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I think that nova's wormhole should be reworked/changed visually.


elitharcos

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I love nova's idea behind worm hole which basically teleports you to a place you select and anyone entering it, but I think it could have an even better application so I came up with an idea.

What if Nova's worm hole would work on non-euclidean base?

By that what is meant is that when you look into it, it would show you the other side and you can walk/jump through it smoothly. Also instead of putting it in the air in front of you it would put it on the ground always below you and similarly to hydroid's mechanic the area you select. Also making it 2 sided and limit reduced to 1.

Additional changes:

-Range no longer affects how far it goes

-Range affects how big the wormhole is

-Duration would affect energy cost to keep the worm hole up

-You would be upside down for 2 seconds after jumping into a wormhole.

 

 

Here is a video what I am thinking about:

 

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14 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

Also instead of putting it in the air in front of you it would put it on the ground always below you and similarly to hydroid's mechanic the area you select. Also making it 2 sided and limit reduced to 1.

Additional changes:

-Range no longer affects how far it goes

-Range affects how big the wormhole is

-Duration would affect energy cost to keep the worm hole up

-You would be upside down for 2 seconds after jumping into a wormhole.

 

I love Nova, her Wormhole ability is my favorite part about the entire game, pointing somewhere and teleporting there is something I wanted from a video game for a long time before I found Warframe.

 

Everything I bolded, would ruin the ability.

 

Forcing you to the ground would make it impossible to recover from a botched wormhole or bullet jump midair. It would also ruin returning back to the ground quickly to refresh your bullet jump.

 

Reducing your limit to 1, would take away the cooperative factor of the ability, I would now be unable to place a string of portals to the extraction for my slowpoke teammates, this is also a big reason I stick to Nova instead of going for lightspeed Titania.

 

How far would a wormhole go in your version? If I have to place both sides of the wormhole, I can no longer use it to be fast, only to make others faster.

Being able to increase the size of the entrance would be a good idea if everyone plays nice, but it would make it easy for trolls to prevent progress in small hallways.

No channeled ability cost for the wormhole please, I don't want to keep them up that long, it would also increase the trolling potential too much.

 

I do not want to be upside down, just no.

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2 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

I love Nova, her Wormhole ability is my favorite part about the entire game, pointing somewhere and teleporting there is something I wanted from a video game for a long time before I found Warframe.

 

Everything I bolded, would ruin the ability.

 

Forcing you to the ground would make it impossible to recover from a botched wormhole or bullet jump midair. It would also ruin return back to the ground quickly to refresh your bullet jump.

 

Reducing your limit to 1, would take away the cooperative factor of the ability, I would now be unable to place a string of portals to the extraction for my slowpoke teammates, this is also a big reason I stick to Nova instead of going for lightspeed Titania.

 

How far would a wormhole go in your version? If I have to place both sides of the wormhole, I can no longer use it to be fast, only to make others faster.

Being able to increase the size of the entrance would be a good idea if everyone plays nice, but it would make it easy for trolls to prevent progress in small hallways.

No channeled ability cost for the wormhole please, I don't want to keep them up that long, it would also increase the trolling potential too much.

 

I do not want to be upside down, just no.

Then just make it non-euclidean because that would definetly be an update to it. I play this game since 2013, so I have seen it's ability enough times already, but with a non-euclidean version I would be more comforted. Being able to see where i land more accurately.

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29 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

Then just make it non-euclidean because that would definetly be an update to it. I play this game since 2013, so I have seen it's ability enough times already, but with a non-euclidean version I would be more comforted. Being able to see where i land more accurately.

Yeah, a visual touch up would be pretty sweet for most of her abilities.

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It sounds like a coding nightmare. To get it to work in that capacity in a game like Warframe, it's more than simply rendering different viewpoints in a low-poly environment. You'd have to factor in entry- and exit-vectors of all projectiles on every point on both planes in addition to rendering the visible environment twice. As it is right now, when a bullet hits the wormhole, its trajectory only needs to remain constant coming from the end point regardless of where on the hole it enters, but for the way it sounds like you want it to work, the wormhole would have to do that on a much, much broader scale, then multiplied by two or four or however many pairs of wormholes you end up making.

