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Option to always host


xZeromusx
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Posted (edited)

I know my internet speed is nearly a gig, and my computer handles hosting the game very well. So, when I queue up and get tossed into a game with a host whose connection or machine is bogging down the play, it's a bit irritating that I can't just simply turn on an option to always create a new instance where I host for other players. Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy playing with other players. But I don't enjoy getting into another player's hosted mission only to have the game become nearly unplayable. Or for a host migration to cause errors.

For instance, just a few minutes ago, I got into a relic capture mission where the host's game was lagging for all players, not just me. We struggled through to the extraction point when suddenly there was a host migration immediately before extraction. When the three of us that were left came back, extraction was broken. None of us could leave and we all had to quit the mission and lose our opened relics.

It would just be nice if those of us that know our machines, know our connections are good, and know that we can create a host mission which won't likely cause issues for other players could turn on an option to always make a new mission where we host for others. I do know there is a way to exploit the leave squad button to force the game to make you host when you requeue (which doesn't always work either), but an option to just always create a new mission in which you host rather than have to trick the match making system would be nice.

Edited by xZeromusx
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Its called solo.

I mean i get you, im in the same place, but it picks the best player connection at the missions start. If you load in your stuck with whoever your loaded with.

I half remember that there might be an option to restrict what connection quality you search for? If there isnt that could be an option.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Its called solo.

You don't get 3 other people who are also opening relics when you run a solo relic mission, thus you don't get any options. And even when I have the ping limit set low, I still seem to sometimes get hosts with dc issues

 

37 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

And what if 4 people have the option on?

Then 4 missions get created for players who are not running with the option on.

Edited by xZeromusx
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18 minutes ago, xZeromusx said:

And even when I have the ping limit set low, I still seem to sometimes get hosts with dc issues

Thats because it samples the ping for a second when its good. To be honest maybe a host / join would be a good idea, as we have it for railjack.

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I'd set a really low ping limit to make sure I always get players with faster connections. When you have that slow host with network problems, it usually means that the host is alway far away and will also have high ping between you and that host. It's best to set a ping limit so your teammates are always closer and connections always more reliable. 

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6 hours ago, xZeromusx said:

I know my internet speed is nearly a gig, and my computer handles hosting the game very well. So, when I queue up and get tossed into a game with a host whose connection or machine is bogging down the play, it's a bit irritating that I can't just simply turn on an option to always create a new instance where I host for other players. Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy playing with other players. But I don't enjoy getting into another player's hosted mission only to have the game become nearly unplayable. Or for a host migration to cause errors.

For instance, just a few minutes ago, I got into a relic capture mission where the host's game was lagging for all players, not just me. We struggled through to the extraction point when suddenly there was a host migration immediately before extraction. When the three of us that were left came back, extraction was broken. None of us could leave and we all had to quit the mission and lose our opened relics.

It would just be nice if those of us that know our machines, know our connections are good, and know that we can create a host mission which won't likely cause issues for other players could turn on an option to always make a new mission where we host for others. I do know there is a way to exploit the leave squad button to force the game to make you host when you requeue (which doesn't always work either), but an option to just always create a new mission in which you host rather than have to trick the match making system would be nice.

Just yes, ive been actually wanting this i just never thought to ask but yes it would be helpful! 

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With a poor internet connection I'd like an option for the opposite.  I hit the "y" button so many times to prevent it from creating a new instance.  I'd rather wait 5 minutes for someone else to host.  I have laptop mode turned on, but it doesn't seem to help much.

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Posted (edited)

Even if I set my ping limit to 100, I still sometime gets matched with players who have good connection, but terrible hardware. Which is why I see some games where the enemies do not move at all due to the fact the host cannot run the AI very well.

Just let me host DE. Payday 2 has this hosting option and that game still retains a very active player base.

Edited by DrivaMain
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4 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

Let's solve all this host migration problem with a good ol' dedicated server. Epic Games own DE now, surely Fornite can spare a few servers for this old game.

Epic Games? What are you smoking?

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-05-26 at 6:35 PM, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Recruit chat is your friend. Invite others. Bam, always host.

Kind of defeats the point of a party finder. The whole reason I made this post was to suggest an improvement to the party finder, and an overall improvement to the game itself. As I mentioned, those of us that know our rigs and know our connection well enough to know we can give other players a great game experience with little risk for lag or dc could then do that for other players. And those players who also know their rigs and know their connection isn't as reliable to handle hosting could avoid causing others grief as well, and even have a better chance of improving their game play by not burdening their systems with the task of hosting others.

