An enhanced trading experience

[Marvelous_A]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

 

maybe rein in your aggression if you wish to have an actual discussion, and painting everyone that wants some convenience as greedy crybabies isn't really helping your argument.

And you forget trading is not just for sellers, its for buyers as well,

I have bought most of my plat directly from DE, i trade mostly to buy missing prime parts and rare items , and sell the occasional riven if i am running out of space.

I gain entertainment out of the rest of the game , i do not get entertainment through trade chat, it may be worth your time to press Ctrl+V every few seconds, its not worth mine.

Having a single screen to quickly buy what i want at reasonable rates is a fair ask as a consumer in my opinion.

Buyers never have problem with trading if they put even a little effort, unless they want to underpay the seller. Especially when warframe market exists. Auction house is 99% what the sellers want. Like seriously you just send a pm and load in a dojo for a trade. How hard is that? Hardly take a minute or is your schedule is too full to do a trade in a game that if it takes more than 10 seconds it would ruin your grand scheme of life? If you find your time is important for that and want to do passively just leave an offer in market and wait. But apparently waiting is not your thing too you want something and you always want it now don't you?

It's not "our" argument because as a matter of fact DE never express interest on putting AH in game but we still see AH posts every now and then. I believe most go against this idea reply because they are just annoyed of this idea. I do believe it's DE intention of make trading a frustrating thing to do with a flooding trade chat and a primitive trading system and they intentionally keep the most basic players interaction in trading instead of just pushing buttons. Skip the whole trading part if you don't enjoy it and by doing that you forgo its benefit. 95% of the game still works for you. Fair?

At least you are paying for plat so hopefully I won't see you in a rant thread about how difficult it would be to make platinum when AH is finally in the game because sellers would have to compete with every single other player in the globe by that time. Or maybe I will when a workshop gains complete control of a specific item and sells it with a absurd price, that would be another story for another day though, I guess!

[16Bitman]

I've seen auction houses that got added a few years into a games lifespawn and completely destroy the value of items, they're good for buyers, but horrible for sellers.

 

Everything that is fairly low value, but still worth trading, will hit 1p very quick, and then when you list something for 1p, you will wait weeks or even months before the game spits out your single platinum.

Items like Arcane Energize would probably be mostly unaffected, but "poor mans trading" was a very vital step for me to obtain slots early on.

[0_The_F00l]

6 hours ago, Merrcenary said:

where did you saw aggression?

Oh , I guess telling people to keep crying  is very friendly.

27 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Buyers never have problem with trading if they put even a little effort, unless they want to underpay the seller.Especially when warframe market exists . Auction house is 99% what the sellers want. Like seriously you just send a pm and load in a dojo for a trade. How hard is that? Hardly take a minute or is your schedule is too full to do a trade in a game that if it takes more than 10 seconds it would ruin your grand scheme of life? If you find your time is important for that and want to do passively just leave an offer in market and wait. But apparently waiting is not your thing too you want something and you always want it now don't you?

It's not "our" argument because as a matter of fact DE never express interest on putting AH in game but we still see AH posts every now and then. I believe most go against this idea reply because they are just annoyed of this idea. I do believe it's DE intention of make trading a frustrating thing to do with a flooding trade chat and a primitive trading system and they intentionally keep the most basic players interaction in trading instead of just pushing buttons. Skip the whole trading part if you don't enjoy it and by doing that you forgo its benefit. 95% of the game still works for you. Fair?

Sorry mate , will have to disagree with the first part. The very fact that you have said " Especially when warframe market exists " takes the wind out of your argument. Warframe.market is in essence a third party auction house , that uses APIs and tools that DE themselves have provided and allowed to exist.

It's kind of hypocritical if you are using a tool yourself  and also trying really hard for others to not get access to it.

As to your theoretical " ten second trade" it rarely happens with just using trade chat for me, it may be a difference due to region and time zones as my schedule does not allow me to be playing at times when there are a lot more players (and traders) online.

And the "blink and you miss " nature of trade chat does not help, especially when it does not cache trade chat logs during missions , you need to be in lobby for trade chat to even exist and waiting indefintely is a waste of time. 

That is why I DO use warframe.market and suggest it when anyone in squad , region or clan makes some trade related queries or price checks.

As to your second point , I wouldn't put too much trust in DEs conviction or commitments. They have repeatedly shown their lack of consistency in taking a stand and accepting changes if the feedback is persistent enough.