I'd absolutely love it if the current one-way wormhole actually offered visual feedback of what was on the other side to make shooting through it more engaging, but can understand the technical barriers behind pulling it off. Then again they pulled some black magic with Railjack so maybe they could find a way to get it to work.

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11 minutes ago, Alpheus said:

It sounds like a coding nightmare. To get it to work in that capacity in a game like Warframe, it's more than simply rendering different viewpoints in a low-poly environment. You'd have to factor in entry- and exit-vectors of all projectiles on every point on both planes in addition to rendering the visible environment twice. As it is right now, when a bullet hits the wormhole, its trajectory only needs to remain constant coming from the end point regardless of where on the hole it enters, but for the way it sounds like you want it to work, the wormhole would have to do that on a much, much broader scale, then multiplied by two or four or however many pairs of wormholes you end up making.

I'd absolutely love it if the current one-way wormhole actually offered visual feedback of what was on the other side to make shooting through it more engaging, but can understand the technical barriers behind pulling it off. Then again they pulled some black magic with Railjack so maybe they could find a way to get it to work.

Lol coding nightmare... Do I have to do this again?

"But can understand the technical barriers behind pulling it off"

I am not going to explain this as well, I have explained stuff like that enough time on different topics, if you have doubts in the programmers of this game to be able to pull it off sure, but I want to remind you that this is basically how railjack works... That is why none of the abilities affect the ship's outside like limbo's ability, etc. They literally just scaled the ship's outer view, removed the ship's model from the cameras and that is what you see when you look out of the glass. I am going to show you a video where I bug out.

If you pay close attention, you can see that it teleports me out at the place, BUT we are not technically present in that space, we are in another room that doesn't exist in the playspace. They are ALREADY using these techniques. The only thing that they would have to tweak on this is that the projectiles come out at the corresponding part of the protal... but I think that's not the hard part tbh.

 

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2 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

Lol coding nightmare... Do I have to do this again?

"But can understand the technical barriers behind pulling it off"

I am not going to explain this as well, I have explained stuff like that enough time on different topics, if you have doubts in the programmers of this game to be able to pull it off sure, but I want to remind you that this is basically how railjack works... That is why none of the abilities affect the ship's outside like limbo's ability, etc. They literally just scaled the ship's outer view, removed the ship's model from the cameras and that is what you see when you look out of the glass. I am going to show you a video where I bug out.

If you pay close attention, you can see that it teleports me out at the place, BUT we are not technically present in that space, we are in another room that doesn't exist in the playspace. They are ALREADY using these techniques.

 

I'm well aware of the methods they used to get Railjack to work. What you're suggesting is a different can of beans. Portal is basically exactly analogous to what you're talking about (the turret's hitscan bullets maintain trajectory) but the key difference between that and Warframe is the simplicity of Portal's environments to allow for rendering the scene multiple times. Portal doesn't have hundreds of bullets, bombs, and grenades firing in all manner of directions at a constant rate, the scenes hardly ever have particle effects, and the portals are 2D holes. The current visual of Wormhole isn't even accurate to its function. If you wanted a true depiction of how Wormhole works, it'd look more like this or this.

Like I said I don't doubt they could figure it out, but I'm not going to downplay the technical challenge in actually getting it to work seamlessly in something as chaotic as Warframe as opposed to a low-poly, local environment. It's not a switch they can just turn on.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

So you want to turn it from a quick high speed one way tunnel into just a portal from the game portal? Why? 
 

I like the idea, but why not instead advocate for a frame with that portal concept so that it can be expanded upon as opposed to shoe horned into nova

Because nova's ability is basically portal, just without the visuals, that's why lol.

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4 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

Because nova's ability is basically portal, just without the visuals, that's why lol.

