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A relatively small Banshee rework idea, less shortly described


Perfectly_Framed_Waifu

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I laid out the basics of this rework idea in another thread recently and got some positive feedback, so I thought I'd post it as its own topic to give it some more visibility. In short, the aim of this Banshee rework is to (1) marry together her two sound themes - stealthy silence and destructive loudness, and (2) give her some survivability tool beyond knockdowns and brief stuns.

Passive
In addition to the current silenced weapons, Banshee has slightly reduced threat level, making enemies more likely to attack nearby allies instead.

(Thematically, the silence helps Banshee to not grab as much attention. Gameplay-wise, it's a small, inconsistent buff to her survivability.)

1: Sonic Boom
Changed to a Tap/Hold ability. Tap to cast Sonic Boom as it currently works, though with its base damage increased to 300. Hold to cast a narrow, long range (like 30-50m) shockwave that stuns affected enemies for 5 seconds on hit. The Hold cast deals no damage and does not alert enemies. Enemies hit by either cast have their armor reduced by 70% for 8 seconds.

(This gives the ability more usage for stealth gameplay, allowing Banshee to set up for headshots outside her Silence range, as well as giving her a stun against enemies already inside her Silence area. The armor reduction from the augment is added to the base ability to give it more usage in higher levels.)

Synergy: Casting the ragdoll version of Sonic Boom while Silence is active will give it enough knockback force to push enemies out of Silence's radius, allowing for re-stun. Should an enemy not be knocked out of it, they take an additional 700 damage (modified by Strength) plus a percentage of their max health (not modified by Strength) due to (most likely) colliding with terrain.

Changed Augment - Energized Boom: Enemies affected by Sonic Boom restore 10 energy on headshot kills, and kills to areas highlighted by Sonar Quake. (Modified by Strength.)

2: Silence
Now Banshee's 2nd ability, with its energy cost lowered to 50. Other than that, no change to the ability (besides possibly allowing players to cancel it).

3: New ability - Sound Wall (See Sonar Quake below before you ask about Sonar.)
Costs 75 energy. Creates a disrupting barrier for 3 seconds that blocks incoming projectiles and gunfire (but not melee attacks), using their kinetic energy to recharge Banshee's shield. Drains energy once max overshields has been reached. Can be prematurely cancelled.

(Unsure about the exact balance, but it's meant to be a short-lived, expensive "oh sh*t" ability that lets shield gating be her last line of defense, albeit a costly one when overused or not used carefully.)

New augment - Amplifying Wall (replaces Sonar's Resonance): While Sound Wall is active, Banshee has +75% Ability Strength and -40% Ability Efficiency, and an additional +75%/-40% if her Overshields are full.

(Incentivizes high risk, high reward decisions that may leave Banshee without energy for future Sound Walls.)

4: Sonar Quake
The combination of her current Sonar and Sound Quake that you never knew you always wanted, with their respective augments included! Tap to cast a non-damaging wave that doesn't alert enemies. Hold to charge it up with damage (compare to the mechanics of Hydroid's 4), max 3000 damage (modified by Strength). Enemies hit by the wave, regardless of damage charged, are marked Sonar-style. Killing enemies with hits to the marked spots releases new waves which, if the initial cast was charged, alerts and damages enemies by the same amount.

(As Sonar often feels like Banshee's actual ultimate ability, this combination aims to make it a true one, while also making it more interactive and less stationary. While the damage would still fall off at higher levels, it would still help soften enemies up and finish off weaker ones. Note: These new waves can not be triggered more often than once ever 5 seconds, matching the current Resonance mod.)

Changed Augment - Resonating Quake: Enemies affected by Sonar Quake explode on death, dealing 25% of the charged damage (modified by Strength) plus 40% of the enemy's max Health (not modified by Strength) in a 15m radius (modified by Range). Any cause of death can trigger these explosions, even the explosions themselves, allowing for chain reactions.

(Compare to the Sobek augment Acid Shells. In combination with the armor reduction of Banshee's 1, the percent-based damage and lack of explosion cooldown should allow this augmented ability's damage portion to scale in the end game, letting the ability be more than a damage boost there.)

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Nice to see this idea fully fleshed out. Still a little uncertain about the change to sonar even though its good and sound the change makes me mildly uncomfortable because im old now LOL.

 

Sound wall seems weird to me but i got nothing of my own to suggest in its place >_>

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Ok you know what changes i would make? I would have it so that all of banshees damage abilities affects flying enemies such as ospreys and all their infested counterparts. I cant begin to count the number of times i have died while sound quaking because the flying enemies are immune to the damage and stun/stagger.

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22 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

Sound wall seems weird to me but i got nothing of my own to suggest in its place >_>

Haha, you're in kind of the same boat as me, then! I like the name Sound Wall and want to give her a defensive tool of sorts, but I don't want to give her straight damage reduction, armor, invisibility, or anything like that (and evasion is too unreliable). This is my best idea thus far. If anyone has another idea for a defense to fall back on, I'm all ears ^^

21 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

Ok you know what changes i would make? I would have it so that all of banshees damage abilities affects flying enemies

All my yes. With the latest tilesets, the game has gotten a lot more vertical. Spherical AoEs are very much needed.

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Oh, and a quick rework note to make use of this duplicate comment:

1: Sonic Boom
One-handed casting, so it can be used on the move.

2: Silence
Upper body animation, same reason as above.

3: New ability - Sound Wall
Either upper or full body animation, either works since it's a defense where you wanna get shot for a while.

