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Steel Path SORTIE


ZeroX4

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14 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

What is the point that is being missed?  I don't want to assume and don't want to put words in your mouth.

Personally, I do feel like unequipping mods is a great solution for players that are looking for more difficulty.  I am unsure if anyone else is in the same boat, but I did find the Grendel missions to be a challenge, in that I actually felt the need to tailor my squad setup to the mission at hand, rather than just going into the mission with whatever Warframes and weapons I had because it just doesn't matter.  And if the Grendel missions wouldn't have made you sweat, there are plenty of higher-level missions to try with the same approach, including the existing Steel Path.

And one of the biggest benefits of removing mods for difficulty is that the devs don't have to do any further work for you to have it, and the game's meta isn't going to be disrupted because of it.

Yea why should players be able to both use the effort they have put in to fight more dangerous mobs etc. AND get improved rewards!? Inconceivable! 

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Steel path should never become something that's meant for the majority. It doesn't need to be "popular". It's main purpose should be to give those that want a challenge a space to do so with optimized gear. 

It shouldn't become a place where players feel they NEED to go in order to take part in Warframe. SP sortie should only rewards SE. 

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8 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Steel path should never become something that's meant for the majority. It doesn't need to be "popular". It's main purpose should be to give those that want a challenge a space to do so with optimized gear. 

It shouldn't become a place where players feel they NEED to go in order to take part in Warframe. SP sortie should only rewards SE. 

Out of curiosity, what does your specific optimized gear look like?

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59 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

What is the point that is being missed?  I don't want to assume and don't want to put words in your mouth.

Personally, I do feel like unequipping mods is a great solution for players that are looking for more difficulty.  I am unsure if anyone else is in the same boat, but I did find the Grendel missions to be a challenge, in that I actually felt the need to tailor my squad setup to the mission at hand, rather than just going into the mission with whatever Warframes and weapons I had because it just doesn't matter.  And if the Grendel missions wouldn't have made you sweat, there are plenty of higher-level missions to try with the same approach, including the existing Steel Path.

And one of the biggest benefits of removing mods for difficulty is that the devs don't have to do any further work for you to have it, and the game's meta isn't going to be disrupted because of it.

We did not farm endo mods credits then upgraded our mods to finally forma our junk and shove in all mods we can into it just to unequip them

You miss the point
SP and NO MODS missions are 2 different things

But its kinda same thing like i log in to throw some hikou at enemies while others login to make plat
We all have different definition of joy in this game

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8 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

We did not farm endo mods credits then upgraded our mods to finally forma our junk and shove in all mods we can into it just to unequip them

🤔 Why did you do all of that, then?

I have my own ideas of why I’d do it (honestly, I’m not sure I would), but I’d love some insight into your goals

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vor einer Stunde schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

What is the point that is being missed?  I don't want to assume and don't want to put words in your mouth.

Personally, I do feel like unequipping mods is a great solution for players that are looking for more difficulty.  I am unsure if anyone else is in the same boat, but I did find the Grendel missions to be a challenge, in that I actually felt the need to tailor my squad setup to the mission at hand, rather than just going into the mission with whatever Warframes and weapons I had because it just doesn't matter.  And if the Grendel missions wouldn't have made you sweat, there are plenty of higher-level missions to try with the same approach, including the existing Steel Path.

And one of the biggest benefits of removing mods for difficulty is that the devs don't have to do any further work for you to have it, and the game's meta isn't going to be disrupted because of it.

I agree that's the easiest solution to make a challenge, but it also remove the player options for a prefered playstile. As an example this is my excalibur Umbra build and his exalted blade. If I remeber it corretly I combined the increased melee range with the gladitor mods on helios to increase his crit. chance, while using his third ability for increased damage. Without this mods I will very likely only suceed if I spam his second ability, while using stealth-attacks.

The complaints about the grendel missions are also mostly about the problem that it removes the player mods and on this way the playstile and not because it's to hard. The only reason why this mission can be called hard is that it's for most people a complete change to change from their preferd playstile to a "spam revenants first ability while extracting energy with the kuva staff".

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

What is the point that is being missed?  I don't want to assume and don't want to put words in your mouth.

