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Yeah I'm taking a big ol' brake now. Probably until the New War. The game became really unfun lately for me. Railjack was fun but years old bugs really piss me off. 

Seriously when will De finally fix the god damn spawn rates in open world missions. Ffs it's been an issue for years. Ever since Poe came out, pretty much.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All I can say is I feel pretty much the same. RJ, SP and Deimos have been nice additions going in the right direction. Though RJ is a bit on the "easy" side of things and dont really bring me much replay value as it is now. Buuuut, I hope that them fancy ladies and hopefully the OG liches will spice up RJ and give me an itch to go back there. Deimos was also on the easy side, but it brought me several hours of enjoyment non the less as a vet.

The main issue for DE when it comes to challenging vets is that the game isnt really well balanced. But the game is one important thing though... fun!

I think a test cluster, with a focus on logical nerfs and optimal balancing ideas should be attempted. For me, that includes:

1) Saying goodbye to condition overload, weeping wounds, blood rush and every "convert to slash" mods. Instead, CO, WW and BR would integrate into a universal combo system that both guns and melee share but have much lower values. 

2) Remove slash's DoT and convert it into an "infection" proc that increases the duration of status procs.

3) IPS procs would now, along with their current procs (and slash's new version) progressively reduce the overall health of whatever enemy is weak against them by 5% per proc, with a 50% max. 

4) Limit attack speed increases to only one mod. Max attack speed values capped at 50%, ignoring overage values from arcanes.

5) Increase enemy health, shield and armor values by 50% in both Steel Path and standard game, increase enemy speed by 10% but either maintain or decrease enemy damage output by 20%. This is to help keep the power fantasy, add a bit more time and value to each kill, increase the pacing and take advantage of the new combo system.

6) Increase enemy presence, per tileset, by 25%. 

7) Add a "captain" to every exterminate and survival mission, similar to Railjack Grineer exterminate missions. Captain levels are minimum +10 in standard game and +50 in Steel Path and with inherent 25% damage reduction and immunity to speed altering and stagger abilities. (Yes, more bullet spongy...as a boss should be).

8) min-max values capped at -30% and +200%, including arcanes. This wouldn't matter much to anyone except endurance players, who also usually are the ones requesting more challenge. 

9) A 20% reduction to Railjack homing missle strength. Currently way to OP.

10) Feature a visible shield/armor link from Railjack to archwings, increasing their survivability at the expense of a 10% overall health and shield reduction per used archwing. Link distance and attributes can be modded and have mods even capable of dual benefitting both the RJ and archwings, adding variety. 

11 and final) My Railjack dream: Dog fight version of survival or exterminate missions but only available in void storms. These would be awesome and fast relic cracking modes that can compete with regular relic missions as well as keep a multiplayer crew engaged. 

Anyway, that's my vision.

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On 2021-05-24 at 10:02 PM, Alpha_Tango said:

As long as WF have pay to skip grind in platinum, nothing is so hard to get back in to even after a long hiatus from it.

The game is in limbo being milked by DE to the point that I don't see the story nor the game progressing into something more engaging ergo the boredom.

For The OP, I got World of Tanks whenever I need my experience in the game put to the test against another person as well as Final fantasy XIV Online where roles and real coordination in a group matter. Personally, neither of those needs are met playing WF where the grind is the only challenge there is.  

Oh yes, because restricting people in what they can play is truly "fun" not to mention the f.u. to solo'ers that don't want to coordinate with anyone. FFXIV is also littered with fetch quests and grind of its own as per RPG standards.

On 2021-05-24 at 10:26 PM, Joezone619 said:

It isn't hard to see where this game started going downhill. Sure its been up and down when fortuna released and kuva lichs but when railjack release wow was that ever false advertising or what. Then they waited over a year doing little to nothing to railjack, promised railjack 2.0 would be like they showed in tennocon 2018/2019, and delivered a complete failure of an update, that players screamed at them not to implement due to certain systems like linking railjack and warframe energy, the plexus, grineer maps having no work done on them whatsoever, the list goes on.

then there are all the updates inbetween railjack, deadlock protocol, steel path, deimos, orphix venom, i don't know about anyone else, but based on the past 3 years, i don't see anything new to do other then maybe steel path. I can say with 100% confidence, i am not looking forward to the upcoming tenncon if they're just going to ignore and ghost their players and completely abandon updates a week after they release them, never touching it again.

The 2.0 to Railjack was a legit turnaround, so you're only speaking for your own self on that one. It was also a mix of revision and expansion mixed in one, which means some things likely got set aside to make room. Could it be further improved? Definitely. However its not remotely the disappointment you're trying to paint it as, just because you have issues with it.