Edited by xZeromusx
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Posted (edited)
On 2021-05-27 at 1:35 AM, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

Let's solve all this host migration problem with a good ol' dedicated server. Epic Games own DE now, surely Fornite can spare a few servers for this old game.

The cost of a dedicated server and its maintenance is prohibitive. I'm honestly fine with a hosting system. I simply would prefer one where I can share with others and make the most use of my connection speed and custom rig. While, yes, this is partially a selfish desire to avoid hosts with bad connections and rigs, it also serves to fostering an environment towards improving game play experience for everyone by putting the option to host or not host in our hands rather than only rely on an obviously less than ideal automated system.

Edited by xZeromusx
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Posted (edited)

I kinda want to be host sometimes too.

But not as a permanent toggle, instead, something I can do while clicking a mission node to allow me to be host that time.

There used to be this glitch that if you cancelled joining a mission, clicking it again would vote and therefore make you host, that is kinda impossible to do since the matchmaking improvements that join me lightning fast now.

 

My reasons for needing to be host:
- I have a simaris target and getting placed in a too-long-running mission means my target doesn't spawn, this is quite depressing to have to go out of my way to play solo because it always finds me someone to join and it's always too late to spawn it...
- It's a sabotage that has those 3 caches and I wanna open them, but that means I'll have to backtrack quite significantly if I'm placed in an existing mission, which can be as far as the reactor!
- For defense/ESO/whatever else that might go better with a certain build but I really want to use the support build for the main role, e.g. speedva or trinity or whatever relevant, if I could make myself host I can hit the "wait for players" and triggert a 20s countdown once the first player joins, then there's enough time for everyone to pick their builds before it actually starts. Recruiting chat would be overkill for this sort of thing, and take way too long when I can simply use the matchmaking system with a little time to prepare.
- Railjack, I'd prefer to use my own ship if I can help it, because I've invested in it and makes missions less of a drag, and I also don't mind if someone else wants to pilot, but I do mind when joining a mission and their weapons are absolutely useless :/ Which is why Lavos ftw because I can bypass that with abilities, but still not great especially against corpus crewships that nobody bothers to take down and it's the reason I'm yet to even get Lavan Laith&Vort MK3 xD

 

There might be a few more reasons that escape me right now.

Edited by HunterDigi
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, HunterDigi said:

- Railjack, I'd prefer to use my own ship if I can help it, because I've invested in it and makes missions less of a drag, and I also don't mind if someone else wants to pilot, but I do mind when joining a mission and their weapons are absolutely useless :/ Which is why Lavos ftw because I can bypass that with abilities, but still not great especially against corpus crewships that nobody bothers to take down and it's the reason I'm yet to even get Lavan Laith&Vort MK3 xD

The thing is, Railjack is the only mode that currently has this option, albeit in a sort of round about way. If you start a mission from your railjack in your dojo or a relay, you'll be the host of your Railjack mission. I'm just asking for the option to host to exist for all missions.

If they don't want to do an option, like a toggle in the menu, then a selection option when you queue for a mission to host or join the next available squad would work just as well.

To expand on that, having the option to join an open squad on ANY node of a planet, like we currently have for Railjack, would also be nice.

Edited by xZeromusx
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27 minutes ago, xZeromusx said:

If you start a mission from your railjack in your dojo or a relay, you'll be the host of your Railjack mission.

Wasn't this removed in the corpus proxima(pc)/tempestarii(console) update as I've started a rj mission from my dojo and ended up joining an active crew instead of going in with my rj.

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)Zergmaster999 said:

Wasn't this removed in the corpus proxima(pc)/tempestarii(console) update as I've started a rj mission from my dojo and ended up joining an active crew instead of going in with my rj.

Oh, IDK if it was recently removed. I just know that when I've started missions from my railjack before, it always made me host, which I liked. I have a good railjack with good weapons. If they removed it, then that's sad.

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some updates to the whole MM need to be implemented, but "only as host" seems a bad design.

What would work is a "only as client" - people know they have bad PCs, bad networks, and want to play as client only. This option could be enforced for them - enabled anytime they demontrate poor performance such as low ping or upload speed. Curently, these players occasionally end up as host and its a bad experience. When you mention trhe lag they will even pipe up and say sorry, but its not their fault they got chosen as host for a public mission.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-05-29 at 6:14 AM, gbjbaanb said:

some updates to the whole MM need to be implemented, but "only as host" seems a bad design.

What would work is a "only as client" - people know they have bad PCs, bad networks, and want to play as client only. This option could be enforced for them - enabled anytime they demontrate poor performance such as low ping or upload speed. Curently, these players occasionally end up as host and its a bad experience. When you mention trhe lag they will even pipe up and say sorry, but its not their fault they got chosen as host for a public mission.