Except its not. Novas portal is esentially just a quick directional speed boost taken to its max speed, instantaneous. What you’re suggestion is a whole new doorway, that would both be a pain to code since it wouldnt be limited to specific surfaces like in Portal, while also causing who knows how many traversal and map geometry bugs. 

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18 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Except its not. Novas portal is esentially just a quick directional speed boost taken to its max speed, instantaneous. What you’re suggestion is a whole new doorway, that would both be a pain to code since it wouldnt be limited to specific surfaces like in Portal, while also causing who knows how many traversal and map geometry bugs. 

 

Yeah, it would be a pain to code... I mean, not like if I had done the 2D version in like... what? maybe an hour?

 

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9 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

 

Yeah, it would be a pain to code... I mean, not like if I had done the 2D version in like... what? maybe an hour?

 

The fact that you assume replicating something like Portal in a completely different game engine with who knows how many thousands of lines of code would be easy because you could whip up a 2d version on ms paint is proof enough you do not understand coding. 

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Just now, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

The fact that you assume replicating something like Portal in a completely different game engine with who knows how many thousands of lines of code would be easy because you could whip up a 2d version on ms paint is proof enough you do not understand coding. 

LOL mspaint...

Tell me what is your profession if I may ask mr programmer? I am curious now, I am questioning your knowledge on the topic, I have shown something as of proof that it is POSSIBLE at least on the 2D plane in another engine. UNDER 1 HOUR NOT MORE.

The fact that you come with "Thousands of lines of code" and "How hard it is". Come, tell me how hard it is, I want to hear every single detail about it. I also have seen other engines, like unity, unreal engine, learned c++, C#, lua and basic as well. So now come and tell me the hard stuff what I have probably not seen this far.

I mean, I have replicated the portal method in another random engine with who knows how many lines of code. The fact that I could replicate it in a SIMPLE engine should mean that a bigger/better engine should be capable of the same thing.

Now it's your time, what can you show me? I mean as of proof, that it is not possible code wise. I mean a hard proof, not just a "But that's too hard to code" if people lived by that we would be long extinct as an honest opinion.

I understand that some people like to spaghetti code, I understand that many programs use thousands of lines of code, BUT I also understand that if you want to make a new mechanic in a program, it is never impossible. People who say "You can't do that" are the same people in my opinion who actually cannot do that.

Wheter something is possible or not depends on the approach used and I am calling it, warframe has the potential to do it and talented people to make it come true if they just decide to.

If I asked you to make the same program as I did, using any engine of your choice, could you do it? Just a simple program where the same thing happens, think about that. Any engine.

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44 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

LOL mspaint...

Tell me what is your profession if I may ask mr programmer? I am curious now, I am questioning your knowledge on the topic, I have shown something as of proof that it is POSSIBLE at least on the 2D plane in another engine. UNDER 1 HOUR NOT MORE.

The fact that you come with "Thousands of lines of code" and "How hard it is". Come, tell me how hard it is, I want to hear every single detail about it. I also have seen other engines, like unity, unreal engine, learned c++, C#, lua and basic as well. So now come and tell me the hard stuff what I have probably not seen this far.

I mean, I have replicated the portal method in another random engine with who knows how many lines of code. The fact that I could replicate it in a SIMPLE engine should mean that a bigger/better engine should be capable of the same thing.

Now it's your time, what can you show me? I mean as of proof, that it is not possible code wise. I mean a hard proof, not just a "But that's too hard to code" if people lived by that we would be long extinct as an honest opinion.

I understand that some people like to spaghetti code, I understand that many programs use thousands of lines of code, BUT I also understand that if you want to make a new mechanic in a program, it is never impossible. People who say "You can't do that" are the same people in my opinion who actually cannot do that.

Wheter something is possible or not depends on the approach used and I am calling it, warframe has the potential to do it and talented people to make it come true if they just decide to.

If I asked you to make the same program as I did, using any engine of your choice, could you do it? Just a simple program where the same thing happens, think about that. Any engine.

Where are you getting that I said it would be impossible? Its obviously possible because its been done before, but is it simple, or reasonable for a game like warframe? The answer is still no. 
 