Guess what: even old school WF didn't do anything hugely new till TSD, though your definition of new is flawed from the outset. The definition you're working off of is seemingly "challenge" or something like that, instead of things that are actually new like RJ. I liked Orphix Venom, I loved Deadlock Protocol, I liked Deimos, and I love Railjack. All of those along with Liches and Scarlet Spear = new at the time. Though what you're trying to do is what anyone wanting to talk down about anything goes to in trying to generalize what it does; failing to realize that if one takes that logic to anything it fails. If anything Warframe is guilty of trying too many new things at the same time, its just things YOU clearly don't care about. Try waiting 2+ years for new content only for it to partially arrive and basically ending up being a casino, like my experience in a long ago MMO, before whining about content just not appealing to YOU.

On 2021-05-24 at 10:33 PM, -AncientWarrior- said:

I agree with OP DE has hit the wall with its cycle of Warframe, but only for players who have put the time and effort in.  A majority of players with say over a thousand hours in WF are starting to realise warframe is stagnating .. its just going around in circles with same same being released over and over.. but really thats warframe in a nutshell now.. a lot of the content could have been great but werent, and they havent bother to push the boundries because they are focused on new/casual to mid level players and then once these players reach the "I done everything" levels DE dont have anything for them to go into.  Everything in WF now is accessible really early on.. there is no effort required to get into SP or RJ or whatever is next .. players can taxi into anywhere.  What DE should have done is made a new Star System where you needed to be say MR 25 or above to access (no taxis).. this should have new enemies, items, pets, ships, rewards etc etc .. this would give players a task and goals to achieve .. but thats just my humble opinion as I head back to farming Kuva .. 

I stand at 2253 hours ingame, been with the game for close to about 8 years though maybe in the 7.5 territory, and am perfectly fine in my playing the game. Mostly because I learned this wondrous thing called pacing, instead of obsessively rushing through everything offered. Also that concept of WF may fit the old version of the game, but not the current version where new things are being introduced. Either you have a wrong vision of the past or just don't care about reality so long as it concerns your point.

Also "no effort to get into RJ", yeah I have an expletive in mind for you on that; considering until the revision and AI crew I was basically locked out of it. Partly because I refuse to ever party up with randos and partly because the system was originally setup for squads, instead of solo. Even now while I've found my footing thanks to the revision and my AI crew there's still some amount of effort put into it. Though congrats on sounding like a head up somewhere tryhard trivializing anything and everything that doesn't punish you (but does others).

While I'm all for a new star system, no it shouldn't be locked behind something like MR or even behind some "challenge wall". That forces those just wanting to enjoy the universe and lore to step into tryhard territory, which should NOT be a thing. Anything added in that vein should be side-content to appease tryhards, while sparing everyone else from the b.s. of it. Dark Souls, Nioh, etc exist if you want that kind of b.s.

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6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All I can say is I feel pretty much the same. RJ, SP and Deimos have been nice additions going in the right direction. Though RJ is a bit on the "easy" side of things and dont really bring me much replay value as it is now. Buuuut, I hope that them fancy ladies and hopefully the OG liches will spice up RJ and give me an itch to go back there. Deimos was also on the easy side, but it brought me several hours of enjoyment non the less as a vet.

The main issue for DE when it comes to challenging vets is that the game isnt really well balanced. But the game is one important thing though... fun!

I'd say RJ being "easy" is for a select group of people not a general statement, since until the revision I couldn't even step a toe into it. Now with the additions to it its become easier, but still can be challenging. So this basically comes across as the usual case of someone with maxed out mods, etc completely ignoring anyone else's experience in the game and how any changes would affect them. For you an increase is nothing, for a solo'er (refusing to ever party with randos) non-maxed out mods type like myself that could mean being locked out of content unless falling into tryhard status; which I'd refuse to do on principle.

The main issues I see are:

- No one has a clear concept of what they want. Even the concept of "challenge" is a bag of versions (many of which shut anyone not a tryhard out). For me I'd want to see things in the vein of Jackal, where you have to weaken bosses to points and interact with them to open a weak spot. Like taking shots at Sargas Ruk to the point of being able to rush him and interact to pull off his armor, then take shots at the opened weak spot and repeat the process till "hp blocks" (similar to Protea fight) is depleted. I don't need or want enemies or bosses to shove my face into the ground

- Anything that were to be come up with will be trivialized within a week by tryhards, then they'll go right back to whining

- People aren't willing to take hits to their "nuke" or "god" builds via restrictions on abilities or mods (in the vein of Grendel missions)

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2 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

I'd say RJ being "easy" is for a select group of people not a general statement, since until the revision I couldn't even step a toe into it. Now with the additions to it its become easier, but still can be challenging. So this basically comes across as the usual case of someone with maxed out mods, etc completely ignoring anyone else's experience in the game and how any changes would affect them. For you an increase is nothing, for a solo'er (refusing to ever party with randos) non-maxed out mods type like myself that could mean being locked out of content unless falling into tryhard status; which I'd refuse to do on principle.

RJ might be "easy" if you have some "levels" in it (I don't have it). Like someone said, with archwing you can level up on low levels and you have some gear to build (e.g. clan's). With railjack it's not that easy. RJ doesn't even have something to build if you haven't finished a mission.

