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à l’instant, SheikaVoid a dit :

It's telling that people advise joining a clan not for raids or social interaction, but for item blueprints.

Kinda. You don't need a clan to beat the game as you do missions with randoms people. Maybe it was more important before...

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Posted (edited)
il y a 8 minutes, SheikaVoid a dit :

Sure, you shouldn't be a slave to the community, but taking the piss with every release justifies some harmless speculation.

They should give the player what he needs, not what he wants. I think Warframe didn't want to piss off the community and made some bad decisions...
They create things, did bad, so the community was not happy and so they abandonned it (lunaro, pvp, solar rails, raids, open worlds).
And they keep the new parkour systeme that for me is pretty lame as it takes away all the stealth, strategic and teamwork aspect... And making the old level design obselete.
Every warframe feels the same now, before it was so much important. 

Edited by Erwes
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Just now, Erwes said:

They should give the player what he needs, not what he wants. I think Warframe didn't want to piss off the community and made some bad decisions...
They create things, did bad, so the community was not happy and so they abandonned it (lunaro, pvp, solar rails, raids, open worlds).
And they keep the new parkour systeme that for me is pretty lame as it takes away all the stealth, strategic and teamwork aspect...

Given that this is a game, is need not more akin to want?  I play this game for the fun, not what I need.

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6 minutes ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Yes, us millenials have been working hard to destroy everything old people hold dear until we are given our avocado toast. 

Oh no not that. Don't get me wrong. It's just a known fact that Millenials and even more so GenZ have had an upbringing where everything was always there for them and things were easy to get at least in the West. It's even worse for the current generation of little kids.

This influences how you look at things if you take everything for granted and think your opinion is the one that matters most. This is not towards an individual of course and not everyone fits into the category I just described. But it's an undeniable trend. It's also a perfect recipe for world war, but maybe that's intended :)

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Posted (edited)
il y a 6 minutes, SheikaVoid a dit :

Given that this is a game, is need not more akin to want?  I play this game for the fun, not what I need.

No it's very different. You might need something you didn't know you wanted. And you might want something that could break the game. Constraint is a necessity, physics are a constraint that you need not that you want...

Edited by Erwes
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15 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Oh no not that. Don't get me wrong. It's just a known fact that Millenials and even more so GenZ have had an upbringing where everything was always there for them and things were easy to get at least in the West. It's even worse for the current generation of little kids.

This influences how you look at things if you take everything for granted and think your opinion is the one that matters most. This is not towards an individual of course and not everyone fits into the category I just described. But it's an undeniable trend. It's also a perfect recipe for world war, but maybe that's intended :)

I'm gonna just agree to disagree and not derail this thread.

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Just now, Erwes said:

No it's very different. You might need something you didn't know you wanted. And you might want something that could break the game. Constraint is a necessity, physics are a constraint that you need not that you want...

Let's not be ridiculous, you know perfectly well what I meant.

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Just now, RazerXPrime said:

Oh no not that. Don't get me wrong. It's just a known fact that Millenials and even more so GenZ have had an upbringing where everything was always there for them and things were easy to get at least in the West. It's even worse for the current generation of little kids.

This influences how you look at things if you take everything for granted and think your opinion is the one that matters most. This is not towards an individual of course and not everyone fits into the category I just described. But it's an undeniable trend. It's also a perfect recipe for world war, but maybe that's intended :)

A somewhat nuclear take in terms of generational differences causing world wars.

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7 minutes ago, SheikaVoid said:

A somewhat nuclear take in terms of generational differences causing world wars.

Wouldn't be the first time, but I wasn't implying that. I was implying a self destructive generation.

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Just now, RazerXPrime said:

Wouldn't be the first time, but I wasn't implying that. I was implying a self destructive generation.

"It's also the perfect recipe for a world war"

#*!% off.

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Just now, RazerXPrime said:

Wouldn't be the first time, but I wasn't implying that. I was implying a self destructive generation.

