ultimately I'd say the choice comes down to playstyle and preference: I take Gara personally, but that's just me. 

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hace 7 minutos, (NSW)Reason dijo:

Please please please have a look at Gara. He desperately needs a few tweaks, have splinter shield damage scale off duration, or make 4 be able to be shattered from inside, or some other tweaks for just general quality of life for Gara players.

 

(Or really, Xaku kinda needs a nerf)

Wkwkwkw Reaction GIF by MOODMAN

Xaku are fine as they are and your description of what Xaku do is just like the description of any other frame so this is not Xaku overshadowing Gara.

hace 4 minutos, DrivaMain dijo:

Gara is fine, there are many more frames that desperately need attention. Maybe you should check out Hydroid, our new F tier frame.

As Driva said, there are warframes that really need a closer look more than Gara such as Hydroid, Atlas or Banshee so maybe they could tweak a few things to Gara like they did with Atlas, Zephyr, Ash.. a while ago but she is fine.

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This has to be one of the most bizarre threads in a while - Gara and Xaku are absolutely nothing like each other,

I do like how it eventually turns into a rework proposal, tho. Warframe forums entropy dictates that everything eventually becomes a pointless rework thread, I guess.

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oh, then i guess you would be as equally disappointed if you were playing back when hydroid prime release, valkyr p release, ... or the future garuda prime release, grendel prime release assuming they won't have a rework before then, given how all of those frames have other frames doing things better than them. May be you think that playing xaku make playing gara feel underwhelming, but then just keep playing xaku till he's power-creeped by another frame or till you bored with him.

No frames should be changed just because another frames do a better job than them, as doing that would just similar to chasing one's own tail.

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I mean with this way of reasoning we do not technically need any frame ever because we have Saryn and Octavia. However even if a frame is 100% better than the other one just use the one you like anyway.

 

Really a frame is only as good as the person using them. So if you are a better Gara than Xaku than you will get more value form Gara. What this means however is that you might need to put in a little more work. Plus I feel you should pick frames based on themes you enjoy, rather than who is meta.

 

But in all honesty I really do not see how Xaku makes Gara irrelevant. Xaku cannot protect squamates or targets, which already makes him less valuable.

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I have barely played Gara, and have played a good amount of Xaku, and know that they aren't really comparable by a long shot. At most, you can say they are offensive/defensive counterparts to each other, but even then that's a stretch considering the vast differences between them.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Reason said:

(Or really, Xaku kinda needs a nerf)

Went from being a warframe with a kit that was literally unusable to needing a nerf? how comical

 

 

48 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Xaku cannot protect squamates or targets, which already makes him less valuable.

Not being able to protect squadmates is irrelevant, most players can sustain themselves just fine, and not being able to protect targets is also irrelevant if you already have enough DPS to kill them before it becomes an issue.

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48 minutes ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

Not being able to protect squadmates is irrelevant,

Its definitely not, in high level content it is very helpful and not every frame is super tanky. Nor does everyone run sustain builds. Unless you tell me everyone on XBOX runs rhino and inaros. Also DPS will not help you if you are suiciding yourself to kill things. Everyone can use protection, especially in boss fights and the steel path. I see players die all the time in the steel path, even tanks.

 

Also how will you protect targets? They do not have sustain builds you know. Don't tell you can kill them fast enough, they will chip the targets health eventually on higher levels. Keep in mind you that targets cannot be healed in certain modes too as well as wonder and get themselves killed. Plus Gara's dome can physically block things from coming in, which is very helpful.

 

Also if DPS is the only thing that matters why not just go Saryn? She is a better Xaku anyway since DPS is apparently the only thing that matters. In fact why don't we remove every frame and just keep Saryn?

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25 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Its definitely not, in high level content it is very helpful and not every frame is super tanky. Nor does everyone run sustain builds. Unless you tell everyone on XBOX runs rhino and inaros. Also DPS will not help you if you are suiciding yourself to kill things. Everyone can use protection, especially in boss fights and the steel path. I see players die all the time in the steel path, even tanks.

You don't even need a tank frame to be able to survive in high-level content, if you're mobile, utilize your CC abilities, actively kill enemies, and most importantly abuse shield-gating and operator form, you're basically invincible. I can run insanely high levels with Khora or Xaku with minimal effort without worrying about damage. Of course since I can do that, doesn't mean EVERY one can, but most players absolutely do not need further help when their loadouts are already have multiple tools for survival (unless they're simply just bad of course).

30 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Also how will you protect targets? They do not have sustain builds you know. Don't tell you can kill them fast enough, they will chip the targets health eventually on higher levels. Keep in mind you that targets cannot be healed in certain modes too. Plus Gara's dome can physically block things from coming in, which is very helpful.

I was somewhat joking in this response, as I said not being able to protect targets is also irrelevant if you already have enough DPS to kill them before it becomes an issue. Unless you're doing an endurance run or something, defending a defense target is still mostly irrelevant if you kill enemies quick enough to negate damage. Chip damage is...well chip damage, not that important in 99% of scenarios.

 

33 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

Also if DPS is the only thing that matters why not just go Saryn? She is a better Xaku anyway since DPS is apparently the only thing that matters. In fact why don't we remove every frame and just keep Saryn?

I cannot comprehend what prompted this response, or what made you think that was an intelligent response. This is an incredibly hot take but Saryn isn't even THAT good as a dps, she especially falls-off in higher-levels where her spores need to build-up before they do anything. Xaku doesn't need ANY build-up, Grasp of Lohk and Gaze will instant-kill any enemy at any level, even level 9999 enemies will get absolutely dunked on. As DPS frames, they're still fundamentally different, while Saryn can do one thing Xaku can do another. That "why don't we remove every frame and just keep Saryn?" comment was very weird, especially in this context.