If they give me at least 1 crew without finishing any mission then I may understand RJ.

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4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Saying goodbye to condition overload, weeping wounds, blood rush and every "convert to slash" mods.

I agree with this.

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Instead, CO, WW and BR would integrate into a universal combo system that both guns and melee share but have much lower values. 

"Oh god no" to this, even if it were reduced in value the combo system and related mods are responsible for 90% of the reason why things scale to broken degrees.

We need to stop with the insane multipliers entirely imo, for enemies and players both.

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Since DE refuses to work on pvp/competitive content, which is the only true endlessly repeatable content there is in Warframe, I'm ready for Warframe 2. Fresh start. Keep nothing. New foundations, overhauled damage and modding systems.

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35 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I agree with this.

"Oh god no" to this, even if it were reduced in value the combo system and related mods are responsible for 90% of the reason why things scale to broken degrees.

We need to stop with the insane multipliers entirely imo, for enemies and players both.

I like the incentive of them but I agree that the scaling issue is deep. My hope was by eliminating what slash and viral currently do to scaling, we can create a happy medium with combos, especially when integrating guns to it. Keep the combo kill fest but just make it harder to build, less threatening in damage but more rewarding to maintain.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-05-25 at 3:20 AM, Gwyndolin-chan said:

i want a roguelike mode that will give me a basic starting loadout, randomized assortment of missions, content, and modifiers every time i enter that mode.

like sorties, but procedurally generated every time. (I can only do the daily sortie once for one unique chain of missions. I want to be able to do an arbitrary number of unique chains per day.)

I've been thinking quite seriously about this. My idea might be different from yours, but yes, rougelike.

Back when I started playing WF it was a much slower game, so the random assortment of the tiles made every mission feel slightly different. Now the tiles are just a blur in the background as we fly past the enemy to the goal. Rougelike mode could not only bring new life into the old, but make the game feel fresh. You could play the same missions again, but with modifiers and outcomes it wouldn't be quite like running the same Extermination node for the 100th time.

 

Make a randomly generated map with nodes, a modular boss in the end (modular means many variations, unlike current bosses), beat the boss and the next map has higher levels, and so on. It's endless but can be in short bites too, you can stop to take a break, and every mission is different instead of spending 3 hours in the same exact Survival mission.

Allow people to unlock modifiers. Like Steel Path? Make a new run with Steel Path modifiers. Like Void Storms/fissures? Select that modifier. Like tankier but not too much? Select +250% Health but not armor/shields. This would allow players to tailor the mode into what they like to do, and DE could do some really good stuff they never do because everything needs to be "new player friendly". If a modifier is too hard for you or requires equipment you don't have, don't pick it then.

Maybe make it so when you die that WF can no longer be used in that run, so owning 1 of each WF becomes meaningful, along with properly selecting WF for the missions in question. Your choices matter.

You beat a mission and now you can craft something new in that mode/run, or the enemy gets a debuff (I wouldn't like player buffs because we already destroy the game anyway). Enemy boss has a weapon you hate dealing with? Maybe that mission halfway through can be a mini boss that allows you to disable one of their weapons.

Hazards could finally have a really good place to live in and be properly used. Missions can have a chance of having hazards. Maybe allow the player to get rewards that allow them to create hazards too. You beat a hijack mission, and it turns out that truck you stole has a missile in it, and that missile can be used on a node to make it a fire hazard where the enemy suffers a 50% armor reduction but the map is littered with fire hazards (you debuff the enemy but it comes with an additional danger to you too).

Crewmates could be expanded to have "Ability-like" gear that fit classic roles and allow them to complement/"compete with" Liches, and for those alone or without a full party the Crewmates could take the empty spots even on ground missions. This would give value in obtaining more than 3 crewmates and would make things like the combat stats relevant rather than just getting maxed Gunnery/repair because they aren't that much useful right now outside of that.

 

A mode like that would keep me playing for so much longer than I do right now, simply because it would make what we have right now so much better and it would feel like a new campaign every time you play, unlike the current system where every node is always the same.

I actually was writing ideas for something like this, so I could post and see if I could get some discussion around it, but lately DE going "Toggle for Gara is too risky because of bugs" really killed my interest in doing so, because when bugs becomes a reason to not work on certain things, then why bother? I still wish for a mode like that, but I don't really see much movement about it either, but it's a shame since DE did mention taking inspiration from FTL for Railjack, too bad the rougelike part was never explored.

Edited by God_is_a_Cat_Girl
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16 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

4) Limit attack speed increases to only one mod. Max attack speed values capped at 50%, ignoring overage values from arcanes.

I'd get behind it all, #4 though would preferably come with melee getting smoother stance animations and baseline speed overall aswell. Because some of the slow weapons just feel slowmo stupid to use, even with a single speed mod.