I would rather not have something enforced on players. While I understand that some players WILL set themselves to be host, even when they know their rig or connections won't cut it, and thus get other players into their group and cause them to have a bad experience, the block system already in place should remedy that issue. At least with an option, players can choose to play as host, as guest, or even perhaps as either if they simply don't mind either way.

Edited by xZeromusx
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I was a network geek for many years. The concept of using a quick ping to predict network performance is, bluntly, totally broken and will always give random results. 

I'd be willing to pay a monthly premium to run on a DE server that had predictable performance and eliminated host migrations.

Failing that, the migration process needs to be looked at. There should be a "retry or migrate" option for network errors. When I'm playing with clan members and we are in a party and never hear a glitch and there is a migration or even if it glitches for a second, many times the migration means that the mission has failed because we wanted to play together.  I would rather wait five minutes for them to rejoin the mission than migrate.

You shouldn't lose 75 steel essence because it migrated you.  You shouldn't lose 40 levels (combined, necramech and weapons) because your buddy happened to be the mission 1 and his mom told him he had to take the garbage out right then, so he hit the exit.

Look at the original complaint. He wants to always lead missions. Why? Because the whole process is more predictable when you are mission leader, (until there is a game break that requires a migration to fix it).

But I have 10 meg down, one up, and I want to always lead missions, too, because half the time matchmaking puts me with people who are even worse, but, more than that, because host migration needs to be made reliable.

Never complain without offering a solution. Ok, here is my back of the napkin shot. Track players by their historical performance in-game. Our friend with the gig net gets a great score...unless his ISP is selling him last mile gigabit and has no infrastructure so his actual connection quality to other players sucks.

Joe uses his third rate cell system for his ISP and so he gets a bad score, because measured and automatically reported lag says so.

Use a weighted average of the last 20 runs, say, so a bad burst does destroy your rating forever. The weighted average might mean that your most recent score would count way more, the next most recent perhaps half that. 

Tell players their connection score and how they stack up. At mission end report everyone's score in mission statistics.

The score has to be moderated somewhat. In a 4 player mission, it is likely to be easier to pick out the bad apple and assign them the bad score, while in s two-player mission it would be harder to determine who the bad actor is. Perhaps two-player scores could be weighted lower when poor, or perhaps the speed of access to the central database servers could be factored in.

I believe that there would be as much cheering greeting an overhaul and improvement of the matchmaking and migration system as there would be for a major piece of new content. New players might not get it, but old hands would.

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On 2021-05-26 at 9:35 AM, xZeromusx said:

I know my internet speed is nearly a gig, and my computer handles hosting the game very well. So, when I queue up and get tossed into a game with a host whose connection or machine is bogging down the play, it's a bit irritating that I can't just simply turn on an option to always create a new instance where I host for other players. Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy playing with other players. But I don't enjoy getting into another player's hosted mission only to have the game become nearly unplayable. Or for a host migration to cause errors.

For instance, just a few minutes ago, I got into a relic capture mission where the host's game was lagging for all players, not just me. We struggled through to the extraction point when suddenly there was a host migration immediately before extraction. When the three of us that were left came back, extraction was broken. None of us could leave and we all had to quit the mission and lose our opened relics.

It would just be nice if those of us that know our machines, know our connections are good, and know that we can create a host mission which won't likely cause issues for other players could turn on an option to always make a new mission where we host for others. I do know there is a way to exploit the leave squad button to force the game to make you host when you requeue (which doesn't always work either), but an option to just always create a new mission in which you host rather than have to trick the match making system would be nice.

I feel that if the connection remains buggy for a period of time and there’s a better internet in the squad then maybe it should do a host migration right then and there. Maybe an option for the best 2/3, or 3/4 vote to have it do a host migration. That might lead to people returning to their orbiter if it’s that bad but that’s better than spending 10 minutes in a single exterminate dealing with a buggy internet host. Or just create a whole server instead of relying on hosts. Maybe invites allows you to return with those invited. Dauntless does that. 
 

But you gotta love the old, lazy, typical “play solo” response given to every discussion made about the improvements of public games. Like why bother even commenting if that the only typical small minded answer you can think of? If the discussion was “everybody is taking my kills!!! 😭” then yeah the solo response is the only solution cause nobody is entitled to tell others how to play according to their wishes. I played solo for a while cause missions were being rushed and I barely gained anything. Once I understood the game and had better experience, I started playing public and even appreciated the quick assistance they provided. Nobody should be forced to stop because of some slow poke. Imagine that mindset with every game or parts of life. Course it would difficult for the entitled to understand to be on the receiving end of such selfish demands. 

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