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Gara Prime: Update 30.3.0


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1 minute ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

I really don't like how the Gara change now puts me on a very uncomfortable position. I like Xaku losing attachments during Vast Untime, I like that I can add things to the frame but when I use that power I still see nothing but the skeleton, but now it feels that I have to object any and all kind of options around this matter because if I agree with a toggle my opinion will be wrongly used as if I'm supporting the removal of that "function" (keeping the attachments).

 

I'm a very big fan of "function affecting visual changes", plus I actually liked the Deluxe Gara Skin without the glass (except the helmet, that looked almost unfinished without the glass, but the body looked nice), but now it feels like we are regressing back to the days where such things didn't exist (around Pre Nova Prime days). I was "shaking hands" with people in favour of a Gara toggle because despite our different tastes, the toggle would please both of us, now I feel forced to be against them rather than "getting along", it just sucks.

Couldn't agree more. I like Gara with no glass while she has her deluxe skin (but not deluxe helmet) on, which is the latest fashionframe I've been sticking to on her. Yet on all other loadouts I stick to tinting the glass black because it's always been kinda troublesome to colour, plus I've had people rightfully complaining they were having a hard time seeing through Mass Vitrify.

Or the most part I sticked to that too because the glass armor tends to clip throughout all attachments/Syandanas. Same thing happens on her deluxe skin to be fair, I just happened to notice a couple attachments picks where the clipping works in her favour and I ended up really liking that. So much so that I'm pretty sure I won't use her prime body and I'll be sticking to this current fashion frame for years to come.

I only got her deluxe skin bundle about a month ago because I truly dislike the helmet and already owned her Zamariu skin. TBH up until I made her Kaleida skin work for me I was on the same boat as you, as in "Keep the glass armor, make it a toggle for those who don't want it". As obnoxious as it is to me to see it clipping everywhere on my other loadouts, I still liked having it because it's the clearest tell I forgot to refresh Splinter Storm whenever that happened.

They really should do a survey on Xaku's attachments IMHO. And in either case they should make it a toggable option too instead of going for the choice that's been talked about the most in the forums. This forced change to Gara's Splinter Storm is just screwing all others who still wanted it but were empathic to other people's opinions and further splitting the community for the pettiest of reasons.

I'm really glad you got my reasoning.

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As of the hotfix before this update there is a message in red that constantly keeps popping up on my screen saying "network not responding", which delays doing certain things such as exiting a menu . Also, i am suddenly unable to see anyone i invite to the dojo and vice versa. This has never happened before the last hotfix....please fix urgently as i am unable to trade anything.

 

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50 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Uh, yeah... It's called "empathy". You know, being able to understand that other people might feel differently than you?

Empathy? Ew.

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59 minutes ago, metvincent said:

Really. The fact that people got their way and it coincidentally looks better to me on a couple of my fashion frame loadouts doesn't mean to me the others who were happy the way it was now have to suck it up.

Why is that a hard concept to grasp? We have a full submenu under our options for toggable skills on each frame for that very reason. Choice.

Offtopic: I agree with you on not ever using Liches as On-Call companions.

Hard for me to grasp because it makes no sense to me to encourage the devs put more work in something as insignificant as this. Getting the change we got is already more than I think any of us have a right to expect.

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One of my favorite things about Gara was that Splinter Storm was legit her broken armor flying round protecting her I found it to be one of the coolest interactions between your appearance and skills in the game, so removing it in favor of her glass armor not doing anything is not only disappointing but saddening that you've gone the route you've gone. Until you do the right thing and make it a toggle, and yes that could mean some difficult coding, you're always going to upset people. I've been so hyped for Gara Prime as she is my main and I love her but hearing this on her launch date has brought down my excitement conciderably, just as much as I imagine the people who got their way with the armor are now excited for it but really it does plain stink that people lose out.

Also side note shame on you for those 'Many, many times' links, two of them are for the same thing and that's they want the Glass on Gara gone completely, not that they want it all the time, and the other two make it clear they want a toggle and not what you've done here. Seriously shame on you for that.