15 hours ago, CrimsonXX said:

I'd say RJ being "easy" is for a select group of people not a general statement, since until the revision I couldn't even step a toe into it. Now with the additions to it its become easier, but still can be challenging. So this basically comes across as the usual case of someone with maxed out mods, etc completely ignoring anyone else's experience in the game and how any changes would affect them. For you an increase is nothing, for a solo'er (refusing to ever party with randos) non-maxed out mods type like myself that could mean being locked out of content unless falling into tryhard status; which I'd refuse to do on principle.

The main issues I see are:

- No one has a clear concept of what they want. Even the concept of "challenge" is a bag of versions (many of which shut anyone not a tryhard out). For me I'd want to see things in the vein of Jackal, where you have to weaken bosses to points and interact with them to open a weak spot. Like taking shots at Sargas Ruk to the point of being able to rush him and interact to pull off his armor, then take shots at the opened weak spot and repeat the process till "hp blocks" (similar to Protea fight) is depleted. I don't need or want enemies or bosses to shove my face into the ground

- Anything that were to be come up with will be trivialized within a week by tryhards, then they'll go right back to whining

- People aren't willing to take hits to their "nuke" or "god" builds via restrictions on abilities or mods (in the vein of Grendel missions)

No offense but that is alot of S#&$-throwing at someones opinion without really reading what has been said. I never implied that there should be a change that impacts others in the current RJ content. I'm saying DE needs to better adjust their releases so there is progression worthwhile as you progress further. A mistake on their part was releasing Grineer first and then Corpus. If they would have had both at the start there could have been low and mid level grineer and corpus proximas already, with the latest "expansion" introducing higher levels, more challenges and new modes in new proximas, so there was something both for completely fresh captains and those that have everything current.

But with their release method we got low-mid level grineer followed by low-mid level corpus and nothing for those that had already done the grineer proximas and veil except for sevagoth parts.

The main issues I see is that you treat it all as a "them or me" thing and that only one type of solution is valid. Different content releases should cater more to certain parts of the community than others, like it is in most games. Everyone eventually gets something, sometimes it will be stuff on the lower end, other times it will be something for those that have progressed further.

You need to really tone down the whole tryhards thing, you kinda just look silly when repeating it and lose most credibility in your opinions in my eyes. You jump to too many conclussions about other players aswell. You are right though, people arent willing to take hits to their nuke or god builds, but that doesnt reflect on all of us, since there are several who want massive nerfs across the board and would welcome things such as melee getting nerfed down to gun power instead of getting guns buffed. So stop throwing that monkey poop around at people and settle with eating your banana.

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2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

A mistake on their part was releasing Grineer first and then Corpus. If they would have had both at the start there could have been low and mid level grineer and corpus proximas already, with the latest "expansion" introducing higher levels, more challenges and new modes in new proximas, so there was something both for completely fresh captains and those that have everything current.

But with their release method we got low-mid level grineer followed by low-mid level corpus and nothing for those that had already done the grineer proximas and veil except for sevagoth parts.

The original Railjack update was a huge test with scarlet spear being the big dual team experiment. The good news is that their storyboard is already prepared so I look forward to seeing the inclusion of higher leveled stuff. The interesting realization I'm having is that many pub and friends I play with are either intimidated to start Railjack (most think it's too difficult, others saw old youtube vids of content creators complaining about the grind, and some are too scared of the overall size and scope of it...in other words, they can't "rushframe" it). After playing it on my ship, they are much more engaged and ready to try it out...as long as I'm assisting them and not a random freeloader.

With the above player challenges, I understand why DE is more focused on making Railjack easier first then. If the percentage of "average" level players meet a threshold where there are a lot less "taxis" needed, then they can push to the next level. 

On a side note: I agree regarding the attack speed rate of heavy weapons, but, because they are the heavy hitters, I think only a small base attack speed increase is needed with a compensation of added stagger and base strength buffs. I actually like how they handled the heavies. It moves, feels and behaves like every other AAA title heavy weapon and has a really nice risk/reward element to them. Adding a touch more speed of 10%, to match the strength of a warframe, would work wonders. Another option would be to give the heavy Warframes (Rhino, Atlus, Frost, Hildryn Vauban) an inherent 10% attack speed bonus with heavy weapons, similar to Excal's swords.

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6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No offense but that is alot of S#&$-throwing at someones opinion without really reading what has been said. I never implied that there should be a change that impacts others in the current RJ content. I'm saying DE needs to better adjust their releases so there is progression worthwhile as you progress further. A mistake on their part was releasing Grineer first and then Corpus. If they would have had both at the start there could have been low and mid level grineer and corpus proximas already, with the latest "expansion" introducing higher levels, more challenges and new modes in new proximas, so there was something both for completely fresh captains and those that have everything current.

But with their release method we got low-mid level grineer followed by low-mid level corpus and nothing for those that had already done the grineer proximas and veil except for sevagoth parts.

The main issues I see is that you treat it all as a "them or me" thing and that only one type of solution is valid. Different content releases should cater more to certain parts of the community than others, like it is in most games. Everyone eventually gets something, sometimes it will be stuff on the lower end, other times it will be something for those that have progressed further.