Personally, I do feel like unequipping mods is a great solution for players that are looking for more difficulty.  I am unsure if anyone else is in the same boat, but I did find the Grendel missions to be a challenge, in that I actually felt the need to tailor my squad setup to the mission at hand, rather than just going into the mission with whatever Warframes and weapons I had because it just doesn't matter.  And if the Grendel missions wouldn't have made you sweat, there are plenty of higher-level missions to try with the same approach, including the existing Steel Path.

And one of the biggest benefits of removing mods for difficulty is that the devs don't have to do any further work for you to have it, and the game's meta isn't going to be disrupted because of it.

High-five!

I sometimes remove a few of my mods (sometimes all if I’m feeling a little lazy), and sometimes have a bunch of Exilus mods. Sometimes I equip my best for the higher-level stuff, but I’ve still got a lot of rewards to get throughout the game so I tailor my build to the fight (It’s easier to play around with different loadouts the lower I go since I can replace all those survival and damage mods with other things, as I don’t actually need them and am looking to barely scrape by instead of falling asleep)

edit: Oh yeah, and Extinguished, Decaying, and Bleeding Dragon Keys are great!

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1 hour ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Yea why should players be able to both use the effort they have put in to fight more dangerous mobs etc. AND get improved rewards!? Inconceivable! 

I'm disappointed by this bath faith reply.  I actually gave some good answers to the question you are disingenuously asking in my post.  And I never advocated for players not being able to do the above; I simply proposed one possible solution to OP's problem and the benefits to it.

16 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

You miss the point

Please don't tell me that I miss the point when I went out of my way to not assume what the point was and literally asked you to clarify what it was.  I'm giving you an olive branch in good faith and you're slapping it out of my hand.  That said, from your follow-up post I take it that you want to use the mods, etc, that you spent so much time building up, which makes enough sense, so thank you for clarifying.

That said, you're just unlikely to get something like a hardcore Sortie because Warframe is a game that aims to provide a power fantasy which needs to be accessible to a wide audience of players.  This may not be the way you prefer to engage with the game, but that's it's current design, and there are financial consequences to changing that design.  If an unskilled player with a high-end loadout can't dominate all battlefields, that would be a significant disruption to the design of Warframe.

And as Hypernaut so perfectly summarizes, we've been down this path before, and we know that it is a never-ending spiral:

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Then come all the players that demand extra rewards for SP sortie. Then SP sortie becomes the go to sortie. Then people complain that their lazy loadouts aren't strong enough and cry for buffs. Then SP sortie becomes just as trivial as regular sortie today. Then comes players asking for more difficulty. 

To be clear, I sympathize with what you're asking for, as it's a legitimate request, but this is something that Warframe has never been able to deliver, and there are good reasons why Warframe probably won't ever deliver this in the future.  I genuinely hope I'm wrong, and I encourage DE to give hardcore players the content that will satisfy their desire for challenge.  However, I just don't think that will realistically happen for the reasons stated above.

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11 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I'm disappointed by this bath faith reply.  I actually gave some good answers to the question you are disingenuously asking in my post.  And I never advocated for players not being able to do the above; I simply proposed one possible solution to OP's problem and the benefits to it.

Please don't tell me that I miss the point when I went out of my way to not assume what the point was and literally asked you to clarify what it was.  I'm giving you an olive branch in good faith and you're slapping it out of my hand.  That said, from your follow-up post I take it that you want to use the mods, etc, that you spent so much time building up, which makes enough sense, so thank you for clarifying.

That said, you're just unlikely to get something like a hardcore Sortie because Warframe is a game that aims to provide a power fantasy which needs to be accessible to a wide audience of players.  This may not be the way you prefer to engage with the game, but that's it's current design, and there are financial consequences to changing that design.  If an unskilled player with a high-end loadout can't dominate all battlefields, that would be a significant disruption to the design of Warframe.

And as Hypernaut so perfectly summarizes, we've been down this path before, and we know that it is a never-ending spiral:

To be clear, I sympathize with what you're asking for, as it's a legitimate request, but this is something that Warframe has never been able to deliver, and there are good reasons why Warframe probably won't ever deliver this in the future.  I genuinely hope I'm wrong, and I encourage DE to give hardcore players the content that will satisfy their desire for challenge.  However, I just don't think that will realistically happen for the reasons stated above.

Again you missed the point

Its not about me or you
We are different in what we like

Some want more challenge some want more rewards some dont care and want SP slapped to everything possible

And it was not request idea i literally asked in 1st line that i hope im not alone in this feeling that SP sortie option should exist 


 

 

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55 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

🤔 Why did you do all of that, then?