'We hope this change will be appealing to everybody living on the cutting edge of Gara fashion.' - Nope expect me to be very vocal from now on until that toggle appears so I can have my armor interaction back, your excuses be damned. Thanks :D

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So....if I'm reading the stats right then Gara Prime has more armor and more health than the base model...  So we've decided to make your favorite tank tankier....and Xzibit couldn't be reached for comment, or lawsuit, regarding the pimp my ride style logic.

 

 

 

That may sound like a complaint....but it isn't.  This is the reason you'd wait for Gara Prime before plinking down the Umbral Forma to make a frame which looks at Inaros and Valkyr, then states boldly "hold my beer, and watch this."  Hmmm...  I'm not sure whether to be sad about Octavia and Zephyr Prime (not to mention Inaros), or laugh heartily that at this point there's finally a reason to plink those umbral forma into a frame.   Decisions, decisions.....

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34 minutes ago, Hodor_Roe said:

yeah, I just crashed 14 waves in and lost 5 relics. Worst part is DE probably won't be giving relics back

Yep, same happened to my squad right after the update. Lost a nice Axi G6 too  ;(

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Eximus units will now drop from the drop tables twice: Once from the base enemy type table and once from the Eximus table. 

How's that work with Ivara's Prowl, Nekros' Desecrate, and various other loot-o-matic abilities?

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Just now, Leqesai said:

Hard for me to grasp because it makes no sense to me to encourage the devs put more work in something as insignificant as this. Getting the change we got is already more than I think any of us have a right to expect.

I'm actually quite surprised you didn't make the same argument for toggable abilities. "Just hold the button and move on".

And as for "encouraging devs to put more work in something insignificant"... You know what? Let's go with that. Should we encourage DE to work on Pets 2.0? Only we've been doing that for over 3 years at this point (being first hinted at on Devstream #109 on April 2018). Did you bother to read all the other pages on this very thread and the many new bugs they're experiencing right now on top of the older ones who haven't been addressed in months?
 

Spoiler

giphy.gif



See that? There's your argument flying out the window.

Furthermore I'll just name a couple more examples off the top of my head on changes DE made based on community feedback that could be construed the same flawed way:

Chroma's Elemental Ward wheel and recastable Vex Armor.
Ash's Bladestorm Rework.
Khora's Whipclaw LoS and the most recent helmet displacement.
Nikanas sheathing animations.
Mirage clones/Hydroid tentacles/Wisp's Sol Gate/Gara's Mass Vitrify/Limbo's Cataclysm obstructing vision.

All of those examples were fixed and/or had QoL changes thanks to community feedback. Changes you and me are enjoying now thanks to those people who complained at the time. And over half of those were fixable by picking a dark energy colour. Why are you having such a hard time hearing others who don't agree with your take?

Also, going by your own logic, why did you ever mentioned not using Liches on Call? Just stick to Crewmembers, problem solved. They'll always be heaps better for the very same reasons you stated. How dare you ask DE to work harder!

Do you still fail to see how hard you're missing the point? Why is it so hard for you to understand that's it not "my way or the highway" and they could've kept both sides happy? Not to mention the side of the community who still prefered the Glass armor on and got screwed for understanding both sides can be satisfied and pushing for diversity with that toggle.

Seriously, I'm fully expecting a "If you don't like it, don't play it" or a dismissive "TLDR" answer from you at this point. Try nurturing empathy towards your equals within the same community you're a part of. You need loads of it. It'll also get you further IRL too.

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I preferred the glass being shattered in Splinterstorm. The glass on normal Gara looks ugly, and I prefer the cleaner look of having it off. Please make it a toggle.

And then also make it a toggle to not have Xaku's armor be shed when he casts Vast Untime, because in that instance I do want to retain the armor and my fashion and not walk around as a skeleton all the time.