You need to really tone down the whole tryhards thing, you kinda just look silly when repeating it and lose most credibility in your opinions in my eyes. You jump to too many conclussions about other players aswell. You are right though, people arent willing to take hits to their nuke or god builds, but that doesnt reflect on all of us, since there are several who want massive nerfs across the board and would welcome things such as melee getting nerfed down to gun power instead of getting guns buffed. So stop throwing that monkey poop around at people and settle with eating your banana.

Wow you'd think my reply was some full-on attack thing, when in reality it literally was a matter of stating how things stand with the most. The problem with that is that things aren't always going to follow schedule and they tend to react to whatever whine-fest is happening in community (for lack of a better term). Though if you'd read more of what I said you'd realize that my main issue with the assertion of RJ being "easy".

And? RJ is still relatively early in its content development. Also I honestly don't give any cares about tryhards or whatever one wants to call them. So if that's the crowd you're trying to say should get content put towards, I'm just going to roll my eyes and sigh. Especially considering those types literally rush through everything and min-max it, then go back to whining about not having anything and "being bored".

I'd say that content releases should fit the vision the team has in order to lead into other things down the line, instead of either being split into multiple different branches or chasing illusions (like "endgame" for an easy example). That's how Warframe was always been done and only changed for the negative when the original "content drought" was whined about, then they seemingly shifted to trying to chase "endgame/difficulty".

And why should I care about losing credibility in your eyes again? Last I checked you're just a rando on a forum. As for the usage of tryhard, if it looks and sounds like tryhard then its a tryhard.

The problem with "massive nerfs" is that there's money involved in some cases where people have maxed out their mods, which you can definitely bet they'll raise hell over anything in that vein (and regardless of what you want to believe or not they're words carry more weight cause its lined with green; not a bash against DE just knowing reality of a business). Not to mention how it wouldn't hugely affect the group that'd most need it except they'd go from dealing millions of damage to hundreds of thousands.

As for the monkey bit, I'll just enjoy my coffee instead of being someone with the thin skin of a Jelllyfish

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, quxier said:

RJ might be "easy" if you have some "levels" in it (I don't have it). Like someone said, with archwing you can level up on low levels and you have some gear to build (e.g. clan's). With railjack it's not that easy. RJ doesn't even have something to build if you haven't finished a mission.

If they give me at least 1 crew without finishing any mission then I may understand RJ.

This is exactly what my situation was and why I think DE should consider some shifting with the initial part of RJ, maybe give people upon completion of the RJ at least enough Intrinsics to open a slot. I had to pretty much get lucky in a single mission to complete it to start opening up Intrinsics, especially the command to open up crew slots. Once that was done it completely shifted and now I love RJ for its (limited) dynamic-ness (going from ship-based extermination -> space -> enemy ship/missile base/etc sabotage -> back space -> back to ship to leave).

Edited by CrimsonXX
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51 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

This is exactly what my situation was and why I think DE should consider some shifting with the initial part of RJ, maybe give people upon completion of the RJ at least enough Intrinsics to open a slot.

Trying to complete first mission was so frustrating that I started gathering Kuva weapons...those mostly boring weapons that requires some grind.

1 hour ago, CrimsonXX said:

Once that was done it completely shifted and now I love RJ for its (limited) dynamic-ness (going from ship-based extermination -> space -> enemy ship/missile base/etc sabotage -> back space -> back to ship to leave).

I prefer one mission type that I can pick gear that I want not random thing like openworld or RJ.

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18 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The original Railjack update was a huge test with scarlet spear being the big dual team experiment. The good news is that their storyboard is already prepared so I look forward to seeing the inclusion of higher leveled stuff. The interesting realization I'm having is that many pub and friends I play with are either intimidated to start Railjack (most think it's too difficult, others saw old youtube vids of content creators complaining about the grind, and some are too scared of the overall size and scope of it...in other words, they can't "rushframe" it). After playing it on my ship, they are much more engaged and ready to try it out...as long as I'm assisting them and not a random freeloader.

With the above player challenges, I understand why DE is more focused on making Railjack easier first then. If the percentage of "average" level players meet a threshold where there are a lot less "taxis" needed, then they can push to the next level. 

On a side note: I agree regarding the attack speed rate of heavy weapons, but, because they are the heavy hitters, I think only a small base attack speed increase is needed with a compensation of added stagger and base strength buffs. I actually like how they handled the heavies. It moves, feels and behaves like every other AAA title heavy weapon and has a really nice risk/reward element to them. Adding a touch more speed of 10%, to match the strength of a warframe, would work wonders. Another option would be to give the heavy Warframes (Rhino, Atlus, Frost, Hildryn Vauban) an inherent 10% attack speed bonus with heavy weapons, similar to Excal's swords.