Even so, a self destructive generation doesn't necessarily arise from the cultural differences in terms of raising children, but more from the fact that these are young people anyway.

It's an interesting topic, but not really a relevant one.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 6 heures, SheikaVoid a dit :

Let's not be ridiculous, you know perfectly well what I meant.

I'm not a native english speaker so I may missed something, but anyway you know what I meant and I think you understand why I stopped playing.

Edited by Erwes
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Just now, Erwes said:

I'm not a native english speaker so I may missed something, but anyway you what I meant and I think you understand why I stopped playing.

Yeah, I understand, it's all good, I don't speak English natively either, come across a bit rude sometimes.

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9 minutes ago, SheikaVoid said:

Even so, a self destructive generation doesn't necessarily arise from the cultural differences in terms of raising children, but more from the fact that these are young people anyway.

It's an interesting topic, but not really a relevant one.

Well, not relevant to the topic at least.

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2 hours ago, SheikaVoid said:

1. Yes, Archwing, the system with continuing modular development and ongoing Railjack implementation.

The point is they're dismantling the gamemode. Archwing as a separate entity isnt going to be taking up dev. Which was the point that the poster was sarcastically trying to point out.

2 hours ago, SheikaVoid said:

3. Constant development reall doesn't mean anything more than numbers tweaking here.

That's a real shallow view of game development. Every time a new gun is added to the conclave, it needs tweaking, testing, tweaking some more. Development on new gamemodes to keep it fresh will be needed, new mods. There's also data collection and management, to see what's being used and how. If a meta emerges is that because of hype or is a weapon over powered because of some unseen combo. New levels would have to be developed to keep things interesting. New Warframes need far more than number tweaks.

Yes, you could tweak numbers and only that. But thats even less than whats happening now.

2 hours ago, SheikaVoid said:

4. I don't want to finish Nightwave tasks, that doesn't mean I can blame DE for locking cosmetics.

Oh im not going to bat for them. I dont play PvP, so i dont get the stuff. Im ok with that. I'd love for it to be otherwise, even if it was for plat, but i can accept it as is. The poster was presenting the issue of cosmetic locking like it was unrelated to PvP being largely unliked.

 

2 hours ago, SheikaVoid said:

Yep, but Warframe players are pretty much loot-motivated.  Even ESO is only played to level gear, not because it's fun.  Conclave is one of the few things in Warframe I do simply for the fun of it.

Which is what i said i think? Warframe is largely loot motivated, and despite conclave having some exclusive things its still avoided. So my point is maybe make it so it is played for fun, not for loot. The idea of Affinity gains is simply so you dont feel like every second spent in conclave is time you could spend in something like ESO. At least you can think 'im having fun, but im also progressing my account. And it doesnt matter if i win, because im not loosing out on loot'.

Conclave is never going to win in a competition against the main game. So the best way is to not compete, but to work as a completely optional experience. The quickest way to make people hate something is to make them feel they Have to do it.

Sure, I play SO to level my warframes. But if i could conclave for an equal amount of affinity? Well, that would be a nice change of pace.

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10 hours ago, SheikaVoid said:

And there will always be players who bemoan any PvP, and are apparently perfectly willing to grind through identical non-competitive content.

I mean, I honestly don't see how PvE content can be "infinitely" rewarding without some competition or story involvement, like old Relays.

I don't want to dismiss your argument( as I think that it has some measure of merit). That said, what you've mentioned was tried and proved to be fairly toxic.

DE appears to be a group fairly steeped in their love for PvP and if it was something that could be integrated without rampant cheating or general toxicity they, no doubt, would do so.

The simple fact that you can reference "old Relays and solar rails" highlights my point...