For someone with your apparent background in computer languages I would hope you understand the time/effort/reward balance that is held by many in the industry, but apparently you’re more hellbent on flexing an epeen because you could scrounge up something in an hour. Bravo, you want a cookie. 
 

Ill consider this my last statement on the topic. In my first comment I mentioned I liked the idea, just on a new frame instead of replacing novas 3, but ya know what? #*!% it. You’re idea sucks. Not because it is poor, but because the person behind it is unwilling to consider alternative routes. 

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8 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Speaking of which, you got some bugs in your spaghetti, as seen around the 1:14 mark of the video. Just sayin'.

I have rewatched it and have no idea what bug you are talking about. Honestly. Everything is working as it was intended. The program was written simple so if i pressed a button it would put me a depth behind and if I pressed it again it would throw me a depth forward, meaning that I had to press a button to make it a 3D similar walking through a portal. That is not a bug if that's what you were talking about, I just didn't press spacebar when leaving the "portal" and it didn't go through. So again, this is not a bug. It was intended, because you are supposed to walk in front of nova's portal as well. If you hadn't seen it I did that multiple times in the video.

I like it when people call something a "bug" not realising that this is how the program works lol. I did the same at 0:33 as well, I just wanted to show that it is possible to walk in front of the portal without entering it, meaning you have to enter it. at 0:57 I even play around with it to show how it works.

 

9 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Where are you getting that I said it would be impossible? Its obviously possible because its been done before, but is it simple, or reasonable for a game like warframe? The answer is still no. 
 

For someone with your apparent background in computer languages I would hope you understand the time/effort/reward balance that is held by many in the industry, but apparently you’re more hellbent on flexing an epeen because you could scrounge up something in an hour. Bravo, you want a cookie. 
 

Ill consider this my last statement on the topic. In my first comment I mentioned I liked the idea, just on a new frame instead of replacing novas 3, but ya know what? #*!% it. You’re idea sucks. Not because it is poor, but because the person behind it is unwilling to consider alternative routes. 

That is what I am saying, there are tons of possible alternative routes to this problem which could make it so that it is possible, again you didn't say anything constructive to consider in my opinion and if you want to throw out an idea because the person behind it is a bit hotheaded (I am hotheaded, because I have seen thousands of times what people consider hard and it is not at all that hard as mentioned... ever...) then fine, but I would ask you what alternative routes I didn't consider. I never said this is the only way, I just said it is possible to make an optimized version of it what people would most likely be pleasant with.

but to be fair as well... after slowly 6 years of learning how to program it could just be me who sees behind these issues... That one hour is not a flex, that one hour simply means that it didn't take long time at all, that is a standard for me, not a flex. I just meant that it shouldn't take much more time even if you include the other variables(which btw you don't have to...) this literally is nothing else, but a playing with the cameras and locations, but that's it. There are thousands of more complex mechanisms.

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3 hours ago, elitharcos said:

I had to press a button to make it a 3D similar walking through a portal.

Ah, gotcha. I had expected it to sense stuff entering it, as would be necessary, and not just be a "press X to teleport" square. Yeah, my bad, it's not a bug. It's just incredibly incomplete. Not an occasional flaw, but a constant one.

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2 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Ah, gotcha. I had expected it to sense stuff entering it, as would be necessary, and not just be a "press X to teleport" square. Yeah, my bad, it's not a bug. It's just incredibly incomplete. Not an occasional flaw, but a constant one.

Again... no... it is very similar to how you press W to move forward... and upon reaching the barrier it pushes you to the other location... you know... what my idea suggest as well... You really don't know how programming works, do you? if it was to be in 3D this would be the very mechanism as of what you use to walk forward or backwards... So yeah... again... that is not an issue...

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20 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Ah, gotcha. I had expected it to sense stuff entering it, as would be necessary, and not just be a "press X to teleport" square. Yeah, my bad, it's not a bug. It's just incredibly incomplete. Not an occasional flaw, but a constant one.