I'm just amazed they didnt progress RJ with the Corpus update, they just did the same thing we already had with new-old mobs and slightly different crewships and missions. Not saying it was bad or that it didnt feel slightly different, it just didnt really go anywhere. And I'm not surprised people feel intimidated, the system has been blown up to be far more complex than it actually is both by DE as a hype and then by content creators pointing out "flaws". Sad part is DE bent to alot of it. RJ was at release a good system when it came to loot, with an actual gameplay loot similar to looter shooters and arpgs, it gave you a reason to go back for better items. After the reactor change there was zero point in going back since you already have a 90% reactor no matter what it really rolls. Then valence just made progression way too fast. With the Corpus release I had all guns I wanted maxed within a few hours and I didnt even chase or focus on getting them.

I just hope DE wont look at hours spent in there then, if they do they'll keep releasing only things to attract new captains since I dont think many of the vets spend more time in there than to get the new shinies. DE should really come up with an idea for RJ that lets us use it to actually progress things that arent RJ specific. It shows that they want to but it is just badly handled. It is fun and all that they add defense etc. but there is zero point doing it in RJ over doing it on the normal map the way it is designed. The only slightly bright part are the fissures since you can actually farm radiants while also having a decent safeguard getting a radiant's worth of traces instead in the "high" proximas.

Yep, heavy melee just needs a nudge. Either more AS or they rework the AS formula for them. I'd prefer a rework so weapons are consistant across the board so people can know what they get when they sit down to use a .80, 1.0 or 1.2 speed weapon. It would also remove several of the clunkyness tied to some of the faster weapons and their stances aswell, like the insane glides you end up with on single dagger and so on.

14 hours ago, CrimsonXX said:

Wow you'd think my reply was some full-on attack thing, when in reality it literally was a matter of stating how things stand with the most. The problem with that is that things aren't always going to follow schedule and they tend to react to whatever whine-fest is happening in community (for lack of a better term). Though if you'd read more of what I said you'd realize that my main issue with the assertion of RJ being "easy".

And? RJ is still relatively early in its content development. Also I honestly don't give any cares about tryhards or whatever one wants to call them. So if that's the crowd you're trying to say should get content put towards, I'm just going to roll my eyes and sigh. Especially considering those types literally rush through everything and min-max it, then go back to whining about not having anything and "being bored".

I'd say that content releases should fit the vision the team has in order to lead into other things down the line, instead of either being split into multiple different branches or chasing illusions (like "endgame" for an easy example). That's how Warframe was always been done and only changed for the negative when the original "content drought" was whined about, then they seemingly shifted to trying to chase "endgame/difficulty".

And why should I care about losing credibility in your eyes again? Last I checked you're just a rando on a forum. As for the usage of tryhard, if it looks and sounds like tryhard then its a tryhard.

The problem with "massive nerfs" is that there's money involved in some cases where people have maxed out their mods, which you can definitely bet they'll raise hell over anything in that vein (and regardless of what you want to believe or not they're words carry more weight cause its lined with green; not a bash against DE just knowing reality of a business). Not to mention how it wouldn't hugely affect the group that'd most need it except they'd go from dealing millions of damage to hundreds of thousands.

As for the monkey bit, I'll just enjoy my coffee instead of being someone with the thin skin of a Jelllyfish

You sounded and still sound hostile, and you still sound very "us versus them". You directly jumped to the conclussion that I implied RJ was easy for everyone, when this bloody thread is about veterans and boredom. How you made that connection I do not know. Especially with what else was mentioned aswell.

And if you read what I actually wrote you'd see pretty clearly that "tryhards" is not the type of players to get content. Like I said pretty plain and clearly, content should take turns, catering to certain parts of the community at a time. "Tryhards" isnt a thing, those you see as that are simply people that have progressed to a certain point out of reach for you currently, people that are at a progress level that the game barely supports atm. The game needs content that supports that progress because eventually newer players that stick to the game will get there. I'm not saying every release should bring content that further supports that, but some releases definently should. Newer or lower players dont need content to support them every content release, because there is already thousands of hours worth of content to fill the lower progress of the game. Pretty much everything except arbitrations, steel path and eidolons caters to the not-yet-very-progressed crowd.

Endgame is also not an illusion, it is already here in different shapes and forms given how the game is designed, it has also been here since early on so no reason not to create more since it is already intended in the design. Pretty much everything new they release that we can gather and use is endgame, since it allows for further progress and use of our account, we get one more tool etc. to use. Difficulty/challenge however is something the game lacks overall. It kinda disappears somewhere in the shadows the moment you start getting your most basic mods leveled. You actually never have to set foot in the "challenging" content before having the gear to beat it easily since all good items are locked behind the most trivial content.

Massive nerfs wouldnt change the value if those items still retain their BiS position under the new system. It would simply be rebalance.

And if you think the thickness of the skin is what makes people point out when you act angry or not you've got a long ways to go. No one is offended here, just amazed someone can sound so hostile over something so trivial as the thing being discussed in a thread with this specific name. And being hostile towards something that was also never implied in the first place. It cant get more salty than when someone starts throwing in and repeating terms such as "Tryhards" in a game discussion just to get some "moral" highground for their opinion.