4: Sonar Quake
Full body animation works for this one - makes it feel hefty.

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Is Sound Quake still able to hit weak points? If it is, it would be too strong, considering how you have a high base damage amount, combined with the Sonar boost, multiplying for every enemy killed. Throw in the Resonating Quake augment (which itself is somewhat concerning) and Banshee would be the most powerful nuking frame in most content, if not all content.

Other than that, I like the Sonic Boom changes, Silence could use some love, and Sound Wall is too strange for me to comment on.

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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Is Sound Quake still able to hit weak points?

First off, thanks for your feedback! Yeah, that's a question I hadn't thought about. I kinda based it off the damage from the augmented Sound Quake, though I can't say I have done any in-depth research on whether or not it can currently hit and benefit from Sonar. I guess that'd be a balance question for testing.

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Throw in the Resonating Quake augment (which itself is somewhat concerning) and Banshee would be the most powerful nuking frame in most content, if not all content.

The Sobek augment Acid Shells deals 450 damage +45% enemy max health in a 15m radius. The effect of this augment would be similar, though with the flat damage and radius being modified by ability mods. The flat damage would quickly drop off at higher levels, like Acid Shells' does, leaving only a version with potentially more coverage, which I think is fair for a Warframe mod.

According to the wiki and limited testing of my own, the percentage damage of Acid Shells can be boosted directly by stuff like Rhino's Roar and Bane mods, as well as indirectly not only by Sonar but by stuff like Spores and Seeking Talons. (The Seeking Talons DoT, as well as Toxic Lash's augment, can also trigger Sobek explosions on their own, as can the Toxic Lash DoT, if I recall correctly.)

Considering this, this reworked augment would most likely not be stronger than what the right frame wielding a Sobek could already accomplish, not even if the explosion benefitted from Sonar, seeing as the Sobek explosion already does just that. And again, I'm far from adamant about this reworked Sonar Quake needing to benefit from its own damage multiplier.

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4 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Passive
In addition to the current silenced weapons, Banshee has slightly reduced threat level, making enemies more likely to attack nearby allies instead.

Not crazy about this, if only from the standpoint that reducing Banshee's threat level effectively increases the threat level of squadmates.  Most passives are selfish, but this one is actually sociopathic.  😄

 

4 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

1: Sonic Boom
Changed to a Tap/Hold ability.

I like this a great deal.  My only concern is that baking in the armor strip and adding a stun / stealth damage multiplier option makes it extremely strong for a 1.  OTOH, looking at some of the newer first abilities, maybe my perspective is a little outdated. 😉  Since your main desire with the held option seems to be CC and setting up headshots maybe it should just be a lockdown, a la Condemn.

The idea for a new augment is a fun one, although it would need a cooldown. 

4 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

3: New ability - Sound Wall

This could be very cool.  Is this a shield, a sphere,  or just a personal "absorbs ranged weapon fire" effect?

4 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

4: Sonar Quake
The combination of her current Sonar and Sound Quake that you never knew you always wanted, with their respective augments included!

Very elegant mash-up. 

It's easy to imagine  this or any of the new abilities being unbalanced.  But the concepts are what's important, and those I like.

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12 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

though I can't say I have done any in-depth research on whether or not it can currently hit and benefit from Sonar.

SQ can hit weak spots on torsos, though I couldn't be more precise than that.

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4 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Most passives are selfish, but this one is actually sociopathic.  😄

I will not comment on that 🤣

5 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

My only concern is that baking in the armor strip and adding a stun / stealth damage multiplier option makes it extremely strong for a 1.  (...)  Since your main desire with the held option seems to be CC and setting up headshots maybe it should just be a lockdown, a la Condemn.

Hmm, yeah the armor reduction might need to be lowered, requiring you to run more Strength for the same effect. Some testing would be needed for that, I image. I just left it at 70% since Nyx's Psychic Bolts have 80%, so it seemed fair. Didn't take the stealth multi into consideration though. Having it be a Condemn-style lockdown would definitely be neater gameplay-wise, but I think I'd prefer it to be a stun for thematic reasons. Glad you liked it, though! As for the augment, yeah, I could see that either a cooldown or splitting the energy between targets would be needed.

10 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Is this a shield, a sphere,  or just a personal "absorbs ranged weapon fire" effect?

I imagine the Sound Wall to be similar to Zephyr's Turbulence bubble, though not affected by Range. One's sound waves, the other's wind, and neither block melee attacks. (And yeah, this is also a short-lived defense compared to Zephyr's.)

13 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Very elegant mash-up. 

It's easy to imagine  this or any of the new abilities being unbalanced.  But the concepts are what's important, and those I like.

Thank you! Yeah, the exact numbers can always be changed (as well as what does or doesn't benefit from Sonar's boost), but the functionality is the most important bit ^^

12 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

SQ can hit weak spots on torsos, though I couldn't be more precise than that.

Huh, today I learned. Had it been more consistent with the number of Sonar weakpoints, regardless of location, I imagine that Quake would possibly see more end game usage.

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15 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Huh, today I learned. Had it been more consistent with the number of Sonar weakpoints, regardless of location, I imagine that Quake would possibly see more end game usage.

Yeah, it's the only way I've figured out to get any use out of it above level 50 or so.  But it's far less demanding to just use  AoE weapons on the weak spots and skip SQ.

Sonic Boom has the same behavior with weak spots  too by the way.  Although the base damage is so sad the point is even more academic than SQ. 

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