And their "lack of interest " is not a fact , but it's a possibility for sure, maybe they are interested but they are unsure of the consequences and so are avoiding it. Or they do not want to take accountability of monetary transactions is the more likely reason for it in my opinion.

Since the request for AH happens so often do you not think there is an actual demand for such a service ? And if there is a demand can DE not take advantage of it ?l

As to the last point of "skip if you don't like it"  it is such a weak closing statement , yeah mate I do skip trade chat , most of the time whenever I have to buy or sell anything I do make a quick Trade chat post, more as a formality and for benefit of uninformed players, and then i go to warframe.market and make the same offer,  I will get a response with reference from warframe.market much faster than from trade chat.

I am not trying to play merchant simulator stone age edition. If you are happy with it , then good for you mate.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

11 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

I’ve been trying to sell an unrolled Bramma AND Nukor riven for 3 weeks now. My price started at 200p, it’s now done to 100P. I post in trading chat several times a day, and I’ve never had a single response 🤷 

Because you have to analyze and understand the market. Those weapons are still wanted, but also close to being "old news". Many people already have what bramma and nukor rivens they want, and then there's people that have moved on to other weapons etc. 

I sold a bramma for 150 yesterday, just depends on many factors.

[sir_deadlock]

8 hours ago, MqToasty said:

I would probably have no reason to buy plat anymore if I started selling all of my extras in earnest...

Plat has to come from somewhere. Short of DE sponsored giveaways, it's usually somebody's buying it.

 Trades provide a plat and credits drain for the buyer. Something that was hitting players early on is that (due to the donation mentality of being founders) people had more plat than they could justify spending. DE's premium model is all about time gates and RNG.

 By introducing trades, rather than having two users spend hypothetically the same amount of time on a parts grind; one user spends twice as long getting a set for themselves and a set to sell, while DE gets money they otherwise would not have. Win-win.

Economically speaking (outside of getting lucky with coupons) the prime packages are some of the best plat deals that can be found. If a user were to instead buy only as much as they need for a single trade, they'd be paying a higher price per volume. Trades being available encourages users to browse plat purchase options. That is already worth it for DE. A player may not be willing to pay $5 for a single frame, but DE still comes out on top if they choose to buy plat to get multiple frames instead of farming the parts themselves.

Likewise from the social aspect, if a user has access to new content and plays with it, that becomes free advertising to all other users, complete with direct reviews if anybody wants to ask whether they like it. Some users may be more eager to buy direct from the store than deal with other players.

If a user were instead to focus on selling, that's fine too. It means more play time, which fills missions slots for other users and keeps up the general user numbers in the statistics. The more classic drains on plat are also ever present (cosmetics, slots. market purchases, foundry rushes, etc.).

 One of the most common misconceptions is how the word "free" applies to labors in this game. If somebody spends eight hours farming gear; that's not free. They worked and were paid in account progression. If they turn around and sell those parts on the market for plat; that's not free plat. They worked hard to make that happen. I could just as easily say that a person weaving baskets from wild plants is getting free money, because all they did was work.

 So perhaps the market's future QoL features would be so convenient that you personally would no longer would need to buy plat, but somebody would need to buy plat if you were going to get paid with it.

[sir_deadlock]

On 2021-05-28 at 6:34 PM, 16Bitman said:

Everything that is fairly low value, but still worth trading, will hit 1p very quick, and then when you list something for 1p, you will wait weeks or even months before the game spits out your single platinum.

That's just how markets work. Stuff happens and the market responds.

Unless you're asking DE to personally set mandatory trading prices and start controlling the market, there's not much that can be done to change that.

 If DE unvaults items, that's going to drastically act against the scarcity value of any seller trying to make a profit. DE has made it so market trading prices are 100% a player responsibility. Being considerate of what players want to sell and how much they can trade for should never come at the expense of making a better game. Demand will fluctuate regardless of DE's actions. The best way DE can help increase demand is, rather than shifting RNG or putting things in the vault, is by increasing the size of the base audience for sellers to interact with.

 And as far as how listings are bad for sellers; you were less likely to close a sale with somebody who speaks a different language. The auction house made that possible. Maybe it did take longer to sell an item, and maybe it sold for less; the total item sales for the server probably went up, but it got spread out between more users. If your success is solely due to an exclusive and hard to navigate startup trading network, then it was probably a matter of time before that changed.