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On 2021-05-27 at 5:48 PM, NeoBahamut19 said:

You keep making my point, DE is going to go under because not only is there no signs of anything new in the pipeline, but they've made their game SO UNFRIENDLY TO NEW PLAYERS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO COME PLAY.

How hard is that last part to understand? Saying "well go play something else" is literally the dumbest thing you can say about a game you say you care about, you're essentially (quite literally) saying "take your money elsewhere, we don't want more customers here". Thank you for speaking for Digital Extremes, thank you for being the voice for them.

Maximum smoothbrain.

You insult my intelligence and somehow STILL miss my point. Hilarious.

I am trying to get through to you that the game is NOT UNFRIENDLY TO NEW PLAYERS IF YOU ENJOY THIS TYPE OF GAME. I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO.

The game has always been about grinding. Don’t like grinding, don’t play Warframe. Much complicated, very rocket science.

Not every game is made for every person. I don’t like World of Warcraft, but you don’t see me on WoW forums telling them to change their game to fit my tastes, which is literally what you’re doing here.

You’re certainly entitled to your opinions, and your feedback about the grind is not invalid. I was merely trying to offer an alternative line of thinking, but since you’re more interested in insulting me than having an actual discussion, this will be my last reply to you. Cheers.

Edited by (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face
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IME, when reasonable people get bored with something, a hobby, a game, a TV show, they generally have the self respect and personal initiative to find another thing to do...

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10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You sounded and still sound hostile, and you still sound very "us versus them". You directly jumped to the conclussion that I implied RJ was easy for everyone, when this bloody thread is about veterans and boredom. How you made that connection I do not know. Especially with what else was mentioned aswell.

And if you read what I actually wrote you'd see pretty clearly that "tryhards" is not the type of players to get content. Like I said pretty plain and clearly, content should take turns, catering to certain parts of the community at a time. "Tryhards" isnt a thing, those you see as that are simply people that have progressed to a certain point out of reach for you currently, people that are at a progress level that the game barely supports atm. The game needs content that supports that progress because eventually newer players that stick to the game will get there. I'm not saying every release should bring content that further supports that, but some releases definently should. Newer or lower players dont need content to support them every content release, because there is already thousands of hours worth of content to fill the lower progress of the game. Pretty much everything except arbitrations, steel path and eidolons caters to the not-yet-very-progressed crowd.

Endgame is also not an illusion, it is already here in different shapes and forms given how the game is designed, it has also been here since early on so no reason not to create more since it is already intended in the design. Pretty much everything new they release that we can gather and use is endgame, since it allows for further progress and use of our account, we get one more tool etc. to use. Difficulty/challenge however is something the game lacks overall. It kinda disappears somewhere in the shadows the moment you start getting your most basic mods leveled. You actually never have to set foot in the "challenging" content before having the gear to beat it easily since all good items are locked behind the most trivial content.

Massive nerfs wouldnt change the value if those items still retain their BiS position under the new system. It would simply be rebalance.

And if you think the thickness of the skin is what makes people point out when you act angry or not you've got a long ways to go. No one is offended here, just amazed someone can sound so hostile over something so trivial as the thing being discussed in a thread with this specific name. And being hostile towards something that was also never implied in the first place. It cant get more salty than when someone starts throwing in and repeating terms such as "Tryhards" in a game discussion just to get some "moral" highground for their opinion.

For starters, the impression of hostility is your own reading. Unless you start speaking like a true elitist tryhard while I may disagree with you it wouldn't be "hostile", at least not by my standards. Though this forum for better or worse with its restrictions probably sets the bar pretty low for sensitivity, namely going back to the skin of a jellyfish. As for the "us vs them", depends on what the two parties are in question. If its me vs. tryhards, then its accurate and won't ever change as I despise tryhards hold no respect towards and will never align myself to any other view. As for the RJ being easy: [Though RJ is a bit on the "easy" side of things and dont really bring me much replay value as it is now.]. A statement that suggests RJ being easy generally.

Correction: people that want to show off and get a rush from being shoved into the ground by a game literally being put against the player a la Dark Souls/Nioh/etc , then proceed to scoff at anyone not seeking out that as "casuals" that are below them. Ones that burn through content, min-max it, then proceed to whine and complain about it lacking due to THEIR rushing through it; also expecting any company to be able to keep up with that when its done within a week or so. Lich system was aimed towards that crowd, just look at the mechanics involved; RJ in its original form was aimed at them with its higher leveled variant enemies, massive grind (originally), and heavy push towards squad-play; Scarlet Spear was aimed at them considering it was against waves of Sentients including new ones; Disruption to a degree is aimed at them with its mechanic change; Steel Path was aimed at them with its increased challenge/difficulty; even Profit-Taker is aimed at them; etc. All of which were part of a shift towards chasing the difficulty/challenge/endgame illusion for a time; all of which were either dismissed away by the tryhard crowd or trivialized by them then complained that there's nothing to do. They're bored of the game? There's other games to play till new content arrives and that isn't some blasphemous statement like some act towards it. Its simply not being so obsessively focused on one game its unhealthy.