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

While it's good to listen to the community, doing only what the community wants is bad because it blocks creativity in the end. The creator becomes a follower instead of a creator. People here already act as if they own Warframe (I blame millenials and genz upbringing because they are used to getting what they want)

I never said otherwise, obviously there's a limit. The very first Q&A question after her talk speaks to this:

Quote

Question: You were talking a lot in the beginning about how the players ask for something and so the devs make it so. Sometimes it seems like that might not be good for the game, like maybe the players don't know what's best or maybe there's a vocal minority that isn't really speaking for the larger playerbase. So I was wondering how you tackle those kind of concerns.

Rebecca: Right, so what we try to do is take what the players want and make sure it's actually a scaled want. So a DevStream for us is a really good example, because when we generate questions for it we look to see what the actual most used words are and if we wee a high frequency of the same request we address it on air, and we literally on air say "yes" or "no" sometimes - if we think it's bad for the game we'll say no, sometimes we'll say why, and if we think it's good for the game we sort of build a wishlist of things that are good victories to add to the game for the community. And what's surprising about that is that in regards to players wanting things is they typically do want realistic things. Like there are things that you can of course say "no" to, like "turn Warframe into first person" or do something like that, which we do say "no" to. But generally if a player is at the point in this community to ask for something, they ask it and they typically explain why they want it which allows us to address it more on the nose and in the scheme of Warframe's design and future.

But the idea that DE doesn't or shouldn't listen to their community at all is ridiculous. DE makes Warframe for the players, and if the players' wants aren't being met and they're spending their time and money elsewhere then that's not a good thing.

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

DE appears to be a group fairly steeped in their love for PvP and if it was something that could be integrated without rampant cheating or general toxicity they, no doubt, would do so.

It seems to me that they did...? I've never experienced a cheater in Conclave nor much toxicity; the place is generally pretty chill. There are some players who use cheap tactics to win which can lead to some frustration, especially for newbies, but that's kinda on DE for being so negligent towards the mode in the first place.

Edited by PublikDomain
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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I never said otherwise, obviously there's a limit. The very first Q&A question after her talk speaks to this:

But the idea that DE doesn't or shouldn't listen to their community at all is ridiculous. DE makes Warframe for the players, and if the players' wants aren't being met and they're spending their time and money elsewhere then that's not a good thing.

It seems to me that they did...? I've never experienced a cheater in Conclave nor much toxicity; the place is generally pretty chill. There are some players who use cheap tactics to win which can lead to some frustration, especially for newbies, but that's kinda on DE for being so negligent towards the mode in the first place.

I wasn't saying you were saying something else. We're in agreement. I just emphasized this. I should have made that more clear.

Edited by RazerXPrime
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45 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

It seems to me that they did...? I've never experienced a cheater in Conclave nor much toxicity; the place is generally pretty chill. There are some players who use cheap tactics to win which can lead to some frustration, especially for newbies, but that's kinda on DE for being so negligent towards the mode in the first place.

With respect to you, I don't think you know what the OP is talking about when they reference the "Old Relays and Solar Rails"...

Those aren't Conclave as you know them today. Conclave, as you know it, is a much more structured and normalized environment from the ones referenced.

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15 hours ago, Soy77 said:

Let's pretend that you own an imaginary restaurant, hip cafe, or coffee shop. One day a regular asks "so anything new on the menu?". Would you answer:

A. You already tried everything. You're at the endgame. You can just have your usual, that's basically the best that we can do, it won't get any higher than that.

B. Oh there will be something new! We might not have it right now, but best believe that the best is yet to come! We'll always have something new that you might like even more than your last favorite!

This is most definitely how people in the real world engage with restaurants.  Nobody is looking for food that is reliably tasty, we're all looking to Dark Souls our way through the entire menu, and if we reach the end of the menu, we've beat the restaurant and there's no reason to go back to that place.

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Just now, (PSN)Unstar said:

This is most definitely how people in the real world engage with restaurants.  Nobody is looking for food that is reliably tasty, we're all looking to Dark Souls our way through the entire menu, and if we reach the end of the menu, we've beat the restaurant and there's no reason to go back to that place.

You fool, why should a game be consistently fun and appealing?

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