[--EC--Adrenaline]

While it would make things a lot more simple and faster it will also make it less likely that new players looking for a free to play experience remain and keep playing, for reasons already mentioned in the replies before this one, regarding prices

The system we have works fairly well along with warframe.market, maybe if DE would make something in-game similar or the same as the website sure I'm agree to it, but not an automated system like and auction house.

A lot of people don't want it, myself included, and the game doesn't need it, and it would away even more of the already little interaction between players

[RazerXPrime]

1 minute ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

While it would make things a lot more simple and faster it will also make it less likely that new players looking for a free to play experience remain and keep playing, for reasons already mentioned in the replies before this one, regarding prices

The system we have works fairly well along with warframe.market, maybe if DE would make something in-game similar or the same as the website sure I'm agree to it, but not an automated system like and auction house.

A lot of people don't want it, myself included, and the game doesn't need it, and it would away even more of the already little interaction between players

You don't want it because you're afraid of change, not because it's a bad idea.

And the incredulous nonsense point with "A lot of people don't want it". Ugh really. Did you do a survey among all players? Where's your results? From what I'm readingh here I'm sure it's just a loud minority that want to sell stuff overpriced.

[--EC--Adrenaline]

2 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

You don't want it because you're afraid of change, not because it's a bad idea.

As much as this game needs some changes, this wouldn't be a good one.

 

Also please be respectful and don't pretend you know me or anyone else you've already told they're "afraid"

[RazerXPrime]

3 minutes ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

As much as this game needs some changes, this wouldn't be a good one.

your opinion.

[--EC--Adrenaline]

Just now, RazerXPrime said:

your opinion.

Same as yours buddy

[RazerXPrime]

3 minutes ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

Same as yours buddy

Except that I don't throw in unbased figures and don't state mine as fact. You're saying "a lot of people don't want it" without proof. You're saying "it wouldn't be good" as fact.

So no. Not as mine. Not as mine at all. "Buddy".

[nerfinator6]

Just waiting for Letter13 to show up

[TheGuyver]

11 minutes ago, nerfinator6 said:

Just waiting for Letter13 to show up

Same, all these auction house posts end up the same way because people think companies are dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot financially lol

[RazerXPrime]

50 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

Same, all these auction house posts end up the same way because people think companies are dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot financially lol

That must be why so many successful free to play games have an auction house.

[--EC--Adrenaline]

59 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Except that I don't throw in unbased figures and don't state mine as fact. You're saying "a lot of people don't want it" without proof. You're saying "it wouldn't be good" as fact.

So no. Not as mine. Not as mine at all. "Buddy".

me saying it wouldn't be good was a statement, based on my opinion, as you said, interpretation is up to you

me saying a lot of people don't want it is based on general opinion, just go read previously posted AH topics here on the forums

do you always get this toxic when someone disagrees with you bud?

[RazerXPrime]

1 minute ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

me saying it wouldn't be good was a statement, based on my opinion, as you said, interpretation is up to you

me saying a lot of people don't want it is based on general opinion, just go read previously posted AH topics here on the forums

do you always get this toxic when someone disagrees with you bud?

Me pointing out you're making things up is toxic? Interesting take. Moving on.

[TheGuyver]

36 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

That must be why so many successful free to play games have an auction house.

Didn't we have this discussion on the last auction house thread? I can't remember how many times I've one in circles over this, no sarcasm intended here. 

The only one that comes to mind is the gems to gold/gold to gems exchange in guild wars 2. The last time I played that, the prices fluctuated wildly due to the player base and botting. They also had to heavily monitor and separate the european and chinese server economies due a wide number of financial incompatibilities. 

Most games don't allow direct trading of their premium currency like warframe does. WoW gold isn't really a premium currency, seeing as you can farm raw gold while eating your sunday dinner. You can call that pseudo-premium at best. The diablo 3 auction house was abandoned. Runescape is the same as wow with being able to farm gold for membership.

Please list five successful free to play games with a premium currency that you buy with real money that have an auction house. 

[TheGuyver]

double post lol
 

[ReaverKane]

On 2021-05-28 at 4:13 AM, Xarsis01 said:

If it ain't broke don't fix it! Sure it sucks waiting but the system is fine as it is.

It IS broken... Dafuq you're talking about...
Shall i introduce you to the hundreds of negative plat and trade ban posts in this forum alone? All of these would be negated by a mediated trading system (aka An auction house).

1 hour ago, TheGuyver said:

Didn't we have this discussion on the last auction house thread? I can't remember how many times I've one in circles over this, no sarcasm intended here. 