Here is another video with edited sizes so you see what happens really. The thing is that inside the program since it is 2D I had to simulate the forward and backwards as well to showcase my idea. The up and down in warframe is the jump and falling, in 2D however I lack the z axis, so instead I had to make a variable that uses it, in the following video I demonstrate what happens if it was based on models. you appear smaller in the portal that is in front of you and appear smaller on the portal that's behind you. 

In short: Everything in the video that is smaller = further; larger = closer.

 

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45 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

if it was to be in 3D this would be the very mechanism as of what you use to walk forward or backwards... So yeah... again... that is not an issue...

The issue still remains: The only way to go through the portal is to "Press X to enter". It might surprise you to learn that projectiles don't "press W to move forward" (which, interestingly enough, you seem incapable of doing in the video except when inside the "portal"). Rather, they travel via force (with velocity and whatnot), requiring some form of collision detection in order to go through the portal. And let's not get into hitscan or NPCs - it's not just players that can use Nova's Worm Hole, you know? Besides, you also seem to have forgotten about gravity.

In short, to quote you, 

45 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

You really don't know how programming works, do you?

 

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6 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

The issue still remains: The only way to go through the portal is to "Press X to enter". It might surprise you to learn that projectiles don't "press W to move forward" (which, interestingly enough, you seem incapable of doing in the video except when inside the "portal"). Rather, they travel via force (with velocity and whatnot), requiring some form of collision detection in order to go through the portal. And let's not get into hitscan or NPCs - it's not just players that can use Nova's Worm Hole, you know? Besides, you also seem to have forgotten about gravity.

In short, to quote you, 

 

Okay so let me translate to you what you say sounds like in actuality:

"It is a problem, that you have to move forward, into the portal in order to get to the other side of the portal". That button I press, does NOT resemble X in warframe, that button I press resembles the W and S in warframe as you move through the portal so to quote myself again:

1 hour ago, elitharcos said:

You really don't know how programming works, do you?

Edit: I was just simply too lazy to make it dynamically shift size in the showcase. I am at this point on the level that I am about to even enter the x,y,z values of the object so you see that what happens is not a button being pressed, but z getting a -1 modifier or +1 depending on which side of the portal you are...

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5 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

that button I press resembles the W and S in warframe as you move through the portal

Lemme simplify the issue for you a bit further.

Projectiles, bullets, and enemies do not have a W key.

To quote you once more:

1 hour ago, elitharcos said:

You really don't know how programming works, do you?

 

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Just now, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Lemme simplify the issue for you a bit further.

Projectiles, bullets, and enemies do not have a W key.

To quote you once more:

 

YOU ARE NOT PRESSING A FREAKING BUTTON BUT INSTEAD MOVE ON THE FREAKING Z AXIS , WHAT DO YOU NOT GET ON THAT? THE BUTTON PRESS IS ONLY NEEDED SO THE AXIS CHANGES IN THE Z DIRECTION, FOR NOTHING ELSE IT IS NEEDED.

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3 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

YOU ARE NOT PRESSING A FREAKING BUTTON BUT INSTEAD MOVE ON THE FREAKING Z AXIS , WHAT DO YOU NOT GET ON THAT? THE BUTTON PRESS IS ONLY NEEDED SO THE AXIS CHANGES IN THE Z DIRECTION, FOR NOTHING ELSE IT IS NEEDED.

That's a lot of full caps from someone who's clearly pressing a "FREAKING BUTTON" to move through the portal, as evident by the fact that that portal of yours obviously doesn't work without player input. But don't take my word for it!

5 hours ago, elitharcos said:

if i pressed a button it would put me a depth behind and if I pressed it again it would throw me a depth forward, meaning that I had to press a button to make it a 3D similar walking through a portal.

 

1 hour ago, elitharcos said:

it is very similar to how you press W to move forward

 

19 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

that button I press resembles the W and S in warframe as you move through the portal

And again, 

14 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Projectiles, bullets, and enemies do not have a W key.

 

22 minutes ago, elitharcos said:

You really don't know how programming works, do you?

 

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