Then it depends on who you ask, because most put "endgame" with the difficulty/challenge definition, which is the illusion that will never become real. Not because the game is bad, but because of how content within a week's time gets min-maxed and trivialized. The people doing so going right back to whining afterwards cause they chose to rush through the content and/or only do certain aspects of it they deem as worthy. I'm so very VERY tired of people with maxed out mods, "nuke" or "god" builds, etc talking about how there's no challenge in WF; for YOU that may be the case. FOR YOU. There's certain mission types that I can get a mission failed (Interception, Disruption, even Defection to some degree) from, not to mention Vallis as a whole in higher tiers of alert. Or if I come face to face with a legion of bombards. You want to see my true hostile side, this is a good way to set it off.

You're either naive or ignorant if you think anyone that's put money into those things getting nerfed are going to care about technicalities of it. The only thing they're likely to see is that the thing they put money towards is getting knocked down without a refund. This isn't a pro-nerf/anti-nerf, just a statement of the reality when thinking of approaching it.

My usage of the term "tryhard" has nothing to do with saltiness/anger or some sense of "moral high ground" (though I do admittedly put tryhards at the bottom of any respect pool, while literally everyone else is better) xD Its a matter of calling them for what they are. Also I guess you've forgotten how the jellyfish bit is also a bit of a cheeky reference to a particular boss's quotes that also happens to fit in here. Though clearly it fits since thin-skin is on full display, which is another trait of tryhards that can't stand to not have people respect their self-perceived status and ideology.

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On 2021-05-29 at 6:20 AM, CrimsonXX said:

I'd say RJ being "easy" is for a select group of people not a general statement, since until the revision I couldn't even step a toe into it. Now with the additions to it its become easier, but still can be challenging. So this basically comes across as the usual case of someone with maxed out mods, etc completely ignoring anyone else's experience in the game and how any changes would affect them. For you an increase is nothing, for a solo'er (refusing to ever party with randos) non-maxed out mods type like myself that could mean being locked out of content unless falling into tryhard status; which I'd refuse to do on principle.

The main issues I see are:

- No one has a clear concept of what they want. Even the concept of "challenge" is a bag of versions (many of which shut anyone not a tryhard out). For me I'd want to see things in the vein of Jackal, where you have to weaken bosses to points and interact with them to open a weak spot. Like taking shots at Sargas Ruk to the point of being able to rush him and interact to pull off his armor, then take shots at the opened weak spot and repeat the process till "hp blocks" (similar to Protea fight) is depleted. I don't need or want enemies or bosses to shove my face into the ground

- Anything that were to be come up with will be trivialized within a week by tryhards, then they'll go right back to whining

- People aren't willing to take hits to their "nuke" or "god" builds via restrictions on abilities or mods (in the vein of Grendel missions)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

I love how everytime you post it's nothing but a thinly veiled complaint about players playing too seriously and disregarding the feelings of the average gamer. 🤣

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22 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You sounded and still sound hostile, and you still sound very "us versus them". You directly jumped to the conclussion that I implied RJ was easy for everyone, when this bloody thread is about veterans and boredom. How you made that connection I do not know. Especially with what else was mentioned aswell.

And if you read what I actually wrote you'd see pretty clearly that "tryhards" is not the type of players to get content. Like I said pretty plain and clearly, content should take turns, catering to certain parts of the community at a time. "Tryhards" isnt a thing, those you see as that are simply people that have progressed to a certain point out of reach for you currently, people that are at a progress level that the game barely supports atm. The game needs content that supports that progress because eventually newer players that stick to the game will get there. I'm not saying every release should bring content that further supports that, but some releases definently should. Newer or lower players dont need content to support them every content release, because there is already thousands of hours worth of content to fill the lower progress of the game. Pretty much everything except arbitrations, steel path and eidolons caters to the not-yet-very-progressed crowd.

Endgame is also not an illusion, it is already here in different shapes and forms given how the game is designed, it has also been here since early on so no reason not to create more since it is already intended in the design. Pretty much everything new they release that we can gather and use is endgame, since it allows for further progress and use of our account, we get one more tool etc. to use. Difficulty/challenge however is something the game lacks overall. It kinda disappears somewhere in the shadows the moment you start getting your most basic mods leveled. You actually never have to set foot in the "challenging" content before having the gear to beat it easily since all good items are locked behind the most trivial content.

Massive nerfs wouldnt change the value if those items still retain their BiS position under the new system. It would simply be rebalance.

And if you think the thickness of the skin is what makes people point out when you act angry or not you've got a long ways to go. No one is offended here, just amazed someone can sound so hostile over something so trivial as the thing being discussed in a thread with this specific name. And being hostile towards something that was also never implied in the first place. It cant get more salty than when someone starts throwing in and repeating terms such as "Tryhards" in a game discussion just to get some "moral" highground for their opinion.

You nailed him to a tee mate, he's still so salty 🤣

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