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46 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Hard for me to grasp because it makes no sense to me to encourage the devs put more work in something as insignificant as this. Getting the change we got is already more than I think any of us have a right to expect.

If it were just for Gara, sure. But there are a lot of frames which would benefit from this kind of setting. DE could have:

  1. Done nothing, which would leave some Gara players upset and the others happy.
  2. Changed Gara and given players no choice, which pleases some Gara players but pisses off the others.
  3. Added a toggle to just Gara, which would have made both halves happy but would have involved an iota more work. How terrible! 😱
  4. Approached this as a system and expanded cosmetics options to support alternate ability effects, which would have required some more work 😱 but would have made all Gara players happy and added a bunch of functionality to other frames like Rhino, Nova, Hydroid, Ivara, etc. and given DE a new type of cosmetic to sell.

They had a chance to improve the game in a not-insignificant way, but instead they took the lowest effort way out and traded one group of unhappy players for another.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, metvincent said:

I've read the post specifying that hours before the hotfix was deployed. They should've worked it out regardless instead of taking the easy way out.

Neither you nor me know how Gara is coded. They just introduced a bunch of UI changes, and with it a lot of possible bugs as well. As if we don't have bugs that have been around for years already.

I prefer the current change, Gara's glass armor being kept while having Splinter Storm on. So what's your problem with giving people the option instead of forcing them out of it? If you're going to repeat the "opportunities for bugs" thing, please go back and re-read the paragraph above.

Conceptually I have no issue with it at all. I'm ambivalent to the actual change. I do have an issue with people angrily complaining about it when DE literally explained the exact reason for it in the update post itself.

And as you just said, we have a ton of bugs already and might have very well introduced many more with the recent UI changes, so why would be a good idea to introduce the possibility of even more bugs when they could instead just switch it off entirely.

It's an incredibly minor cosmetic change, and the fact that some people can still feel justified in rudely complaining is my issue. If all the people bringing it up were saying stuff along the lines of "Hey, we get why you didn't do it, but here's a bunch of people who've voted in this poll we made to show that yeah, there are plenty of people who actually want the option."

DE listened to the community and made Splinter Storm not explode her armor, and as soon as the community finds out we've already got people bellyaching about it.

Rock and a hard place, and these people have no idea what coding goes into something like that, but still feel entitled to the exact way they want something and it being a priority.



Don't take this as me white-knighting for DE, because there's definitely stuff they've done before that I didn't like.
But if you're going to offer criticism about something, it generally makes the message more likely to succeed if the criticism isn't built on ignorance or anger -- unless it's something incredibly egregious, which this isn't.

Edited by cittran
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3 hours ago, FSK41 said:

.