I have my own ideas of why I’d do it (honestly, I’m not sure I would), but I’d love some insight into your goals

To have different experience with what i grind so far

Its like after you get mods to extend duration and lower energy cost of abilities u want harder enemies and not lowering stats u just upgraded with mods
Isnt it why we grind in every game? To become stronger and be able to face harder enemies?

 

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31 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I'm disappointed by this bath faith reply.  I actually gave some good answers to the question you are disingenuously asking in my post.  And I never advocated for players not being able to do the above; I simply proposed one possible solution to OP's problem and the benefits to it.

how is my answer in bad faith? Disagreeing with you does not make my response disingenuous. 

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58 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

To have different experience with what i grind so far

Its like after you get mods to extend duration and lower energy cost of abilities u want harder enemies and not lowering stats u just upgraded with mods
Isnt it why we grind in every game? To become stronger and be able to face harder enemies?

 

Thanks for the insight into your thinking 👍.

I get that increased options are great. That’s part of why I like Warframe.

But it feels like a lot of the talk around difficulty involves being so damaging that huge swaths of enemies get deleted instantly, and so tough that nothing can kill us.

We only have a limited number of mod slots and arcanes (or whatever); how many of them are dedicated to being demigods of health and damage? And if some of those mods were replaced with options that, say, reduced Aimglide Gravity by 100%, or increased the doublejump by 200%, or even if it was aaaalll range or duration or efficiency, would more gameplay styles open up? If we’re trivializing content, can our power be scaled back until we’re just able to make it through and make room for alternative ways to play?

Are there any mods you sniff at because they don’t kill faster? Could try some of those instead

edit: To answer your questions about “Why do we want to get more powerful”, personally I’ve actually failed to find a great reason.

We fight the tough guys to get tougher to fight tougher guys to get even tougher? until what? we’re the toughest there is and nothing can stand against us?

Is there some sort of validation for getting so tough? Are we ourselves going to look back at the time spent in a game and go “Yeah, grinding so hard was absolutely worth it”

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39 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Again you missed the point

Its not about me or you
We are different in what we like

In this case I think you're missing my point, because I'm not saying it's about me or you, and my post openly engaged with the idea that different people like different things.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Thanks for the insight into your thinking 👍.

I get that increased options are great. That’s part of why I like Warframe.

But it feels like a lot of the talk around difficulty involves being so damaging that huge swaths of enemies get deleted instantly, and so tough that nothing can kill us.

We only have a limited number of mod slots and arcanes (or whatever); how many of them are dedicated to being demigods of health and damage? And if some of those mods were replaced with options that, say, reduced Aimglide Gravity by 100%, or increased the doublejump by 200%, or even if it was aaaalll range or duration or efficiency, would more gameplay styles open up? If we’re trivializing content, can our power be scaled back until we’re just able to make it through and make room for alternative ways to play?

Are there any mods you sniff at because they don’t kill faster? Could try some of those instead

edit: To answer your questions about “Why do we want to get more powerful”, personally I’ve actually failed to find a great reason.

We fight the tough guys to get tougher to fight tougher guys to get even tougher? until what? we’re the toughest there is and nothing can stand against us?

Is there some sort of validation for getting so tough? Are we ourselves going to look back at the time spent in a game and go “Yeah, grinding so hard was absolutely worth it”

Im here because i feel like we could have something we can do ourselves
Im here to ask am i alone in feeling that existing system should be expanded on sortie NOT forced on anyone but an OPTION for ppl that feel are fighting glass enemies on sortie

Limit yourself not other ppl thats key thing here giving ideas how someone could make his experience harder wont help any1 since we all can do it
Im not here to insult you so dont take it offensive
What you proposed is like i come here and how to get plat and you reply with go ask higher ranked players for free plat
Yeah it could work i gave like 10k plat already in total to random ppl but neither its a solution to a problem nor its answer to that question

 

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

In this case I think you're missing my point, because I'm not saying it's about me or you, and my post openly engaged with the idea that different people like different things.