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2 hours ago, (NSW)Reason said:

I guess lotta people never bothered to figure out how to use Gara properly. It's a death ball frame, just like Xaku. Also asking for Gara to be tweaked doesn't some how magically mean every other is perfect

Using gara "properly" is not just making her a death ball. her thing is defense+, and you can build her for either. you claim to know all the ins and outs but neglect both her other builds and the fact that her schtick is defense with bonuses

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27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

You don't even need a tank frame to be able to survive in high-level content, if you're mobile, utilize your CC abilities, actively kill enemies, and most importantly abuse shield-gating and operator form, you're basically invincible. I can run insanely high levels with Khora or Xaku with minimal effort without worrying about damage. Of course since I can do that, doesn't mean EVERY one can, but most players absolutely do not need further help when their loadouts are already have multiple tools for survival (unless they're simply just bad of course).

But it greatly helps, and not everyone being able to sustain themselves is my point. That does not necessarily mean they are bad, maybe they just do not have the right equipment. Therefore would protecting them not be irrelevant?

 

If you have a full squad of pre made high sustainable tenno then that is good. Yet from my experince that is not always the case.

 

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

I was somewhat joking in this response, as I said not being able to protect targets is also irrelevant if you already have enough DPS to kill them before it becomes an issue. Unless you're doing an endurance run or something, defending a defense target is still mostly irrelevant if you kill enemies quick enough to negate damage. Chip damage is...well chip damage, not that important in 99% of scenarios.

Don't take this the wrong way, but its text so it is hard to tell if you are joking. 

 

The thing is though, not everything will be killable right from the get go. I mention boss fights before but I feel protection is very important there. Since most of the dangerous high level bosses can magnetically proc you, taking away your energy and thus your survivability. In addition to their invulnerability.

 

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

I cannot comprehend what prompted this response, or what made you think that was an intelligent response.

Just like with your comment above this is my way of joking too. Was trying to emphasize how damage is not super important.

 

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

This is an incredibly hot take but Saryn isn't even THAT good as a dps, she especially falls-off in higher-levels where her spores need to build-up before they do anything.

I mean yea that is a big hot take but I also agree with it since her damage needs to ramp up. Its why I use Saryn as an example since everything thinks she is the best of the best.

 

TBF if you asked who the best DPS frame is you would think I am high.

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14 minutes ago, WH1735S0W said:

But it greatly helps, and not everyone being able to sustain themselves is my point. That does not necessarily mean they are bad, maybe they just do not have the right equipment. Therefore would protecting them not be irrelevant?

 

If you have a full squad of pre made high sustainable tenno then that is good. Yet from my experince that is not always the case.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but its text so it is hard to tell if you are joking. 

 

The thing is though, not everything will be killable right from the get go. I mention boss fights before but I feel protection is very important there. Since most of the dangerous high level bosses can magnetically proc you, taking away your energy and thus your survivability. In addition to their invulnerability.

 

Just like with your comment above this is my way of joking too. Was trying to emphasize how damage is not super important.

 

I mean yea that is a big hot take but I also agree with it since her damage needs to ramp up. Its why I use Saryn as an example since everything thinks she is the best of the best.

 

TBF if you asked who the best DPS frame is you would think I am high.

Fair point, especially in random missions I could see why boosting your teammate's survivability is valuable, personally I haven't ran into that issue often so I don't think too much about my teammate's wellbeing (as horrible as that sounds). I agree somewhat on the boss-fights, most star-chart bosses really do not warrant any effort to kill honestly, if anything they're just annoying. On bosses like Tridolons or Profit Taker, I agree 100%, and yea satire through text is hard to detect, sorry for being rude in my previous reply.

Also do tell who you think the best DPS frame is, I mean unless you said Loki or something I'd probably won't even consider you insane at all, lol.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

sorry for being rude in my previous reply.

All good, I might have been rude myself so sorry about that as well.

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

Also do tell who you think the best DPS frame is, I mean unless you said Loki or something I'd probably won't even consider you insane at all, lol.

Lol, well I personally feel the new Zephyr is definitely up there. Her tornadoes where buffed to grab, hold, and take status effects better. Apparently shooting a high crit gas weapon in the air into the tornadoes causes them to shred apart anything.

Not exactly sure how it works but the basic jest is that Zephyr gets an extra 100% crit chance while in the air and her tornadoes are able to absorb every damage type. Including status effects, crit damage and even the damage bonus from bane mods. In fact they amplify crit damage by 200% for enemies inside the tornados. As for gas, I'll be honest I am not sure why it is stupidly good but from what I heard gas lingers longer than other effects resulting in more damage stacking. Overall this results in Zephyr killing very high level enemies in one shot.

This might explain it better though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyJrSJMI3to&ab_channel=AshisogiTenno

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I am not sure i get the reason for comparing Gara with Xaku of all things ,

Gara is more of an Area Denial and Scaling Area + touch Damage frame [with high survivability and support with moderate CC potential]

Xaku is ... an Area Debuff CC frame with scaling DPS [and questionable survivability]

If you only focus on the scaling DPS/touch Damage then i suppose you aren't wrong , but that's only one part of their kit.

 

I personally am not a gara fan despite her having almost everything i like in a frame (survivability , CC , and damage) cause of the "ritual" dependency as you mentioned and for some reason i just dont feel she "flows" well , thats probably a me problem more than an issue with the frame itself.

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12 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Xaku was so trash on release that there was enough of a backlash for him to get a near immediate rework. since the rework he's pretty strong,

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

Went from being a warframe with a kit that was literally unusable to needing a nerf? how comical

Xaku wasn't in trash state and his changes were "planed".

 

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