With the recent two Credit Weekends players have seen a trend, namely the Profit Taker meta. I already gave detailed feedback on that one ( https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1257386-index-credit-farming/?tab=comments#comment-12104972 ) The problem here is that old but definitely fun and engaging content is lost simply because it cannot compare to newer content ( like it always happens after some time i.e. Mining getting replaced by Thumpers , Arbitation Kuva farming with Steel Path/Essence farming etc. ) This is a sad trend and I think we should give old content a new reason to coexist and compare with new content. I gave options and ideas as to how fix Index in comparison to Profit Taker to make Index a fair second option again. Lets move on to the next sad trend in the recent years, the new prime weapons. Anyone remembers the cherished gimmicks of new primes back in the day´? Pyrana prime with its ,,action'' mode, Ballistica prime creating specters or ? DE stopped making primes special for some tragic reason and nowadays Primes are often simply a reskinned normal version with slightly better stats (that are often not even enough to bring them on par with a Riven modded normal version which leads to the fact that people do not even use the prime version). Where is the love DE used to put into primes ? I can understand that thinking of a gimmick for each prime weapon gets tedious and exhausting but not a single one in ages is quite depressing. (I do not count fire modi as special). It would not even be that hard in some cases, for example pandero prime could have a reload gimmick that allows you to reload 50% faster if you hit all bullets with ur secondary mode effectively rewarding aim with DPS increase. The next point would be the controversely discussed Void Storms, nobody does them after they acquired the new Weapon/Frame....why? Simply because their supposed reward is a Prime Part(Relic) but it takes 5x as long to open one there in comparison to a Capture/Sabotage/Exterminate etc. mission. If you want players to not abandon void storms and thus your new content you must adjust it accordingly, Options would be obvious and simple. Either Remove the objectives and let players rampage in space for their Relic (different missions could still be possible for example having a large pool of enemy fighters lets say 200 that is aquivalent to Ext or a pimped Crewship with shields and vents you need to take down first -> Capture or a 3 asteroids you need to shoot with the artillery -> sabotage etc. ). Or let players open multiple relics for their time investment. Last but not least Steel Essence farming. It went from efficiency based (someone who killed 1000 eximus enemies per hour got more than someone who killed 100) to completely time based. This drastic change still left a bad taste in the mound of many players but it is understandable due to how people ,,abused'' certain things. Changing the new system again is unrealistic but why not tweak it a little bit? Currently players farm only Survival to gain Steel Essence (which is basically the same as the old meta) isnt that sad as a developer? to have so many missions but players only choose that single one? Now how we can fix that without returning to the old problem? Simply change the Acolyte Spawn for NON Endurance missions such as Capture or Exterminate missions. Each time you ,,unlock'' extraction the Acolyte will spawn, so for example in a exterminate after roughly 2 minutes. This is obviously superior to Endurance missions many people will think but it is not,it gives people option to get Acolytes fast but Steel Essence is only ONE drop per mission which means you can no longer stack SE and wait for kavat buffs to pick up multiple drops. This solely gives players with little time a good option to farm SE quicker without having to sit in survival for hours. It also adds variety to the Steel Essence farm,something some players desperately seek. 

edited cause typo? your comment was "." ! (I only kid, your feedback is interesting)

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2 hours ago, Erasculio said:

(And please, don't add raids back to the game.)

Might wanna prepare your noooo darth vader soundbit, cause they're coming with the third orb mother. Sorry!

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I know this may be far fetched, but I'd love to suggest the ability to personalize/customize your converted kuva liches or maybe allow players to equip kuva liches as a companion from the companion tab in the arsenal, it might be pretty interesting, letting us get more attached to our grineer friends that we once hated.

 

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1 minute ago, OverlordNuggets said:

I know this may be far fetched, but I'd love to suggest the ability to personalize/customize your converted kuva liches or maybe allow players to equip kuva liches as a companion from the companion tab in the arsenal, it might be pretty interesting, letting us get more attached to our grineer friends that we once hated.

 

THIS. I'd love to see this.

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2 minutes ago, cittran said:

DE listened to the community and made Splinter Storm not explode her armor, and as soon as the community finds out we've already got people bellyaching about it.


Rock and a hard place, and these people have no idea what coding goes into something like that, but still feel entitled to the exact way they want something and it being a priority.
 

 

Except as I stated in my other post earlier their 'listening' amounted to posts that didn't even have relevance to the issue. Plus I as you may have noticed by my low post count, I don't go to the forums often so I didn't see the complaining, all I saw was that something I really liked has been taken off me.

As for the coding, if they can legit just turn it off seemingly at the touch of a button, and have it not effect their coding. Because regardless of them saying 'coding hard it could create problems' they've already technicially altered the code to turn it off, and seriously in situations like this when you have the code right to turn something off, making a toggle ain't that hard.

Having time to think on it, I'm actually guessing its for another reason and its that they didn't want to have to program Gara Prime's armor to break at all, because that's something that has to be worked into the actual skin model as an animation, so it's easier for them to just get rid of it while making it look like it was a 'QoL' for us change when really it was just one for them when making new skins for her going forward. I'll admit what I just said could be complete BS but I'm still looking for actual decent reasons (no coding isn't one of them) why it couldnt be a toggle and make everyone happy.

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