No
You see thats the point about who ever it is that should not matter
Only thing that matters for me does ppl have same feeling it could exist and seems they do

I dont care what you describe as challenge you should not care what i describe as challenge
Some ppl do spy missions with loki other with ash ivara limbo and some with wukong and there are others who do it with inaros
We should not care
Mission was completed? Fun was achieved? Nothing to talk about

Im not attacking you here we all should have fun in any way possible but thats not the point

The point is OPTION

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14 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

No
You see thats the point about who ever it is that should not matter
Only thing that matters for me does ppl have same feeling it could exist and seems they do

I dont care what you describe as challenge you should not care what i describe as challenge
Some ppl do spy missions with loki other with ash ivara limbo and some with wukong and there are others who do it with inaros
We should not care
Mission was completed? Fun was achieved? Nothing to talk about

Im not attacking you here we all should have fun in any way possible but thats not the point

The point is OPTION

I understand that you are asking if other people feel the that you should have the option to do Steel Path Sorties.  I have reasons for not thinking you should have the option to do that, because if people have the option to do that, even if it is not "forced" on people, it alters the meta and sets off a chain reaction of events as Hypernaut1 described.

If you're only interested in feelings, that's fine.  But I think it's silly to dismiss what I'm saying just because in addition to the feelings part of it, I'm also taking into consideration the logistical realities and ramifications.  That's why in some cultures the phrase "May you get everything you wish for" is considered a curse; it's because desire is often short-sighted, and should be tempered with reason.

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I understand that you are asking if other people feel the that you should have the option to do Steel Path Sorties.  I have reasons for not thinking you should have the option to do that, because if people have the option to do that, even if it is not "forced" on people, it alters the meta and sets off a chain reaction of events as Hypernaut1 described.

If you're only interested in feelings, that's fine.  But I think it's silly to dismiss what I'm saying just because in addition to the feelings part of it, I'm also taking into consideration the logistical realities and ramifications.  That's why in some cultures the phrase "May you get everything you wish for" is considered a curse; it's because desire is often short-sighted, and should be tempered with reason.

Its not like i dismiss all you say
Look at it like animal capture for me it could not exist you on other hand maybe love it
But you have option to do it while i dont need it at all

OPTION keyword here
 

14 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Steel Path is already level 110, I don't see what that would accomplish

Then u would not understand even if you get explanation

 

13 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Ambulas SP with armour enhancement... And then you drop a wolf beacon in the middle of the mission to add more fun!

 I dont see any trouble there you would have any?

Anyway you are talking about 1 specific mission while idea is about sortie as a whole
I cant believe ppl have problem understanding such a simple difference

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18 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Steel Path is already level 110, I don't see what that would accomplish

Even with modifiers, the hardest sortie mission is almost easier than the lowest SP mission. 

Our power level has increased greatly. Especially since enemy scaling was nerfed a while ago.

It's really just about bringing sortie difficulty up to par with steel path, which was what sortie felt like when it was first released. 

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I am fine with regular sorties. They don't really give me anything exciting, but they do take time to do. I bet if people get a steel path version they will say it takes way too long and needs to be way more rewarding and that is just even more work.

edit: not wearing my glasses. many mistakes.

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6 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

You seem to be trying to make fun of the people who pointed out that there was no reason to play on SP after you cleared it and the Teshin shop once when SP was announced and said it would become a low activity area in the game.

Turns out though everyone who pointed it out was indeed right. SP was pretty dead two months after release up until SE (for Kuva) farms and later rotating Teshin rewards became a thing. The reality is players go where the rewards are. Anyone who observes the game and the popular activities objectively sees that. Just because that doesn't apply to someone's personal approach it's not less correct. Time, not only in general, but quite literally can be money in this game.

Which leads to the obvious result: if SP sorties wouldn't have additional rewards (SE, I'd guess) the activity would be probably low. Would DE invest time into SP sorties without extra rewards if it was likely to be on life support levels of activity after a few days?

Personally, I don't play regular sorties often anymore. Anasa sculptures are magically attracted to me apparently. I usually only do them if they are short. No idea if i even would play SP sorties with extra SE in it to be honest.

Anyways, I never get this fun vs rewards argument. If someone plays for the sole purpose of the joy of slapping some Grineer around and would do that for no rewards at all that person wouldn't care about the reward structure at all and only about the activity in their favorite fun modes and other factors maybe like balance and mechanics. As such a player someone would pretty much either be not affected at all or they would benefit from rewards pulling in more players. 

I think you have not been lurking around the forums long enough to know exactly whose group I'm memeing.

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