The only one that comes to mind is the gems to gold/gold to gems exchange in guild wars 2. The last time I played that, the prices fluctuated wildly due to the player base and botting. They also had to heavily monitor and separate the european and chinese server economies due a wide number of financial incompatibilities. 

Most games don't allow direct trading of their premium currency like warframe does. WoW gold isn't really a premium currency, seeing as you can farm raw gold while eating your sunday dinner. You can call that pseudo-premium at best. The diablo 3 auction house was abandoned. Runescape is the same as wow with being able to farm gold for membership.

Please list five successful free to play games with a premium currency that you buy with real money that have an auction house. 

Ooh, now you messed up... Since i have 3 times the hours on GW2 than i have in Warframe...
Ok starting from the bottom:
Warframe is the only post 2010 game i know of that DOESN'T have an acution house, and ALL F2P games have premium currencies. So wtf you talking about?
Your clever point is completely disentaglend from reality...

Now, about GW2:
1) Gold to gems does fluctuate, because Its an OPEN MARKET, it fluctuates with supply and demand, and its not THAT wildly, it can vary a bit, but its not that egregious as you put it. Comparable with most other open market comodities.
https://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

2) Botting isn't really a factor on Gold to Gem trades, it does influence availability of other stuff on the market, but usually it comes out favourable to most legitimate players, because it increases availability of goods reducing their price.

3) They don't "heavily" monitor anything. Arena Net has a big hard-on for market oversight (one of their founders is an economist iirc) so they tend to monitor markets more closely, but of all of those markets, the gem market is actually the one they mess with the least (unless you count shady marketing practices and FOMO  on premium goods driving gem prices up as manipulating it).

4) All GW2 servers are separate by region, exactly on the same terms as Warframe's. Nothing to do with Gems.

5) Yes, most games use premium currency for premium exchanges and other currencies for other exchanges, but there's several games with a currency Auction, not least of which GW2, Black Desert does this indirectly allowing you to sell premium items in the Auction House, instead of currency, Albion also allows you to trade Gold (premium) for Silver (regular currency) in-game, and has an Auction House. Maplestory allows you to trade meso (regular currency) for Maple Points (premium). That's just off the top of my mind. ElderScrolls allows you to trade Premium Items from the crown store for gold, but has to be done through mail (COD), because their AH system is almost as bad as Warframe's. And weirdly, the same dumb arguments are made in favour of keeping that status quo, ignoring that other games, like GW2 have had no issue with theirs (if anything the issues that arose there were from Dev interference more than anything else).

6) D3 AH was abandoned not because of the players messing the economy, but because it was a blatant cash grab from the devs.

 

48 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

 

It won't fix that. Negative plat issues are from players that spend plat in trading and then have their payment reversed. Ther accounts are instantly banned, but the platinum spent is also reverted. This means that if you sell a riven mod to a player for 500 plat and they reïmburse the money they spent on the plat then this action kicks in. 

It sucks, but it is the only thing DE can do. All I wonder is how you will get your investment back. I mean contact support right? Get your riven mod back. Or something.

Actually, the AH can prevent this because, its a mediated trade:
- So they can guarantee that the person buying the messed up plat isn't the same guy that cancelled the trade just trying to launder the plat. Because being an AH there's no way you guarantee that you trade with a specific person. So they can "eat the cost" of that failed trade without punishing an innocent player.
- They can also add checks and balances that prevent plat that hasn't "aged" from being used in the AH, true this can also be used on the current system (and there's already a basis for this, since the starting plat can't be traded).
- There's other systems that can be implemented to prevent that.

Best evidence that it works is GW2 and other games with an AH system and premium currency trades where no such thing as negative currency happens.
 

[RazerXPrime]

7 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

Didn't we have this discussion on the last auction house thread? I can't remember how many times I've one in circles over this, no sarcasm intended here. 

The only one that comes to mind is the gems to gold/gold to gems exchange in guild wars 2. The last time I played that, the prices fluctuated wildly due to the player base and botting. They also had to heavily monitor and separate the european and chinese server economies due a wide number of financial incompatibilities. 

Most games don't allow direct trading of their premium currency like warframe does. WoW gold isn't really a premium currency, seeing as you can farm raw gold while eating your sunday dinner. You can call that pseudo-premium at best. The diablo 3 auction house was abandoned. 

Please list five successful free to play games with a premium currency that you buy with real money that have an auction house. 

Well that's an excellent question. EVE online I mentioned before. Guild Wars 2 is one of them. WoW is definitely one of them. The real reason Diablo3's Auction house was removed because they added a feature that made it possible to make real money that was sent to your actual bank account. Mistake I'd say.

Thing is, we already have trading in the game. An auction house is only going to make it easier. It's not going to introduce the trading of premium currency because it already exists.

Like I mentioned before, DE has full control over an auction house if they implement it. If it fails, then they can remove it. They can also simply implement a simple version and build on it. But people seem to be hung up on either fictious information or completely different games that didn't make it with an auction house. All I'm asking is that we give it a shot, in whatever fashion. It doesn't work? Great we remove it. But starting the counter arguments with hollow statements like "it simply cannot work" and "no one wants it" like some people here have been doing I mean... whatever. With that kind of attitude things will never change or improve. Sometimes you need to try something and see that it doesn't work. And maybe, just maybe it will work? Well I'm willing to give that a shot.

[Merrcenary]

1 минуту назад, ReaverKane сказал:

It IS broken... Dafuq you're talking about...
Shall i introduce you to the hundreds of negative plat and trade ban posts in this forum alone? All of these would be negated by a mediated trading system (aka An auction house).

how exactly ah will fix negative plat issue?

[RazerXPrime]

3 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

It IS broken... Dafuq you're talking about...
Shall i introduce you to the hundreds of negative plat and trade ban posts in this forum alone? All of these would be negated by a mediated trading system (aka An auction house).

 

Just now, Merrcenary said:

how exactly ah will fix negative plat issue?

It won't fix that. Negative plat issues are from players that spend plat in trading and then have their payment reversed. Ther accounts are instantly banned, but the platinum spent is also reverted. This means that if you sell a riven mod to a player for 500 plat and they reïmburse the money they spent on the plat then this action kicks in. 

It sucks, but it is the only thing DE can do. All I wonder is how you will get your investment back. I mean contact support right? Get your riven mod back. Or something.

[TheGuyver]

56 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Ooh, now you messed up... Since i have 3 times the hours on GW2 than i have in Warframe...
Ok starting from the bottom:
Warframe is the only post 2010 game i know of that DOESN'T have an acution house, and ALL F2P games have premium currencies. So wtf you talking about?
Your clever point is completely disentaglend from reality...

Now, about GW2:
1) Gold to gems does fluctuate, because Its an OPEN MARKET, it fluctuates with supply and demand, and its not THAT wildly, it can vary a bit, but its not that egregious as you put it. Comparable with most other open market comodities.
https://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

2) Botting isn't really a factor on Gold to Gem trades, it does influence availability of other stuff on the market, but usually it comes out favourable to most legitimate players, because it increases availability of goods reducing their price.

3) They don't "heavily" monitor anything. Arena Net has a big hard-on for market oversight (one of their founders is an economist iirc) so they tend to monitor markets more closely, but of all of those markets, the gem market is actually the one they mess with the least (unless you count shady marketing practices and FOMO  on premium goods driving gem prices up as manipulating it).

4) All GW2 servers are separate by region, exactly on the same terms as Warframe's. Nothing to do with Gems.

5) Yes, most games use premium currency for premium exchanges and other currencies for other exchanges, but there's several games with a currency Auction, not least of which GW2, Black Desert does this indirectly allowing you to sell premium items in the Auction House, instead of currency, Albion also allows you to trade Gold (premium) for Silver (regular currency) in-game, and has an Auction House. Maplestory allows you to trade meso (regular currency) for Maple Points (premium). That's just off the top of my mind. ElderScrolls allows you to trade Premium Items from the crown store for gold, but has to be done through mail (COD), because their AH system is almost as bad as Warframe's. And weirdly, the same dumb arguments are made in favour of keeping that status quo, ignoring that other games, like GW2 have had no issue with theirs (if anything the issues that arose there were from Dev interference more than anything else).

6) D3 AH was abandoned not because of the players messing the economy, but because it was a blatant cash grab from the devs.

 

 

Thank you for breaking this down, I haven't played GW2 since early on in the first expansion. I only had the previous experience from years ago to go off of. 

[ReaverKane]

1 minute ago, TheGuyver said:

Thank you for breaking this down, I haven't played GW2 since early on in the first expansion. I only had the previous experience from years ago to go off of. 

Nothing changed from years ago, except inflation on the cost of the gems (since gold is more common). I remember buying character slots and bag slots for less than 1 gold when the game launched. Nowadays you need hundreds of gold for the same.
But the systems are the same since then.